Larry Nassar, USA Gymnastics, and Michigan State : Sports Abuse Scandals

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Olympic gold medalist Shawn Johnson East rips into USA Gymnastics:


    “Knowing that USA Gymnastics has failed their athletes so terribly disappoints me and makes me so incredibly angry. I think the fact that any of this has ever happened shows that USA Gymnastics has failed as a governing body to protect the athletes that it supports and claims to care about... The fact that a system that is supposed to protect children has failed them so bad is so wrong.

    If you want to gain the trust of the world—if you want to gain the trust from coaches and from parents and make little girls feel comfortable again—you need to change the system completely. I think USA Gymnastics for a very, very long time has focused on nothing but winning gold medals... they have overlooked the simple and most important fact that the people they are dealing with are minors and are children and do not have the capabilities to stand up for themselves or to speak for themselves. And when these little girls have devoted their entire lives to one dream, and they feel scared to voice something that has gone wrong because they feel that that dream could be compromised, that is disgusting. I think, as it pertains to USA Gymnastics, every single procedure, rule, guideline, rulebook you’ve ever made needs to be thrown out the window and redone.

    I think gymnastics is the best sport in the entire world, but if I had a daughter right now, I wouldn’t put her in it, and it makes me really sad. Because I can’t even trust USA Gymnastics. I’ve talked to other athletes and gymnasts who are part of USA Gymnastics who have daughters, and it’s just like... the organization I have trusted my entire life has failed miserably, and I don’t know how to fix it, except for start over. Start over completely. Until we protect these little girls as human beings, instead of protecting them as gymnasts just to make sure they win gold medals, we aren’t going to make any progress that’s meaningful.”

    This is why I think the answer is decertification. The rot goes too deep, so the best answer is to start over with a new organization.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    1996 Olympic gold medalist Dominique Moceanu posted an email that Geddert had sent her in 2008 before her memoir, Off Balance was published:



    Geddert is part of the rot, and it is ridiculous that USA Gymnastics only suspended him, instead of fully breaking ties.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Wow, MSU board member Joel “Turd” Ferguson really should have not opened his mouth today. On a phone right now. The highlights include laughing at the possibility of a NCAA investigation, pointing out all the money Simon brings in, and hyping the admission stats...

    At this rate, Spartans basketball will be booed during all their tournament games.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Today in fucked up MSU shit:

    1) One of the victims wanted to remain anonymous, but MSU is having a PI ask her former crew teammates about her injury history, effectively outing her.
    2) Joel Ferguson, the vice chair of the board of trustees, is far more interested in talking about how Nick Foles played at MSU for a season and the renovations of the Breslin Center than "this Nassar thing." I would assume the Michigan Democratic Party will nominate someone else in 2020. If he is not recalled anyway, though the signature threshold is very large and maybe not feasible for such a downballot position; we could never get Snyder on the ballot and he literally poisoned a city. Dem leader in the House demanded his resignation today, I would assume he has enough juice to make that happen. *I* would vote for the Republican in that race, sooo
    3) Two rowers also disclosed Nassar's abuse to MSU psychologists, who are definitely mandatory reporters.

    Today in incredibly fucked up USAG shit:

    1) Mattie Larsen was one of the survivors who testified today. She was on the national team, describes the Karolyi Ranch as the perfect environment for abusers. Secluded location, limited cell service, she says by design. One year she intentionally banged her head against the bathtub to fake a serious injury to get out of returning. Among others, she blames the current national coach, Valeri Liukin (you may recall the last name from the 2008 Olympic champion, Nastia Liukin, Valeri is her father).
    2) Arianna Castillo says she first saw Nassar when she was 8 when her coach "stretched her too hard and fractured my hip."

    In other general news:

    MSU faculty are trying to organize a possibly illegal emergency meeting of faculty to call for a vote of no confidence (I don't think that has any actual power beyond moral power, for the record) in Simon. Supposed to have overwhelming support within the Madison School of Government, which as far as I know is the most prestigious college within MSU in terms of national rankings and what not. Bunch of friends from high school enrolled there.

    There are 3 victim statements remaining for tomorrow morning, including Denhollander. Total victim count is now at least 196. Closing in on doubling the previous largest known victim count (103) in the US. Then defense and the DA will have their say, Nassar will say something unctuous, and mid-morning the judge will speak and hand down either 40 years as per the plea or throw out the plea and we get a trial where Ingham County goes for 125 years. He is also due to be sentenced in Eaton County for three sexual assaults he committed at Twistars next Tuesday, I believe. On top of the 60 he has already received in federal prison.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    The Detroit Free Press (state's largest paper) finally got around to demanding Simon's resignation.

