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Fire and Fury - Trump/Bannon Love is Over?

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Posts

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 2018
    I'm mulling over whether to give a warning for this because it's pretty much "here's the gorilla channel thing". Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over. It's on topic technically, in that the gorilla channel thing is a fake excerpt from the book, but it's also about a piece of satire, so this would seem to be an invitation to discuss how crazy it is that satire is reality, or how people were fooled by this piece of satire or how funny it is or how people reacted to it and so on.

    That would be off-topic.

    Bogart on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    There are different kinds of bad that rank differently depending on where the person is.

    Pussy tape: Trump is an admitted and unrepentant sex offender who treats human beings like toys.
    Fire and Fury: Trump is a mewling man baby barely capable of operating on an adult level in a literate society.


    If Trump were still just a real estate mogul or media personality, then the pussy tape is the worse of the two by far, because the damage he can cause as a childish halfwit is limited to the number of buildings he owns and can be further controlled by the quality of code enforcement overseeing them.

    However, Trump is the man with guiding hands on the largest economy, military, and bureaucracy in the world, and as bad as the pussy tape is, Fire and Fury's flavor of bad is worse by the immense levels of collateral damage he can cause on every level of existence with his flailing ignorance, because not only is the damage ceiling so much higher as the President of the United States of America than as Some Dude With His Name on a Building, there is almost nothing that can be done to further control him, because *he* is the one who's expected to be controlling these things.

    Hevach on
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    So, what are you saying that if the threat of either/both of finantial meltdown or nuclear anihilation won't get people to want Trump out, nothing will.

  • DirtmuncherDirtmuncher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    So, what are you saying that if the threat of either/both of finantial meltdown or nuclear anihilation won't get people to want Trump out, nothing will.

    But even if 99% of the people in America wanted people out, it's still up to the GOP to kick him out or?

    steam_sig.png
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    So, what are you saying that if the threat of either/both of finantial meltdown or nuclear anihilation won't get people to want Trump out, nothing will.

    Right now people will argue that the economy is shit hot because of his wise stewardship totally ignoring the fact that it is still the same economy it was in 2016 and that only thing that changed is that a bunch of rich dipshits got an underserved tax cut and they feel pretty good about that. The market has been due for a correction since well before Obama left office and the longer it's put off the more severe it will be.

    I had someone at work tell me the other day that because nukes haven't actively started flying that our President is exceeding expectations and should be given some credit. I told him that the President thanks him for burying the bar three feet underground.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    This is a tweet from my local indie bookshop


    Reminder: I live in Dublin, Ireland. I’ve heard that larger chain book stores like Easons have sold out too.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    klemming wrote: »
    So my latest never-happen fantasy is that when Mueller gets to interview Trump, he asks a few polite warm-up questions and then just looks across the table and asks, very gently, if Trump knows he doesn't have to keep being President?
    It's a very very tough job, and lots of people say bad things about you, and expect you to do all kinds of stuff that's no fun, like reading, and... Trump should know that he can just stop, whenever he wants. They can't make him keep being President after it isn't fun anymore.
    All he has to do is sign some papers, talk to a few people, and then he can just go home, back to the life he had before, where everything was just how he liked it. He can watch TV and tweet to his followers and play golf as much as he wants...

    If they could find a way to present it so it doesn't look like he's quitting, he would absolutely do that.
    But he's incapable of admitting he was wrong about anything at all, and saying he doesn't want to do the job would be too much like saying he isn't good at it. Which he isn't, but that admission simply wouldn't get out of his mouth.

    The only way it could work is if he could say "We've funded my wall, we've fucked the poorsaved healthcare, and fucked the poorfixed the tax system, there's nothing left for me to do."

    Do you think, if we added (a useless one-mile section of) the Wall, he'd actually go for it?
    He wouldn't be quitting, he'd be retiring, undefeated, with the thanks of a grateful nation, after accomplishing in just one year what most Presidents take four or more to do...

    (I know, I know. Just let me have this. :( )

    Commander Zoom on
  • CristovalCristoval Registered User regular
    I recommend the audiobook for those who can't get their hands on a physical copy at the moment. It's narrated by Holter Graham who sounds an awful lot like Ron Howard, which gives the whole thing an excellent Arrested Development like flavour.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    See now I want Fire and Fury: The Radio Play

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    This is still not a general Trump thread.

