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Fire and Fury - Trump/Bannon Love is Over?

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Posts

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/breitbart-owners-debate-ousting-bannon-amid-trump-feud-1515100110

    This may well be the end of the line for Bannon. If he loses Breitbart he has no claim to relevance left, unless he ends up being involved in Russia or something which I doubt.

    Article is paywalled.

    CNN version: http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/04/media/bannon-chairman-breitbart/index.html

  • AbsalonAbsalon Registered User regular
    Guys he never spoke to him [Wolff] for book.

    Never for book.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    .
    Tube wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Really, this whole fisasco should effectively end any illusions of trump's credibility; not simply because a man wrote a scathing book about what the situation was like in the white house, but rather that the white house staff assumed that the situation was either normal or that Wolfe was going to be positive about what he was seeing.

    If there are people for whom he still has credibility I don't think this will move the needle

    Maybe, but I dunno. He's come down ~10 points in approval among Republicans since last year (god, how has it not even been a full year?) so this could possibly help either solidify that lower ceiling to his support or cause even more abandonment.

    I'm sure there will be even more interesting bits getting coverage after tomorrow that might do even more. Especially since the only group, outside Republicans, that he's above water with are Evangelical Protestants.

    His approval has been pretty stable over the short to medium term. If I can come up with a narrative to dismiss this within seconds(I can: "It's just lies, liberal propaganda") I don't think it's going to make a big difference. This book is interesting for what it is, but I wouldn't expect it to be a significant turn in the narrative.

    The book just kind of sensationalizes what's already been reported on at exhaustive length; that they're all in it for themselves and they all think Trump is an imbecile.

    As far as his approval goes, the only thing on the horizon that I see really affecting it is DACA, and that's assuming it goes anywhere. This definitely won't. It's nothing new, and too easy/simple to dismiss. Sour grapes from already fired employees. He's already at basically rock bottom for all Dems and independents. He's starting to turn softer Rs into Is, masking a small (but significant) drop there as well. In the past though, his big hits are when he does things that piss off the hard Rs, and that's always been stuff like trying to work with Democrats.

    As a side note though, I expect his approval to actually tick upward slightly because Gallup is one of the biggest in all the aggregate stuff, and they're massively overhauling their methodologies at the moment, and the new ones are going to skew WAAAAY whiter and WAAAY more affluent.

    But that's exactly why it has a good chance of having an effect. This shit is juicy. It's not dry reports in newspapers, it's lurid interviews in a tell-all book. The media is gonna eat this shit up and put on a show doing it. The sensationalization of this whole thing may really help push it further into the general consciousness.

    AstaerethMan in the MistsSpoitElldrenKristmas Kthulhu14357
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    "Sloppy Steve" is pretty much a smear on the road at this point:

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    "Sloppy Steve" is pretty much a smear on the road at this point:

    How long until the guest log with his name in it several dozen times is published?

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    "Watch what happens to him" holy shit

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  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    "Sloppy Steve" is pretty much a smear on the road at this point:

    How long until the guest log with his name in it several dozen times is published?

    Hard to say since they made all WH visitor logs secret early last year.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    Mild ConfusionDoodmannMegaMekCelestialBadgeroverride367Elldren
  • AtomikaAtomika Brought to you by Technicolor™ Registered User regular
    Is “Sloppy Steve” the first shitty nickname given to an actual former Trump staffer?

    Gotta say, it’s fitting and rolls off the tongue

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  • XantomasXantomas totally awesome? Registered User regular
    Given what Scaramucci said about Bannon's talent for self pleasure the nickname is extra hilarious. Trump is such a childish prick.

    ThawmusTicaldfjam14357
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    I don't see the book helping Trump at all. Hard to say if it accelerates Trump falling out of favor with groups that don't follow him like a cult leader or if it'll finally put a wedge between him and a few groups that are hellbent on backing him. The falling out can take three different flavor. They either stay home, which seems like the the more likely one. They go third party, not sure if this is the least likely or not, given the crowds involved tend to hate third parties, even ones they agree with as much as democrats. They vote democratic next election, see fallout scenario three on how likely that one is.

