also advice for the scenario in the eye of eternity that sub rogue and some other specs get:
do NOT INTERRUPT the big boss in the last phase when he's casting the add summon spell, it lets you interrupt him for some reason but that just makes him follow you around, it doesn't stop the adds from spawning, and if he's following you you can't run away from him to the other side of the room to keep the adds from reaching him immediately and healing him to full. I fell for this for a while and was very mad when I figured out what I was doing wrong.
No class quest requires raids. At most you will need to run a dungeon but it can be completed on normal difficulty.
I think what Mill is talking about are the Mage Tower quests which has a quest for each spec of a class to unlock a weapon skin. Those require about 890+ ilvl which isn't too hard and a good understanding of that spec and how it works. They are very hard.
Edit: As far as the legionfall WQ, I'm pretty sure if it is the first time the player needs to do a portion of the quests to unlock world quests. If another character has already completed the quests to be able to do the emissary then it is automatically unlocked for alts.
those scenarios being beatable at 890 is a fucking myth perpetrated by the .01% of people who play like perfect immortal machines and did 2 million single target DPS in nighthold
normal people need to be 930-940 to stand a chance on the easy ones
Hardly. I did my warrior ones at 900 ish in Nighthold and have been steadily going through the specs I'm playing semiactively on the alts. The easiest ones (windwalker and vengeance) weren't even 900 and I know a guildie did Vengeance in 2 attempts with no legos and at about 890 ilvl.
Druids have a class quest to kill Xavius on any difficultly
Everybody does, I believe, as part of the order hall campaign. But you can LFR it with basically no mechanics now.
Warlocks didn't need to nor did most of the other classes
Druids are the only class I know of that have a quest to do it in a raid the rest are dungeons
I will now take the time to say the Eye of Azshara is bad why would I want to keep going there for class quests and professions when it's a not fun dungeon to do
Druids have a class quest to kill Xavius on any difficultly
Everybody does, I believe, as part of the order hall campaign. But you can LFR it with basically no mechanics now.
Warlocks didn't need to nor did most of the other classes
Druids are the only class I know of that have a quest to do it in a raid the rest are dungeons
I will now take the time to say the Eye of Azshara is bad why would I want to keep going there for class quests and professions when it's a not fun dungeon to do
Are you sure? I remember being sent in there by a quest on at least two of my characters. Pretty sure my Priest went with my friends' Warrior and Shaman too, who all needed it.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
No class quest requires raids. At most you will need to run a dungeon but it can be completed on normal difficulty.
I think what Mill is talking about are the Mage Tower quests which has a quest for each spec of a class to unlock a weapon skin. Those require about 890+ ilvl which isn't too hard and a good understanding of that spec and how it works. They are very hard.
Edit: As far as the legionfall WQ, I'm pretty sure if it is the first time the player needs to do a portion of the quests to unlock world quests. If another character has already completed the quests to be able to do the emissary then it is automatically unlocked for alts.
those scenarios being beatable at 890 is a fucking myth perpetrated by the .01% of people who play like perfect immortal machines and did 2 million single target DPS in nighthold
normal people need to be 930-940 to stand a chance on the easy ones
Hardly. I did my warrior ones at 900 ish in Nighthold and have been steadily going through the specs I'm playing semiactively on the alts. The easiest ones (windwalker and vengeance) weren't even 900 and I know a guildie did Vengeance in 2 attempts with no legos and at about 890 ilvl.
Oh good. I was gonna say I must be pretty good having done Veng at like 915 and no tanking legendaries. It took me like 20 tries though but most of that was before I realized glide canceled the knock backs. It felt like cheating the tank challenge honestly.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
No class quest requires raids. At most you will need to run a dungeon but it can be completed on normal difficulty.
I think what Mill is talking about are the Mage Tower quests which has a quest for each spec of a class to unlock a weapon skin. Those require about 890+ ilvl which isn't too hard and a good understanding of that spec and how it works. They are very hard.