    It's a thread about Fire and Fury, and his feud with Bannon, not a thread in which to talk about what his supporters think he's done for the economy.

  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Back on the topic at hand - the epilogue of the book, taking us up to October of last year, suggests that even at that point Bannon was basically off the Trump train and considering a run at the presidency himself, or at the very least creating another Tea Party-style insurgency within the Republican party to put up primary challengers against establishment GOP candidates. In the wake of Roy Moore's loss, as well as the wave of retirements of Republican officials, this seems to put the party on the cusp of a potentially huge split.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    It could easily be worse. The sexual assaults he committed don't matter to tons of people. Horrible, but true. I've seen the whole bullshit "locker-room talk" shit repeated verbatim up north of the border here. Just a lot of people to whom someone bragging about grabbing an unwilling women the listener doesn't even know by the genitalia is not a big deal.

    But Fire and Fury isn't about how Trump is a horrible person. It's about how he's a joke. This isn't "he's a sexual predator", it's "he's a subliterate moron manbaby". It's a different kind of attack on his reputation and it's much much more effective one (at least imo). Because it bypasses how you feel about a lot of things and goes straight to what most people think is hilarious and stupid.

    shryke on
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    It could easily be worse. The sexual assaults he committed don't matter to tons of people. Horrible, but true. I've seen the whole bullshit "locker-room talk" shit repeated verbatim up north of the border here. Just a lot of people to whom someone bragging about grabbing an unwilling women the listener doesn't even know by the genitalia is not a big deal.

    But Fire and Fury isn't about how Trump is a horrible person. It's about how he's a joke. This isn't "he's a sexual predator", it's "he's a subliterate moron manbaby". It's a different kind of attack on his reputation and it's much much more effective one (at least imo). Because it bypasses how you feel about a lot of things and goes straight to what most people think is hilarious and stupid.

    And you can see it in the way the media has subtly been changing their coverage of the guy. Where before he seemed to routinely get a pass on even the most egregious stuff, after the book came out I'm seeing tons of columns and articles on dude's fitness to be president.

  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    It could easily be worse. The sexual assaults he committed don't matter to tons of people. Horrible, but true. I've seen the whole bullshit "locker-room talk" shit repeated verbatim up north of the border here. Just a lot of people to whom someone bragging about grabbing an unwilling women the listener doesn't even know by the genitalia is not a big deal.

    But Fire and Fury isn't about how Trump is a horrible person. It's about how he's a joke. This isn't "he's a sexual predator", it's "he's a subliterate moron manbaby". It's a different kind of attack on his reputation and it's much much more effective one (at least imo). Because it bypasses how you feel about a lot of things and goes straight to what most people think is hilarious and stupid.

    The unfortunate thing (and something I see a lot in the world of finance) is that a lot of people in positions of authority, with the capacity to make decisions affecting a large number of people, are essentially utilitarians. One might even argue that we train them to be utilitarians. And if I really looked at myself, I'd say I fall into this camp too. One negative consequence of this is that it means these people are, by inclination and training, willing to accept a person in authority who is effective but also a total dick. What *Fire and Fury* suggests is that Trump is not only a total a dick but also lazy and ineffective.



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  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    What’s really exciting me is that other authors are probably looking at the book sales and salivating at the chance to write what a joke the president is. I can imagine future defectors (and ‘fired’ people) will be so self centred and start penning their books.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    What’s really exciting me is that other authors are probably looking at the book sales and salivating at the chance to write what a joke the president is. I can imagine future defectors (and ‘fired’ people) will be so self centred and start penning their books.
    Yup. Even if it's not directed specifically at Trump, I can see claws coming out, and it being an ongoing shitshow.

    And for differing reasons. Priebus and Spicer might want to try to "set the record straight", and regain some credibility. Someone like Omarosa or (even given his limited time) Scaramucci, might want to "burn it down" as a means of trying to flip into a talking head gig.

    Plenty of money to be made, plenty of muck to be raked. And it's diminishing returns. The next person will get mucho bank. But unless the ante gets raised in terms of dirt, it'll become less valuable. So, get to writing, peoples!

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    What’s really exciting me is that other authors are probably looking at the book sales and salivating at the chance to write what a joke the president is. I can imagine future defectors (and ‘fired’ people) will be so self centred and start penning their books.

    Hopefully Bannon doesn't have much option but to sharpen the poison pen and get to work.

