I've been out of the loop for a couple expansions now but I just saw a couple videos uploaded by Blizzard officially for the Legion expansion conclusion (Horde & Alliance perspective).
The Goblins are digging up Sargeras' sword I guess? Is it explained yet what is going on or no?
they're digging up azerite, a mineral erupting out of the ground following sargeras stabbing the world. the next expansion is the result of a fight over azerite resources. also you're going to put azerite into your neck to power it up
I've been out of the loop for a couple expansions now but I just saw a couple videos uploaded by Blizzard officially for the Legion expansion conclusion (Horde & Alliance perspective).
The Goblins are digging up Sargeras' sword I guess? Is it explained yet what is going on or no?
Yes, leadup events in game are already viewable for players. Basically Sargeras' sword stabbed deep enough to cause Azeroth to start bleeding her energy out, and this crystallizes into Azerite which both the Alliance and the Horde are at eachothers' throats to get a hold of because it's pretty damn powerful stuff.
Magni realizes that this is Azeroth's lifeblood and attempts to warn both sides that Azeroth is dying, but they both tell him to fuck off. So the expansion will mainly involve the overarching plot of him and Khadgar enlisting the PC's help yet again because the Alliance/Horde won't stop squabbling over the Azerite.
I've been out of the loop for a couple expansions now but I just saw a couple videos uploaded by Blizzard officially for the Legion expansion conclusion (Horde & Alliance perspective).
The Goblins are digging up Sargeras' sword I guess? Is it explained yet what is going on or no?
Yes, leadup events in game are already viewable for players. Basically Sargeras' sword stabbed deep enough to cause Azeroth to start bleeding her energy out, and this crystallizes into Azerite which both the Alliance and the Horde are at eachothers' throats to get a hold of because it's pretty damn powerful stuff.
Magni realizes that this is Azeroth's lifeblood and attempts to warn both sides that Azeroth is dying, but they both tell him to fuck off. So the expansion will mainly involve the overarching plot of him and Khadgar enlisting the PC's help yet again because the Alliance/Horde won't stop squabbling over the Azerite.
That's cool, I can deal with that as a plot.
Is there info out about class changes coming in this next expansion? The usual overhaul of this or that system like talents?
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Then how do they minimize it for casters?
I thought the biggest issue was that casters got so much main stat from weapons, they just scaled with them so much harder. At least with weapon damage, you gain the benefit of all your AP / main stat AND the weapons damage. If they just get damage from AP then the damage on the weapon is completely wasted.
It would almost be like at that point, why have weapon damage? It's not like auto attacks have been a near non factor for most classes for a few expansions now.
I thought the biggest issue was that casters got so much main stat from weapons, they just scaled with them so much harder. At least with weapon damage, you gain the benefit of all your AP / main stat AND the weapons damage. If they just get damage from AP then the damage on the weapon is completely wasted.
It would almost be like at that point, why have weapon damage? It's not like auto attacks have been a near non factor for most classes for a few expansions now.
That's just outright not true, melee classes have nearly always scaled harder with weapon item level. Casters hate primary stat.
I thought the biggest issue was that casters got so much main stat from weapons, they just scaled with them so much harder. At least with weapon damage, you gain the benefit of all your AP / main stat AND the weapons damage. If they just get damage from AP then the damage on the weapon is completely wasted.
It would almost be like at that point, why have weapon damage? It's not like auto attacks have been a near non factor for most classes for a few expansions now.
That's just outright not true, melee classes have nearly always scaled harder with weapon item level. Casters hate primary stat.
You are mixing up the two. Casters hate primary stat because they already have so much of it. Like, if you have 70k int 1 point of int is worth nearly half a melee class with 35k agi or str. So they value it based on how much they gain based on what they already have.
But their weapons gain SO much main stat on ilvl gain that they gain quite a bit from improving that. Also, they do not scale "horribly" with main stat. Just worse than secondaries. Gaining raw damage is never bad especially when you can gain like 2k int just by getting 5 weapon ilvls.