Edit: As far as the legionfall WQ, I'm pretty sure if it is the first time the player needs to do a portion of the quests to unlock world quests. If another character has already completed the quests to be able to do the emissary then it is automatically unlocked for alts.
those scenarios being beatable at 890 is a fucking myth perpetrated by the .01% of people who play like perfect immortal machines and did 2 million single target DPS in nighthold
normal people need to be 930-940 to stand a chance on the easy ones
Hardly. I did my warrior ones at 900 ish in Nighthold and have been steadily going through the specs I'm playing semiactively on the alts. The easiest ones (windwalker and vengeance) weren't even 900 and I know a guildie did Vengeance in 2 attempts with no legos and at about 890 ilvl.
Vengeance became trivial the moment they did the Spirit Bomb rework, prior to that I think the lowest item-level anybody did it in was 902, and that was a slog.
Yeah I think I was...905ish or something, before the spirit bomb/general DPS buff, and before the nerfs. It was rough in every which way. The havoc one was like a vacation in comparison
It's so weird to me that people still go out of their way to gank people who are leveling. Sure I get that people know a ton of people are leveling for heritage armor, but I've been ganked in weird places like desolace that I would figure no one else would go. The flip side is that obviously those people are the people who just hit 110 and are complete garbage so I just fly out one of my 110s and put them in their place. It is pretty fun though when you end up fighting someone closer to your level. Hunter is just so easymode for leveling though that if someone jumps me i can turn on them really easy.
It's so weird to me that people still go out of their way to gank people who are leveling. Sure I get that people know a ton of people are leveling for heritage armor, but I've been ganked in weird places like desolace that I would figure no one else would go. The flip side is that obviously those people are the people who just hit 110 and are complete garbage so I just fly out one of my 110s and put them in their place. It is pretty fun though when you end up fighting someone closer to your level. Hunter is just so easymode for leveling though that if someone jumps me i can turn on them really easy.
Which is why the PvP toggle is coming on BFA, because no matter the lack of rewards, there's a small group of players that will go out of their way to inconvenience someone else. All the scaling of the world won't stop a DK fresh of the starter zone that wants to gank level 15+ chars on Ghostlands, and that happened to me in Wrath.
World PvP was always really fun to me when it's fair. The tension of it actually reminds me of PUBG a bit. Both the feeling of being the predator trying to catch someone when they're vulnerable, and the victim trying to be on the lookout for a hostile player nearby while you do your quests. I'm inclined to say that all PvP should use flattened stats by level, gear should never play a part in it.
I dished out more than I got, I made sure to send a message to those peasants. Probably feels bad getting globaled by a holy paladin. Like do people not realize that it only takes me 20 seconds to logout and switch to my 110 i keep in whichever zone im leveling in?! The whole ganking thing though just goes back to the scaling between levels being a problem, but we've hit that enough I think.
I think the pvp toggle will ultimately be a failure unless they incentivize it like they said they would be able to. It would make even less sense for them to completely ignore pvp when they are also trying to show more support for it as an esport.
It's so weird to me that people still go out of their way to gank people who are leveling. Sure I get that people know a ton of people are leveling for heritage armor, but I've been ganked in weird places like desolace that I would figure no one else would go. The flip side is that obviously those people are the people who just hit 110 and are complete garbage so I just fly out one of my 110s and put them in their place. It is pretty fun though when you end up fighting someone closer to your level. Hunter is just so easymode for leveling though that if someone jumps me i can turn on them really easy.
I once accidentally hit a priest when I was doing a WQ. He took offense and attacked me. About 10 minutes later we both gave up. We clearly both sucked at PvP. He was a healer spec, so I couldn't outdo his healing and he couldn't outdamage my self healing.
I dished out more than I got, I made sure to send a message to those peasants. Probably feels bad getting globaled by a holy paladin. Like do people not realize that it only takes me 20 seconds to logout and switch to my 110 i keep in whichever zone im leveling in?! The whole ganking thing though just goes back to the scaling between levels being a problem, but we've hit that enough I think.