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    What’s really exciting me is that other authors are probably looking at the book sales and salivating at the chance to write what a joke the president is. I can imagine future defectors (and ‘fired’ people) will be so self centred and start penning their books.
    Yup. Even if it's not directed specifically at Trump, I can see claws coming out, and it being an ongoing shitshow.

    And for differing reasons. Priebus and Spicer might want to try to "set the record straight", and regain some credibility. Someone like Omarosa or (even given his limited time) Scaramucci, might want to "burn it down" as a means of trying to flip into a talking head gig.

    Plenty of money to be made, plenty of muck to be raked. And it's diminishing returns. The next person will get mucho bank. But unless the ante gets raised in terms of dirt, it'll become less valuable. So, get to writing, peoples!

    I look forward to reading Priebus’ and Spicer’s books, and Scaramucci’s pamphlet.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    What’s really exciting me is that other authors are probably looking at the book sales and salivating at the chance to write what a joke the president is. I can imagine future defectors (and ‘fired’ people) will be so self centred and start penning their books.
    Yup. Even if it's not directed specifically at Trump, I can see claws coming out, and it being an ongoing shitshow.

    And for differing reasons. Priebus and Spicer might want to try to "set the record straight", and regain some credibility. Someone like Omarosa or (even given his limited time) Scaramucci, might want to "burn it down" as a means of trying to flip into a talking head gig.

    Plenty of money to be made, plenty of muck to be raked. And it's diminishing returns. The next person will get mucho bank. But unless the ante gets raised in terms of dirt, it'll become less valuable. So, get to writing, peoples!

    I look forward to reading Priebus’ and Spicer’s books, and Scaramucci’s pamphlet haiku.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    I don't know it will change much.

    Those who already thought Trump was an incompetent manbaby are having their opinions confirmed, but that doesn't affect much.

    Those who think Trump is a dipshit, but don't care because he's rubber stamping republican bills, are currently responding with "big whoop, we already know Trump says unfortunate things sometimes, that doesn't matter because he's signing what we want him to sign."

    Those who think Trump is awesome and brilliant are just saying this book is a bunch of lies from sore loser lying liars.

    Actually, half of the "Trump is an ass but who cares" crowd seem to be going with "this just confirms what we already know AND its a bunch of lies being spread by sore loser Dems."

    If this book has an effect, it'll be to make Trump pissy on Twitter some more.

    Which is fine, because anything that makes Trump pissy makes me happier. My dream is that Trump is still alive at the point when he's finally out of power, nobody has any reason to stroke his ego anymore, and he is openly regarded by every last person in the developed world as the punchline to the world's longest running and least funny joke.

    But beyond that? This book won't do much. It's admittedly fun to point and laugh, though.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    I don't know it will change much.

    Those who already thought Trump was an incompetent manbaby are having their opinions confirmed, but that doesn't affect much.

    Those who think Trump is a dipshit, but don't care because he's rubber stamping republican bills, are currently responding with "big whoop, we already know Trump says unfortunate things sometimes, that doesn't matter because he's signing what we want him to sign."

    Those who think Trump is awesome and brilliant are just saying this book is a bunch of lies from sore loser lying liars.

    Actually, half of the "Trump is an ass but who cares" crowd seem to be going with "this just confirms what we already know AND its a bunch of lies being spread by sore loser Dems."

    If this book has an effect, it'll be to make Trump pissy on Twitter some more.

    Which is fine, because anything that makes Trump pissy makes me happier. My dream is that Trump is still alive at the point when he's finally out of power, nobody has any reason to stroke his ego anymore, and he is openly regarded by every last person in the developed world as the punchline to the world's longest running and least funny joke.

    But beyond that? This book won't do much. It's admittedly fun to point and laugh, though.

    Eh, I would argue that there is a large component of Trump voters who like him because he is viewed as a tough and powerful bully. Undermining him on the 'Everyone around him thinks he's an idiot, even his family, and he has no real power' front can be an effective move against them which hasn't been strongly tried before.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Back on the topic at hand - the epilogue of the book, taking us up to October of last year, suggests that even at that point Bannon was basically off the Trump train and considering a run at the presidency himself, or at the very least creating another Tea Party-style insurgency within the Republican party to put up primary challengers against establishment GOP candidates. In the wake of Roy Moore's loss, as well as the wave of retirements of Republican officials, this seems to put the party on the cusp of a potentially huge split.

