Larry Nassar, USA Gymnastics, and Michigan State : Sports Abuse Scandals

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    The full quote reads a little more that he'll spend the rest of his natural life in bars.

    “You do not deserve to walk outside a prison again,” she added. “I just signed your death warrant.”

    Effectively saying the length of time will mean he'll never be free.

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  • descdesc the '87 stick up kids Registered User regular
    It does seem like a needlessly Dirty Harry comment from a Justice.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    The full quote reads a little more that he'll spend the rest of his natural life in bars.

    “You do not deserve to walk outside a prison again,” she added. “I just signed your death warrant.”

    Effectively saying the length of time will mean he'll never be free.

    Yes, but the fact that the term "death warrant" is usually referring to an order of execution makes the comment problematic. I get the emotion and reasoning behind it, but it's not something a judge should be saying.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Afterward, Judge Rosemarie Aquilina read a letter Nassar had written to the court objecting to the length of the sentencing hearing.

    ... Too fucking bad?

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    Nassar has been officially sentenced. That said, one part worries me:
    Afterward, Judge Rosemarie Aquilina read a letter Nassar had written to the court objecting to the length of the sentencing hearing. In issuing her sentence, Aquilina told Nassar, “I just signed your death warrant.”

    I get the reason she said that (given Nassar's age, the sentence is effectively life without parole), but given the history of child molesters being killed in jail, her saying that strikes me as inopportune and potentially opening a door to appeals.
    On what grounds? That she said a mean thing?

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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    The full quote reads a little more that he'll spend the rest of his natural life in bars.

    “You do not deserve to walk outside a prison again,” she added. “I just signed your death warrant.”

    Effectively saying the length of time will mean he'll never be free.

    Yes, but the fact that the term "death warrant" is usually referring to an order of execution makes the comment problematic. I get the emotion and reasoning behind it, but it's not something a judge should be saying.

    I have no idea where you are pulling this from.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    The full quote reads a little more that he'll spend the rest of his natural life in bars.

    “You do not deserve to walk outside a prison again,” she added. “I just signed your death warrant.”

    Effectively saying the length of time will mean he'll never be free.

    Yes, but the fact that the term "death warrant" is usually referring to an order of execution makes the comment problematic. I get the emotion and reasoning behind it, but it's not something a judge should be saying.

    Reading part of the letter he sent the judge that she read into record, its no less than what this rapist piece of garbage deserves.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    The danger is it leaves an appeal open on the grounds of being improperly biased against him or something along those lines. I am not sure how well something like that would hold up but it would have been best had she just passed the sentence and been done with it. Because if this ever goes to appeal and he can get it retried the 4 days of witness testimony mean he could not get an impartial jury anywhere ever again.

  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Wait a second, they've already had a verdict right?

    The judge saying harsh shit doesn't lead to a mistrial or anything if a verdict has already been delivered. There is no recourse for the piece of shit.

    Edit - NBC News has a gif of the judge throwing aside Nassar's stupid fucking letter, via Twitter embed.
    Edit Edit - Scratch that, here's a video of the moment. Editor at ESPN provides.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Okay, I get that he is a child rapist garbage person, but what the fuck? Who the fuck did you think was going to read your letter?

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Panem, circenses, credulous descent. A Gadarene charge into endarkenment Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Wait a second, they've already had a verdict right?

    The judge saying harsh shit doesn't lead to a mistrial or anything if a verdict has already been delivered. There is no recourse for the piece of shit.

    Edit - NBC News has a gif of the judge throwing aside Nassar's stupid fucking letter, via Twitter embed.
    Edit Edit - Scratch that, here's a video of the moment. Editor at ESPN provides.

    Holy shit

    Make. Time.
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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Okay, I get that he is a child rapist garbage person, but what the fuck? Who the fuck did you think was going to read your letter?
    After the last letter he wrote about how hearing the testimonies was 'bad for his mental health' or whatever? Seriously, launch him into the sun. He's so grossly disconnected and thinks only of himself at any given moment.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Wait a second, they've already had a verdict right?

    The judge saying harsh shit doesn't lead to a mistrial or anything if a verdict has already been delivered. There is no recourse for the piece of shit.

    Edit - NBC News has a gif of the judge throwing aside Nassar's stupid fucking letter, via Twitter embed.
    Edit Edit - Scratch that, here's a video of the moment. Editor at ESPN provides.

    He pled out (hence her comment at the end, pointing out that she was more than happy to try him.)