    I guess in less than 10 hours (I'll assume it'll take some time for someone to skim to some damaging details and then report it), will see how this book impacts things. Worth noting that the Republican agenda is dead at this point, they've made it pretty clear they aren't going to stop being shitheels and give enough slack for democrats to be willing to work with them. So this book may or may not move the GOP closer to throwing Trump under the bus.

    BTW even though Bannon is a fucking coward and looks like he is caving. If I was following things right, does it look like this book might be a death knell for Trump's bullshit NDAs? I recall seeing his lawyers filing a cease and desist against it and I think that was the justification they used.

    Also Trump is really petty.

    Never Stop Making PoastLoisLaneElldren
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    People will buy the book like crazy and believe every word because nothing in it will be new or shocking beyond just being more of what Trump has already shown himself to be.

    The book will be damning enough on its own but the rest of this year is going to be people trying to report out and corroborate the gossip inside it,

    It’s going to be months of more drip drip drip of stuff in the book that’s actually true being brought up piecemeal as they are independently confirmed.

    I want to buy a copy and mail it to the White House with a letter asking if the president would sign it and return it.

    Viskod on
    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Atomika wrote: »
    Is “Sloppy Steve” the first shitty nickname given to an actual former Trump staffer?

    Gotta say, it’s fitting and rolls off the tongue

    It also ties into the ideology in some really icky ways, IMO.
    Like, on the surface it's (probably) a poke at his generally disheveled and unkempt appearance and maybe other personal habits. But when you think of the alt-right's obsession with stuff like "beta cuck", well... it could be implying he's not good or manly enough to get the first go at a "fresh" one, but has to settle for "sloppy seconds", the leavings of others. It's all about who eats ****s first, you know. :bigfrown:

    But maybe Trump didn't think of any of this, and just reached for the first thing to pop into his head (or someone else's who said it within his earshot).

    Commander Zoom on
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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    the funniest part about this is how people keep thinking trump won't throw them under the bus as soon as possible. no bannon, you're not immune to it and you're not very smart for thinking so

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    People will buy the book like crazy and believe every word because nothing in it will be new or shocking beyond just being more of what Trump has already shown himself to be.

    The book will be damning enough on its own but the rest of this year is going to be people trying to report out and corroborate the gossip inside it,

    It’s going to be months of more drip drip drip of stuff in the book that’s actually true being brought up piecemeal as they are independently confirmed.

    I want to buy a copy and mail it to the White House with a letter asking if the president would sign it and return it.
    Just make sure to switch this book's sleeve jacket with one from Art of the Deal, and I think you'ld go from a slim chance (because I think there's a non-zero chance that they'd do it unchanged, because they're THAT incompetent), to a modest chance (because of the massive incompetence, I'm not sure anyone would actually read anything inside the cover).

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I don't know how libel laws work in the US; if they do go to court, is the burden on the book's side to prove that what it says is true, or the White House to prove it's not?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Trump would have to prove it was intentional malicious wounding of his image, which is really fucking hard to do if you're a public figure. Gets nigh impossible to do since he is a giant piece of shit.

    Mill on
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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Trump would have to prove it was intentional malicious wounding of his image, which is really fucking hard to do if you're a public figure. Gets nigh impossible to do since he is a giant piece of shit.

    Even then you got the principle of "The Truth is an absolute defense". I.E. if its true, it can't be libel.

    Can you imagine Trump in court trying to prove he is not a sub-literate moron? The court having him read a passage from a high school text and having him do some simple math in his head? And if he fails, the claim stands?

    I can, in fact its one of my daydreams that somebody sits Trump down and forces him to this. Not for me the image of him hung up and being beat like a pinata or the simple slam of a cell door in his orange face(to match his new orange suit), but the dream of exposing him for the dumber-then-a-fourth-grader ass that he is.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Can you imagine Trump in court trying to prove he is not a sub-literate moron? The court having him read a passage from a high school text and having him do some simple math in his head? And if he fails, the claim stands?
    That's what I'm hoping for.