I think the pvp toggle will ultimately be a failure unless they incentivize it like they said they would be able to. It would make even less sense for them to completely ignore pvp when they are also trying to show more support for it as an esport.
Unless "level in Stranglethorn" becomes an esports event, i don't see how they are related at all.
I dished out more than I got, I made sure to send a message to those peasants. Probably feels bad getting globaled by a holy paladin. Like do people not realize that it only takes me 20 seconds to logout and switch to my 110 i keep in whichever zone im leveling in?! The whole ganking thing though just goes back to the scaling between levels being a problem, but we've hit that enough I think.
I think the pvp toggle will ultimately be a failure unless they incentivize it like they said they would be able to. It would make even less sense for them to completely ignore pvp when they are also trying to show more support for it as an esport.
Unless "level in Stranglethorn" becomes an esports event, i don't see how they are related at all.
Yeah, Arena and BGs are completely different things than World PvP. And even then, Blizz usually goes with "the World PvP zone" like Wintergrasp or Ashran, since the "gank or being ganked" play is not particulary fun or interesting, just an outdated relic that now there is the tech to make it go away.
I dished out more than I got, I made sure to send a message to those peasants. Probably feels bad getting globaled by a holy paladin. Like do people not realize that it only takes me 20 seconds to logout and switch to my 110 i keep in whichever zone im leveling in?! The whole ganking thing though just goes back to the scaling between levels being a problem, but we've hit that enough I think.
I think the pvp toggle will ultimately be a failure unless they incentivize it like they said they would be able to. It would make even less sense for them to completely ignore pvp when they are also trying to show more support for it as an esport.
Unless "level in Stranglethorn" becomes an esports event, i don't see how they are related at all.
Theyre related because the arena is never going to be the vector that gets anyone new into pvp. But if all of your experience with pvp boils down to being 1 shot a few times while leveling, of course that person isn't going to bother with it at any other point. That's why it is actually very important for everyone to be able to have a chance of winning a fight. Vanilla it was possible for a group of lowbies to take out someone much higher than them. TBC that was less the case because of pvp gear, but was doable for some classes. Anything after that just had too much stratification and there was no ability to beat someone even a level higher than you. So the problem is that they don't support how a large group of people first experience pvp, they dont incentivize BGs at all, and arena is absolutely terrible to get into if you havent played BGs or at least fought with some people out in the world at some point. Now they are trying to grow the competitive arena scene, but are doing NOTHING to bring in any new players. Which is why so many of the people who play in the tournaments are just the same people over and over.
They may be different formats but all forms of pvp flow into each other. Just like how in pve, the new m+ system and lfr helps to get people to try out harder and more rewarding content. Not that everyone does it, but if someone likes doing it, and wants more that is available to them. If someone gets wrecked while leveling, they are just going to say fuck it, effectively turning people off from a part of the game. Especially since the thing you would opt into gives rewards WORSE than even lfr. PvE at least has a feedback loop where people do dungeons to raid for better gear, then they do harder m+ and then harder raids. PvP basically shoots itself in the foot at every turn and each format is exclusive from the others.
Not to mention even the weekend events have basically no reward. You get a token for 1k honor, and like 5 badges of honor. You'll get more than that just playing a couple BGs. Where is the gear reward or anything significant? The prestige rewards are mostly garbage as well. For most specs the pvp artifact appearance is the worst looking one, sometimes even worse than the base one you get just starting legion. The prestige system is also designed to be alt unfriendly, which isn't going to fly anymore since it's so much easier now to get multiple capped characters than in say vanilla. I have like 4-5 characters around prestige 3 and a couple others at 1-2, so that translates to being way higher if it were all on one character. But screw me for swapping between heals and dps.
World PvP is not going to be the first experience of anybody anymore, because the effect of the toggle is to basically remove it from the equation entirely, now the starter PvP experience is going to be BGs or whatever Open PvP zone they decide to put in.
World PvP is not going to be the first experience of anybody anymore, because the effect of the toggle is to basically remove it from the equation entirely, now the starter PvP experience is going to be BGs or whatever Open PvP zone they decide to put in.