But the point was, it is the absurd int they get from weapons that MAKES their main stat trash. Which is why this fix is stupid, it further makes that less true for melee by removing something important from their weapons to make them less impactful, while allowing int users to still have something on their weapons completely rewrite their stat weights.
Donnicton had the right answer though. Apparently they like it that way.
Remember that when they gave everyone free weapon ilvl? Not a single pure caster got a damage bump to "compensate". That was because they got so much more out of the weapon increase. The classes who got the most were the melee classes who had little to no weapon damage abilities. So by making that be every melee class, you just further that gap.
melee historically got a lot more out of weapon ilvl because a large portion of their damage was white swing or based directly on weapon topend; that has decreased a lot over time, in favor of abilties that scale based on attack power (also white swings just aren't a big part of anyone's damage anymore.)
decreased relative value of primary stat is just a gear inflation thing, and it's happened every expansion: % scalars steadily become more valuable than the next marginal point of attack/spell power
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I wonder if this actually would help with design space and balancing so that they can do more stuff with white hits and keeping them relevant. The closest thing I think we have right now is Demon Hunter's build with Demon Blades?
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
They wanted to make white hits have almost no value because its a relatively non interactive form of damage. By devaluing just standing next to an enemy as a large portion of your damage, you make the button presses more meaningful. That is why almost all auto attack based stuff still in game is on classes that get some interactive aspect from it. Like Unholy DK getting free DCs from autos. That is why they have a talent to increase attack speed.
It is still early though for all this. They already made a large blanket adjustment to the damage values of skills (outside of other balancing, looked like everything was cut to 1/4 of it's scaling) so they are clearing taking this stat + ilvl squish as a time to readjust everything. That pretty much opens the door to completely redoing how everything works. So everything we know may be wrong as of right now.
I wonder if this actually would help with design space and balancing so that they can do more stuff with white hits and keeping them relevant. The closest thing I think we have right now is Demon Hunter's build with Demon Blades?
More likely is them trying to make main stat and hence, ilvl more important and trying to make Warforged weapons less important. And Demon Blades has been a.....polarizing talent, so don't see them moving to that direction.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Part of me thinks those hunter changes sound cool and fun.
But I don't play a hunter. Everyone who does dreads it based on how it was during expansions I didn't play.
I just miss the days of the Rake being super powered.
I mean it's just going back to how it was in Wrath with assigned pet families. I think it's fine. People are going to kvetch that they can't bring literally any pet for any activity.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Part of me thinks those hunter changes sound cool and fun.
But I don't play a hunter. Everyone who does dreads it based on how it was during expansions I didn't play.
I just miss the days of the Rake being super powered.
I mean it's just going back to how it was in Wrath with assigned pet families. I think it's fine. People are going to kvetch that they can't bring literally any pet for any activity.
The primary divide is between people who see their hunter pet as cosmetic and those who see them as a tool.
This change shits on those who see them as cosmetic. Though with heroism and brez being tied to specific pets they were already dealing with that anyway I guess.
Part of me thinks those hunter changes sound cool and fun.
But I don't play a hunter. Everyone who does dreads it based on how it was during expansions I didn't play.
I just miss the days of the Rake being super powered.
I mean it's just going back to how it was in Wrath with assigned pet families. I think it's fine. People are going to kvetch that they can't bring literally any pet for any activity.
The primary divide is between people who see their hunter pet as cosmetic and those who see them as a tool.
This change shits on those who see them as cosmetic. Though with heroism and brez being tied to specific pets they were already dealing with that anyway I guess.
Yeah, I'm like "well, if you don't bring a pet that can BRez or has Lust you are kinda not being as useful as you could be so...", but is my non-Hunter point of view. Also, in the BFA changes Blizz changed Moths from Ferocity to Cunning because lol you aren't getting BL and a Brez on the same pet.
But, all pet damage is now normalized, so you will just run a Tenacity pet 100% of the time unless the group lacks lust since the extra survability for you is that useful for pushing M+ and in Raids, and given that Quilens were changed to Tenacity and have a Brez, guess what. That or a Spirit Beast given all the Brez normalization and is the next more useful pet.
