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Fire and Fury - Trump/Bannon Love is Over?

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Mortius is correct Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    McConnell has nothing to lose by fucking Trump over now

    The lifers got their Tax Plan, Ryan's stepping down to try to dodge his ties to the whole Russia thing, Pence is a dolt and may wind up in prison, and Hatch and (probably) Cochran are stepping down.

    Turning on Trump isn't going to make their 2018 hopes worse, but it might save their own jobs, and if something happens to the Admin this year, noted non-fan of Trump Chuck Grassely is on-deck for succession.



    Seriously. McConnell could go around drawing dicks on Trump's face and not be any worse off than he is right now.

    Paul Ryan is stepping down? When did that happen?

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  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    There were rumors of him stepping down in 2018 a few weeks back that he's since denied

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  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    So we're allowed to be happy at these two idiots tearing into each other right? Is there a downside to this at all?

    No one involved should be let off by one side tearing into another. Unless they've testified mightily to Mueller and then... maybe.

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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    I'm very skeptical of a lot of claims in the excerpt (especially so since a lot of it is stuff that I want to be true).

    How would Wolff be able to get what Murdoch was saying after he'd hung up, for instance?

    I totally agree, but it's also hilarious in that this is what you get when you call everything fake news and make no distinction between well sourced news and gossip and heresay. It bites you in the ass. Trump attacked the Bannon quotes as if they were really said, and so now everything is fair game in that book no matter how dubious.

    I'm hoping beyond hope that this "fake news, only believe what I validate bs" is finally going to bite this whole wretched administration in its ass by fracturing the base irrevocably so that no supporter knows who the true Scotsman is

    I have noticed in the press-o-sphere that certain very pro-Trump types (eg Queen Bee of access journalism, Maggie Haberman) have been quick to attack Wolff's credibility while saying that the stories and quotes sure sound enough like things people said and did that they'll have a hard time denying them. Haberman in particular is already spinning this as "Wolff was jealous of my access, so he's making up that he had EVEN MORE access." There sure are a fuckload of direct quotes I've been seeing though, and not a whole lot of denial from the supposed sources. Breitbart/Bannon seem to be treating it as valid instead of adding "alleged" to comments, and that Walsh supposed correction from the last page about calling Trump a barely literate baby still has yet to come.

    Attacking Wolff's credibility isn't a new thing, people have been doing it since the 90s, and he is a kind of true-fiction writer. Here are pieces from 1998 and 2004 I picked up from Splinter news.

    https://splinternews.com/remember-who-michael-wolff-is-1821749209
    Wolff exploits the human tendency to confuse frankness and cruelty with truth-telling. And by repeatedly reminding the reader of what a dishonest, scheming little shit he is, he seeks to inflate his credibility.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/67746/wolff-trapped
    Much to the annoyance of Wolff's critics, the scenes in his columns aren't recreated so much as created--springing from Wolff's imagination rather than from actual knowledge of events. Even Wolff acknowledges that conventional reporting isn't his bag. Rather, he absorbs the atmosphere and gossip swirling around him at cocktail parties, on the street, and especially during those long lunches at Michael's. "He's around town enough to have those insights, to spot people, to come across [pieces of information]," says a friend. He also has a talent for making the most of even the briefest encounters. "His great gift is the appearance of intimate access," says an editor who has worked with Wolff. "He is adroit at making the reader think that he has spent hours and days with his subject, when in fact he may have spent no time at all." More than one chapter of Wolff's 2003 book, Autumn of the Moguls, spotlights anecdotes about random mogul sightings in his neighborhood. In contrast to The New Yorker's Ken Auletta, whose sympathetic portrayals of media moguls have allowed him to enter their inner sanctums, Wolff does not confer with the titans he covers. He channels them.

    I'm sure some of the quotes are real, but it's Wolff, so it's basically "believe it if you want to believe it" territory. Most of it is entirely plausible because the president is Trump, and that it's mostly made up is plausible because the writer is Wolff.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Given Bannon hasn't even bothered to come out and say "Yo, I didn't say that shit!" even as a lie, I'm gonna assume it's true.

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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Given Bannon hasn't even bothered to come out and say "Yo, I didn't say that shit!" even as a lie, I'm gonna assume it's true.

    Yeah the Bannon quotes seem real, especially with the cease and desist being sent out. I'm just not gonna take the rest of the excerpts from the book at face value because the Bannon interview wasn't fabricated.

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Given Bannon hasn't even bothered to come out and say "Yo, I didn't say that shit!" even as a lie, I'm gonna assume it's true.

    Yeah the Bannon quotes seem real, especially with the cease and desist being sent out. I'm just not gonna take the rest of the excerpts from the book at face value because the Bannon interview wasn't fabricated.

    My question is if he would have any need to fabricate this stuff.

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  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    The Breitbart front page, and relevant comment pages, are absolutely fascinating right now, if you can filter out the screeching of chimps flinging poo at each other.

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  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Spaffy wrote: »
    The Breitbart front page, and relevant comment pages, are absolutely fascinating right now, if you can filter out the screeching of chimps flinging poo at each other.