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    The danger is it leaves an appeal open on the grounds of being improperly biased against him or something along those lines. I am not sure how well something like that would hold up but it would have been best had she just passed the sentence and been done with it. Because if this ever goes to appeal and he can get it retried the 4 days of witness testimony mean he could not get an impartial jury anywhere ever again.

    You'd have grounds if there was a trial, but there was not. He struck a plea deal with the prosecution. The plea deal was accepted. So long as the judge sentences within the grounds of the plea deal, there's nothing to appeal based on the judge being mean to him.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Okay, I get that he is a child rapist garbage person, but what the fuck? Who the fuck did you think was going to read your letter?
    After the last letter he wrote about how hearing the testimonies was 'bad for his mental health' or whatever? Seriously, launch him into the sun. He's so grossly disconnected and thinks only of himself at any given moment.

    It's not a matter of disconnect, but of control. He's trying to assert control one last time over his victims. The judge was having none of it, hence why she asked him if he wanted to withdraw his plea (and thus go to trial.)

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I don't know how you can appeal a judge based on comments she made in sentencing when you already plead guilty. Like there wasn't a trial where he could claim she treated him unfairly, her entire job was to hear testimony and sentence him.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Panem, circenses, credulous descent. A Gadarene charge into endarkenment Registered User regular
    Having been in front of judges personally and seen others do the same, I can say the idea of "disconnected discompassionate judge" is far more common than the actual existence of such things.

    They can and often do use emotional judgments when dealing with people, because the law can only be so thorough. Not everyone who steps in front of a judge perfectly aligns with law or precedent.

    In this case, I feel the judge was justified in her catharsis.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    The danger is it leaves an appeal open on the grounds of being improperly biased against him or something along those lines. I am not sure how well something like that would hold up but it would have been best had she just passed the sentence and been done with it. Because if this ever goes to appeal and he can get it retried the 4 days of witness testimony mean he could not get an impartial jury anywhere ever again.

    You'd have grounds if there was a trial, but there was not. He struck a plea deal with the prosecution. The plea deal was accepted. So long as the judge sentences within the grounds of the plea deal, there's nothing to appeal based on the judge being mean to him.

    The issue isnt that she said something mean, it's that she made a comment that could be implied that she was sending him to face some "jailhouse justice", which is problematic.

    Do realize that Nassar will be placed into administrative segregation, which means that he's going to be put into solitary confinement, as it's the only way to assure he stays alive.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    I kinda hope he gets into genpop as this whole issue would be handled rapidly I would expect. Still it has to be some comfort that this freak is going to be sitting in solitary for the rest of his natural life.

  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    The danger is it leaves an appeal open on the grounds of being improperly biased against him or something along those lines. I am not sure how well something like that would hold up but it would have been best had she just passed the sentence and been done with it. Because if this ever goes to appeal and he can get it retried the 4 days of witness testimony mean he could not get an impartial jury anywhere ever again.

    You'd have grounds if there was a trial, but there was not. He struck a plea deal with the prosecution. The plea deal was accepted. So long as the judge sentences within the grounds of the plea deal, there's nothing to appeal based on the judge being mean to him.

    The issue isnt that she said something mean, it's that she made a comment that could be implied that she was sending him to face some "jailhouse justice", which is problematic.

    Do realize that Nassar will be placed into administrative segregation, which means that he's going to be put into solitary confinement, as it's the only way to assure he stays alive.
    The comment was in the context of "you're old, this is a long sentence, so you'll old age before you get out of prison."

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  • descdesc the '87 stick up kids Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    I kinda hope he gets into genpop as this whole issue would be handled rapidly I would expect.

    Okay but "get killed in prison" wasn't his sentence and it flies directly in the face of having a judge assign a punishment based on your verdict if we just let whatever happen to criminals we especially dislike.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, what she said was not in a vacuum the comment on a death sentence was related to how much time in prison she handed him, not hoping he'd be prison justiced, you'd have to literally divorce what she said from the previous sentence to get any prison justice from her comment.

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    I think some people are riding a pessimism high and contemplating ways they will be let down by this creep getting away with things somehow.

    Guys, just enjoy the moment. Until it happens - if at all - don't worry about it.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Judges should be careful with what they say at sentencing, yes. A sentence can be appealed even if it was part of a plea deal (the remedy would be resentencing or defendant could potentially rescind the deal and go to trial).

    This judge's comment is probably not grounds for appeal, imo.

    She could potentially face a complaint to whatever judicial board oversees fed judges, but again imo that is unlikely.

    Here is an example of a judge that crossed the line here re child molester sentencing comments:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/02/jackson_county_judge_tim_barna.html

    Note that this judge told the defendant that he was a piece of shit and had no soul, as well as commenting that he would rot in prison.