    Bannon's hopes of ever achieving such a thing are done now. If Trump loses 2020 I think we will see a flood of new first-hand accounts just like this one from former WH staff, along with GOP establishment throwing him under the bus for handing Dems the presidency, leading to them re-asserting control of the party. I don't know if there will be any support for another outsider populist movement for a while after that.

  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    I think some of the value of the book is simply in taking up news space. Low-information voters generally seem to hate having to pay attention to news about government. This book is yet another period where Trump’s Trumpishness means that American voters have to hear about a deicision they made already and now would like to stop paying attention to for four years.

    I’m not extremely optimistic about it, but I think Trump supporters getting annoyed with Trump because he keeps invading their mental space is more likely than ever turning on him for his policies.

    To that end, the more the news is constantly about Trump mewling and being an especially incompetent child the better off we are.

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    The most important thing is that it's trendy. It's a book that people hear that everyone else is reading, and since it's written by a conservative that means that Republican voters can't just immediately dismiss it.

  • SicariiSicarii The Roose is Loose Registered User regular
    I think some of the value of the book is simply in taking up news space. Low-information voters generally seem to hate having to pay attention to news about government. This book is yet another period where Trump’s Trumpishness means that American voters have to hear about a deicision they made already and now would like to stop paying attention to for four years.

    I’m not extremely optimistic about it, but I think Trump supporters getting annoyed with Trump because he keeps invading their mental space is more likely than ever turning on him for his policies.

    To that end, the more the news is constantly about Trump mewling and being an especially incompetent child the better off we are.

    On the other hand, we have brand loyalty like sunken costs. In being constantly forced to evaluate their decision, the come back harden in the opinion that they made the right choice.

    gotsig.jpg
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I think one of the values is that this book seems to be acting as a relief valve. Even on these boards.

    Something about it coming out and us being able to point at parts and be "see? it really is as bad as we said. And worse" Just something about being able to scream "I told you so!" into the void has helped release some of the pressure, anger, frustration, etc that has built up.

    We're all no longer just screaming into the void of nothingness, there's at least one voice screaming back at us.


    Things are still just as shit as they were, there's still terrible stuff happening that will take years to undo, if it can be undone, but at least now, for this moment, we have a reason to take a step back, relax, and gloat about how right we were.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    tbloxham wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    I don't know it will change much.

    Those who already thought Trump was an incompetent manbaby are having their opinions confirmed, but that doesn't affect much.

    Those who think Trump is a dipshit, but don't care because he's rubber stamping republican bills, are currently responding with "big whoop, we already know Trump says unfortunate things sometimes, that doesn't matter because he's signing what we want him to sign."

    Those who think Trump is awesome and brilliant are just saying this book is a bunch of lies from sore loser lying liars.

    Actually, half of the "Trump is an ass but who cares" crowd seem to be going with "this just confirms what we already know AND its a bunch of lies being spread by sore loser Dems."

    If this book has an effect, it'll be to make Trump pissy on Twitter some more.

    Which is fine, because anything that makes Trump pissy makes me happier. My dream is that Trump is still alive at the point when he's finally out of power, nobody has any reason to stroke his ego anymore, and he is openly regarded by every last person in the developed world as the punchline to the world's longest running and least funny joke.

    But beyond that? This book won't do much. It's admittedly fun to point and laugh, though.

    Eh, I would argue that there is a large component of Trump voters who like him because he is viewed as a tough and powerful bully. Undermining him on the 'Everyone around him thinks he's an idiot, even his family, and he has no real power' front can be an effective move against them which hasn't been strongly tried before.

    I would love to be wrong.

    Like, dear god, can I please please please be wrong.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    I don't know it will change much.

    Those who already thought Trump was an incompetent manbaby are having their opinions confirmed, but that doesn't affect much.

    Those who think Trump is a dipshit, but don't care because he's rubber stamping republican bills, are currently responding with "big whoop, we already know Trump says unfortunate things sometimes, that doesn't matter because he's signing what we want him to sign."

    Those who think Trump is awesome and brilliant are just saying this book is a bunch of lies from sore loser lying liars.

    Actually, half of the "Trump is an ass but who cares" crowd seem to be going with "this just confirms what we already know AND its a bunch of lies being spread by sore loser Dems."