Part of me thinks those hunter changes sound cool and fun.
But I don't play a hunter. Everyone who does dreads it based on how it was during expansions I didn't play.
I just miss the days of the Rake being super powered.
I mean it's just going back to how it was in Wrath with assigned pet families. I think it's fine. People are going to kvetch that they can't bring literally any pet for any activity.
The primary divide is between people who see their hunter pet as cosmetic and those who see them as a tool.
This change shits on those who see them as cosmetic. Though with heroism and brez being tied to specific pets they were already dealing with that anyway I guess.
Yeah, I'm like "well, if you don't bring a pet that can BRez or has Lust you are kinda not being as useful as you could be so...", but is my non-Hunter point of view. Also, in the BFA changes Blizz changed Moths from Ferocity to Cunning because lol you aren't getting BL and a Brez on the same pet.
But, all pet damage is now normalized, so you will just run a Tenacity pet 100% of the time unless the group lacks lust since the extra survability for you is that useful for pushing M+ and in Raids, and given that Quilens were changed to Tenacity and have a Brez, guess what. That or a Spirit Beast given all the Brez normalization and is the next more useful pet.
The bottom right talent in the bm tree actually makes ferocity do more dps, and it is occasionally a viable choice depending on gear. I used it for, like, a week, based on sims.
Part of me thinks those hunter changes sound cool and fun.
But I don't play a hunter. Everyone who does dreads it based on how it was during expansions I didn't play.
I just miss the days of the Rake being super powered.
I mean it's just going back to how it was in Wrath with assigned pet families. I think it's fine. People are going to kvetch that they can't bring literally any pet for any activity.
The primary divide is between people who see their hunter pet as cosmetic and those who see them as a tool.
This change shits on those who see them as cosmetic. Though with heroism and brez being tied to specific pets they were already dealing with that anyway I guess.
Yeah, I'm like "well, if you don't bring a pet that can BRez or has Lust you are kinda not being as useful as you could be so...", but is my non-Hunter point of view. Also, in the BFA changes Blizz changed Moths from Ferocity to Cunning because lol you aren't getting BL and a Brez on the same pet.
But, all pet damage is now normalized, so you will just run a Tenacity pet 100% of the time unless the group lacks lust since the extra survability for you is that useful for pushing M+ and in Raids, and given that Quilens were changed to Tenacity and have a Brez, guess what. That or a Spirit Beast given all the Brez normalization and is the next more useful pet.
The bottom right talent in the bm tree actually makes ferocity do more dps, and it is occasionally a viable choice depending on gear. I used it for, like, a week, based on sims.
I meant on the BFA changes, so shouldn't be using "now".
EDIT: Also theoretical sim DPS, while important, isn't as important as to what utility you bring.
TryCatcher on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Part of me thinks those hunter changes sound cool and fun.
But I don't play a hunter. Everyone who does dreads it based on how it was during expansions I didn't play.
I just miss the days of the Rake being super powered.
I mean it's just going back to how it was in Wrath with assigned pet families. I think it's fine. People are going to kvetch that they can't bring literally any pet for any activity.
The primary divide is between people who see their hunter pet as cosmetic and those who see them as a tool.
This change shits on those who see them as cosmetic. Though with heroism and brez being tied to specific pets they were already dealing with that anyway I guess.
I mean as you point out pets have never actually been just cosmetic, it was just easier to disregard utility in Legion. People who are playing at less than optimal utility will probably continue to do so.
Part of me thinks those hunter changes sound cool and fun.
But I don't play a hunter. Everyone who does dreads it based on how it was during expansions I didn't play.
I just miss the days of the Rake being super powered.
I mean it's just going back to how it was in Wrath with assigned pet families. I think it's fine. People are going to kvetch that they can't bring literally any pet for any activity.
The primary divide is between people who see their hunter pet as cosmetic and those who see them as a tool.
