High Elves get access to Lothern Sea Guard pretty fast, which are honestly easy mode as far as micromanagement is concerned. They're great archers who are also decent spearmen once the lines meet.
Also, don't feel like you have to go after other high elves unless they're aggressive. It's not a traditional war game in the sense of "whoever is next to me has to die". If they're the same race as you, they probably think you're ok and will join up with you voluntarily at some point, especially if you've been knocking the shit out of people that they hate. You can unite most of Ulthuan through diplomacy, with a few stragglers left over.
+1
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Oh I wasn’t just attacking everyone willy nilly. There was just a particular HE faction that hated me and declared war and by all rights should be dead but like I said I’m real bad at the actual combat. And that was the majority of my combats.
But this is all great advice, thanks for sharing. I think I’ll probably restart my current campaign, or maybe try things with Teclis. But I’m a little hesitant to throw magic into the mix since I’m quite the nub.
My early armies as Tyrion were always , Tyrion, his starting units and then just spearmen and archers. Generally I had two units more of spearmen than archers.
Group the archers in to one group then when the enemy gets in range select all of your archer units to shoot at one of theirs. You'll be able to focus down individual units in one or two volleys and then move on to the next.
0
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited May 2018
Also I was kinda hesitant about the sea guard because I was concerned they would just be not that great at anything, but it sounds like what I should be doing is slowly replacing spearmen with sea guard to get more ranged coverage and still have a reasonable line to take charges and protect squishy units.
Also, I understand that there are Unit variants (e.g., sea guard without and with shields). I’m assuming I get these upgrades through different buildings and/or tech advancements?
But I’m a little hesitant to throw magic into the mix since I’m quite the nub.
Oh it's so worth it, and if you're afraid of micro just don't bother with the buffs and put all skill points into big AOE spells - they can lay total waste to a lot of armies. Mages are a game changer.
Also I was kinda hesitant about the sea guard because I was concerned they would just be not that great at anything, but it sounds like what I should be doing is slowly replacing spearmen with sea guard to get more ranged coverage and still have a reasonable line to take charges and protect squishy units.
Also, I understand that there are Unit variants (e.g., sea guard without and with shields). I’m assuming I get these upgrades through different buildings and/or tech advancements?
You should be able to hover over the building that builds them, and see what tech buildings you need. Some things that are useful to know (mostly general stuff):
Shields are good against archers. If you are facing a lot of archers, make sure you have some shield infantry to tank their fire. You usually want a good chunk of your forces to be these sorts of guys to tank enemy infantry, too.
Greatweapons are good damage against infantry (but lack shields). Your swordmasters and white lions are these guys. Use them to punch into the enemy infantry and collapse a flank or the centre.
Polarms/spears are better against monsters/cavalry/chariots/big things. These guys will often work best on your flanks, protecting against enemy cav, or in reserve, to push against monstrous units, dragons, etc. (and also to protect your archers/artillery from cav in your backline)
Cavalry come in different flavours, but will usually give you an indication as to what they're best at. All of them are good for chasing down routing units to prevent them from returning, but light cav are best. Often, you will want to use them to harass enemy artillery/skirmishers, as well. Finally, a rear/flank cavalry charge on enemy infantry engaged on your infantry can buckle a flank for you.
High elves don't have dwarf-tier artillery, but their bolt throwers get the job done. Make sure your views form them aren't obstructed, and make sure to have some reserves to protect them from cav.
Your heroes/lords buff nearby units morale, so put them where the fighting is thickest, if you need to hold the line.
Something to keep in mind as the campaign progresses, is that you don't usually want to just fill your armies with the hottest newest shit, because all infantry/cav/etc. are not made equal, they all excel at different things.
If you find yourself feeling kind of rushed by the vortex stuff, putting the campaign onto easy still lets you have some decent battle challenges but essentially means that the AI is going to stop really trying to win.
This is a good point, while there are a few rare cases where there are direct unambiguous upgrades (usually an armor or shield upgrade like archers —> archers (light armor)) where the whole statline is exactly the same except for armor or a shield and the only reason you would use the lesser unit is if you want to save upkeep) for the most part upgrading the tech tree gives you diversity and options, not necessarily better units. There are reasons you may want to use things like spearmen or reavers in the end game for specific roles even after unlocking higher tier units
Also make a habit of checking stat lines because some things that might look like direct upgrades are really sidegrades. Like Reaver archers aren’t just reavers with bows, they give up some charge bonus and a bit of melee defense.
