credeiki saw LPL started tonight and is on patch 8.11 so some adc builds may be coming out soon.
Ah good!
Although...I have to say, the build I'm doing is working for me--in a way I don't want there to be an official build so that people don't give me shit about my build. 8/0 on my last 8 Sivir games (all with this crit build, even with this additional awkwardness that there's no pickaxe or even longsword in it for a while so if you go b with less than 1300 you buy a bunch of daggers and boots and it feels kinda terrible and you basically just refuse to 2v2 under most circumstances until you do have BF)(this would happen less often if I didn't miss so much free farm, of course) so now I'm in Gold 3, which is my all-time best. I think I can climb more--maybe it's not completely unreasonable to think I could make plat this season?
Honestly I’m fine with non adc’s bot but the issue is that Riot aggressively dumps on supports or ad’s showing up anywhere else.
Lulu, Corki, Graves. Jhin mid was kind of a thing and if mid lane wasn't just 100% wave clear all the time probably would still be (and in matchups where the enemy isn't mega wave clear he probably functions just fine). Which is funny to think about, Janna was way ahead of the curve there. Clear the wave instantly, disappear off map and gank a side lane. How that's considered poor, non interactive gameplay but Aurelion Sol being able to do the same thing isn't is kind of strange.
Supports are a weird one because if they're balanced entirely around reduced income and suddenly they get solo laner gold you can't do anything. Ivern when he was on top of the jungle is a good comparison, he'd just throw out a massive shield every couple of seconds and cool in a twenty second fight I've done zero damage.
I do kind of feel like an assassin meta is going to make a comeback soon. Akali rework is going to be pants on head considering who's in charge (CertainlyT) and enchanter type supports are being nerfed. Dunno if it's across the board stuff or just itemization through Forbidden Idol but that does impact them and their ability to keep someone alive via thousand health shields.
If anything hopefully that means tanks make more of an appearance because right now it's literally 9.5 carries per game.
I love this meta so much, I will be so sad when Riot caves to whiners and rebalances things back to ADCs only in bot.
I'm just going to keep playing adc until I see a compelling reason not to.
If I have to take my Sivir midlane or something because bot becomes a bruiser fiesta so be it. But at this point I'm just going to keep playing adcs bot cause it works well.
If it does seriously become mage-heavy I guess I could play Brand or Zyra as bot carry? I don't know, do people think Zyra works or does she for some reason not have what it takes to make a botlane mage? I've been watching CLG Auto stream a bit and he seems most sold on Brand and Syndra (but I don't have the mechanics for the latter).
Syndra mechanics: if you press Q and then E in the direction of an enemy it stuns them. The expert tier combo is Q+W, E while it's in the air, and Q again during the stun duration. And then you press R.
Congratulations, you've mastered the most difficult combo Syndra has available!
She isn't hard to play and she was never hard to play.
Actual page is here. I...don't think I like it very much. He's certainly much more of a "heavy" than before, but he looks more generic, and the kit feels pretty meh to me except for the W (chains someone in an area and pulls them back after a delay).
Syndra mechanics: if you press Q and then E in the direction of an enemy it stuns them. The expert tier combo is Q+W, E while it's in the air, and Q again during the stun duration. And then you press R.
Congratulations, you've mastered the most difficult combo Syndra has available!
She isn't hard to play and she was never hard to play.
She’s hard for me to play! I am so much worse at her mid than other mages, even though I’ve put in some good amount of practice time ...so I could feel justified buying the cat face orb skin
Syndra mechanics: if you press Q and then E in the direction of an enemy it stuns them. The expert tier combo is Q+W, E while it's in the air, and Q again during the stun duration. And then you press R.
Congratulations, you've mastered the most difficult combo Syndra has available!
She isn't hard to play and she was never hard to play.
She’s hard for me to play! I am so much worse at her mid than other mages, even though I’ve put in some good amount of practice time ...so I could feel justified buying the cat face orb skin
Have you tried pressing R? That alone does pretty solid work.
You could also increase the damage by 33% if you press Q first; planning early and you can increase it 66% by pressing it early and then again when it comes off cooldown and then hitting R.
butts
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
I'm really curious what Riot will do in reaction to this meta. In some ways they seem to like stuff outside the norm, on the other, they nerf supports as soon as they show up anywhere but support. I find it really interesting, and would like to see more bruiser bot lane duo's, but at the same time, don't feel it's a healthy meta if the ADC role isn't represented.
