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[Total War]: 3 Kingdoms loom whilst pirate vampires raid coasts.

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Posts

  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    Wow, that's going to make playthroughs terribly complicated. How to keep track of who's loyal to who.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Still find it amusing that everyone just pretty much ignores the fact that his given name is a euphamism for a vulgarity that sounds almost exactly the same, so much so that its symbol is often used in writing as a replacement.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Yes because someone pointed out that those jokes are pretty shitty if you have a Chinese name

    Hobnail wrote: »
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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    That TechReform tree... So pretty.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    EnclaveofGnomes
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    That's really the first gameplay footage of Three Kingdoms that I've personally checked out. What a handsome game that is.

    EnclaveofGnomes
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Massena wrote: »
    Kruite wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    3 Kingdoms has too damn many characters. It took me 2 Warhammer games just to start learning all those characters. I don't know if my brain can keep track of an even more expansive lore set.

    Play some Dynasty Warriors; you'll get a hang of the character sets in time for release :P

    One of the real beautiful things about games is that they help you absorb tons of information in digestible chunks pretty quickly. Took me years to get even a basic understanding of the 3 Kingdoms players. Honestly, Dynasty Warriors was super helpful in learning the people beyond the main players.

    Short version though, I would say there are 4 main "sides" to think about, and most of the "story" revolves around the interactions with those sides (two uniting against one, one betraying the other, some kind of rivalry from within, etc.)

    Liu Bei's faction:
    Liu Bei (kind hearted boss who, imo, always has people making excuses for his failures)
    Guan Su (the guy with the long beard and spear, again imo, kind of a prideful ass, imo, but I approached the material as an adult)
    Zhang Fei (the model for every hard drinking hard charging big hairy character in an asian setting)
    Zhuge Liang (Captain Strategy, who works for Liu Bei because of his virtue, and somehow can never beat Cao Cao's people in the mountains despite being omgGenius according to everyone)

    Cao Cao's faction:
    Cao Cao (ruthless strategist type who is portrayed as power hungrier than most even though they all are and he seems to be pretty efficient about things really)
    The 5 Elite Generals: Yue Jin, Yu Jin, Zhang He, Zhang Liao, and Xu Huang (honestly these guys all kind of blend together a bit for me, but the point is that Cao Cao has great generals)
    Sima Yi (who eventually founds the Jin dynasty)

    The Sun faction:
    Sun Jian is the patriarch, but (traditionally) dies early in an ambush and his son, Sun Ce trades the Imperial Seal found by his father before his death to a rival of Cao Cao's in the north (Yuan Shu) in exchange for troops to found a kingdom in the south. Then he dies and his brother Sun Quan takes over. Makes following the Sun faction tough for me.

    The Usurper faction:
    Dong Zhuo takes over the Imperial city which is what finally throws the whole Han empire into collapse. He's the big bad that everyone usually rises up to fight in these stories.
    Lu Bu is the big bad tough guy general who a wise adviser and his beautiful daughter pits against Dong Zhuo.

    There are obviously a LOT more characters, but if you think about it in those terms: the Usurpers, the Liu Bei faction, the Cao Cao faction, and the Sun faction, you're probably going to have an easier time slotting the other players in around them.


    Don't forget Lu Bu switches sides every little bit.

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    Moridin889
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    Tube wrote: »
    Yes because someone pointed out that those jokes are pretty shitty if you have a Chinese name

    I guess so, but that joke only works if you know at least some mandarin anyway. It is sophomoric and insensitive though, sorry.

    Jealous Deva on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Np man I did it literally like three pages ago, I’m not judging :)

    Hobnail wrote: »
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  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    Excuse me while I take a moment to laugh at Intervention armies.

    Okay Lizardmen, I'm real scared of that full stack of Skinks+2 Lizardmen that you spawned in while I'm on the final Ritual.