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Judges should be careful with what they say at sentencing, yes. A sentence can be appealed even if it was part of a plea deal (the remedy would be resentencing or defendant could potentially rescind the deal and go to trial).

    This judge's comment is probably not grounds for appeal, imo.

    She could potentially face a complaint to whatever judicial board oversees fed judges, but again imo that is unlikely.

    Here is an example of a judge that crossed the line here re child molester sentencing comments:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/02/jackson_county_judge_tim_barna.html

    Note that this judge told the defendant that he was a piece of shit and had no soul, as well as commenting that he would rot in prison.
    Is a sanctioning just a verbal rebuking? Or does it actually carry weight as far as "you're on notice" for job security goes?

    Either way, yeah that example you gave is more harsh and direct than what happened here.

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    I feel like charging and firing every administrative official even remotely associated with this is the only reasonable reaction.

    Edit: I mean mandatory reporters had little kids report rape dozens of times, and they did nothing.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    USOC is demanding that the entirety of USA Gymnastics' leadership stand down. Of note is the threat of the nuclear option being used if USAG does not comply:
    We have strongly considered decertifying USAG as a National Governing Body. But USA Gymnastics includes clubs and athletes who had no hand in this and who need to be supported. We believe it would hurt more than help the athletes and their sport. But we will pursue decertification if USA Gymnastics does not fully embrace the necessary changes in their governance structure along with other mandated changes under review right now.

    That...is a pretty direct threat to USAG - either eject your leadership, or you won't have anything to lead.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    It would have to be very very bad for a judge to have their job threatened by the judicial board and/or a bar complaint. Usual sanctions in that type if case are just like, hey you did a bad thing don't do it again.

    I would love it if similar sanctions occurred for all the heinous things I've heard judges say to victims over the years, but that's a discussion for a different day.

    Point here is that the Nassar sentencing judge's comment was barely problematic. Everyone in that courtroom knows he will die in prison because of the length of his sentence.

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  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    I really can't comprehend how Simon still has her job. I've never seen a more obviously doomed leader that didn't get it. How do you sit there and watch every newspaper, state senators, state AG, and your own student government ask for your resignation and think "Nah, I'll be fine". The board's statement of support in her probably doomed most of them as well. I'm hoping the Friday protest does the trick, but if it doesn't they need to keep going until Simon is gone at the very least.

    The attitude of Simon and the board of trustees are just great examples of the disgusting arrogance that exists in these kinds of people. We are the executives. We bring in all the money. We do not have to listen to you little people, we aren't going anywhere. They just cannot comprehend that they might be held accountable for anything. I can't wait to see them proven wrong.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I imagine she must know something we don't that stays the boards hand. Which means she's probably covering up another awful thing.

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  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    Nassar has been officially sentenced. That said, one part worries me:
    Afterward, Judge Rosemarie Aquilina read a letter Nassar had written to the court objecting to the length of the sentencing hearing. In issuing her sentence, Aquilina told Nassar, “I just signed your death warrant.”

    I get the reason she said that (given Nassar's age, the sentence is effectively life without parole), but given the history of child molesters being killed in jail, her saying that strikes me as inopportune and potentially opening a door to appeals.

    I guarantee you that the court of appeals will bend over backwards to uphold the sentence

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    I really can't comprehend how Simon still has her job. I've never seen a more obviously doomed leader that didn't get it. How do you sit there and watch every newspaper, state senators, state AG, and your own student government ask for your resignation and think "Nah, I'll be fine". The board's statement of support in her probably doomed most of them as well. I'm hoping the Friday protest does the trick, but if it doesn't they need to keep going until Simon is gone at the very least.

    The attitude of Simon and the board of trustees are just great examples of the disgusting arrogance that exists in these kinds of people. We are the executives. We bring in all the money. We do not have to listen to you little people, we aren't going anywhere. They just cannot comprehend that they might be held accountable for anything. I can't wait to see them proven wrong.

