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All them devs be hatin' on the Wii, yo

ArugulaZArugulaZ Registered User regular
edited May 2007 in Games and Technology
I don't get it. The Nintendo Wii has been the fastest selling of the three next-generation consoles, stomping the Playstation 3 in all territories and quickly catching up to the Xbox 360. You would think that developers would take this as a hint to shift development to that system, but no... all the original properties are coming to the other two consoles, while the Wii is forced to settle for the digital equivalent of table scraps; ports of games we've already played on the Playstation 2 and Xbox with hastily tacked-on Wiimote functionality. Out of all the game companies releasing titles for the Nintendo Wii, only two seem committed to making games especially designed for the system, Konami and Ubisoft. Konami's still hard at work on games like Dewy's Adventure, but Ubisoft seems to have petered out early after releasing Red Steel and Rayman: Raving Rabbids.

What's the cause of this unfortunate trend? Is it illustrative of the lack of vision that many development teams have? Are game designers so used to the status quo of pushing hardware to its visual limits that they're incapable of thinking outside the box? Or is this an inside job to doom the Wii so big, bloated companies like EA can continue to make big, bloated software for big, bloated consoles like the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360? Inquiring minds want to know.

JR

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ArugulaZ on
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Posts

  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Nintendo, IMO, has been a hard company to bring 3rd party titles to for a long time.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • NORNOR Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Nintendo is an intimidating motherfucker, Yo!

    NOR on
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  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Nintendo, IMO, has been a hard company to bring 3rd party titles to for a long time.

    Essentially because the third parties compete and don't do too well against the first party games, correct? I believe someone explained it as such in another thread. Most people do buy the Nintendo consoles for the Nintendo games, it would seem. So while it is doing extremely well, they're vary due to lessons learned in the past, perhaps. They're afraid their games won't sell nearly as much, due to competing with Nintendo, than they would on another system. It may also have to do with the audience. Perhaps some developers are just comfortable with the more "adult-themed" games. Not that I'm saying Nintendo is "kiddy," but they have and perhaps do still have that image (especially with how many casual, perhaps even generally non-gamers, are picking up the system?).

    Dashui on
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  • Topher587Topher587 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Third party developers have to compete with consistent releases of Triple-A Nintendo first party titles like your Marios and Zeldas and Metroids and the like. It's just not as easy being a third party publisher when the first party games are always going to outsell your releases. When you put Dewy's Adventure against Mario Galaxy, you pick Mario Galaxy. When you put Red Steel against Zelda, you pick Zelda.

    Topher587 on
  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Topher587 wrote: »
    Third party developers have to compete with consistent releases of Triple-A Nintendo first party titles like your Marios and Zeldas and Metroids and the like. It's just not as easy being a third party publisher when the first party games are always going to outsell your releases. When you put Dewy's Adventure against Mario Galaxy, you pick Mario Galaxy. When you put Red Steel against Zelda, you pick Zelda.

    Indeed. There is also the newness factor, though, which was heavily multiplied for the Wii. With, say, the 360, you had people designing games almost as soon as the dev kits were available. Same with the PS3. With the wii, everyone thought it'd be a flop until E3, at which point they started scrambling.

    yalborap on
  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Topher587 wrote: »
    When you put Red Steel against Zelda, you pick Zelda.

    I think, however, that developers will "take" 900k+ sales of a relatively unknown property. The main reason I think we're not seeing as much is that it takes time to allocate resources properly.

    mynameisguido on
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  • EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    It may have just a little something to do with having to completely reprogram any ports for use with the motion controls, or trying to think of new games to make utilizing it without being niche or really cliche.

    EvilBadman on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Once again:

    Before E3 2006, all third parties knew about the Wii was that it was underpowered. Most of them weren't interested.

    After E3, they learned about the motion control, and discovered it could actually be fun.

    So most of them are playing catch-up. It actually takes some time to make games, y'know.

    cloudeagle on
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  • DravalenDravalen Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    It takes at least a year to develop a quality title, I don't think that most dev houses knew the wii was going to take off as well as it had. I know EA is doing a big shift from PS3->Wii, I'm sure there's other stuff in the pipeline, it just takes time.

    Dravalen on
  • GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    what you talkin 'bout foo?

    every other week there's talk about an exclusive wii game from some company. that said, they never seem to really say "this is that game! ta da!!" but i expect that to change at this year's E3/TGS. there's plenty of wii exclusives, its just that many are tentative/too early in development to label as anything other than "wii game for second half of 2007/sometime 2008"

    Guek on
  • BaronVonSnakPakBaronVonSnakPak Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    i like how he mentions EA as a bad guy, but so far theyve had some of the best controlling games for the wii.

    BaronVonSnakPak on
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  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Dravalen wrote: »
    It takes at least a year to develop a quality title, I don't think that most dev houses knew the wii was going to take off as well as it had. I know EA is doing a big shift from PS3->Wii, I'm sure there's other stuff in the pipeline, it just takes time.

    This was pretty much what I was going to say, but said a lot nicer than the way I was going to say it, so I'll just quote it.