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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    That's their cheap stack. The expensive intervention stack is a little bit scarier.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Playing as Noctilus, where did everyone make their first landings?

    I know the missions aim you towards Caledor by Tyrions can often be too strong.

  • UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Still find it amusing that everyone just pretty much ignores the fact that his given name is a euphamism for a vulgarity that sounds almost exactly the same, so much so that its symbol is often used in writing as a replacement.
    it sure beats DW3's pronunciation: "cow cow"
    I can't wait for this game to come out and dive back into 3 kingdoms

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    How is cao cao pronounced?

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    How is cao cao pronounced?

    If you haven't learned any of the transliteration systems, I think Tsaow Tsaow would be about right for American English speakers, minus the missing accents.

    The wikipedia article has an audio recording: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Cao_Cao.ogg

    UrQuanLord88EnclaveofGnomesElvenshae
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    It really depends on dialect. I've heard dialects where it's more "Cho Cho" (with a short hard "o" sound. Not Choo choo

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 22
    Basically, the C is soft, but has a harder edge than just an s

    Fencingsax on
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  • UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    I found a pronunciation video someone made for the Wei faction:

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    It really depends on dialect. I've heard dialects where it's more "Cho Cho" (with a short hard "o" sound. Not Choo choo

    Yeah, I have heard it sound like anything between a hard T to a hard S to a Ch sound depending on speaker, it’s pretty much never a hard K as in “cow” though.

    Tsao Tsao is probably the most “correct” Mandarin pronunciation.

    Chinese languages are difficult, though, because the vowel and consonant sounds really don’t map well to roman characters at all in the same way they are used in English, unlike say Japanese where transliteration can get you 90% of the way there.

    For Mandarin its more that I tend to hear a word, look at the transliteration, and end up saying “oh I can sort of see what they were going for there”.

    Edit: not to say the transliterations aren’t consistent, they are, they just don’t map well to English pronunciations.

    Jealous Deva on
    That_GuySynthesisFiendishrabbitFencingsax
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    It really depends on dialect. I've heard dialects where it's more "Cho Cho" (with a short hard "o" sound. Not Choo choo

    Yeah, I have heard it sound like anything between a hard T to a hard S to a Ch sound depending on speaker, it’s pretty much never a hard K as in “cow” though.

    Tsao Tsao is probably the most “correct” Mandarin pronunciation.

    Chinese languages are difficult, though, because the vowel and consonant sounds really don’t map well to roman characters at all in the same way they are used in English, unlike say Japanese where transliteration can get you 90% of the way there.

    For Mandarin its more that I tend to hear a word, look at the transliteration, and end up saying “oh I can sort of see what they were going for there”.

    Edit: not to say the transliterations aren’t consistent, they are, they just don’t map well to English pronunciations.

    Yeah. official mandarin is very close to "Tsao Tsao", while "Cho Cho/Chao Chao" is more as you approach south eastern china.
    Unlike english, if it's not spelled with a K it's not a /k/ sound.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    Kana
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    Playing as Noctilus, where did everyone make their first landings?

    I know the missions aim you towards Caledor by Tyrions can often be too strong.

    I went hard and deep on the High Elves. It was not easy. They have incredibly good low tier infantry and you basically just have a load of zombies. HE will outrange you in every battle and so many of their units have shields. I tangled with Tyrion several times. Most were tough fights but I came away with a pyrrhic victory. Alariel came to play, taking the Sword of Kanye with her but I pulled out the win. It took forever to get my economy going and I was always hurting for money. If you want a real challenge go after HE. I think skavin and/or lizardmen would be better targets.

    camo_sig.png
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I only found out how to pronounce Cao Cao when, many years ago, I was a party and talking with a lovely Chinese couple. For some reason, we were talking about books we'd read, and I mentioned that I'd recently read the Three Kingdoms. They were surprised that an English-speaker had even heard of it - I'd read it recently because I'd played Romance of the Three Kingdoms years and years previously, then more recently Dynasty Warriors, and decided to actually read the source material.