    EDIT: On campus rally to demand same Friday at 6 PM.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Still 8 years away, but I don’t think my daughters will be going anywhere near the MSU campus.

    Also tempted to include a note with my state taxes, “MSU gets none of this.”

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    If Simon continues to get good fund raising numbers than damn america you are falling faster than I imagined.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Still 8 years away, but I don’t think my daughters will be going anywhere near the MSU campus.

    Also tempted to include a note with my state taxes, “MSU gets none of this.”

    If I started including a note with my taxes about all the assholes in this buttcrack of a state who I don't want touching my money, I'd need to add a couple extra stamps.

    Doctor DetroitBullheadMatev
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    The Detroit Free Press (state's largest paper) finally got around to demanding Simon's resignation.

    EDIT: On campus rally to demand same Friday at 6 PM.

    Fucking good. This is disgusting all around.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Geddert is now retiring. Which has Lindsey Lemke furious, on top of her already being furious because of Ferguson's bullshit.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Geddert is now retiring. Which has Lindsey Lemke furious, on top of her already being furious because of Ferguson's bullshit.

    Most likely because the retirement will be treated as resolving the problem, when it does nothing of the sort.

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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Geddert is now retiring. Which has Lindsey Lemke furious, on top of her already being furious because of Ferguson's bullshit.

    Most likely because the retirement will be treated as resolving the problem, when it does nothing of the sort.

    Does USA Gymnastics have any retirement benefits that would be affected if he was fired instead of retired?

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  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    If Simon continues to get good fund raising numbers than damn america you are falling faster than I imagined.

    How does the board continue to think she’ll be effective? It’s pretty obvious no one that wasn’t already going to donate anyway (with or without her) is going to give her money.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    If Simon continues to get good fund raising numbers than damn america you are falling faster than I imagined.

    How does the board continue to think she’ll be effective? It’s pretty obvious no one that wasn’t already going to donate anyway (with or without her) is going to give her money.

    The evidence would suggest that they're not very bright.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    If Simon continues to get good fund raising numbers than damn america you are falling faster than I imagined.

    How does the board continue to think she’ll be effective? It’s pretty obvious no one that wasn’t already going to donate anyway (with or without her) is going to give her money.

    The evidence would suggest that they're not very bright.

    More that they think this will all blow over. One would hope that their reality check is getting cashed.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Geddert is now retiring. Which has Lindsey Lemke furious, on top of her already being furious because of Ferguson's bullshit.

    Most likely because the retirement will be treated as resolving the problem, when it does nothing of the sort.

    Does USA Gymnastics have any retirement benefits that would be affected if he was fired instead of retired?

    I'm thinking that it's more tied to Twistars. If USA Gymnastics breaks ties with him, it would also mean breaking ties with his gym. And given that connection is pretty much the only reason people go there, losing it would mean a death sentence for Twistars. I'd bet that Geddert is hoping that by retiring, it will preserve his little fiefdom of horror.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    If you're ready for some incompetent buffoonery, the NCAA is officially investigating, reports the NYT.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Actually, I know how the NCAA fucks this up. They punish MSU in the sports where Nassar treated athletes, victimizing the athletes again.

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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Actually, I know how the NCAA fucks this up. They punish MSU in the sports where Nassar treated athletes, victimizing the athletes again.

    I'm torn on this.

    On one hand, burn the motherfucker down.

    On the other hand, collective punishment is bad.

    I think the only way I won't want the the former is if everyone that had any possible connection to this is no longer at MSU. Maybe put Rachael Denhollander in charge of shit, too.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Actually, I know how the NCAA fucks this up. They punish MSU in the sports where Nassar treated athletes, victimizing the athletes again.

    I remember in the Penn State thread there was an option for athletes to transfer, which is may be a solution.

    Unfortunately anything less than burning corrupt institutions to the ground in situations like this allow the status quo to remain in tact, eventually letting another Nassar replace the old one because the old guard is totally ok with predators accessing their students.

    This may also be a shield MSU are counting on so they can bounce back.

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  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    Actually, I know how the NCAA fucks this up. They punish MSU in the sports where Nassar treated athletes, victimizing the athletes again.

    I remember in the Penn State thread there was an option for athletes to transfer, which is may be a solution.

    Unfortunately anything less than burning corrupt institutions to the ground in situations like this allow the status quo to remain in tact, eventually letting another Nassar replace the old one because the old guard is totally ok with predators accessing their students.

    This may also be a shield MSU are counting on so they can bounce back.

    The problem with that, and when they were discussing the PSU death penalty, is that you're still asking kids who had nothing to do with all this to completely uproot their lives and college education.