I get it you don't pvp. But making the starter experience be BGs that have no rewards or incentives isn't going to work. I do think it's fine that they are making things toggle-able. But they are going to have to give really good incentives to make people want to do it. If they do give it some kind of incentive, they are also going to have to revamp BG and Arena rewards as well, or even less people will do them. It could be like people doing TM/SS instead of doing the shiny new BGs because it was better for honor grinding. People don't do anything in WoW just because it's what they like, they like to be rewarded for their time as well. The toggle on it's own is just going to fix people who made dumb server decisions. It isn't going to fix anything about the pvp situation.
World PvP was always really fun to me when it's fair. The tension of it actually reminds me of PUBG a bit. Both the feeling of being the predator trying to catch someone when they're vulnerable, and the victim trying to be on the lookout for a hostile player nearby while you do your quests. I'm inclined to say that all PvP should use flattened stats by level, gear should never play a part in it.
World pvp for me has never been fair but I learned to deal with it
I just spent a few hours failing at the “tank” challenge as a prot Paladin and it was super frustrating even as a 940ish tank with the “right” legendaries. I didn’t use drums or a flask so I was getting 2 infernals before the boss spawned and between them, the boss abilities and the adds, it was too much for me to manage.
I like how it tested such critical tanking skills such as dealing ranged damage, getting the most out of your dps burst window and talenting for as much dps as you can. /sarcasm . I would have had a much easier time as ret. At least it’s quick unlike the healer one but the healer one actually involved healing and only took 7-8 tries because of that.
Battlenet ID: NullPointer
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I like how it tested such critical tanking skills such as dealing ranged damage, getting the most out of your dps burst window and talenting for as much dps as you can. /sarcasm.
Being good at all of those things is very important for tanks, so I'm not sure why you're being sarcastic.
This myth that tanks should only need to care about survivability and mechanics is just silly and I'm tired of it propagating. Your DPS is as important to maximise as anyone else's DPS, so the tanking challenge testing it is perfectly reasonable.
The only reason the tanking challenge isn't really testing your pure health & survivability is because you outgear it. At 900 ilvl, putting together a cooldown plan to survive Phase 2 Annihilates was a substantial portion of the encounter's difficulty, and even surviving the steady magic damage in Phase 1 was something to think about. You outgear the survivability check of the challenge much quicker than you outgear the DPS check.
The tanking challenge is probably the best all around test of modern tanking ability I can think of in the game, and if any part of it seems out of place to you then it's your expectations of what tanking is that need adjusting, not the challenge.
No that’s accurate. World pvp has never ever ever been fair
I'm not saying there was a time when it was always fair, rather I found it fun on the occasions that the people I encountered were other solo players at my level. Not high level griefers or gank groups. I think it could be fun if power disparity was removed from the equation entirely.
I actually really enjoyed mucking about on Tol Barad when it was a thing. I kind of wish that they'd do zones without a story that have events for you to chase that also have enemy faction players in them. Like if the Broken Shore were a pvp zone...but I'm probably in the minority there.
I actually really enjoyed mucking about on Tol Barad when it was a thing. I kind of wish that they'd do zones without a story that have events for you to chase that also have enemy faction players in them. Like if the Broken Shore were a pvp zone...but I'm probably in the minority there.
If Blizz had made a zone with mandatory PvP a requisite for flying people would have gone apeshit.
No that’s accurate. World pvp has never ever ever been fair
I'm not saying there was a time when it was always fair, rather I found it fun on the occasions that the people I encountered were other solo players at my level. Not high level griefers or gank groups. I think it could be fun if power disparity was removed from the equation entirely.
A same level hunter attacked me the other day in STV. I feigned his aim shot cast then turned around and killed him. Later he ran by me on a bridge and i just kept running and he /spit on me. it was glorious.
the phasing thing might actually revive world pvp, since you will be 'matched' with other people who 1) actually want to pvp and 2) are roughly your level (I assume, anyway.) So if you like the idea of lowbie pvp while leveling, now you can do that.