    They asked who my favorite character was, and I said, "Cao Cao," and explained why. (I forget the reasons now; starting a reread to see if I feel the same way.) I then found out that:

    1. It was, to them, pronounced "Tsao Tsao" or "Sow Sow"
    2. This was the Wrong Answer(TM). :D

    It was like when I learned that Fran-koh-is is not how you pronounce the name of that human character from Call of the Wild.

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    It really depends on dialect. I've heard dialects where it's more "Cho Cho" (with a short hard "o" sound. Not Choo choo

    Yeah, I have heard it sound like anything between a hard T to a hard S to a Ch sound depending on speaker, it’s pretty much never a hard K as in “cow” though.

    Tsao Tsao is probably the most “correct” Mandarin pronunciation.

    Chinese languages are difficult, though, because the vowel and consonant sounds really don’t map well to roman characters at all in the same way they are used in English, unlike say Japanese where transliteration can get you 90% of the way there.

    For Mandarin its more that I tend to hear a word, look at the transliteration, and end up saying “oh I can sort of see what they were going for there”.

    Edit: not to say the transliterations aren’t consistent, they are, they just don’t map well to English pronunciations.

    Yeah. official mandarin is very close to "Tsao Tsao", while "Cho Cho/Chao Chao" is more as you approach south eastern china.
    Unlike english, if it's not spelled with a K it's not a /k/ sound.

    This is true in Taiwan as well, though I think the later is gaining traction simply by hearing it often enough.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • KarozKaroz Uguu~ Registered User regular
    Yeah, fighting High Elves just gets old fast IMO. Basically you let your artillery wreck their shit but won't get much headway with anything else due to their superior range and shields.

    Besides, High Elves are guaranteed to declare war on you sooner or later, why rush things other than for a quick doubloon?

    Strength of being vampirates is going wherever you want, raiding the coast and then retreating to the waters while not needing to settle and defend due to Pirate Coves.

    Count Noctilus and Sartosa (in Vortex) are best at this since they have island provinces that you can see invading armies come a long way off and have strong garrisons whereas the Drowned and Harkon are stuck with land provinces.

    Elvenshae
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    The beauty of Noctilus is that he can go wherever the hell he wants to. He's the perfect candidate for an "ignore all land, just be the pirate master" playthrough, but he's also roughly equidistant to 4 diffferent landmasses to invade.

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    KarozMoridin889
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I only found out how to pronounce Cao Cao when, many years ago, I was a party and talking with a lovely Chinese couple. For some reason, we were talking about books we'd read, and I mentioned that I'd recently read the Three Kingdoms. They were surprised that an English-speaker had even heard of it - I'd read it recently because I'd played Romance of the Three Kingdoms years and years previously, then more recently Dynasty Warriors, and decided to actually read the source material.

    They asked who my favorite character was, and I said, "Cao Cao," and explained why. (I forget the reasons now; starting a reread to see if I feel the same way.) I then found out that:

    1. It was, to them, pronounced "Tsao Tsao" or "Sow Sow"
    2. This was the Wrong Answer(TM). :D

    It was like when I learned that Fran-koh-is is not how you pronounce the name of that human character from Call of the Wild.

    I think Cao Cao has a cultural history as a villain that doesn’t really come across so much in the text itself or the historical record.

    Plenty of examples of the same phenomenon in western history.

    Jealous Deva on
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  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    Yeah but that's only because Zhuge Liang paid off all the biographers to make Shu the hero faction.

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I don't preorder games anymore. I was thinking today about how CA is bucking the trend of preorder DLC by keeping it free for a week after release. That way there's plenty of time to check reviews and gauge the general consensus. The people who bought early get a little something extra but they're not penalizing you for not shelling out the money up front for the promise of a good game later.