Oh I wasn’t just attacking everyone willy nilly. There was just a particular HE faction that hated me and declared war and by all rights should be dead but like I said I’m real bad at the actual combat. And that was the majority of my combats.
But this is all great advice, thanks for sharing. I think I’ll probably restart my current campaign, or maybe try things with Teclis. But I’m a little hesitant to throw magic into the mix since I’m quite the nub.
Magic isn't too hard to use, though Teclis's start is kind of slow going I find. Depending on your preference you could always give another army a shot. Lizardmen are pretty easy for beginners because almost everything except skinks are tanky and most of their lords/heroes can eventually be mounted on goddamn dinosaurs which makes them fairly self-sufficient. Dark Elves aren't too tough either really, Skaven are the only army that would be rather rough for someone new since they require a lot of micro and have a lot of specialized units.
It was always good once you figured out the useful spells, but there are some great new spells and some new casters like Teclis who have ridiculous spell synergies.
I found magic in 1 to be underwhelming. Is 2 better?
There is a Tomb King Lord who can wipe out hundreds of dudes level one with his magic. Vortex spells are pretty good. I think my record is like 650 with just his sandstorms in one fight.
Apparently we have some details on the Sword of Khaine. Only one of the three elven factions can draw it from the shrine, but any faction can use it by slaying the owner.
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
So I started over and things are going much better this time, if only because I am much more comfortable with the way economy and trading works. I'm still shit at fighting, but I'm earning so much cash from just one province (lots of trade) that I've been able to brute force my way through a lot of battles. I'm sure that will change.
Anyway, the real reason I'm here is that I'm about to recruit my first mage, and I found one with these stats:
Like... I can't imagine a mage charging ever, but... that's a lot of stats. Is this a trap, or is this a pretty good roll on a hero character?
It's not a great roll. It's a lot of influence to spend on a character who is still basically terrible at combat, and that 100 charge bonus means nothing special given that you're not going to be cycle charging a mage.
Note that for High Elves, you can get better heroes by spending more influence. But if that specific trait isn't good for that type of hero, it might be better to recruit a cheaper hero with relevant traits.
I have never seen a non-mage elf hero with that stat; Know that +100 charge adds to atk AND dmg during the charge cycle. A mage on a chariot would do a lot to a back line.
Storepage for the Alith Anar FLC is up. Looks like armies in his faction get an ambush stance like Skaven. Also sounds like they get what is basically an underway stance, but with no interception? Might be reading that wrong. He also gets a hit list of targets he can kill for nice rewards.
The Hand of the Shadow Throne is apparently a rite summoned hero like the Skaven ones. It's gimmick is it has a 100% assassination rate.
Warhammer is my first Total War game and boy howdy am I bad at it. I almost lost the second tutorial battle, and at like turn 4 had an open rebellion that the game said my Witch King would be evenly matched against. There's just a lot going on (or maybe it seems like a lot) and a lot to read (the tiny text doesn't help).
It’s worth going at. In some ways I think warhammer may be one of the harder games to start with because of all the unique mechanics, and the fact that it doesn’t shove you into one of the simpler, easier factions in one of the simpler, easier campaigns at the start like Rome 2 does.
I started with the Dark Elves (mostly because that's what I played in WH:O) and it said it was "Normal" difficulty. But then you look at the slider and you're able to adjust that? I just left that alone.
I'll just play the campaign tutorial again (honestly started it late at night and a bit tired).
The campaign difficulty is more things like how hard your initial objectives are or how likely you are to be attacked. As far as complexity of units and mechanics I’d say DE are probably second most difficult to get a hold on of the warhammer 2 factions. Which shouldn’t discourage you from playing them if you like them.
Easiest is definitely Lizardmen or HE, maybe HE clinch it because they're low micro and have no big weaknesses (where Lizardmen don't have much in the way of ranged). Hardest is definitely Skaven.
If we're counting Tomb Kings, I dunno. They're extremely weird to play as and a bad first choice because of that. I love a lot of stuff about them but when I replayed I was kind of bummed out that they have zero in the way of good units outside of constructs, which take a long time to get to.