I'm perfectly happy to see a meta develop where pub players not only don't all want to pick ADC characters, but also don't get to complain about how their carry isn't carrying because their team literally doesn't have an ADC.
Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Wow those C9 roster changes
sneaky, Jensen and smoothie all benched
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
I'm really curious what Riot will do in reaction to this meta. In some ways they seem to like stuff outside the norm, on the other, they nerf supports as soon as they show up anywhere but support. I find it really interesting, and would like to see more bruiser bot lane duo's, but at the same time, don't feel it's a healthy meta if the ADC role isn't represented.
Honestly, given the relative proportion of ADCs to the rest of the roster, I think this meta is pretty spot-on. A lot of teams are still running ADCs anyway, and they still scale quite well. I do think Riot should tap back the snowballing just a smidge to give scaling champions a better chance to reach "end-game," but that is probably a more systemic issue. It might be something as simple as making towers stronger or bruiser builds a bit more expensive.
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
You know I'm watching the dive, and I want to see how this meta affects wild turtle. He has what, 3 account at any given time and plays a large pool of champions to a high degree. I wonder if he'll be a break out player while this crazy meta exists.
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
I think it'll have a bigger impact on his opponents tbh. Now they'll have to wait for flash AND sanguine pool to be on cooldown before catching him out of position.
I wonder if the c9 benching has to do with this new meta. I would assume Jensen and sneaky could play these champs that are showing up, but maybe they can't at the level the academy players are.
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Gold Funneling
We'll be nerfing gold funneling strategies in 8.13. Gold Funneling, for anyone unfamiliar with the term, is where you give one champion much of the gold/XP from multiple positions. Taric Mid/Yi jungle with Yi getting really farmed, or Karthus mid/Nunu counter jungling, with Karthus taking most of the allied jungle, being current examples.
The gold funneling we're seeing now results in what's usually a pretty interactive, interesting, and often playmaking lane (mid) becoming very passive, with one laner just doing their best to interact with the other player as little as possible and getting rewarded for that. In cases where the mid laner isn't CSing that problems exacerbated further, since CSing does at least create small windows of vulnerability, earlier in the game especially. While there's likely some counterplay to gold funneling that hasn't emerged yet, we're doubtful it's going to be around as easy to execute as gold funneling itself is or particularly fun/interesting in its own right. We held off on changes to gold funneling initially when it wasn't clear if it was a pretty niche thing that would bring some variety occasionally and be worth a bit of game health cost, or something that would become more dominant and need to be addressed even if it offered strategic variety. Pretty clear at this point it's the later.
In terms of how we'll address it we're still testing exact tactics. Possible changes include returning the overlevelled XP penalty on jungle camps that got removed in 8.10, individual adjustments to champs like Yi (lane minion damage on Q for example), jungle items giving XP penalties for lane minions to offset the increased XP from jungle monsters etc. Should have more details soon
This is a super common thing in 3s right now and it's making me really regret setting a goal of making gold in 3s (something I thought would be pretty easy but I'm still not quite there because it really is a bit of a different game).
It's super unfun to both play with and against and I hope they nerf it into the ground.
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
This is a super common thing in 3s right now and it's making me really regret setting a goal of making gold in 3s (something I thought would be pretty easy but I'm still not quite there because it really is a bit of a different game).
It's super unfun to both play with and against and I hope they nerf it into the ground.
It's actually been the meta for a couple of seasons now, I believe. I do agree it seems fairly toxic in 3s, but I'm not sure what the best solution is.
I feel like Riot just makes tiny changes to minion pathing without saying anything because they tend to just fuck it up something terrible.
The part I enjoy about it is they said they wanted to have it make sense but instead what happens is you'll get stuck in a loop pathing forward and backwards because two minions are next to each other, or you are completely incapable of pathing upwards because a minion happened to be walking alongside you and it's now taking you on a trip down the lane.
Either that or they didn't feel the ghosted effect was strong enough on the champions and items that had it so they had to do something. Namely, make sure minion pathing was something incredibly fucking frustrating.
all players: get your stupid shit out of my botlane
I think I'm just staying out of ranked for awhile. I'm in mid silver so I'm not sure it's affecting it, but I don't want to see karthus bans and also people assume I'm wanting to cheese when I do pick it. I just want to pew pew with Q''s and hut R occasionally
all players: get your stupid shit out of my botlane
This META is kind of horrible to watch from the eulcs standpoint. I worked from home today and ooof those matches were tough to watch. I’m incredibly happy there appears to be a wide open playstyle but it makes for stomps and rough watches.
