Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

New California Declares Independence From California For Economic Anxiety Reasons

Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho HoDisconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
Anybody remember the whole State of Jefferson silliness a few years back?

Now they're at it again, but this time...
With the reading of their own version of a Declaration of Independence, founders of the state of New California took the first steps to what they hope will eventually lead to statehood. CBS Sacramento reports they don't want to leave the United States, just California.

"Well, it's been ungovernable for a long time. High taxes, education, you name it, and we're rated around 48th or 50th from a business climate and standpoint in California," said founder Robert Paul Preston.

The state of New California would incorporate most of the state's rural counties, leaving the urban coastal counties to the current state of California.

"There's something wrong when you have a rural county such as this one, and you go down to Orange County which is mostly urban, and it has the same set of problems, and it happens because of how the state is being governed and taxed," Preston said.

The map they've drawn up is something special. It reads like a Who's Who of red counties vs blue counties. So, not obvious at all.


For anybody who was wondering what East California would look like from the Kim Wilde song, this is it!

«13

Posts

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    They realize they have to pay for things, right?

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    Gnome-InterruptusFeralMvrckKristmas Kthulhu
  • MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They realize they have to pay for things, right?

    They want to be yet another red welfare state.

    SleepQuidShadowfireMrVyngaarddispatch.oAtomikaMatevKamarHavelock2.0Man in the MistsGnome-InterruptusGennenalyse RuebentynicPhoenix-DJohnny ChopsockyShortyWraith260brynhrtmnNiryaTicaldfjamLawndartFeralDoctorArchVegemyteshrykeIncenjucarjungleroomxAimSkeithMegaMekAistanMvrckMaximumthatassemblyguyTetraNitroCubaneRetabaLoserForHireXKristmas KthulhuYoutubejkylefultonKarozkimeHakkekageTOGSolidemp123
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Fucking morons.

    I'm from Butte County, there are so many college towns/cities you'd have to carve away every populous area to get what these fucking morons want.

    It just goes to show that if you get far enough outside of a population dense area you can always find some dipshits willing to do stupid things. Though I m pretty sure no one really wants to be in this new derpy state.


    Thing is, I'm not even opposed to the idea that north and south need different governments. The interests of southern California often run contrary to that of northern California. I could see an honest split below the elbow that would benefit everyone in some way. I just don't think we have a government capable of not fucking it up and the state constitution would make Lovecrafts Great Old Ones cry.

    CelestialBadger
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    "New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?

    I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    Havelock2.0
  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    I haven't lived in Cali in a very long time, but North/South always made more sense to me. They really do feel like two separate states.

    Steam: kaylesolo1
    3DS: 1521-4165-5907
    PS3: KayleSolo
    Live: Kayle Solo
    WiiU: KayleSolo
    Kayne Red RobeCelestialBadger
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    they've even got a flag made up:

    41pDKpXKN6L._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg

    dispatch.oFencingsaxJoolanderRaiden333GONG-00Mild ConfusionMan in the MistsBeNarwhalnever dieHavelock2.0ShadowfireAridholMirroTicaldfjamyossarian_livesLawndartFeralemnmnmeRchanenVegemyteshrykeTNTrooperIncenjucar14357monikerPolaritieUnluckySkeithHappylilElfMegaMekMvrckthatassemblyguyTetraNitroCubaneHefflingNytewarriorEtiowsaKadokenKristmas KthulhuKarozmanwiththemachinegunkimeArmorocBloodySlothwebguy20HakkekageTOGSolidRiusHonkYallemp123
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    I haven't lived in Cali in a very long time, but North/South always made more sense to me. They really do feel like two separate states.
    I'd make the cutoff point the Bay Area, the north side, as the furthest-north point of "South California. Because seriously north of the Bay Area is basically South Oregon. Forests and mountains for days. May as well be a separate place.

    But the Bay Area, valley, and southern California are what people really think of as far as "what is California?"

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    Capt HowdyKayne Red Robe
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    A bunch of liberals working in California will move into New California if they successfully pull off the pro-business, low tax policies they dream about. Then they'll have to make New New California secede from New California.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Raiden333Kayne Red RobeIncenjucarYoutubeBloodySlothemp123
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Henroid wrote: »
    "New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?

    I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.

    Here is a quick guide:

    Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.