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I only found out how to pronounce Cao Cao when, many years ago, I was a party and talking with a lovely Chinese couple. For some reason, we were talking about books we'd read, and I mentioned that I'd recently read the Three Kingdoms. They were surprised that an English-speaker had even heard of it - I'd read it recently because I'd played Romance of the Three Kingdoms years and years previously, then more recently Dynasty Warriors, and decided to actually read the source material.

    They asked who my favorite character was, and I said, "Cao Cao," and explained why. (I forget the reasons now; starting a reread to see if I feel the same way.) I then found out that:

    1. It was, to them, pronounced "Tsao Tsao" or "Sow Sow"
    2. This was the Wrong Answer(TM). :D

    It was like when I learned that Fran-koh-is is not how you pronounce the name of that human character from Call of the Wild.

    I think Cao Cao has a cultural history as a villain that doesn’t really come across so much in the text itself or the historical record.

    Plenty of examples of the same phenomenon in western history.

    Ehh Cao Cao is pretty much the villain of Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

    He's also by far the faction leader with the most personality, and you're frequently like, "Uhh, isn't Cao Cao sort of the best guy for the job, actually?" but he's definitely the antagonist to Liu Bei's more heroic (and also more boring) goody two-shoes. He's like the OG Littlefinger, except less creepy and more charismatic.

    Like this is the first meeting between Liu Bei (AKA Xuande) and Cao Cao, before the civil war really breaks out into open fighting. Liu Bei is trying to act very unassuming and very not-worth-assassinating during his time at the imperial court, which after the fall of Dong Zhuo is now mostly controlled by Liu Bei. But then Cao Cao shows up at his house:
    "You yourself have traveled widely and surely must be familiar with the great heroes of our time. Please try to point them out for me."
    "How can these eyes of mine sight heroes?" Xuande said.
    "Set your modesty aside," Cao urged.
    "Thanks to Your Excellency's gracious benefaction," Xuande responded, "I have succeeded in serving the dynasty. But as for the heroes of the realm, such things are more than I would know of."
    "Even if you do not know any personally," Cao Cao persisted, "you should at least have heard of some."
    "Yuan Shu of Huainan?" Xuande ventured. "His warriors are first rate, his provisions abundant. Would he be one?"
    "Dry bones," Cao laughed, "rattling in the grave. Sooner or later I will have him."
    "Yuan Shao, then," Xuande suggested. "For four generations the Yuans have held highest office, and many officials served under them. Shao has a firm grip on Jizhou, where he is supported by capable men. Would you count him?"
    "His expression is fierce enough," Cao said. "But his courage is thin. He enjoys conniving but lacks decision. He plays for high stakes but begrudges personal sacrifice, spots a minor gain and risks his life. No hero he!"
    Xuande asked, "And how would you rate Liu Biao, a paragon whose reputation stretches across the realm?"
    "Liu Biao?" Cao answered. "A name without substance, and no hero either."
    "There is Sun Ce," Xuande suggested. "The leader of the Southland is in his prime."
    "Sun Ce," Cao replied, "stands on his father's reputation. He's no hero."
    "Liu Zhang, then," Xuande said, "Perhaps he could be considered."
    "Though connected to the royal house," Cao Cao said, he is nothing but a watchdog by the gate and hardly deserves the name of hero."
    "Then," Xuande continued "what about Zhang Xiu, Zhang Lu, Han Sui, and the other warlords?"
    Cao Cao clapped his hands and laughed. "Petty mediocrities," he said, "beneath our notice."
    "Truly," said Xuande, "I can think of no one else."
    "Now," Cao Cao went on, "what defines a hero is this: a determination to conquer, a mine of marvelous schemes, an ability to encompass the realm, and the will to make it his."
    "Who merits such a description?" Xuande asked
    Cao pointed first to Xuande, then to himself. "The heroes of the present day," he said, "number but two - you, my lord, and myself."
    Xuande gulped his panic. Before he realized it, his chopsticks had slipped to the ground.