    I do want to look into the abyss, but...

    HerrCron on
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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Also says simply amazing things about the White House security state in this administration.

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  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    Also says simply amazing things about the White House security state in this administration.

    The white house is reportedly claiming wolff was cleared for access 'only' 20 times.

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  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.

    Again, its possible Wolff got real interviews with Bannon and the rest is still untrue.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.

    Axios are pretty reliable.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    For those wondering how he knew what was said at the dinner, he was the host.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.
    In some cases, the officials thought they were talking off the record. But what are they going to do now?
    Those officials are either lying or don't know how off the record works. Talking off the record is something that has to be agreed to. Either you know it was off the record because they agreed to go off the record or it wasn't.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.
    In some cases, the officials thought they were talking off the record. But what are they going to do now?
    Those officials are either lying or don't know how off the record works. Talking off the record is something that has to be agreed to. Either you know it was off the record because they agreed to go off the record or it wasn't.

    Or Wolff is kinda super fucked. Unless there is no paperwork, in which case they are as deeply stupid as they've previously demonstrated

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.
    In some cases, the officials thought they were talking off the record. But what are they going to do now?
    Those officials are either lying or don't know how off the record works. Talking off the record is something that has to be agreed to. Either you know it was off the record because they agreed to go off the record or it wasn't.

    Or Wolff is kinda super fucked. Unless there is no paperwork, in which case they are as deeply stupid as they've previously demonstrated

    Wolff is sorta beyond the point of being fucked by not honoring off the record. That's just convention and he's already got a dodgy reputation as a reporter. It isn't like he will be thrown in reporter (or regular) jail for not honoring it.

    In a earlier time he might have trouble getting published but that's not really a thing nowadays.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.
    In some cases, the officials thought they were talking off the record. But what are they going to do now?
    Those officials are either lying or don't know how off the record works. Talking off the record is something that has to be agreed to. Either you know it was off the record because they agreed to go off the record or it wasn't.

    Or Wolff is kinda super fucked. Unless there is no paperwork, in which case they are as deeply stupid as they've previously demonstrated

    If Wolff lied, I think they would be saying it was off the record but he reneged on the agreement.

    Another brouhahaha, another Trump rages story.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-slams-bannon-when-he-was-fired-he-not-only-lost-his-job-he-lost-his-mind/2018/01/03/21fb158a-f0aa-11e7-b3bf-ab90a706e175_story.html
    The response was a marked departure from mid-October, when Trump called Bannon “a friend of mine” and said he understood his perspective.

    But the much anticipated account of life in Trump’s White House caught the president and his West Wing team off-guard, with the president huddling with White House communications director Hope Hicks, one of his most trusted advisers, and Sanders to craft the fiery statement, after calling friends for much of the morning. Aides thought they had more time to prepare for the book’s formal release.

    Trump spent much of the day raging about the book to top aides, officials and advisers said, and Sanders described the president as “furious” and “disgusted.” As he fumed, some aides were still frantically searching for a copy of the book, and even senior aides such as Hicks had not seen it by the afternoon, officials said.

    “He’s out of control,” one person with knowledge of Trump’s comments said. This person added that the president had been in an upbeat mood for much of Tuesday, continuing to brag about last month’s passage of the Republican tax bill even as he fired off combative tweets.

    Trump also blasted others in the White House for talking to Wolff, who was frequently spotted wandering the West Wing with no escort or ensconced in Bannon’s office, especially during the early months of the administration.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.
    In some cases, the officials thought they were talking off the record. But what are they going to do now?
    Those officials are either lying or don't know how off the record works. Talking off the record is something that has to be agreed to. Either you know it was off the record because they agreed to go off the record or it wasn't.

    Or Wolff is kinda super fucked. Unless there is no paperwork, in which case they are as deeply stupid as they've previously demonstrated

    Wolff is sorta beyond the point of being fucked by not honoring off the record. That's just convention and he's already got a dodgy reputation as a reporter. It isn't like he will be thrown in reporter (or regular) jail for not honoring it.

    In a earlier time he might have trouble getting published but that's not really a thing nowadays.

    I meant superfucked more in the sense of "recording people in the White House without permission will not go well for you", rather than any sort of integrity thing.

    Also, he is going to make so much fucking money from this, and if he has recordings, there is probably also a movie deal.

    I imagine something like The Big Short.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    Cross posted from the Russia thread as it seems pertinent to both: the White House is banning all personal devices from the West Wing.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    I don’t know who Axios are, but they’re saying Wolff taped his interviews with Bannon.

    Which, if true, sort of blows the whole Wolff-is-a-known-liar argument out of the water.
    In some cases, the officials thought they were talking off the record. But what are they going to do now?
    Those officials are either lying or don't know how off the record works. Talking off the record is something that has to be agreed to. Either you know it was off the record because they agreed to go off the record or it wasn't.