Indeed. My decision to hold off on really diving into High Elves until they released new lords is paying dividends. Alith Anar and Alarielle both sound really awesome. Alith Anar also starts in Naggaroth, which has become a hell of a lot more interesting lately.
Easiest is definitely Lizardmen or HE, maybe HE clinch it because they're low micro and have no big weaknesses (where Lizardmen don't have much in the way of ranged). Hardest is definitely Skaven.
If we're counting Tomb Kings, I dunno. They're extremely weird to play as and a bad first choice because of that. I love a lot of stuff about them but when I replayed I was kind of bummed out that they have zero in the way of good units outside of constructs, which take a long time to get to.
The Tomb Guards are pretty decent infantry. Not the best, and you will not get many of them until late game.
Lizardmen are pretty great for low micro and tankiness. You start off with some of the best infantry in the game regardless of tier, and then dinosaurs. Hell, even your artillery can get into melee and wreck most stuff.
Lizard artillery is only artillery until you get into melee range. Another vote for lizardmen for easiest faction to start with. Pretty easy to wrap your head around as well because bigger dinosaurs = better.
Restart is going a lot better. Got a "Close Victory" instead of a Pyrrhic Victory on the second tutorial fight. I feel like I should be fighting these map battles instead of auto-resolving them to get experience though.
. . .and now I'm being raided. Sheesh. I can't catch a break. Should each settlement have it's own defender of justice? Also are you permanently slotted to three province level recruitments or does that increase? And how long is the tutorial? Will I know when I've learned all that the game has to throw at me (it's asking me now to wipe out Clan Septik which I'm taking as nearing the end).
Easiest is definitely Lizardmen or HE, maybe HE clinch it because they're low micro and have no big weaknesses (where Lizardmen don't have much in the way of ranged). Hardest is definitely Skaven.
If we're counting Tomb Kings, I dunno. They're extremely weird to play as and a bad first choice because of that. I love a lot of stuff about them but when I replayed I was kind of bummed out that they have zero in the way of good units outside of constructs, which take a long time to get to.
The Tomb Guards are pretty decent infantry. Not the best, and you will not get many of them until late game.
Yeah, they're ok, I felt like in my second game I was just microing construction way more than I wanted to to try and clear the trash out of my armies. There's not a lot of standout units outside of the constructs
Restart is going a lot better. Got a "Close Victory" instead of a Pyrrhic Victory on the second tutorial fight. I feel like I should be fighting these map battles instead of auto-resolving them to get experience though.
. . .and now I'm being raided. Sheesh. I can't catch a break. Should each settlement have it's own defender of justice? Also are you permanently slotted to three province level recruitments or does that increase? And how long is the tutorial? Will I know when I've learned all that the game has to throw at me (it's asking me now to wipe out Clan Septik which I'm taking as nearing the end).
That's not really a tutorial. It gives you some broad goals, but you don't have to pursue them.
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Also, don't feel like you have to go after other high elves unless they're aggressive. It's not a traditional war game in the sense of "whoever is next to me has to die". If they're the same race as you, they probably think you're ok and will join up with you voluntarily at some point, especially if you've been knocking the shit out of people that they hate. You can unite most of Ulthuan through diplomacy, with a few stragglers left over.
But this is all great advice, thanks for sharing. I think I’ll probably restart my current campaign, or maybe try things with Teclis. But I’m a little hesitant to throw magic into the mix since I’m quite the nub.
PSN: Threeve703
My early armies as Tyrion were always , Tyrion, his starting units and then just spearmen and archers. Generally I had two units more of spearmen than archers.
Group the archers in to one group then when the enemy gets in range select all of your archer units to shoot at one of theirs. You'll be able to focus down individual units in one or two volleys and then move on to the next.
Also, I understand that there are Unit variants (e.g., sea guard without and with shields). I’m assuming I get these upgrades through different buildings and/or tech advancements?
PSN: Threeve703
Oh it's so worth it, and if you're afraid of micro just don't bother with the buffs and put all skill points into big AOE spells - they can lay total waste to a lot of armies. Mages are a game changer.