    I love what a mental image of Cao Cao this scene draws, how he's already sized every possible rival up, how he's more interested in recruiting Xuande than killing him, how he's so confident in his own destiny but also views Xuande as an equal. He's a conniving straight talker. It's an effective bit of scene-setting too, since these of course are most of the various rivals that will soon be fighting each other in the war.

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  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    Cao Cao wants to recruit Liu Bei because he really really really wants Guan Yu.

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  • The BraysterThe Brayster UKRegistered User regular


    New Video up! Highlighting Liu Bei and the overall Guanxi system of character relationships.

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  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    Started up TWII again. Haven't played since before the DLC started coming out.

    I've got a Settra campaign going, and just started a Hellebron one as well. TK infantry is soooo bad, but there are so many monsters and constructs just out of my reach. I love the 0 gold system for military units but you definitely have to play very strategically with a low territory count because the limits on the good stuff are so severe. A T4 settlement and 7500 gold just to get access to one giant.

    With Hellebron I've had a flying start. She is nuts with bonuses and the free death hag you start with makes a big difference as well. Nice to play an army again with strong basics, Darkshards really put some work in.

    Love the sisters of slaughter as well, a very low upkeep unit that can survive in melee for days but still has damage as well. I've never really used them before but I'll certainly be using a lot of the sisters and executioners given her cost reduction and unique buffs.

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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    The sisters are probably the best bang for your buck available to DE.
    With dodge and shields they're not bad against missiles, and with their defense and dodge they're insanely good in melee.

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  • KarozKaroz Uguu~ Registered User regular
    Like a lot of the fodder factions, TKs rely on basic skeletons to hold the enemy while you archers/chariots/cavalry/monsters to do the work. It is definetly more of a monster unit faction as their artillery is more for drawing the enemy to you/taking out prime targets.

    But yes they can feel like a very back loaded faction.

    Moridin889
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Main thing to keep in mind as TK is that you only go downhill from the beginning. Your extra armies are free, so you should always have the maximum available armies and they should never be less than a full stack. You're going to have to double team battles against certain factions early game, and make the best use you can of your free Ushabti summon. Your archers are surprisingly good and I tend to keep them in my armies even into the endgame. Choosing the redline buffs for skellies on your early generals is also advised. Tomb Scorpions and both types of Ushabti are unlocked by tier 4 settlements and that's when you really take off.

    Your income only ever increases, so even though it's a huge investment for basic buildings now, it won't be late game. Prioritize a Necrotect to gain the ritual one, and use him to settle ruins at Tier 3 right off the bat.

    One last tip: your building income and raiding income are nerfed, but IIRC battle income and mysterious island income are fixed. You can earn some major cash by setting your armies in enemy territory and letting them send impotent armies against you. Doesn't cost you a dime if YOU loose any units.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Main thing to keep in mind as TK is that you only go downhill from the beginning. Your extra armies are free, so you should always have the maximum available armies and they should never be less than a full stack. You're going to have to double team battles against certain factions early game, and make the best use you can of your free Ushabti summon. Your archers are surprisingly good and I tend to keep them in my armies even into the endgame. Choosing the redline buffs for skellies on your early generals is also advised. Tomb Scorpions and both types of Ushabti are unlocked by tier 4 settlements and that's when you really take off.

    Your income only ever increases, so even though it's a huge investment for basic buildings now, it won't be late game. Prioritize a Necrotect to gain the ritual one, and use him to settle ruins at Tier 3 right off the bat.

    One last tip: your building income and raiding income are nerfed, but IIRC battle income and mysterious island income are fixed. You can earn some major cash by setting your armies in enemy territory and letting them send impotent armies against you. Doesn't cost you a dime if YOU loose any units.