    If this book has an effect, it'll be to make Trump pissy on Twitter some more.

    Which is fine, because anything that makes Trump pissy makes me happier. My dream is that Trump is still alive at the point when he's finally out of power, nobody has any reason to stroke his ego anymore, and he is openly regarded by every last person in the developed world as the punchline to the world's longest running and least funny joke.

    But beyond that? This book won't do much. It's admittedly fun to point and laugh, though.

    I dunno, I feel like if you are spending time explaining that you aren't senile you're losing something. Even if it's just the chance of people currently away coming back with the Spring.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    The book's value is not for people who have already made up their minds, but in the large swaths of America who just couldn't be bothered to vote last time.

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    The book's value is not for people who have already made up their minds, but in the large swaths of America who just couldn't be bothered to vote last time.

    Yes, there is some value to repeating things that we already knew, since lots of people (many of them even the talking heads who repeat this bullshit) weren't actually paying attention when this was already pointed out last January

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    I could see Bannon making a comeback if/when Trump and his family crashes and burn as, “Being correct the whole time.” The Right seems to like to do that for some reason. You don’t hear me hoping Weiner makes a comeback.

    Mild Confusion on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I could see Bannon making a comeback if/when Trump and his family crashes and burn as, “Being correct the whole time.” The Right seems to like to do that for some reason. You don’t hear me hoping Weiner makes a comeback.

    Except nobody likes him. Without Breitbart and the billionaire backers that supported him there, Bannon has no connections. He's got no one who wants him back.

    When you see these disgraced figures return to the right-wing media it's basically always because they have real connections on the backend. They are party loyalists or guys who know a guy and so they get a gig and they creep back in and the base doesn't give a shit.

    Bannon lacks that way back in in the first place. The base doesn't care enough about him to demand he return and the people who could bring him back don't like him.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I think what matters the most here is for the general shittiness and ineptitude of Trump's presidency to become a sort of common wisdom. Not just something that is being explained in depth in articles by the Washington Post etc, but something that is simply widely understood to be true, especially across social meda. Not everybody has to agree on what exactly he did and when, or whether he's literally a criminal, but there just has to be a great enough volume of these anecdotes to override the claims that everything's fine and it's all fake news. With any luck I think the book might have contributed more to that effort than anything else that's happened thus far.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    As to the book, I think there's a real shift in it's focus compared to normal coverage. The public is used to the "both sides" arguments you see all the time and that framing is the biggest reason nothing gets fixed because people just tune out. It's just two sides yelling at each other and nothing gets done and Washington is broken so let's try a new face like Obama or Trump.

    And up to now all the accusations have been like this. Democrat says X but Republican responds Y.

    But the coverage of this book has been different. Because it's just journalisticy enough to match with what we know and seem legitimate to the press and just gossipy enough to be salacious and make the press go hog wild for it. So they are all over it. And it shifts the tone of the coverage. Now it's not "Democrats say X about Trump", it's "Is Trump senile?" or "Can Trump read?". And that helps define these ideas as part of the base understanding of the american political sphere. It's the whole "If you are explaining, you are losing" thing. Trump's incompetence is an assumption by the media in their reporting about him.

    And I think that has a real chance to help erode Trump's soft support. To just make people fed up with him. And that soft support is real. We've seen it fall away already as his poll numbers drop and we've seen it's ability to effect things in races like Alabama, where a lot of Republicans just stayed home.

    Basically I think it's a mistake to think there is no soft support for Trump or the GOP remaining. There are plenty of voters that can be discouraged still. And it's a mistake to discount how this is being covered differently because of how much of a thing it's become and how that can effect general public perception and discourse.

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    I don't know it will change much.

    Those who already thought Trump was an incompetent manbaby are having their opinions confirmed, but that doesn't affect much.

    Those who think Trump is a dipshit, but don't care because he's rubber stamping republican bills, are currently responding with "big whoop, we already know Trump says unfortunate things sometimes, that doesn't matter because he's signing what we want him to sign."

    Those who think Trump is awesome and brilliant are just saying this book is a bunch of lies from sore loser lying liars.

    Actually, half of the "Trump is an ass but who cares" crowd seem to be going with "this just confirms what we already know AND its a bunch of lies being spread by sore loser Dems."

    If this book has an effect, it'll be to make Trump pissy on Twitter some more.