World PvP is not going to be the first experience of anybody anymore, because the effect of the toggle is to basically remove it from the equation entirely, now the starter PvP experience is going to be BGs or whatever Open PvP zone they decide to put in.
I get it you don't pvp. But making the starter experience be BGs that have no rewards or incentives isn't going to work. I do think it's fine that they are making things toggle-able. But they are going to have to give really good incentives to make people want to do it.
do they need a strong incentive? There are lots of people right now who apparently want to do it for no additional reward at all.
I know back when it was announced they talked about tying additional pvp rewards into world quests though (honor points presumably)
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I actually really enjoyed mucking about on Tol Barad when it was a thing. I kind of wish that they'd do zones without a story that have events for you to chase that also have enemy faction players in them. Like if the Broken Shore were a pvp zone...but I'm probably in the minority there.
If Blizz had made a zone with mandatory PvP a requisite for flying people would have gone apeshit.
Not exactly what I meant. I am probably also in the minority that thinks flying was bad for the game, but you can't really put that cat back in the bag. They really ought to do some floating island type things, where the pvp zones are only reachable through flying. Just throw the best crafting stuff there or the Legendary essence equivalent, and I'd be happy. Note: not saying only source of those things.
Flying and quest helper were bad from an exploration and immersion standpoint, and for pvp. But good for just rapidly checking boxes to get more of whatever makes your numbers bigger.
the phasing thing might actually revive world pvp, since you will be 'matched' with other people who 1) actually want to pvp and 2) are roughly your level (I assume, anyway.) So if you like the idea of lowbie pvp while leveling, now you can do that.
World PvP is not going to be the first experience of anybody anymore, because the effect of the toggle is to basically remove it from the equation entirely, now the starter PvP experience is going to be BGs or whatever Open PvP zone they decide to put in.
I get it you don't pvp. But making the starter experience be BGs that have no rewards or incentives isn't going to work. I do think it's fine that they are making things toggle-able. But they are going to have to give really good incentives to make people want to do it.
do they need a strong incentive? There are lots of people right now who apparently want to do it for no additional reward at all.
I know back when it was announced they talked about tying additional pvp rewards into world quests though (honor points presumably)
Incentive is definitely needed for a larger number of people to be involved. There will always be some who do it for no reward like the people pushing 25+ keystones as the reward stopped at 15. Same with gankers, they just want the notoriety of being a jerk. Even bajheera said the reason he pve’d so much this expansion is because the rewards are so much better and that people always want to advance their character, which you really cant feasibly do in pvp. Even like 2400 rating barely gets you heroic raid ilvl gear, and there are no set bonuses and usually stacked with vers or whatever useless stat combo. People often say “but you dont need gear for pvp”, but most peoppe do other content as well and it doesnt make sense to just have shit gear for it. As well the vast majority of people arent going to go near that rating. Theyve just handled pvp wrong for a while. Hopefully they fix it but their track record isnt very good.
Just logged on and noticed my follower mission for Blood of Sargeras now costs 2,400 resources instead of 1,800. Did some searching and saw there was a hotfix patch today:
Argus missions that award Blood of Sargeras now cost 600 more Order Hall Resources. This will not be correctly reflected in the Legion Companion App until its next version update.
That is frustrating. Thanks, Blizz.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
No that’s accurate. World pvp has never ever ever been fair
No, just that at it's best, not every single fight was fair, so people translated that to this.
Early on when there wasn't such a vast void in all stats and levels, world pvp was capable of being very fair.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
They changed it because it rewarded enough blood of sargeras that if you converted them to order resources they returned more resources than the mission initially cost, which made your characters self-sustaining without needing to leave their class hall. They want to discourage people from being able to do missions by just sitting in their order hall a la Warlords of Garrisons.
Not necessarily passing judgement on whether their goal is correct, but that's the reason they changed the mission.
ugh god damn it they blew it up
world quests are a lot of fun! for a week or two at the start of the expansion or a day or two on a fresh 110 alt, after which you don't have a serious chance at getting any useable gear rewards because you outgear their ilvl range. Running them just to farm order resources or AP or whatever bullshit currency is no better than the old style dailies.
