However, creating a special secret chat channel just for the tanks to bitch about what the rest of the raid is doing is HILARIOUS.
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Running a raiding guild sounds like such a nightmare to me. It's like doing the work of a manager but for no pay, and all of your employees are unburdened by workplace etiquette norms.
Well, they're only unburdened by workplace etiquette norms if the leadership allows it. A guild is only as toxic as its leaders let it be. I've been in raiding guilds where bad behavior is quickly and ruthlessly stamped out, and left guilds where it was allowed to take root.
Of course, the actual raiding is always still herding cats.
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Running a raiding guild sounds like such a nightmare to me. It's like doing the work of a manager but for no pay, and all of your employees are unburdened by workplace etiquette norms.
Which is why they're generally people for whom bossing around others is its own compensation
For my 40 man experience, I joined a guild that had MC on farm and BWL was beaten but not yet trivial. My gear was pretty shit - on the night I did a tryout with the guild I got at least 3 T1 pieces and the T2 bracers because nobody needed them (and that's when I officially joined because they weren't going to give T2 to someone who isn't in the guild) - and it didn't matter because I knew WTF I was doing, I could think and keep myself alive and position myself well. I was pretty much always one of the last dps in the raid to die. Even when I was fire specced I was still beating most of the other ranged dps in MC/BWL
You basically just needed a core of ~20 people to pay attention. As long as we had most of the healers up, a hunter for tranq shot and however many tanks the fight needed we were good
KlatuAussie Aussie AussieOi Oi OiRegistered Userregular
I actually had a really fun time being the raid leader for our guild. We were 2nd on the server for the longest time, occasionally snagging firsts, but mostly just following on the coat tails of the lead guild.
I thoroughly enjoyed trying heard 39 other people in the right direction - up til end of AQ40. I'm all for fun times but there was a strict no nonsense policy while we raided.. I just wish that I was allowed to be a little bit more draconian than I was, but the other officers didn't want me evicting the 4 people that were holding us back from succeeding. No idea why, but I knew which 4 people would always be the first 4 to die, and despite numerous failures at raids due to those 4 morons, they eventually burned me out. Despite burning out and raging about the failures, I still look back on my guilds success positively and the fun times had
Running a raiding guild sounds like such a nightmare to me. It's like doing the work of a manager but for no pay, and all of your employees are unburdened by workplace etiquette norms.
I never did Vanilla raiding, but when Burning Crusade came along a bunch of my friends from the Everquest days were splitting off from their old guild (with the reduction in raid size they basically cut the guild in half, but needed some more people) so I joined them and did an absolute ton of the content in that expansion. I ended up being the second tank for the guild, which made me the primary tank for one of the Karazhan groups. It's actually kind of interesting being the second tank instead of the primary tank, since you have to make sure to build enough threat to be ahead of the DPS but remain behind the main tank. To this day I think I was a better tank than the guild's main tank, but he had a Thunderfury and I didn't so he got the job. I had a lot of fun with that group, though it didn't last all the way through Burning Crusade. Later in Burning Crusade I joined some other friends on a different server as a priest and had a lot of fun with that as well. I was a pretty hardcore holy priest (I was dumb enough to level as holy even) and was with that group through Cataclysm, and I actually got taken along as a tagalong with a friendly guild (me and the guild leader were tagging along) into 25 man Icecrown which was the very first time I did shadow. I had jack all for shadow gear, but they just wanted somebody to fill the spot who wouldn't die needlessly. I had no idea what I was doing, but I got about half a gear set of shadow gear while there, and on the last two bosses I was top 3 on the damage meters. That ended up being a mistake, as I was then asked by my regular guild to play shadow way more often than holy because we had plenty of good healers but were lacking good DPS. I much preferred being a healer on my priest. Still we had some fun times in that guild as well. I haven't touched any of the raiding past Cataclysm, and barely played any of Pandaria at all.