    This is based on UK law, but Have I Got News For You (BBC TV news satire quiz) once got sued by Rupert Allason (A Conservative MP) for suggesting that he could be described as a "conniving little shit".
    When he lost, they pointed out that this made him the only person to be recognised by law as a "conniving little shit".

    If that could happen here, then Trump could be legally recognised as a barely literate uneducated manchild.

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    I thought the cover I'd been seeing in the news was a mockup, but it seems that's the actual cover of the book.

    That is a really ugly cover, like a five minute photoshop job.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    With Bannon being marginalized for his efforts during the campaign, doesn't that make the Campaign Manager Trifecta?

    Both Lewandowski and Manafort were similarly dismissed as not being particularly relevant to the success of the campaign. So the Trump team's premise is that three people were hired to the most important position below the candidate, the most high profile, and probably the most highly paid, and all three were ineffectual and irrelevant.

    He really does hire the best people.

    SleepFencingsaxElldren
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Worth mentioning that this book already has a 2-4 week backorder on Amazon. Whatever their initial shipment was, they blew right through it.

    It is also #1 across all books on amazon.

    I think trump going full ham against this book had the opposite effect that he wanted, funny that.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    I guess I need to read more about the book, but it seems kind of superfluous to me? Like, one of the easiest ways I can think of to make a hojillion dollars is to write a book that basically just says "Oh yeah, Donald Trump is a Big Dumb Idiot, Vol I-VII.

    People are going to rush out and buy a million copies and all giggle about how he's a moron and then it will be over.

  • SeñorAmorSeñorAmor !!! Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I thought the cover I'd been seeing in the news was a mockup, but it seems that's the actual cover of the book.

    That is a really ugly cover, like a five minute photoshop job.

    Book covers, judging and all that. :wink:

    Fencingsaxtimspork's ghostLoisLaneMan in the MistsFlying Couch
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Worth mentioning that this book already has a 2-4 week backorder on Amazon. Whatever their initial shipment was, they blew right through it.

    It is also #1 across all books on amazon.

    I think trump going full ham against this book had the opposite effect that he wanted, funny that.

    The Streisand effect is alive and well.

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    I guess I need to read more about the book, but it seems kind of superfluous to me? Like, one of the easiest ways I can think of to make a hojillion dollars is to write a book that basically just says "Oh yeah, Donald Trump is a Big Dumb Idiot, Vol I-VII.

    People are going to rush out and buy a million copies and all giggle about how he's a moron and then it will be over.

    The only difference here is that Wolff basically did have access to these folks and doesn't seem to give a fuck about just letting everything he heard during his time in the West Wing air out in public.

    The books serves as a vehicle to trash the Non-disparagement and non-disclosure rags Trump has his people sign - if nobody who is recorded / quoted in this suffers any legal issues, then the rest of his staff can feel free to be open about their concerns as well. This book might be a very useful domino.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    cursedking wrote: »
    I guess I need to read more about the book, but it seems kind of superfluous to me? Like, one of the easiest ways I can think of to make a hojillion dollars is to write a book that basically just says "Oh yeah, Donald Trump is a Big Dumb Idiot, Vol I-VII.

    People are going to rush out and buy a million copies and all giggle about how he's a moron and then it will be over.

    There's a difference between saying Trump is dumb and a book that apparently details the ways in which literally everyone around Trump thinks that, the exact words they used, and the excruciating detail by which he proves it, hour upon hour, day upon day, etc. It's the insider story element of the book that's getting buzz.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    While people paying attention to all the leaks over the last year might know most of that stuff if not the specifics, most people don't pay that much attention to such news. That makes a lot of this news to them.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    While people paying attention to all the leaks over the last year might know most of that stuff if not the specifics, most people don't pay that much attention to such news. That makes a lot of this news to them.

    It's also all wrapped up in one text, rather than a paragraph here and there weeks apart.