    Marty81 on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited May 2007
    Marty81 wrote: »
    Dravalen wrote: »
    It takes at least a year to develop a quality title, I don't think that most dev houses knew the wii was going to take off as well as it had. I know EA is doing a big shift from PS3->Wii, I'm sure there's other stuff in the pipeline, it just takes time.

    This was pretty much what I was going to say, but said a lot nicer than the way I was going to say it, so I'll just quote it.

    I'm pretty sure I was going to insult his dog.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there still was a relatively similar situation this time next year though. It takes awhile for inertia to shift, and the real system seller blockbuster titles tend to be in development for quite a bit more than a year.

    Aroduc on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Sega has been very, very kind to the Wii.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    i like how he mentions EA as a bad guy, but so far theyve had some of the best controlling games for the wii.

    And probably the most support out of 3rd party publishers.

    AbsoluteZero on
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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yup, the same old "We can't compete with Nintendo's AAA titles, /cry".

    To which the general reply has always been "Well then, make better games assholes".

    The Wolfman on
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  • ArugulaZArugulaZ Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Absolute Zero: And one of the companies responsible for pumping out PS2 ports with waggle in them.

    ArugulaZ on
    JR

    Same old site, great new look! Check out The Gameroom Blitz at:
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  • commathecommathe Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Someone, anyone, should start making games for use with the classic controller. Its so much greater than the nunchuck.

    commathe on
  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    ArugulaZ wrote: »
    Absolute Zero: And one of the companies responsible for pumping out PS2 ports with waggle in them.

    Nah, Ubisoft is a worse offender there.

    EA and Sega have really been taking the most advantage of the Wii so far, and I think Activision and Ubisoft did as well, but used ports originally to test the waters. At launch, EA pushed out so many titles, which were all more bland than they were bad.

    If the Wii's install base continues to grow at this pace until the end of the year at least, I think we'll be seeing some incredible devotion from those four developers, as well as Capcom, Konami, and maybe even Midway.

    HadjiQuest on
  • DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Third party developers have to compete with consistent releases of Triple-A Nintendo first party titles like your Marios and Zeldas and Metroids and the like. It's just not as easy being a third party publisher when the first party games are always going to outsell your releases. When you put Dewy's Adventure against Mario Galaxy, you pick Mario Galaxy. When you put Red Steel against Zelda, you pick Zelda.

    Then they should try to make better games. During the "gamecube days" third party games hardly scratched the surface of the gamecubes graphical capabilities (except Factor 5 with their Star Wars Games and Resident Evil 4). The Gamecube could do shaders and other miracles, just not many developers bothered to use these features (see the Splinter Cell games) It just surprises me -the Wii isn't that different from the Gamecube HW- that companies still manage to release games which look worse than GC first gen. Maybe the reason is that they want to jump on the "Wii is selling well bandwagon", but hadn't any games in development.

    Dratatoo on
  • QorzmQorzm Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Didn't EA shift over focus from the PS3 to the Wii? That's very fucking significant.

    Qorzm on
  • elkataselkatas Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Qorzm wrote: »
    Didn't EA shift over focus from the PS3 to the Wii? That's very fucking significant.

    Yeah, they did move. TakeTwo did same thing, and Ubisoft has reported that both Red Steel and Raving Rabbids have sold 1 million copies worldwide.

    elkatas on
    Hypnotically inclined.
  • ArugulaZArugulaZ Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Wait, are we talking Take-Two here, or Rockstar specifically? If it's the latter, that really would be significant.

    ArugulaZ on
    JR

    Same old site, great new look! Check out The Gameroom Blitz at:
    http://www.lakupo.com/grblitz
  • ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I could of sworn I heard there was a shortage of dev kits for awhile there.

    http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157321

    ya here. It seems the Indie developers were left out in the cold. I would imagine this situation has changed, but the fact remains. The Wii needs awesome 3rd party support if they are really going to hit it big. The market is clearly there, especially the casual market.

    I predict the Wii in 1 year. May 5th 2008 will have some smash hits that are completely unexpected.

    Viscountalpha on
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Aren't Nintendo still being uncocoperative when it comes to getting stuff in the hands of 3rd party developers, like details of the online system etc.

    Rook on
  • JorilJoril BelgiumRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Much easier to make the so-called "next-gen graphics" then it is to make something that utilises the wii-remote to it's fullest.

    I think we'll have to wait for nintendo to show all the other devs "the way".
    Metroid Prime 3 should become the mother of all FPS's on the Wii.

    Joril on
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  • GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    ArugulaZ wrote: »
    Absolute Zero: And one of the companies responsible for pumping out PS2 ports with waggle in them.

    Nah, Ubisoft is a worse offender there.

    EA and Sega have really been taking the most advantage of the Wii so far, and I think Activision and Ubisoft did as well, but used ports originally to test the waters. At launch, EA pushed out so many titles, which were all more bland than they were bad.

    If the Wii's install base continues to grow at this pace until the end of the year at least, I think we'll be seeing some incredible devotion from those four developers, as well as Capcom, Konami, and maybe even Midway.
    But will THQ ever be on board? That's all I really want to know

    Guek on
  • kaz67kaz67 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I think a big part of it is developers feel they need to utilize the remote in all of their games for it. Personally I hope it becomes more like the DS where for the most part developers seemed to have realized they don't need to tack on touch screen elements to make a good game.

    kaz67 on
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Joril wrote: »
    Much easier to make the so-called "next-gen graphics" then it is to make something that utilises the wii-remote to it's fullest.