    I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
    DoodmannFencingsaxHavelock2.0Gennenalyse RuebenPreacherTicaldfjamFeralDoctorArchshrykeIncenjucarMegaMekAistanthatassemblyguyKristmas KthulhujkylefultonmanwiththemachinegunkimeHakkekageTOGSolidemp123
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    "New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?

    I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.

    Here is a quick guide:

    Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.

    I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.

    No, they'd talk about how the water is all theirs and try to charge a ridiculous amount of money for it.

    SleepFencingsaxschussfightinfilipinoIncenjucarSkeithKaroz
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    "New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?

    I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.

    Here is a quick guide:

    Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.

    I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.
    Yeah. In the imaginary world where this actually goes through, New California just becomes an example of anti-tax ideals not working, and it becomes a state that needs constant federal aid. Regular California would have a better financial portfolio but it would still spend a lot of that money subsidizing portions of the country as it does now anyway.

    An exit of California as a whole state would result in a California taking care of itself but Christ the USA would hurt for it. Those red states you mentioned being the ones to feel it the most. For as many problems as California has with its budget, it still manages to do its part carrying the USA, and if it was able to sever those connections it would rebound like a motherfucker.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    "New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?

    I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.

    Here is a quick guide:

    Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.

    I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.

    No, they'd talk about how the water is all theirs and try to charge a ridiculous amount of money for it.
    Nestle owns all the water so they've been beaten to the punch. Capitalism strikes again.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    Youtube
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    e: Even if the question is interesting, this is D&D, so no re-orienting. Nevermind.

    Jragghen on
  • PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    I've brought this up before, but one of the major issues with splitting the state in any which way direction is water. There's been a fuckton of money spent on two massive projects, one federal, one state, that shift the water all the over the state in a myriad number of ways, but mostly from the north and sierras where it rains/snows to the central valley/ south where it doesn't. It's ended up being one of the largest civil engineering undertakings in human history.

    And they both have to serve multiple goals. Drinking water for urban southern California, farm water for the valley, flood protection for the everyone along the main rivers, hydropower for the grid. And everyone bitches about the part that fucks them over but don't want to get rid of the parts that protects them.

    There's also a cluster fuck of water rights issues that depend on what was law when you first started getting your water and how long you've maintained those rights. LA gets water from way the hell up in Owens valley in the Sierras because they don't get enough rain so they went out and bought a valley (more or less) in the mountains to secure a reliable source. San Francisco gets water from Hetch Hetchy, also in the Sierras, because even though they probably have enough rain in and around the Bay area some private company bought up all the water rights around the city back in the day to gouge prices, and the city said "well fuck all y'all" and went and built their own supply on the other side of the state. Two major cities in California pumping water hundreds of miles away.

    The only way this vaguely works (for whatever value of work you apply to the current situation) is legal precedent, institutional inertia, and the state government being able to rule by more or less fiat when it gets down to it. You split that into two or more states with the water in one state and the customers in the other and there's no way in hell you're ever going to get it to work. Lawsuits for daaaaaays. Let alone what happens if New California tries to cut off old California for whatever reason, legal or not.

    DoodmannHenroidHavelock2.0MatevFeral
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Lawsuits for years, more like.

    As in Jarndyce v Jarndyce, but orders of magnitude larger.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    Pellaeon
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    "New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?

    I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.

    Here is a quick guide:

    Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.

    I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.
    Yeah. In the imaginary world where this actually goes through, New California just becomes an example of anti-tax ideals not working, and it becomes a state that needs constant federal aid. Regular California would have a better financial portfolio but it would still spend a lot of that money subsidizing portions of the country as it does now anyway.

    An exit of California as a whole state would result in a California taking care of itself but Christ the USA would hurt for it. Those red states you mentioned being the ones to feel it the most. For as many problems as California has with its budget, it still manages to do its part carrying the USA, and if it was able to sever those connections it would rebound like a motherfucker.

    I think they are also wildly overestimating how "red" that new state be if they are going off the map in the original post.

    FencingsaxKayne Red Robe
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    If red California managed to become a state before Puerto Rico, I would probably lose it.

    SleepHenroidQuidJragghenGennenalyse RuebenA Kobold's KoboldMatevJohnny ChopsockyShadowfireNo-QuarterDavid WalgasTofystedethDoctorArchshrykeKetBraVegemyteWACriminalAimSkeithMvrckthatassemblyguyTetraNitroCubaneHefflingKristmas KthulhuEncKarozkimeHakkekage
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    If red California managed to become a state before Puerto Rico, I would probably lose it.