    I'm still waiting to hear how that isn't a punishment for them, versus the mostly wealthy administrators and coaches who can way more easily afford the disruption in their lives, who are actually to blame.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Actually, I know how the NCAA fucks this up. They punish MSU in the sports where Nassar treated athletes, victimizing the athletes again.

    I remember in the Penn State thread there was an option for athletes to transfer, which is may be a solution.

    Unfortunately anything less than burning corrupt institutions to the ground in situations like this allow the status quo to remain in tact, eventually letting another Nassar replace the old one because the old guard is totally ok with predators accessing their students.

    This may also be a shield MSU are counting on so they can bounce back.

    The problem with that, and when they were discussing the PSU death penalty, is that you're still asking kids who had nothing to do with all this to completely uproot their lives and college education.

    I'm still waiting to hear how that isn't a punishment for them, versus the mostly wealthy administrators and coaches who can way more easily afford the disruption in their lives, who are actually to blame.

    How do you punish the administration appropriately and save the kids at the same time? We have to work with the existing power structure within sports, which is a very flawed process.

    Of course this is punishment for them, though indirectly. That doesn't mean the right option isn't the death penalty.

    At least those kids get a chance to live their lives somewhere else, that's a heck of a better deal than what the victims under Nassar got.

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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    You could make the school honor the scholarships of anyone who wanted to stay despite the death penalty.

    Hit the athletic department in the pocketbook maybe next time they won't cover up for a serial rapist.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    You could make the school honor the scholarships of anyone who wanted to stay despite the death penalty.

    Hit the athletic department in the pocketbook maybe next time they won't cover up for a serial rapist.

    And you do that with a massive, punitive fine, not with the death penalty. Different situation than PSU, which should have gotten one for deciding the football program itself was more important than the safety of boys. Here it was the connection to Olympic doctor Larry Nasser, which seems like a considerably less direct link.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    You could make the school honor the scholarships of anyone who wanted to stay despite the death penalty.

    Hit the athletic department in the pocketbook maybe next time they won't cover up for a serial rapist.

    And you do that with a massive, punitive fine, not with the death penalty. Different situation than PSU, which should have gotten one for deciding the football program itself was more important than the safety of boys. Here it was the connection to Olympic doctor Larry Nasser, which seems like a considerably less direct link.

    That's not hard enough on the admin, give them a while for this to blow over and we'll be right back to the status quo in a few years - if not sooner.

    Fencingsax
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    You could make the school honor the scholarships of anyone who wanted to stay despite the death penalty.

    Hit the athletic department in the pocketbook maybe next time they won't cover up for a serial rapist.

    And you do that with a massive, punitive fine, not with the death penalty. Different situation than PSU, which should have gotten one for deciding the football program itself was more important than the safety of boys. Here it was the connection to Olympic doctor Larry Nasser, which seems like a considerably less direct link.

    That's not hard enough on the admin, give them a while for this to blow over and we'll be right back to the status quo in a few years - if not sooner.

    They have to go, but that's a matter for the university and the state of Michigan. They clearly do not care about women's sports anyway.

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    I think the NCAA punishing MSU for what Nassar did is wrong, but not because of how it would affect the current students there. Its because if we are going to change the culture we need to encourage schools to report this shit, not hide it. I really think if the NCAA punishes MSU for what Nassar did, then it just encourages other schools to hide this stuff and continue the culture of deny, deny, deny to try to avoid those punishments themselves.

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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Actually, I know how the NCAA fucks this up. They punish MSU in the sports where Nassar treated athletes, victimizing the athletes again.

    I remember in the Penn State thread there was an option for athletes to transfer, which is may be a solution.

    Unfortunately anything less than burning corrupt institutions to the ground in situations like this allow the status quo to remain in tact, eventually letting another Nassar replace the old one because the old guard is totally ok with predators accessing their students.

    This may also be a shield MSU are counting on so they can bounce back.

    The problem with that, and when they were discussing the PSU death penalty, is that you're still asking kids who had nothing to do with all this to completely uproot their lives and college education.

    I'm still waiting to hear how that isn't a punishment for them, versus the mostly wealthy administrators and coaches who can way more easily afford the disruption in their lives, who are actually to blame.

    How do you punish the administration appropriately and save the kids at the same time? We have to work with the existing power structure within sports, which is a very flawed process.

    Of course this is punishment for them, though indirectly. That doesn't mean the right option isn't the death penalty.

    At least those kids get a chance to live their lives somewhere else, that's a heck of a better deal than what the victims under Nassar got.