This change shits on those who see them as cosmetic. Though with heroism and brez being tied to specific pets they were already dealing with that anyway I guess.
Yeah, I'm like "well, if you don't bring a pet that can BRez or has Lust you are kinda not being as useful as you could be so...", but is my non-Hunter point of view. Also, in the BFA changes Blizz changed Moths from Ferocity to Cunning because lol you aren't getting BL and a Brez on the same pet.
But, all pet damage is now normalized, so you will just run a Tenacity pet 100% of the time unless the group lacks lust since the extra survability for you is that useful for pushing M+ and in Raids, and given that Quilens were changed to Tenacity and have a Brez, guess what. That or a Spirit Beast given all the Brez normalization and is the next more useful pet.
The bottom right talent in the bm tree actually makes ferocity do more dps, and it is occasionally a viable choice depending on gear. I used it for, like, a week, based on sims.
I meant on the BFA changes, so shouldn't be using "now".
EDIT: Also theoretical sim DPS, while important, isn't as important as to what utility you bring.
Mmyah, but sometimes groups want the Insanity and sometimes groups want the brez. I swap between them and swap their specs too.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Leveling inscription was insanely easy. I wish Engineering was as easy. I'm at 394 for Engineering so far.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Leveling inscription was insanely easy. I wish Engineering was as easy. I'm at 394 for Engineering so far.
Draenor profession recipes are useable by all skill levels, so they represent an "easy" way to skill up to nearly 700, if not always the cheapest way. Engineering was pretty cheap though, since there's a recipe that just uses True Iron and Blackrock ore, and the game is flooded with that shit from garrisons.
So is there prereq I need to do Suramar with a boosted character? Khadagar is not mentioning it, not getting anything from the scout map at all. I'd like to actually get started since I do want to make a nightborne at some point.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
It is supposed to start on the scouting map as just another place you can visit. If not I know there were a few problems with it initially but I thought they had fixed them.
Especially when there are so many cool obtainable pet models you never see because of it, like the boss from Siege of Orgrimmar - it's always fun to rush at your enemy alongside a T-Rex made of lightning and anger.
Donnicton on
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Why the hell does WoW still have the "turtles get an on-demand 50% damage reduction for 12 seconds every minute, but bears can only do it when under 40% max health once every two minutes" divide on pet tanking abilities? The latter is objectively inferior.
Also, why don't carrion birds learn the ability to feed on corpses?
So is there prereq I need to do Suramar with a boosted character? Khadagar is not mentioning it, not getting anything from the scout map at all. I'd like to actually get started since I do want to make a nightborne at some point.
you might need to do the falling star arc first; normally you'd do that while leveling but on a boosted guy you probably didn't
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Posts
Yes, leadup events in game are already viewable for players. Basically Sargeras' sword stabbed deep enough to cause Azeroth to start bleeding her energy out, and this crystallizes into Azerite which both the Alliance and the Horde are at eachothers' throats to get a hold of because it's pretty damn powerful stuff.
Magni realizes that this is Azeroth's lifeblood and attempts to warn both sides that Azeroth is dying, but they both tell him to fuck off. So the expansion will mainly involve the overarching plot of him and Khadgar enlisting the PC's help yet again because the Alliance/Horde won't stop squabbling over the Azerite.
Is there info out about class changes coming in this next expansion? The usual overhaul of this or that system like talents?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
trying to minimise the impact of weapon item level, i wager
I thought the biggest issue was that casters got so much main stat from weapons, they just scaled with them so much harder. At least with weapon damage, you gain the benefit of all your AP / main stat AND the weapons damage. If they just get damage from AP then the damage on the weapon is completely wasted.
It would almost be like at that point, why have weapon damage? It's not like auto attacks have been a near non factor for most classes for a few expansions now.
By leaving the current status quo whereby primary stat is by stat weight almost solidly half as useful for casters as their best secondary stats.
are there more like this for other expansions? I've never seen this before
That's just outright not true, melee classes have nearly always scaled harder with weapon item level. Casters hate primary stat.