    That’s my main thought on this. It’d be utter bullshit to give this group state recognition but not PR and DC.

    dispatch.oGnome-InterruptusNo-QuarterMan in the MistsTicaldfjamKetBraMegaMekthatassemblyguykimeMr Ray
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    "New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?

    I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.

    Here is a quick guide:

    Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.

    I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.

    No, they'd talk about how the water is all theirs and try to charge a ridiculous amount of money for it.
    Nestle owns all the water so they've been beaten to the punch. Capitalism strikes again.

    I've seen that Bond movie.

    HenroidFencingsaxTicaldfjamshrykeHybridKristmas Kthulhu
  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    "New California" is the red / rural counties right? Because while they may have the agriculture part of the economy, they don't have the rest. Plus, Jesus have they forgotten about the whole drought issue?

    I've been in favor of a California exit, as a whole, from the USA. But splitting California is dumb as fuck.

    Here is a quick guide:

    Is someone in the US talking about seceding? If so, they are red/rural counties.

    I'd be inclined to say fuck it and let them leave, but they'd just drop taxes to zero and siphon money away from us, anyway.

    I only ever hear about the Cascadian independence thing up in WA/OR from young liberal leftist types. Its mostly a joke up in this next of the woods, but the idea of leaving the problems of the US behind because your area is doing better/worse than average isn't just confined to the right.

    I like children. Provided they go home with their parents at the end of the day.
  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    I still see Jefferson banners and bumper stickers all over here up in the foothills east of Sacramento. These chucklefucks are at it again?

    edit: of course the proponent pushing this is a bitcoin investor

    Havelock2.0 on
    HAVELOCK2.0! NEW LOOK, SAME TASTE!
    shryke
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Henroid wrote: »
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    I haven't lived in Cali in a very long time, but North/South always made more sense to me. They really do feel like two separate states.
    I'd make the cutoff point the Bay Area, the north side, as the furthest-north point of "South California. Because seriously north of the Bay Area is basically South Oregon. Forests and mountains for days. May as well be a separate place.

    But the Bay Area, valley, and southern California are what people really think of as far as "what is California?"

    No fuck that, that's like telling the northern part of the state to fuck off and die. In this stupid hypothetical where CA gets divided into north and south, north california gets the full extended bay area, south california gets the LA metro area. The bay area is the core of the northern californian economy. Doesn't matter that it's close to the middle of the state physically, dividing things up that that way makes about as much sense as the way european colonial powers arbitrarily drew borders for the former colony territories when the colonial age ended and all the bad shit that arose from that.

    Also don't give these fucking separatist morons any air time, they're not worth the brain cells.

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
    JragghenHavelock2.0dispatch.oFeloniousmozFeralSleepSkeithMaximumCelestialBadger
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Paranoiac Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    I haven't lived in Cali in a very long time, but North/South always made more sense to me. They really do feel like two separate states.
    I'd make the cutoff point the Bay Area, the north side, as the furthest-north point of "South California. Because seriously north of the Bay Area is basically South Oregon. Forests and mountains for days. May as well be a separate place.

    But the Bay Area, valley, and southern California are what people really think of as far as "what is California?"

    You're really minimizing how much different the Bay Area is from Southern California. Also there's no way you get a sustainable state without a metro.

    VishNubSleep
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    I haven't lived in Cali in a very long time, but North/South always made more sense to me. They really do feel like two separate states.
    I'd make the cutoff point the Bay Area, the north side, as the furthest-north point of "South California. Because seriously north of the Bay Area is basically South Oregon. Forests and mountains for days. May as well be a separate place.

    But the Bay Area, valley, and southern California are what people really think of as far as "what is California?"

    You're really minimizing how much different the Bay Area is from Southern California. Also there's no way you get a sustainable state without a metro.

    Redding is larger than Cheyenne.

    Which is where I get into "why the hell is Wyoming still a state" but that's neither here nor there.

    Kayne Red RobeshrykeSpoit
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Capt Howdy wrote: »
    I haven't lived in Cali in a very long time, but North/South always made more sense to me. They really do feel like two separate states.
    I'd make the cutoff point the Bay Area, the north side, as the furthest-north point of "South California. Because seriously north of the Bay Area is basically South Oregon. Forests and mountains for days. May as well be a separate place.