I love it when two drafts in a row I pick a bot Ziggs and idiot "supports" respond with troll picks. I let the Rengar get away with it and he started DBlade and started taking cs. That went about as well as you'd think.
Second draft, the moron locks in Vayne and I just dodged.
I REALLY LIKE that what LoL calls "gold funnelling" is a thing. In some ways it feels like LoL from time to time discovers new large-scale strategies that look at how to farm more effectively and allocate/protect, or how to create compositions that can press the opponents in new and interesting ways... basically, discovering some of the strategic diversity that DOTA has, and breaking out of the prescribed roles and flow of the game that Riot insists so hard on.
I REALLY LIKE that what LoL calls "gold funnelling" is a thing. In some ways it feels like LoL from time to time discovers new large-scale strategies that look at how to farm more effectively and allocate/protect, or how to create compositions that can press the opponents in new and interesting ways... basically, discovering some of the strategic diversity that DOTA has, and breaking out of the prescribed roles and flow of the game that Riot insists so hard on.
Really you could say that gold funneling is what a Euro lane is, or aka, our standard bottom lane.
However they have specified that they are looking into it because it makes mid a non interactive lane and boring.
all players: get your stupid shit out of my botlane
This META is kind of horrible to watch from the eulcs standpoint. I worked from home today and ooof those matches were tough to watch. I’m incredibly happy there appears to be a wide open playstyle but it makes for stomps and rough watches.
Any matchees in particular to watch? Was either gonna finish up the dive (NA and EU) or some LCK matches while I went to sleep tonight.
all players: get your stupid shit out of my botlane
So how's learning Vlad going?
>:[ >:[ >:[
you're gonna give me an aneurysm
But actually for the past week I've been tired and busy and haven't played any soloQ or adc games, only FlexQ support games cause I know I'm not at my best. So instead I'm just supporting for or against some extremely dumb shit and it's just not actually particularly fun.
Sorry Lux adc, but if you can't hit your skillshots and are doing less well than my op Zyra supp, maybe you support and I get the gold, hm...?
If I have to switch to mage bot I'll play Brand--I mean in general I need to actually get better as Brand because he really is quite strong, but I'm just not accurate enough with W and I don't have a really intuitive sense of his mana costs. I also wouldn't mind playing a Zyra bot--may or may not be 'meta', whatever that is at this point, but I'm good at it (I realized why I have such a low winrate on her this season--it's because I spent my week post-surgery spamming high-ping ranked Zyra games while I was recovering and pretty mentally out of it, and lost a ton but didn't really care. Of the games I've played while on my own PC and sober, I have a good winrate :P )
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Ah good!
Although...I have to say, the build I'm doing is working for me--in a way I don't want there to be an official build so that people don't give me shit about my build. 8/0 on my last 8 Sivir games (all with this crit build, even with this additional awkwardness that there's no pickaxe or even longsword in it for a while so if you go b with less than 1300 you buy a bunch of daggers and boots and it feels kinda terrible and you basically just refuse to 2v2 under most circumstances until you do have BF)(this would happen less often if I didn't miss so much free farm, of course) so now I'm in Gold 3, which is my all-time best. I think I can climb more--maybe it's not completely unreasonable to think I could make plat this season?
I love this meta so much, I will be so sad when Riot caves to whiners and rebalances things back to ADCs only in bot.
Supports are a weird one because if they're balanced entirely around reduced income and suddenly they get solo laner gold you can't do anything. Ivern when he was on top of the jungle is a good comparison, he'd just throw out a massive shield every couple of seconds and cool in a twenty second fight I've done zero damage.
I do kind of feel like an assassin meta is going to make a comeback soon. Akali rework is going to be pants on head considering who's in charge (CertainlyT) and enchanter type supports are being nerfed. Dunno if it's across the board stuff or just itemization through Forbidden Idol but that does impact them and their ability to keep someone alive via thousand health shields.
If anything hopefully that means tanks make more of an appearance because right now it's literally 9.5 carries per game.
I'm just going to keep playing adc until I see a compelling reason not to.
If I have to take my Sivir midlane or something because bot becomes a bruiser fiesta so be it. But at this point I'm just going to keep playing adcs bot cause it works well.