    The.obvious solution seems to me to be to hold everyone responsible of negligence individually criminally and civily responsible? And make sure they all get fired at a minimum?

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    I think the NCAA punishing MSU for what Nassar did is wrong, but not because of how it would affect the current students there. Its because if we are going to change the culture we need to encourage schools to report this shit, not hide it. I really think if the NCAA punishes MSU for what Nassar did, then it just encourages other schools to hide this stuff and continue the culture of deny, deny, deny to try to avoid those punishments themselves.

    Except no small part of what MSU needs to be punished for is the fact that they didn't nail this guy when problems were first reported.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    I’ve heard some suggestions that the tone-deaf (to put it politely) responses from MSU officials are an attempt to not say anything that might imply culpability.

    That seems like bullshit. How hard would it be to say something like this:

    “These young women have my deepest sympathy. Due to ongoing litigation, I’m afraid I cannot comment further at this time.”

    Simon shows up Day One last week, says that and only that, I think she’s better off than she currently is. Not necessarily safe, but better off.

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    I think the NCAA punishing MSU for what Nassar did is wrong, but not because of how it would affect the current students there. Its because if we are going to change the culture we need to encourage schools to report this shit, not hide it. I really think if the NCAA punishes MSU for what Nassar did, then it just encourages other schools to hide this stuff and continue the culture of deny, deny, deny to try to avoid those punishments themselves.

    Except no small part of what MSU needs to be punished for is the fact that they didn't nail this guy when problems were first reported.

    Sorry, I left my answer to that implied in my previous post, and didn't outright state it. What the NCAA needs to do is rewrite the rules so that they punish schools for failing to report crimes like this, NOT for the crime itself. Right now the NCAA punishes schools for the crime, but that just encourages the schools to hide the crime. If instead they punish individuals for the crime but the school for failing to report the crime, Schools will be much more likely to immediately out the criminal rather than hide it because in that case outting the criminal will protect the school, rather than the current situation where hiding the criminal is how they protect the school.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    I think the NCAA punishing MSU for what Nassar did is wrong, but not because of how it would affect the current students there. Its because if we are going to change the culture we need to encourage schools to report this shit, not hide it. I really think if the NCAA punishes MSU for what Nassar did, then it just encourages other schools to hide this stuff and continue the culture of deny, deny, deny to try to avoid those punishments themselves.

    Except no small part of what MSU needs to be punished for is the fact that they didn't nail this guy when problems were first reported.

    Sorry, I left my answer to that implied in my previous post, and didn't outright state it. What the NCAA needs to do is rewrite the rules so that they punish schools for failing to report crimes like this, NOT for the crime itself. Right now the NCAA punishes schools for the crime, but that just encourages the schools to hide the crime. If instead they punish individuals for the crime but the school for failing to report the crime, Schools will be much more likely to immediately out the criminal rather than hide it because in that case outting the criminal will protect the school, rather than the current situation where hiding the criminal is how they protect the school.

    Yeah, a big thing the NCAA needs to do is make sure there are processes to prevent things like this from happening, and to ensure that if abuse (or anything) like this does happen that there are avenues for reporting it and books are thrown and hammers dropped as a result. That said, if reporting happens and nothing comes of it then the school needs to burn.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    It's been pointed out that Simon is currently the chair of the NCAA Executive Committee. How impartial do you think the NCAA will be?

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    $20 says she won't recuse herself from the process until someone calls her on it. And even then she'll protest having to do so.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    $20 says she won't recuse herself from the process until someone calls her on it. And even then she'll protest having to do so.

    $40 says she never does

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    And in "MSU finding new lows" news, one of the victims testifies that she had no choice to go public - thanks to MSU effectively outing her:



    What the fuck is wrong with the administration there? Did they not think that "hey, sending a PI to ask questions" wasn't going to clue her teammates in on what was going on? I guess this is all part of that "vigorous defense" that MSU is being "forced" to perform by their insurer.

    Sickening.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I had heard they were doing that, didn't realize she was going to speak.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I had heard they were doing that, didn't realize she was going to speak.

    After MSU outed her, she probably thought that there was nothing to lose by testifying.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    To give you an idea of how today went, the quote from Judge Aquilina is "I just signed your death warrant"

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Nassar has been officially sentenced. That said, one part worries me:
    Afterward, Judge Rosemarie Aquilina read a letter Nassar had written to the court objecting to the length of the sentencing hearing. In issuing her sentence, Aquilina told Nassar, “I just signed your death warrant.”

    I get the reason she said that (given Nassar's age, the sentence is effectively life without parole), but given the history of child molesters being killed in jail, her saying that strikes me as inopportune and potentially opening a door to appeals.

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