I used to like PVP in WoW then in early Cata I am in TB wondering why am I bothering?
I am very poorly geared {cata sucked until firelands as it had the attitude of don't raid well FU}
Barely killing people since affliction got gutted because it was "too hard" to play just a whole mindset changed in game for me
Even the dailies in early Cata sucked as I really had to do them as Demon just for the aoe
Honestly, if the new toggle kills world PvP, then that would just prove that it was trash, that sizable chunk of the pro-world PvP crowd were scum and prove the devs were total fucking idiots for not doing much about lowbie killing (which IMO is actually harassing people; especially, when paired with the line "I'm just teaching them how to PvP," while one-shotting players that never had a chance).
Honestly, some of the BGs and world PvP zones didn't an adequate job of having the whole thing of watching year back when you engage mobs in the zone, while looking for chances to get the drop on an enemy player that is bogged down in combat with something. Only difference was you at the very least had level parity. None of this shit, where some goose hops onto the fully geared out main, heads to the lowest contested zone to grief low level. Then run, the moment they aren't guaranteed a win. Hell puzzles me that they've kept up with it some long because it probably hurts their subs numbers. Nearly quite in BC because my friends rolled on a PvP server, where that shit was frequent. I just happened to find a PvE server with people I enjoyed playing with, but I'm pretty sure a fair number of people in my shoes just said "fuck it!. Followed with cancelling any payments and uninstalling the game. I mean sure they'd lose some of the griefers, but I'm pretty sure they'd retain more players overall because let's be honest it was a small group that goes out of it's way to cause people problems and a decent chunk of that group will always make noise about quitting if X doesn't happen, but we all know they won't leave the game unless something outside their control cuts them off (be that a ban, lack of money or no longer having access to a computer).
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do NOT INTERRUPT the big boss in the last phase when he's casting the add summon spell, it lets you interrupt him for some reason but that just makes him follow you around, it doesn't stop the adds from spawning, and if he's following you you can't run away from him to the other side of the room to keep the adds from reaching him immediately and healing him to full. I fell for this for a while and was very mad when I figured out what I was doing wrong.
Hardly. I did my warrior ones at 900 ish in Nighthold and have been steadily going through the specs I'm playing semiactively on the alts. The easiest ones (windwalker and vengeance) weren't even 900 and I know a guildie did Vengeance in 2 attempts with no legos and at about 890 ilvl.
Everybody does, I believe, as part of the order hall campaign. But you can LFR it with basically no mechanics now.
Warlocks didn't need to nor did most of the other classes
Druids are the only class I know of that have a quest to do it in a raid the rest are dungeons
I will now take the time to say the Eye of Azshara is bad why would I want to keep going there for class quests and professions when it's a not fun dungeon to do
Are you sure? I remember being sent in there by a quest on at least two of my characters. Pretty sure my Priest went with my friends' Warrior and Shaman too, who all needed it.
Oh good. I was gonna say I must be pretty good having done Veng at like 915 and no tanking legendaries. It took me like 20 tries though but most of that was before I realized glide canceled the knock backs. It felt like cheating the tank challenge honestly.
Vengeance became trivial the moment they did the Spirit Bomb rework, prior to that I think the lowest item-level anybody did it in was 902, and that was a slog.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
Which is why the PvP toggle is coming on BFA, because no matter the lack of rewards, there's a small group of players that will go out of their way to inconvenience someone else. All the scaling of the world won't stop a DK fresh of the starter zone that wants to gank level 15+ chars on Ghostlands, and that happened to me in Wrath.
I think the pvp toggle will ultimately be a failure unless they incentivize it like they said they would be able to. It would make even less sense for them to completely ignore pvp when they are also trying to show more support for it as an esport.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
I once accidentally hit a priest when I was doing a WQ. He took offense and attacked me. About 10 minutes later we both gave up. We clearly both sucked at PvP. He was a healer spec, so I couldn't outdo his healing and he couldn't outdamage my self healing.