I'm not sure if I would be interested in Classic WoW or not, it would be kind of neat to see the content I never really got to do other than coming in later and plowing through it for the hilarity. My roommate at the time was in a guild that did raids in Vanilla, but I just never really got into that. Even when I started playing with my old Everquest buddies in Burning Crusade I wasn't sure initially if I wanted to raid or not, but I ended up really getting into it. I've spent some time on the Everquest progression servers, which I definitely enjoyed more than I expected (I tried it out because I was bored). Maybe WoW Classic will be a similar experience.
Affliction could be even worse than destro because there were +shadow damage talents, nightfall procs, and imp shadowbolt would cause dots to tick 20% harder too. Also if you went far enough to get dark pact, your mana problems werent as bad so you had more uptime too. Playing vanilla was actually really thematically on point, you were always riding the line of getting yourself killed.
Oh yeah, SM/ruin was the go-to spec if you raided and did pvp. Hard critting instant shadowbolts and dots so you can kite, whats not to love. That you got a hard hitting instant burst was nuts if you were fine with blowing shards.
but the most important question.... will there be Lua mods...
wow classic raiding with default interface = nostalgia turned to masochism
people will absolutely make them
"Tank one target Garr. Tank number two target my target for your Firesworn. Got it? Tank three, target my target for Firesworn, let me know when you're good. Tank four target my target..."
My raiding in BC was great. We joined what was joking called "The most hard-core casual guild on the server" and when the guild leader/main tank found out I actually LIKED tanking he dropped the main tank slot in my lap and respecced arms so fast I'm sure it broke the sound barrier. He was later kicked out of the guild for twenty minutes when he bet guild leadership on whether or not his karazhan groups offtank could jump/climb to the head of the statue in the room before Custodian and lost.
We had a 25 man raid that raided once a week, and four 10 man raids that raided once a week each as well. The 10 mans were color coded because the guild leader though numbering them might make people feel bad, like Team One was better or something, and he didn't want that. So instead there was Red Team, Blue Team, Green Team, and Plaid Team.
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
but the most important question.... will there be Lua mods...
wow classic raiding with default interface = nostalgia turned to masochism
people will absolutely make them
I will make them, if no one else.
My mods are the most important raid mods. The ones that let you post silly links in chat while waiting between pulls. The ones that let you automatically say silly things or run silly emotes while wiping for the thirtieth time.
Before the toy I had a mod set up to /roll 1-6 X3
So we would secretly play Yatzee during raids
Then I remember getting the dice on my rogue and bizarre games of chance popped up
If I remember correctly, they didn't introduce the taint system to addons until TBC, so it should theoretically be possible to make one-button macros as long as they're using a proper Vanilla patch. All of those poker/game addons you're talking about are from later in the game as well, so those won't be available without the effort to port it to the completely different pre-TBC addon system.
Vanilla raids had a lot of space for dead weight. The change from 40 to 25 was basically them saying "dead weight will no longer be tolerated."
My main memories of raiding as a Resto Druid are:
-The melee classes having to figure out who was best geared so they knew who was in charge of debuffing
-Not being allowed to use Moonfire on anything because that'd take a debuff slot that was better used elsewhere
-Having my Rejuvs overwritten by the better geared Resto Druids in the raid
-Having to use Rank 4 Healing Touch
-Getting Gift of the Wild and then immediately losing four bag slots to reagents to allow me to cast it
I'd be really surprised if they didn't use the modern UI code, complete with taint system.
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drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
Weird things I remember from vanilla. Rogues randomly doing more damage with a 1 handed weapon and not taking the dual wield weapon skill. Arcane Explosion forcing Blizzard to put in global cooldowns. Reck bomb. Dartol's Rod of Transformation with a full raid. Enchanting being a huge pain to level. Ironforge being the center of the universe. Using rank 1 Frostbolt to apply the snare on things.
I remember when Lagforge was the place to be until I got sick of the drama in that train wreck of a guild running off to another realm to goof around
Thorium Brotherhood a rp realm. It was amazing and in awe to go to IF and see how empty it was back then
Arcane explosion might have been annoying but wasn't a rotational ability. let me tell you about corruption...