Luke warm boil more than anything with the players as they have forced War on us often to a confound Meh from the players
You are mixing up the two. Casters hate primary stat because they already have so much of it. Like, if you have 70k int 1 point of int is worth nearly half a melee class with 35k agi or str. So they value it based on how much they gain based on what they already have.
But their weapons gain SO much main stat on ilvl gain that they gain quite a bit from improving that. Also, they do not scale "horribly" with main stat. Just worse than secondaries. Gaining raw damage is never bad especially when you can gain like 2k int just by getting 5 weapon ilvls.
But the point was, it is the absurd int they get from weapons that MAKES their main stat trash. Which is why this fix is stupid, it further makes that less true for melee by removing something important from their weapons to make them less impactful, while allowing int users to still have something on their weapons completely rewrite their stat weights.
Donnicton had the right answer though. Apparently they like it that way.
Remember that when they gave everyone free weapon ilvl? Not a single pure caster got a damage bump to "compensate". That was because they got so much more out of the weapon increase. The classes who got the most were the melee classes who had little to no weapon damage abilities. So by making that be every melee class, you just further that gap.
Second, the good boy was confirmed as a store mount. Probably coming later on the month with the Chinese New Year celebration. There's also a video:
But I don't play a hunter. Everyone who does dreads it based on how it was during expansions I didn't play.
I just miss the days of the Rake being super powered.
decreased relative value of primary stat is just a gear inflation thing, and it's happened every expansion: % scalars steadily become more valuable than the next marginal point of attack/spell power
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
It is still early though for all this. They already made a large blanket adjustment to the damage values of skills (outside of other balancing, looked like everything was cut to 1/4 of it's scaling) so they are clearing taking this stat + ilvl squish as a time to readjust everything. That pretty much opens the door to completely redoing how everything works. So everything we know may be wrong as of right now.
More likely is them trying to make main stat and hence, ilvl more important and trying to make Warforged weapons less important. And Demon Blades has been a.....polarizing talent, so don't see them moving to that direction.
I mean it's just going back to how it was in Wrath with assigned pet families. I think it's fine. People are going to kvetch that they can't bring literally any pet for any activity.
The primary divide is between people who see their hunter pet as cosmetic and those who see them as a tool.
This change shits on those who see them as cosmetic. Though with heroism and brez being tied to specific pets they were already dealing with that anyway I guess.
Yeah, I'm like "well, if you don't bring a pet that can BRez or has Lust you are kinda not being as useful as you could be so...", but is my non-Hunter point of view. Also, in the BFA changes Blizz changed Moths from Ferocity to Cunning because lol you aren't getting BL and a Brez on the same pet.
But, all pet damage is now normalized, so you will just run a Tenacity pet 100% of the time unless the group lacks lust since the extra survability for you is that useful for pushing M+ and in Raids, and given that Quilens were changed to Tenacity and have a Brez, guess what. That or a Spirit Beast given all the Brez normalization and is the next more useful pet.
The bottom right talent in the bm tree actually makes ferocity do more dps, and it is occasionally a viable choice depending on gear. I used it for, like, a week, based on sims.
I meant on the BFA changes, so shouldn't be using "now".
EDIT: Also theoretical sim DPS, while important, isn't as important as to what utility you bring.
I mean as you point out pets have never actually been just cosmetic, it was just easier to disregard utility in Legion. People who are playing at less than optimal utility will probably continue to do so.
Mmyah, but sometimes groups want the Insanity and sometimes groups want the brez. I swap between them and swap their specs too.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Draenor profession recipes are useable by all skill levels, so they represent an "easy" way to skill up to nearly 700, if not always the cheapest way. Engineering was pretty cheap though, since there's a recipe that just uses True Iron and Blackrock ore, and the game is flooded with that shit from garrisons.
Also, why don't carrion birds learn the ability to feed on corpses?
you might need to do the falling star arc first; normally you'd do that while leveling but on a boosted guy you probably didn't
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Since my Night Elf rogue did all the Nightborn story and is exalted it counts if I want to make a nightborn?