Unless "level in Stranglethorn" becomes an esports event, i don't see how they are related at all.
Yeah, Arena and BGs are completely different things than World PvP. And even then, Blizz usually goes with "the World PvP zone" like Wintergrasp or Ashran, since the "gank or being ganked" play is not particulary fun or interesting, just an outdated relic that now there is the tech to make it go away.
Theyre related because the arena is never going to be the vector that gets anyone new into pvp. But if all of your experience with pvp boils down to being 1 shot a few times while leveling, of course that person isn't going to bother with it at any other point. That's why it is actually very important for everyone to be able to have a chance of winning a fight. Vanilla it was possible for a group of lowbies to take out someone much higher than them. TBC that was less the case because of pvp gear, but was doable for some classes. Anything after that just had too much stratification and there was no ability to beat someone even a level higher than you. So the problem is that they don't support how a large group of people first experience pvp, they dont incentivize BGs at all, and arena is absolutely terrible to get into if you havent played BGs or at least fought with some people out in the world at some point. Now they are trying to grow the competitive arena scene, but are doing NOTHING to bring in any new players. Which is why so many of the people who play in the tournaments are just the same people over and over.
They may be different formats but all forms of pvp flow into each other. Just like how in pve, the new m+ system and lfr helps to get people to try out harder and more rewarding content. Not that everyone does it, but if someone likes doing it, and wants more that is available to them. If someone gets wrecked while leveling, they are just going to say fuck it, effectively turning people off from a part of the game. Especially since the thing you would opt into gives rewards WORSE than even lfr. PvE at least has a feedback loop where people do dungeons to raid for better gear, then they do harder m+ and then harder raids. PvP basically shoots itself in the foot at every turn and each format is exclusive from the others.
Not to mention even the weekend events have basically no reward. You get a token for 1k honor, and like 5 badges of honor. You'll get more than that just playing a couple BGs. Where is the gear reward or anything significant? The prestige rewards are mostly garbage as well. For most specs the pvp artifact appearance is the worst looking one, sometimes even worse than the base one you get just starting legion. The prestige system is also designed to be alt unfriendly, which isn't going to fly anymore since it's so much easier now to get multiple capped characters than in say vanilla. I have like 4-5 characters around prestige 3 and a couple others at 1-2, so that translates to being way higher if it were all on one character. But screw me for swapping between heals and dps.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
I get it you don't pvp. But making the starter experience be BGs that have no rewards or incentives isn't going to work. I do think it's fine that they are making things toggle-able. But they are going to have to give really good incentives to make people want to do it. If they do give it some kind of incentive, they are also going to have to revamp BG and Arena rewards as well, or even less people will do them. It could be like people doing TM/SS instead of doing the shiny new BGs because it was better for honor grinding. People don't do anything in WoW just because it's what they like, they like to be rewarded for their time as well. The toggle on it's own is just going to fix people who made dumb server decisions. It isn't going to fix anything about the pvp situation.
I cannot wait to hop on my warlock and just seed of corruption everyone for a crapton of damage.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
I wonder how Packed House would work on Shado-Pan Showdown.
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World pvp for me has never been fair but I learned to deal with it
The whole point is to ambush someone while they are fighting a mob (or 5).
I like how it tested such critical tanking skills such as dealing ranged damage, getting the most out of your dps burst window and talenting for as much dps as you can. /sarcasm . I would have had a much easier time as ret. At least it’s quick unlike the healer one but the healer one actually involved healing and only took 7-8 tries because of that.
Being good at all of those things is very important for tanks, so I'm not sure why you're being sarcastic.
This myth that tanks should only need to care about survivability and mechanics is just silly and I'm tired of it propagating. Your DPS is as important to maximise as anyone else's DPS, so the tanking challenge testing it is perfectly reasonable.