    Yeah, I'm fairly sure it's only a matter of time before people realise this. Hopefully more developers will start recruiting waggleists and start firing a few of those artists and engine coders that are just wasting their time trying to push out slightly higher res textures and other stuff that people just don't really care about or notice. The good news is, it should be fairly quick for Universitys running game design courses etc to just start adding some modules that can really stretch their students and then the trickle through should to actual talent that devs could hire.

    Rook on
  • bongibongi regular
    edited May 2007
    aren't most of the major developers/publishers already on-board?

    bongi on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Eidos have specifically said they are not going to be working on the PS3 for the near future.

    I think come E3, there is going to be many, many, more Wii projects shown.

    LewieP on
  • ben0207ben0207 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Joril wrote: »
    Much easier to make the so-called "next-gen graphics" then it is to make something that utilises the wii-remote to it's fullest.

    I think we'll have to wait for nintendo to show all the other devs "the way".
    Metroid Prime 3 should become the mother of all FPS's on the Wii.

    If it was an FPS, I suppose.

    ben0207 on
  • thunderclumpthunderclump Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    There's a recent quote from Nintendo about how it should set the standard for FPS controls on the Wii.

    So, yeah. It's an FPS style game if Nintendo say it is.

    thunderclump on
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  • GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Ditto on what loads of others have said, it takes time to make games and the game companies got caught with their pants down thinking that the Wii would be a failure whilst the PS3 would be the success. My how the worm has turned.

    We probably won't start seeing good 3rd party Wii games until next year.

    What i'm interested in is if R* decide to make a Wii specific version of GTA. That'd be great, i'd love to be able to bludgen people to death with the wiimote... Well, ingame anyway.

    GrimReaper on
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  • liquidloganliquidlogan Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Honestly, I fail to understand how one can argue that it is Nintendo's strong franchises which keep 3rd parties away. That is absolute rubbish. If Nintendo has all these stellar first-party titles and (presumably, but I think it holds true) that Microsoft and Sony have a balance between 1st and 3rd party titles, there is nothing to say that other 3rd party titles on the 360/PS3 (along with 1st party titles) wouldn't keep developers away. Games like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Halo, as well as newer Franchises like God of War and Gears of War are every bit on par in quality and sales as any 1st party Nintendo franchise and yet 360 (and to a lesser extent PS3) has not had a significant dip in 3rd party support.

    I think the answer lies in the relative new concept that the Wii brings to games. It has a new controller and that means games need to be made in different ways. The fact of the matter is that porting games over to Wii from the 360 and PS3 is not a simple matter of PS2/Xbox -> Gamecube. There are controller factors which are not insignificant, and also the time it takes to re-do the graphics. Certainly the graphics capabilities which are similar to last-gen make developing for it (perhaps) easier, but there are still hurdles to overcome, much like with the DS. Certainly the console will pick up speed, but I sincerely doubt it will ever have a release calendar of 3rd party games the same way the 360 does.

    liquidlogan on
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I think it's going to be strikingly similar to the situation with the DS, where a lot of developers simply had no idea what to do with that second screen (the second screen shows... our company logo!), and used the stylus only to select options on the start menu.

    It took a little while before people could figure out how to make it all work together to be a different experience. However the DS dominates in sales, so people making handheld games can cater to it as their biggest market. The Wii is doing better than the PS3 but still doesn't have the install base that the 360 has yet, so developers have to make a game that controls one way for the PS360, and then see if they can come up with something inventive/clever for the Wii.

    This will (hopefully) change with the mind-boggling demand and sales of the Wii, but I don't think it's something many devs expected prior to launch.

    Brolo on
  • BigDesBigDes Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Guek wrote: »
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    ArugulaZ wrote: »
    Absolute Zero: And one of the companies responsible for pumping out PS2 ports with waggle in them.

    Nah, Ubisoft is a worse offender there.

    EA and Sega have really been taking the most advantage of the Wii so far, and I think Activision and Ubisoft did as well, but used ports originally to test the waters. At launch, EA pushed out so many titles, which were all more bland than they were bad.

    If the Wii's install base continues to grow at this pace until the end of the year at least, I think we'll be seeing some incredible devotion from those four developers, as well as Capcom, Konami, and maybe even Midway.
    But will THQ ever be on board? That's all I really want to know

    Manhunt 2 is coming to the Wii.

    BigDes on
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  • SamuelSamuel Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    This can only spell one thing


    tehdoomed.jpg

    Samuel on
  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Samuel wrote: »
    This can only spell one thing


    tehdoomed.jpg

    Needs some form of money-printing thing going on.

    yalborap on
  • mrcheesypantsmrcheesypants Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Samuel wrote: »
    This can only spell one thing


    tehdoomed.jpg

    Why is it that every time miyamoto smiles in any photoshop I can't resist laughing?

    mrcheesypants on
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