    Because they believe that this will blow over. One thing to keep an eye out for is the upcoming hearing in the civil cases, where the plaintiffs will be requesting discovery against MSU. One target - the full version of the Title IX report against Nassar, which was never released.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    If ESPN's reporting is accurate, it's hard to see how the Simon and the Michigan State Athletic Director survive once discovery starts.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Pierce goes Sparty delenda est:
    Burn it all down. That is the calm and reasoned conclusion to which I have come as one horror story after another unspooled in the courtroom. Nobody employed in the upper echelons at USA Gymnastics, or at the United States Olympic Committee, or at Michigan State University should still have a job. If accessorial or conspiracy charges plausibly can be lodged against those people, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Those people should come out of civil courts wearing barrels. Their descendants should be answering motions in the 22nd Century. In fact, I can argue convincingly that none of those three institutions should continue to exist in its current form. USA Gymnastics and the USOC should lose their non-profit status forthwith. Michigan State should lose its status within the NCAA for at least five years. American gymnastics is no longer a sport. It’s a conspiracy of pedophiles and their enablers.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    I really can't comprehend how Simon still has her job. I've never seen a more obviously doomed leader that didn't get it. How do you sit there and watch every newspaper, state senators, state AG, and your own student government ask for your resignation and think "Nah, I'll be fine". The board's statement of support in her probably doomed most of them as well. I'm hoping the Friday protest does the trick, but if it doesn't they need to keep going until Simon is gone at the very least.

    The attitude of Simon and the board of trustees are just great examples of the disgusting arrogance that exists in these kinds of people. We are the executives. We bring in all the money. We do not have to listen to you little people, we aren't going anywhere. They just cannot comprehend that they might be held accountable for anything. I can't wait to see them proven wrong.

    Because they believe that this will blow over. One thing to keep an eye out for is the upcoming hearing in the civil cases, where the plaintiffs will be requesting discovery against MSU. One target - the full version of the Title IX report against Nassar, which was never released.

    One of those hearings was actually today in Grand Rapids. But it's almost impossible to search because of the sentencing hearing dominating the news cycle.

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    Pierce goes Sparty delenda est:
    Burn it all down. That is the calm and reasoned conclusion to which I have come as one horror story after another unspooled in the courtroom. Nobody employed in the upper echelons at USA Gymnastics, or at the United States Olympic Committee, or at Michigan State University should still have a job. If accessorial or conspiracy charges plausibly can be lodged against those people, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Those people should come out of civil courts wearing barrels. Their descendants should be answering motions in the 22nd Century. In fact, I can argue convincingly that none of those three institutions should continue to exist in its current form. USA Gymnastics and the USOC should lose their non-profit status forthwith. Michigan State should lose its status within the NCAA for at least five years. American gymnastics is no longer a sport. It’s a conspiracy of pedophiles and their enablers.
    I take it that's Latin for "goes nuclear." They're not wrong. There were so many chances over so many years for intervention and it never happened. When an institution is so thoroughly corrupt it's easier to fix it by dismantling it than trying to keep it operating.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Pierce goes Sparty delenda est:
    Burn it all down. That is the calm and reasoned conclusion to which I have come as one horror story after another unspooled in the courtroom. Nobody employed in the upper echelons at USA Gymnastics, or at the United States Olympic Committee, or at Michigan State University should still have a job. If accessorial or conspiracy charges plausibly can be lodged against those people, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Those people should come out of civil courts wearing barrels. Their descendants should be answering motions in the 22nd Century. In fact, I can argue convincingly that none of those three institutions should continue to exist in its current form. USA Gymnastics and the USOC should lose their non-profit status forthwith. Michigan State should lose its status within the NCAA for at least five years. American gymnastics is no longer a sport. It’s a conspiracy of pedophiles and their enablers.
    I take it that's Latin for "goes nuclear." They're not wrong. There were so many chances over so many years for intervention and it never happened. When an institution is so thoroughly corrupt it's easier to fix it by dismantling it than trying to keep it operating.

    "Must be destroyed," actually. The city it was originally said about was razed to the ground with no stone left standing on another, the earth salted, and the survivors commanded never to rebuild.

    Sounds about right.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Izzone (MSU's basketball student section) is trying to get everyone to wear teal (color of sexual assault awareness, UCLA gymnasts did something similar this weekend) to Friday's home game as a statement of support for Nassar's victims "because the university's leaders have completely failed at that."

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Working in academia, there's one place where it will truly hurt the university: Money.

    Enrollment Rates, retention rates, graduation rates, alumni fundraising, athletic fundraising.

    Those are the levers:
    Don't attend.
    Quit after the current semester
    Don't graduate.
    Don't donate.
    Don't attend athletic events.

    Now, once you are in the system it's a bit hard to pull out that harshly. After all, your whole future is on the line. But man.. can you imagine the message it would send if no one attended the athletic events?

    You can be seen without being present. :)

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Izzone (MSU's basketball student section) is trying to get everyone to wear teal (color of sexual assault awareness, UCLA gymnasts did something similar this weekend) to Friday's home game as a statement of support for Nassar's victims "because the university's leaders have completely failed at that."

    Unfortunately, their namesake is one of them. “I hope they got right guy”??????

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