    Which is fine, because anything that makes Trump pissy makes me happier. My dream is that Trump is still alive at the point when he's finally out of power, nobody has any reason to stroke his ego anymore, and he is openly regarded by every last person in the developed world as the punchline to the world's longest running and least funny joke.

    But beyond that? This book won't do much. It's admittedly fun to point and laugh, though.

    The book has brought down Bannon. If that's all it did, that would be enough for me.

    But I'd like to think that Trump's pissiness about the book will lead to more mistakes on Twitter and in front of cameras that Mueller can use. A man can dream.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    The big thing is that it's another thing that Trump will never shut up about. It's the Streisand effect; the more he whines about it, the more people are gonna want to see it.

    I genuinely hope that Trump sues and sends this to court. "President Tries to Ban Book" would be a SALACIOUS headline, and would make sure tons and tons of people who'd otherwise skip this would rush out to grab it before it disappeared off shelves. (Even though there's little chance of that lawsuit working.)

    Undead Scottsman on
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    The big thing is that it's another thing that Trump will never shut up about. It's the Striesand effect; the more he whines about it, the more people are gonna want to see it.

    I genuinely hope that Trump sues and sends this to court. "President Tries to Ban Book" would be a SALACIOUS headline, and would make sure tons and tons of people who'd otherwise skip this would rush out to grab it before it disappeared off shelves. (Even though there's little chance of that lawsuit working.)

    There is zero chance. That's one of the few things federal judges agree on regardless of ideology.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    The big thing is that it's another thing that Trump will never shut up about. It's the Streisand effect; the more he whines about it, the more people are gonna want to see it.

    I genuinely hope that Trump sues and sends this to court. "President Tries to Ban Book" would be a SALACIOUS headline, and would make sure tons and tons of people who'd otherwise skip this would rush out to grab it before it disappeared off shelves. (Even though there's little chance of that lawsuit working.)

    On the other hand, what if he wins?

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    .
    I think one of the values is that this book seems to be acting as a relief valve. Even on these boards.

    Something about it coming out and us being able to point at parts and be "see? it really is as bad as we said. And worse" Just something about being able to scream "I told you so!" into the void has helped release some of the pressure, anger, frustration, etc that has built up.

    We're all no longer just screaming into the void of nothingness, there's at least one voice screaming back at us.


    Things are still just as shit as they were, there's still terrible stuff happening that will take years to undo, if it can be undone, but at least now, for this moment, we have a reason to take a step back, relax, and gloat about how right we were.

    Trust me it is a hollow feeling that fades quickly. Being right, when all it means is that you've correctly predicted a terrible thing is...bittersweet at best, and all it does is make folks that thought thou were wrong before dig in harder and also think you're an ass.
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Imagine me in a comfy armchair, swilling brandy around the glass and thinking it over.

    That's how I imagine you anyway

    Anyway I'm glad this book is hammering Trump's reputation but I do have to wonder to what extent that reputation could be worse. The sexual assault recording happened after all, and it didn't matter.

    I don't know it will change much.

    Those who already thought Trump was an incompetent manbaby are having their opinions confirmed, but that doesn't affect much.

    Those who think Trump is a dipshit, but don't care because he's rubber stamping republican bills, are currently responding with "big whoop, we already know Trump says unfortunate things sometimes, that doesn't matter because he's signing what we want him to sign."

    Those who think Trump is awesome and brilliant are just saying this book is a bunch of lies from sore loser lying liars.

    Actually, half of the "Trump is an ass but who cares" crowd seem to be going with "this just confirms what we already know AND its a bunch of lies being spread by sore loser Dems."

    If this book has an effect, it'll be to make Trump pissy on Twitter some more.

    Which is fine, because anything that makes Trump pissy makes me happier. My dream is that Trump is still alive at the point when he's finally out of power, nobody has any reason to stroke his ego anymore, and he is openly regarded by every last person in the developed world as the punchline to the world's longest running and least funny joke.

    But beyond that? This book won't do much. It's admittedly fun to point and laugh, though.

    Eh, I would argue that there is a large component of Trump voters who like him because he is viewed as a tough and powerful bully. Undermining him on the 'Everyone around him thinks he's an idiot, even his family, and he has no real power' front can be an effective move against them which hasn't been strongly tried before.

    I would love to be wrong.

    Like, dear god, can I please please please be wrong.

    Welcome to my life for the past two years

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