    But the Bay Area, valley, and southern California are what people really think of as far as "what is California?"

    You're really minimizing how much different the Bay Area is from Southern California. Also there's no way you get a sustainable state without a metro.

    Yeah, the split is just south of Monterey, where there's a bunch of nothing until you get to ~Santa Barbara.



    As others have said, the biggest issue in splitting CA (aside from taxes and such) is the water rights problem. It is very disconcerting to be five hours from LA and see "property of LADWP" signs everywhere.

    Steam = VishnuOwnz
    Dota2 = Glitchmo
    schussGiggles_Funsworth
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Let's all calm down about the ridiculous bullshit not actually happening

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    Mr KhanFeloniousmozGiggles_FunsworthshrykeSleepMaximumMegaMekGaddezKristmas KthulhuJoolander
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Hey man I'm a Bay Area native and I refuse to get put in the basket with the crazies.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Hey man I'm a Bay Area native and I refuse to get put in the basket with the crazies.

    I moved here yesterday.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    Kristmas Kthulhu
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Talks of secession are generally sparked and fanned by pro-Russian entities, or at least that one with the six states was.

    We do not want to split the red side of the population off away from us. We want to keep them with us so the blue population can overwhelm and silence their idiocy/evil.

    camo_sig2.png
    PSN: AuthorFrost
    mageofstorm.png
    BahamutZEROGiggles_FunsworthIncenjucarSleepCelestialBadgerkime
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Hey man I'm a Bay Area native and I refuse to get put in the basket with the crazies.

    it may shock you to learn that the southern half of the state ALSO has rural crazy people

    BahamutZERO.gif
    Havelock2.0Kayne Red RobeGiggles_FunsworthIncenjucarKristmas KthulhuYoutubeJoolander
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Hey man I'm a Bay Area native and I refuse to get put in the basket with the crazies.

    it may shock you to learn that the southern half of the state ALSO has rural crazy people

    And orange county.

    Steam = VishnuOwnz
    Dota2 = Glitchmo
    HenroidJragghenKayne Red Robe
  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Hey man I'm a Bay Area native and I refuse to get put in the basket with the crazies.

    it may shock you to learn that the southern half of the state ALSO has rural crazy people

    San Bernardino county comes to mind

    HAVELOCK2.0! NEW LOOK, SAME TASTE!
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    VishNub wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Hey man I'm a Bay Area native and I refuse to get put in the basket with the crazies.

    it may shock you to learn that the southern half of the state ALSO has rural crazy people

    And orange county.
    This just became my favorite thread of the day.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    I live in the Antelope Valley, north-east of Los Angeles, Apparently it is famous for meth labs and neo-Nazis. "King Rex" rules here and he's basically Trump on a local scale except intelligent.

    Red as fuck.

    Madican on
    camo_sig2.png
    PSN: AuthorFrost
    mageofstorm.png
    DoodmannHavelock2.0
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I guess San Diego is the capital of New Cali?

    Making New Cali a purplish state afterall

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    No seriously, I don't even know where is good to eat or what there is to do.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    Kristmas Kthulhu
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    Talks of secession are generally sparked and fanned by pro-Russian entities, or at least that one with the six states was.

    We do not want to split the red side of the population off away from us. We want to keep them with us so the blue population can overwhelm and silence their idiocy/evil.

    Honestly this plan doesn't even seem to do what the founders want. The state they are trying to carve off is too big. San Diego + other towns make the state blue.

    So sure! I'm all for giving democrats 1 or 2 more senators.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    Giggles_Funsworth
  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    I live in the Antelope Valley, north-east of Los Angeles, Apparently it is famous for meth labs and neo-Nazis. "King Rex" rules here and he's basically Trump on a local scale except intelligent.

    Red as fuck.

    I used to work as a Firefighter in Calaveras county. It's the exact same way. Meth labs and wannabe rednecks.

    HAVELOCK2.0! NEW LOOK, SAME TASTE!
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    I've long speculated that we'll never get PR or DC as a state without a Republican counterbalance. Could this be the answer to this, especially if it looks Red but actually turns out purple or blue?

    Official member of the Grilling Gentry
    "Brevity is the soul of getting your shit read." - Tube
    Rarely-updated Collecting blog
    He/Him
«13
Sign In or Register to comment.