Well, it wasn't an anything ability, really. AOE was frowned upon in vanilla because if you were AOEing, CC(remember that?) was being broken. Single target was king and if you had enough talents to go that far into arcane you were either gimping your fire(lol)/frost spec or you were going all in anyway to meme PoM+Pyro in PvP and took it to spam out stealthed rogues.
Arcane explosion might have been annoying but wasn't a rotational ability. let me tell you about corruption...
Well, it wasn't an anything ability, really. AOE was frowned upon in vanilla because if you were AOEing, CC(remember that?) was being broken. Single target was king and if you had enough talents to go that far into arcane you were either gimping your fire(lol)/frost spec or you were going all in anyway to meme PoM+Pyro in PvP and took it to spam out stealthed rogues.
It secured me spots in ZG and a few others raids as a pug player in vanilla since I was one of like three mages on the server who were "the mage who took instant Arcane Explosion so that we don't have to spend 8 times as long on trash."
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Cata: Most challenging and rewarding dungeons to date; you would run dungeons to get gear even at the very start of raiding as they were significant upgrades from quest rewards.
Firelands: the zone and the fight are some of the most interesting fights wow has done. The hunter guy you had to kite around and manage the dogs, ryolith (even if his leg and turning mechanic was both buggy and random wipe inducing)
The leveling experience got us our first phasing; changing landscape, npcs, and monsters as the story progressed. This introduced some bugs with mining/herbalism nodes being inaccessible, but you have to start somewhere
Phasing was introduced in one of the last few TBC patches, used heavily in WotLK Icecrown and Stormpeaks leveling, and then in most of Cata leveling.
On a vanilla note, i wonder if they will keep the 8 debuff limit that meant in a raid warlocks were only allowed to cast curse of elements/shadows, rogues were not allowed debuff poisons, no spriest dots etc, because you needed to make sure sunder armor would not fall off.
BWL was also typically cleared within a week of going live on any Blizzlike private server, Nostalrius being no exception. To the point where most "blizzlike" private servers implement across the board buffs to every raid instance to stop it being consumed so quickly.
I don't think private servers are any kind of good measure of a vanilla raid experience. In vanilla BWL came out in July and wasn't completed till almost October.
What the raids were like during actual vanilla is completely irrelevant. It won't be like that. What they're like during modern vanilla private server experiences is far more applicable.
I mean some of this is knowledge of the game and addons. I remember not having DBM (or some equivalent, don't remember now) until well into late Naxx. I remember every single boss being "ok, WTF does this guy do?" situation.
I think part of the disjointed memories in this thread about raiding are about when they did it. Did you step into MC in January or June 2005? There was a lot more gear but more importantly mechanic knowledge swirling around the game by June.
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drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
It was basically mandatory for everyone to have CTraid because it synced between people who had it. And i think at some point big wigs was the DBM equivalent that came out around naxx. Most bosses up to that point though were just kill adds, dont stand in fire, deal with fear on tanks, and have everyone with a decurse use it until everyone was clear. The only real obnoxious fight was chromaggus because you had to do screwy things with LoS and use the powder drop item to counter the bronze debuff.
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Of course, the actual raiding is always still herding cats.
Which is why they're generally people for whom bossing around others is its own compensation
You basically just needed a core of ~20 people to pay attention. As long as we had most of the healers up, a hunter for tranq shot and however many tanks the fight needed we were good
I thoroughly enjoyed trying heard 39 other people in the right direction - up til end of AQ40. I'm all for fun times but there was a strict no nonsense policy while we raided.. I just wish that I was allowed to be a little bit more draconian than I was, but the other officers didn't want me evicting the 4 people that were holding us back from succeeding. No idea why, but I knew which 4 people would always be the first 4 to die, and despite numerous failures at raids due to those 4 morons, they eventually burned me out. Despite burning out and raging about the failures, I still look back on my guilds success positively and the fun times had
Also all the godawful parts of a HR gig.