You should be able to hover over the building that builds them, and see what tech buildings you need. Some things that are useful to know (mostly general stuff):
Shields are good against archers. If you are facing a lot of archers, make sure you have some shield infantry to tank their fire. You usually want a good chunk of your forces to be these sorts of guys to tank enemy infantry, too.
Greatweapons are good damage against infantry (but lack shields). Your swordmasters and white lions are these guys. Use them to punch into the enemy infantry and collapse a flank or the centre.
Polarms/spears are better against monsters/cavalry/chariots/big things. These guys will often work best on your flanks, protecting against enemy cav, or in reserve, to push against monstrous units, dragons, etc. (and also to protect your archers/artillery from cav in your backline)
Cavalry come in different flavours, but will usually give you an indication as to what they're best at. All of them are good for chasing down routing units to prevent them from returning, but light cav are best. Often, you will want to use them to harass enemy artillery/skirmishers, as well. Finally, a rear/flank cavalry charge on enemy infantry engaged on your infantry can buckle a flank for you.
High elves don't have dwarf-tier artillery, but their bolt throwers get the job done. Make sure your views form them aren't obstructed, and make sure to have some reserves to protect them from cav.
Your heroes/lords buff nearby units morale, so put them where the fighting is thickest, if you need to hold the line.
Something to keep in mind as the campaign progresses, is that you don't usually want to just fill your armies with the hottest newest shit, because all infantry/cav/etc. are not made equal, they all excel at different things.
Also make a habit of checking stat lines because some things that might look like direct upgrades are really sidegrades. Like Reaver archers aren’t just reavers with bows, they give up some charge bonus and a bit of melee defense.
Magic isn't too hard to use, though Teclis's start is kind of slow going I find. Depending on your preference you could always give another army a shot. Lizardmen are pretty easy for beginners because almost everything except skinks are tanky and most of their lords/heroes can eventually be mounted on goddamn dinosaurs which makes them fairly self-sufficient. Dark Elves aren't too tough either really, Skaven are the only army that would be rather rough for someone new since they require a lot of micro and have a lot of specialized units.
Yes. There were always really good buffs/debuffs but damage spells have mostly gotten a decent upgrade.
The single target/character spells are weaker but the aoe and vortex spells are generally better.
There is a Tomb King Lord who can wipe out hundreds of dudes level one with his magic. Vortex spells are pretty good. I think my record is like 650 with just his sandstorms in one fight.
Anyway, the real reason I'm here is that I'm about to recruit my first mage, and I found one with these stats:
Like... I can't imagine a mage charging ever, but... that's a lot of stats. Is this a trap, or is this a pretty good roll on a hero character?
PSN: Threeve703
Storepage for the Alith Anar FLC is up. Looks like armies in his faction get an ambush stance like Skaven. Also sounds like they get what is basically an underway stance, but with no interception? Might be reading that wrong. He also gets a hit list of targets he can kill for nice rewards.
The Hand of the Shadow Throne is apparently a rite summoned hero like the Skaven ones. It's gimmick is it has a 100% assassination rate.
. . .I'm going to keep with it though.
I'll just play the campaign tutorial again (honestly started it late at night and a bit tired).
If we're counting Tomb Kings, I dunno. They're extremely weird to play as and a bad first choice because of that. I love a lot of stuff about them but when I replayed I was kind of bummed out that they have zero in the way of good units outside of constructs, which take a long time to get to.
Indeed. My decision to hold off on really diving into High Elves until they released new lords is paying dividends. Alith Anar and Alarielle both sound really awesome. Alith Anar also starts in Naggaroth, which has become a hell of a lot more interesting lately.
Your milage on them may vary depending on how much you like driving chariots around all day
The Tomb Guards are pretty decent infantry. Not the best, and you will not get many of them until late game.
. . .and now I'm being raided. Sheesh. I can't catch a break. Should each settlement have it's own defender of justice? Also are you permanently slotted to three province level recruitments or does that increase? And how long is the tutorial? Will I know when I've learned all that the game has to throw at me (it's asking me now to wipe out Clan Septik which I'm taking as nearing the end).
Yeah, they're ok, I felt like in my second game I was just microing construction way more than I wanted to to try and clear the trash out of my armies. There's not a lot of standout units outside of the constructs
That's not really a tutorial. It gives you some broad goals, but you don't have to pursue them.