    Tomb kings do have a penalty for mysterious island incomes. However, it's still a massive boost for TK.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
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  • XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    Chariots did a helluva lot of work for me early game when I played Tomb Kings. I had never messed with chariots before, but for TK I had to.

    KarozFiatilMoridin889
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Main thing to keep in mind as TK is that you only go downhill from the beginning. Your extra armies are free, so you should always have the maximum available armies and they should never be less than a full stack. You're going to have to double team battles against certain factions early game, and make the best use you can of your free Ushabti summon. Your archers are surprisingly good and I tend to keep them in my armies even into the endgame. Choosing the redline buffs for skellies on your early generals is also advised. Tomb Scorpions and both types of Ushabti are unlocked by tier 4 settlements and that's when you really take off.

    Your income only ever increases, so even though it's a huge investment for basic buildings now, it won't be late game. Prioritize a Necrotect to gain the ritual one, and use him to settle ruins at Tier 3 right off the bat.

    One last tip: your building income and raiding income are nerfed, but IIRC battle income and mysterious island income are fixed. You can earn some major cash by setting your armies in enemy territory and letting them send impotent armies against you. Doesn't cost you a dime if YOU loose any units.

    Tomb kings do have a penalty for mysterious island incomes. However, it's still a massive boost for TK.

    I'm pretty sure that was added later because I recall when they launched getting full amounts from them.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Main thing to keep in mind as TK is that you only go downhill from the beginning. Your extra armies are free, so you should always have the maximum available armies and they should never be less than a full stack. You're going to have to double team battles against certain factions early game, and make the best use you can of your free Ushabti summon. Your archers are surprisingly good and I tend to keep them in my armies even into the endgame. Choosing the redline buffs for skellies on your early generals is also advised. Tomb Scorpions and both types of Ushabti are unlocked by tier 4 settlements and that's when you really take off.

    Your income only ever increases, so even though it's a huge investment for basic buildings now, it won't be late game. Prioritize a Necrotect to gain the ritual one, and use him to settle ruins at Tier 3 right off the bat.

    One last tip: your building income and raiding income are nerfed, but IIRC battle income and mysterious island income are fixed. You can earn some major cash by setting your armies in enemy territory and letting them send impotent armies against you. Doesn't cost you a dime if YOU loose any units.

    Tomb kings do have a penalty for mysterious island incomes. However, it's still a massive boost for TK.

    I know it got dropped a little while after the TK came out, but didn't it go back up a bunch after Vampirates were released?

    Either way, still a great deal. Most of those fights are pretty easy, and the extra cash is still very helpful.

  • EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    Another video from someone with early access:



    A minor point he brings up at the end of the 20 minutes of game play he was allowed to show is Region trading is back. Which is a small detail that makes a pretty big difference.

    EnclaveofGnomes on
    KanaKadokenMassenaElvenshae
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    A random detail, which totally doesn't matter to Total War games but I find interesting nonetheless, is that Liu Bei's Peach Garden Oath - where three unrelated dudes swear an oath to be blood brothers for eternity - was a pretty damn unusual thing. Chinese society was quite strongly Confucian by this time, and Confucianism is all about pretty strict lines of descent, honoring ones ancestors and so on. Like there isn't much of an afterlife for those who aren't honored by their ancestors, it's a big deal. So you don't just get to swear that someone's now your brother - it just wasn't how the conception of family worked, at all. In fact hard-line Confucians tended to quite dislike that bit, sort of like how certain Christians might frown at certain overly-sexy bits in the bible.

    At any rate one of the big influences of the peach garden oath was that it ended up being copied by certain underworld societies, such as the triad and yakuza. When you became a made man in the triad you literally became part of the family, swearing an oath that was modeled on the peach garden oath from Romance of the three kingdoms. And which according to the example laid forth by Liu Bei means you're literally part of a new family. It was one of the ways in which criminal societies claimed legitimacy, as well as portraying themselves as part of a long historical tradition, which wasn't really the case.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Elvenshae
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