I'm not sure if I would be interested in Classic WoW or not, it would be kind of neat to see the content I never really got to do other than coming in later and plowing through it for the hilarity. My roommate at the time was in a guild that did raids in Vanilla, but I just never really got into that. Even when I started playing with my old Everquest buddies in Burning Crusade I wasn't sure initially if I wanted to raid or not, but I ended up really getting into it. I've spent some time on the Everquest progression servers, which I definitely enjoyed more than I expected (I tried it out because I was bored). Maybe WoW Classic will be a similar experience.
I loved Affliction with Shadowburn!
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
wow classic raiding with default interface = nostalgia turned to masochism
people will absolutely make them
"Tank one target Garr. Tank number two target my target for your Firesworn. Got it? Tank three, target my target for Firesworn, let me know when you're good. Tank four target my target..."
My raiding in BC was great. We joined what was joking called "The most hard-core casual guild on the server" and when the guild leader/main tank found out I actually LIKED tanking he dropped the main tank slot in my lap and respecced arms so fast I'm sure it broke the sound barrier. He was later kicked out of the guild for twenty minutes when he bet guild leadership on whether or not his karazhan groups offtank could jump/climb to the head of the statue in the room before Custodian and lost.
We had a 25 man raid that raided once a week, and four 10 man raids that raided once a week each as well. The 10 mans were color coded because the guild leader though numbering them might make people feel bad, like Team One was better or something, and he didn't want that. So instead there was Red Team, Blue Team, Green Team, and Plaid Team.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
I will make them, if no one else.
My mods are the most important raid mods. The ones that let you post silly links in chat while waiting between pulls. The ones that let you automatically say silly things or run silly emotes while wiping for the thirtieth time.
There was a multiplayer Texas Holdem addon a couple of expansions back that could be played between group/raid members, it was good stuff.
So we would secretly play Yatzee during raids
Then I remember getting the dice on my rogue and bizarre games of chance popped up
Vanilla raids had a lot of space for dead weight. The change from 40 to 25 was basically them saying "dead weight will no longer be tolerated."
My main memories of raiding as a Resto Druid are:
-The melee classes having to figure out who was best geared so they knew who was in charge of debuffing
-Not being allowed to use Moonfire on anything because that'd take a debuff slot that was better used elsewhere
-Having my Rejuvs overwritten by the better geared Resto Druids in the raid
-Having to use Rank 4 Healing Touch
-Getting Gift of the Wild and then immediately losing four bag slots to reagents to allow me to cast it
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
Thorium Brotherhood a rp realm. It was amazing and in awe to go to IF and see how empty it was back then
A fucking cast time.
It's like they deliberately made it bad.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
Well, it wasn't an anything ability, really. AOE was frowned upon in vanilla because if you were AOEing, CC(remember that?) was being broken. Single target was king and if you had enough talents to go that far into arcane you were either gimping your fire(lol)/frost spec or you were going all in anyway to meme PoM+Pyro in PvP and took it to spam out stealthed rogues.
It secured me spots in ZG and a few others raids as a pug player in vanilla since I was one of like three mages on the server who were "the mage who took instant Arcane Explosion so that we don't have to spend 8 times as long on trash."
Phasing was introduced in one of the last few TBC patches, used heavily in WotLK Icecrown and Stormpeaks leveling, and then in most of Cata leveling.
On a vanilla note, i wonder if they will keep the 8 debuff limit that meant in a raid warlocks were only allowed to cast curse of elements/shadows, rogues were not allowed debuff poisons, no spriest dots etc, because you needed to make sure sunder armor would not fall off.
I mean some of this is knowledge of the game and addons. I remember not having DBM (or some equivalent, don't remember now) until well into late Naxx. I remember every single boss being "ok, WTF does this guy do?" situation.
I think part of the disjointed memories in this thread about raiding are about when they did it. Did you step into MC in January or June 2005? There was a lot more gear but more importantly mechanic knowledge swirling around the game by June.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
No, 5 talent points made it instant, some fractions of a second at a time.