The only reason the tanking challenge isn't really testing your pure health & survivability is because you outgear it. At 900 ilvl, putting together a cooldown plan to survive Phase 2 Annihilates was a substantial portion of the encounter's difficulty, and even surviving the steady magic damage in Phase 1 was something to think about. You outgear the survivability check of the challenge much quicker than you outgear the DPS check.
The tanking challenge is probably the best all around test of modern tanking ability I can think of in the game, and if any part of it seems out of place to you then it's your expectations of what tanking is that need adjusting, not the challenge.
I'm not saying there was a time when it was always fair, rather I found it fun on the occasions that the people I encountered were other solo players at my level. Not high level griefers or gank groups. I think it could be fun if power disparity was removed from the equation entirely.
If Blizz had made a zone with mandatory PvP a requisite for flying people would have gone apeshit.
A same level hunter attacked me the other day in STV. I feigned his aim shot cast then turned around and killed him. Later he ran by me on a bridge and i just kept running and he /spit on me. it was glorious.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
do they need a strong incentive? There are lots of people right now who apparently want to do it for no additional reward at all.
I know back when it was announced they talked about tying additional pvp rewards into world quests though (honor points presumably)
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Not exactly what I meant. I am probably also in the minority that thinks flying was bad for the game, but you can't really put that cat back in the bag. They really ought to do some floating island type things, where the pvp zones are only reachable through flying. Just throw the best crafting stuff there or the Legendary essence equivalent, and I'd be happy. Note: not saying only source of those things.
Incentive is definitely needed for a larger number of people to be involved. There will always be some who do it for no reward like the people pushing 25+ keystones as the reward stopped at 15. Same with gankers, they just want the notoriety of being a jerk. Even bajheera said the reason he pve’d so much this expansion is because the rewards are so much better and that people always want to advance their character, which you really cant feasibly do in pvp. Even like 2400 rating barely gets you heroic raid ilvl gear, and there are no set bonuses and usually stacked with vers or whatever useless stat combo. People often say “but you dont need gear for pvp”, but most peoppe do other content as well and it doesnt make sense to just have shit gear for it. As well the vast majority of people arent going to go near that rating. Theyve just handled pvp wrong for a while. Hopefully they fix it but their track record isnt very good.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
No, just that at it's best, not every single fight was fair, so people translated that to this.
Early on when there wasn't such a vast void in all stats and levels, world pvp was capable of being very fair.
Not necessarily passing judgement on whether their goal is correct, but that's the reason they changed the mission.
world quests are a lot of fun! for a week or two at the start of the expansion or a day or two on a fresh 110 alt, after which you don't have a serious chance at getting any useable gear rewards because you outgear their ilvl range. Running them just to farm order resources or AP or whatever bullshit currency is no better than the old style dailies.
I am very poorly geared {cata sucked until firelands as it had the attitude of don't raid well FU}
Barely killing people since affliction got gutted because it was "too hard" to play just a whole mindset changed in game for me
Even the dailies in early Cata sucked as I really had to do them as Demon just for the aoe
Honestly, some of the BGs and world PvP zones didn't an adequate job of having the whole thing of watching year back when you engage mobs in the zone, while looking for chances to get the drop on an enemy player that is bogged down in combat with something. Only difference was you at the very least had level parity. None of this shit, where some goose hops onto the fully geared out main, heads to the lowest contested zone to grief low level. Then run, the moment they aren't guaranteed a win. Hell puzzles me that they've kept up with it some long because it probably hurts their subs numbers. Nearly quite in BC because my friends rolled on a PvP server, where that shit was frequent. I just happened to find a PvE server with people I enjoyed playing with, but I'm pretty sure a fair number of people in my shoes just said "fuck it!. Followed with cancelling any payments and uninstalling the game. I mean sure they'd lose some of the griefers, but I'm pretty sure they'd retain more players overall because let's be honest it was a small group that goes out of it's way to cause people problems and a decent chunk of that group will always make noise about quitting if X doesn't happen, but we all know they won't leave the game unless something outside their control cuts them off (be that a ban, lack of money or no longer having access to a computer).
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.