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  • mcpmcp Registered User regular
    God damn it. I guess I'll read this. Picked it up on Google Play.

    Three paragraphs in and Trump is already eating ice cream.

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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud bear with us as we do some "rebranding" Registered User regular
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-wolff-my-insane-year-inside-trumps-white-house-1071504

    Did this get posted? I'm sorry if it has already. It is by the author of the book. I don't know how much is true but it is highly entertaining and also highlights just how many advisors and members of the cabinet have quit or scandaled or fired within the first year. It is kind of staggering to think about how many people have been hired and let go.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    That Hollywood Reporter article is worth a click just for the opening image.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    I've not yet given up on having competent, intelligent and non-evil government, but if this is the one we're stuck with for now, let it at least be entertaining (in a very dark/schadenfruedy way).

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Wolff is just getting out ahead of the game; if you don't think there won't be hundreds of these types of books from staffers etc once he administration leaves the west wing, you're out of your mind.

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  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    What I find more fascinating than all those juicy quotes is the fact that this book is confirmation that Trump really was only in this for the fame and the opportunity to turn the campaign into Trump TV once he lost.

  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    I think at this point I only wish it had been anyone other than Michael Wolffe who wrote this thing.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    cursedking wrote: »
    I guess I need to read more about the book, but it seems kind of superfluous to me? Like, one of the easiest ways I can think of to make a hojillion dollars is to write a book that basically just says "Oh yeah, Donald Trump is a Big Dumb Idiot, Vol I-VII.

    People are going to rush out and buy a million copies and all giggle about how he's a moron and then it will be over.

    There's a difference between saying Trump is dumb and a book that apparently details the ways in which literally everyone around Trump thinks that, the exact words they used, and the excruciating detail by which he proves it, hour upon hour, day upon day, etc. It's the insider story element of the book that's getting buzz.

    And it's not gonna be over for quite a while as Trump keeps raging against it and the press keeps going through the thing and trying to corroborate anecdotes and dig into it's details. It's a sensational story now and they love that shit.

    RchanenElldren
  • JeedanJeedan Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    What I find more fascinating than all those juicy quotes is the fact that this book is confirmation that Trump really was only in this for the fame and the opportunity to turn the campaign into Trump TV once he lost.

    I’ve already seen memes from the right claiming that it can’t simultaneously be true that he didn’t want to win AND that he colluded with Russia to win.

    Applying Trumps Razor though I think the truth is: he managed to do both because he works on impulse and literally never considered the consequences of either.

    He wanted to win in the same sense that the proverbial dog wants to chase the car. He wanted to Win Bigly and Beat Hillary not actually govern. Meanwhile he’s a useful idiot for any faction within his own party or overseas that thinks they can use him for something.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Trump absolutely wanted to win. That doesn't necessarily means he thought he WAS going to win, no matter how big his ego is.

    There was a reason he was ranting about the election being rigged for months.

    Honestly, it makes more sense that he'd collude with Russia if he thought he was being denied a "rightful" win than it would if he thought he was going to win regardless.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Also the correct answer to that dilemma is that Russia didn't offer him 'victory'. What they said was, "Look, here's a tonne of dirt that can help you really make that uppity Hillary Clinton look bad. You take this, and let us know if we can get you anything else, and when the time is right I'm sure you'll pay us back"

    The payback Trump was imaging was cash, influence and so on. The power that an incredibly wealthy NEARLY victorious candidate who now runs a big media site can bring. The power of someone who never accepted that they lost the Presidency, even though they did. Probably even Russia didn't really want him to win, just get close.

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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Trump absolutely wanted to win. That doesn't necessarily means he thought he WAS going to win, no matter how big his ego is.

    There was a reason he was ranting about the election being rigged for months.

    Honestly, it makes more sense that he'd collude with Russia if he thought he was being denied a "rightful" win than it would if he thought he was going to win regardless.

    I think he talked about it being rigged for months because he didn't think he was going to win, as the book says. And that's the best way for him to stay in the spotlight in perpetuity and simultaneously not have the most important job in the country.

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