If it does seriously become mage-heavy I guess I could play Brand or Zyra as bot carry? I don't know, do people think Zyra works or does she for some reason not have what it takes to make a botlane mage? I've been watching CLG Auto stream a bit and he seems most sold on Brand and Syndra (but I don't have the mechanics for the latter).
Congratulations, you've mastered the most difficult combo Syndra has available!
She isn't hard to play and she was never hard to play.
Actual page is here. I...don't think I like it very much. He's certainly much more of a "heavy" than before, but he looks more generic, and the kit feels pretty meh to me except for the W (chains someone in an area and pulls them back after a delay).
Also, Darius and Garen legendaries.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
She’s hard for me to play! I am so much worse at her mid than other mages, even though I’ve put in some good amount of practice time ...so I could feel justified buying the cat face orb skin
You could also increase the damage by 33% if you press Q first; planning early and you can increase it 66% by pressing it early and then again when it comes off cooldown and then hitting R.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
I have never not been banning yi. I’m glad the meta has shifted to prove I am forward thinking.
sneaky, Jensen and smoothie all benched
Honestly, given the relative proportion of ADCs to the rest of the roster, I think this meta is pretty spot-on. A lot of teams are still running ADCs anyway, and they still scale quite well. I do think Riot should tap back the snowballing just a smidge to give scaling champions a better chance to reach "end-game," but that is probably a more systemic issue. It might be something as simple as making towers stronger or bruiser builds a bit more expensive.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
Isn't sneaky and Jensen often considered the best at their position too?
Pretty much. They are each easily top 3 at their roles and I don't really think either has been slumping. It's weird.
:bzz:
This is a super common thing in 3s right now and it's making me really regret setting a goal of making gold in 3s (something I thought would be pretty easy but I'm still not quite there because it really is a bit of a different game).
It's super unfun to both play with and against and I hope they nerf it into the ground.
It's actually been the meta for a couple of seasons now, I believe. I do agree it seems fairly toxic in 3s, but I'm not sure what the best solution is.
I've been seeing a few...
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
too late; I've encountered the Karthus Morg gold-funneling strategy and it was really unfun and I started banning Karthus for the moment
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrazyVivaciousWoodpeckerPraiseIt
The part I enjoy about it is they said they wanted to have it make sense but instead what happens is you'll get stuck in a loop pathing forward and backwards because two minions are next to each other, or you are completely incapable of pathing upwards because a minion happened to be walking alongside you and it's now taking you on a trip down the lane.
Either that or they didn't feel the ghosted effect was strong enough on the champions and items that had it so they had to do something. Namely, make sure minion pathing was something incredibly fucking frustrating.
for the record
all players: get your stupid shit out of my botlane
I think I'm just staying out of ranked for awhile. I'm in mid silver so I'm not sure it's affecting it, but I don't want to see karthus bans and also people assume I'm wanting to cheese when I do pick it. I just want to pew pew with Q''s and hut R occasionally
This META is kind of horrible to watch from the eulcs standpoint. I worked from home today and ooof those matches were tough to watch. I’m incredibly happy there appears to be a wide open playstyle but it makes for stomps and rough watches.
So how's learning Vlad going?
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Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Second draft, the moron locks in Vayne and I just dodged.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Really you could say that gold funneling is what a Euro lane is, or aka, our standard bottom lane.
However they have specified that they are looking into it because it makes mid a non interactive lane and boring.
Any matchees in particular to watch? Was either gonna finish up the dive (NA and EU) or some LCK matches while I went to sleep tonight.
>:[ >:[ >:[
you're gonna give me an aneurysm
But actually for the past week I've been tired and busy and haven't played any soloQ or adc games, only FlexQ support games cause I know I'm not at my best. So instead I'm just supporting for or against some extremely dumb shit and it's just not actually particularly fun.
Sorry Lux adc, but if you can't hit your skillshots and are doing less well than my op Zyra supp, maybe you support and I get the gold, hm...?
If I have to switch to mage bot I'll play Brand--I mean in general I need to actually get better as Brand because he really is quite strong, but I'm just not accurate enough with W and I don't have a really intuitive sense of his mana costs. I also wouldn't mind playing a Zyra bot--may or may not be 'meta', whatever that is at this point, but I'm good at it (I realized why I have such a low winrate on her this season--it's because I spent my week post-surgery spamming high-ping ranked Zyra games while I was recovering and pretty mentally out of it, and lost a ton but didn't really care. Of the games I've played while on my own PC and sober, I have a good winrate :P )