    Or Wolff is kinda super fucked. Unless there is no paperwork, in which case they are as deeply stupid as they've previously demonstrated

    Wolff is sorta beyond the point of being fucked by not honoring off the record. That's just convention and he's already got a dodgy reputation as a reporter. It isn't like he will be thrown in reporter (or regular) jail for not honoring it.

    In a earlier time he might have trouble getting published but that's not really a thing nowadays.

    I meant superfucked more in the sense of "recording people in the White House without permission will not go well for you", rather than any sort of integrity thing.

    Also, he is going to make so much fucking money from this, and if he has recordings, there is probably also a movie deal.

    I imagine something like The Big Short.

    Not sure on that first part. DC is a one party consent state for recording and barring national security information I don't think the WH is different legally. Also if random Joe Reporter is hearing national security conversations they're pretty much the last one on the culpable list.

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  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    How very North Korea-esque. Bad week to be scheduled for a White House tour, I guess.

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Nothing says "the best people" like not being able to trust any of them with a cell phone. How the fuck do they have clearance?

    Ticaldfjam
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Nothing says "the best people" like not being able to trust any of them with a cell phone. How the fuck do they have clearance?

    Many of them, like Kushner, don't!

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  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Dems should hammer them on this and their incompetence.

    The GOP sure as hell would if the roles were reversed.

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Trump's lawyers are trying to stop the release of the book.

    I don't recall them having tried to cease-and-desist any other journalism? Some things in this must be really getting to Trump.

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  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Wolff wrote an article back when Trump won:
    Trumps Win Exposes Medias Smug Failures. Its standard the mainstream media was blindsided by their arrogance etc etc think piece.

    The interesting thing is it is seems this is all it takes to get access to these people, say the right words about lamestream media etc and they think you're on their team.

    I'm skeptical about Wolffs credibility but the trump admin getting played by this guy so hard is hilarious.

    Jeedan on
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  • mcpmcp Registered User regular
    Those cease and desists aren't going to intimidate anyone.

    There's no way they want to open themselves up to discovery and everyone knows it.

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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Trump's lawyers are trying to stop the release of the book.

    I don't recall them having tried to cease-and-desist any other journalism? Some things in this must be really getting to Trump.

    This stuff would be deeply humiliating to anybody. I'm surprised he hasn't gone further.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Jeedan wrote: »
    Wolff wrote an article back when Trump won:
    Trumps Win Exposes Medias Smug Failures. Its standard the mainstream media was blindsided etc etc think piece.

    The interesting thing is it is seems this is all it takes to get access to these people, say the right words about lamestream media etc and they think you're on their team.

    I'm skeptical about Wolffs credibility but teh trump admin getting played by this guy so hard is hilarious.

    Wolff is better at making money than Trump.

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    ArbitraryDescriptor was warned for this.
    *off-topic violent content post that was off-topic and inappropriate*

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Given Bannon hasn't even bothered to come out and say "Yo, I didn't say that shit!" even as a lie, I'm gonna assume it's true.

    Yeah the Bannon quotes seem real, especially with the cease and desist being sent out. I'm just not gonna take the rest of the excerpts from the book at face value because the Bannon interview wasn't fabricated.

    Given both bannon and trump's reaction to it makes me think it is probably more true than not but it does need to be taken with many grains of salt.

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    mcp wrote: »
    Those cease and desists aren't going to intimidate anyone.

    There's no way they want to open themselves up to discovery and everyone knows it.

    They also make me almost want to buy and read the book, so good for Wolff too.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    HerrCron wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    The Breitbart front page, and relevant comment pages, are absolutely fascinating right now, if you can filter out the screeching of chimps flinging poo at each other.

    I do want to look into the abyss, but...

    Apparently Donald Trump is a druggie pedophile that secretly loves illegals

    I learned new things today

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    HerrCron wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    The Breitbart front page, and relevant comment pages, are absolutely fascinating right now, if you can filter out the screeching of chimps flinging poo at each other.

    I do want to look into the abyss, but...

    Apparently Donald Trump is a druggie pedophile that secretly loves illegals

    I learned new things today

    We definitely don't need to hear about insane comments on Brietbart in this thread.

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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Nothing says "the best people" like not being able to trust any of them with a cell phone. How the fuck do they have clearance?

    I'm fully expecting someone to catch Sarah Sanders checking her personal phone as she leaves the Press briefing room, as early as Monday.

    SpoitJazz
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Nothing says "the best people" like not being able to trust any of them with a cell phone. How the fuck do they have clearance?

    I'm fully expecting someone to catch Sarah Sanders checking her personal phone as she leaves the Press briefing room, as early as Monday.

    This isn't really on topic.

    This thread is apparently about Bannon and Trump's relationship or lack thereof. Stick to it.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    CBS is CBS



    ...What. It's hard to decipher what he was even TRYING to say. He was also gloating at the same conference about how Bannon changed his tune last night (as soon as Trump called him names).

    Wolff releasing tapes of Bannon tearing into Trump and kin would be pretty hilarious right about now.

    ArcTangent on
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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    "That's just a misnomer"? What? Saying you talk to him is a misnomer? Okay, so do you... yell at him? Talk AT him?

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
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