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[Board games] I choose poorly.

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Posts

  • jergarmarjergarmar inside your hollow manRegistered User regular
    Real-life relevance could indeed use a lot of fleshing out, because it's basically the "fudge-it" category that attempts to separate every obstacle you encounter in day-to-day life from a game. However knowing the intent doesn't make it any less fuzzy in his presentation, and yes, absolutely, it could have used a lot more time in the oven. But I'm still lost as to how we're arriving at playing a game professionally making the game no longer a game?

    I think I kinda get what discrider is saying about professional game-players. In the article it seems to imply that games hinge on "no real-world significance". So if a football team is in the Super Bowl, the outcome has real significance to the players, so it's not a game. And so discrider said, more or less, that it seems silly that a professional football player could not enjoy football as a game ("for fun") if the outcome has real significance.

    It brings up strange situations: maybe we're watching football as a game, because the outcome has no significance to us, but the players are NOT playing football as a game, because the outcome matters to them. Which would put watching football into exactly the same category as watching a reality TV show: we're watching someone else's "real life".

    Maaaaayyybe someone could argue this point effectively, and thus give credence to that position of the article? But at the very least there's none of these considerations in the article, so as it stands it's a weak point.

    When I was a child, I had a fever...
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  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Fry wrote: »
    I think if you're a paid e-sports professional, then playing Quake or League of Legends or whatever at your day job is not a game, it's work. You could still go home and play a few rounds of LoL with your friends for fun and that would be a game, but when you're on TV playing for cash and have contracts and sponsors that care about your performance, it's not a game.

    Same goes for regular sports, for that matter. I could go play a game of baseball with my friends, but to a pro player in MLB, it's not a game.

    I think it also depends who you're playing against?
    A pro player playing against a pro player is likely testing their capabilities in ways playing seriously against a casual player will not.
    The first can be fun, the second will not be.

    discrider on
    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    This may be just a restated 'Impression of Agency' though.

    So that knocks my definition down to:
    Active goals (goals must require action and not readily acheivable)
    Impression of Agency (must do the thing because you enjoy it, and must think you control the outcome somewhat)

    discrider on
    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Look, if playing chess using elderly human beings as living pieces outdoors in the scorching hot summer sun is the wrong definition of a game, then I don't wanna be right!

    >.>

    <.<

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  • jergarmarjergarmar inside your hollow manRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    I think it depends who you're playing against?
    A pro player playing against a pro player is likely testing their capabilities in ways playing seriously against a casual player will not.
    The first can be fun, the second will not be.

    Well, you just argued against your previous point. Does "fun" mean "not serious", or does it mean "enjoyable"?

    Adding the idea of "fun" probably adds an even MORE ambiguous and subjective term into the discussion, exactly what we were complaining about in the article.

    When I was a child, I had a fever...
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    mysticjuicer
  • mysticjuicermysticjuicer [he/him] I'm a muscle wizard and I cast P U N C HRegistered User regular
    I think we can at least all agree that games are a type of sandwich.

    narwhal wrote:
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  • RendRend Registered User regular
    Just because you are paid to play a game does not mean it ceases to be a game or that you cease to call it "play" when you interact with that game. It just ALSO counts as work, and the stakes are typically a lot higher when you do play.

    Honestly I feel like the Real Life category in that article is pretty much hopelessly ill-conceived. They're trying to get at something about stakes and replayability and abstractness I feel like, but really miss the mark on it. I basically agree with the other categories being useful descriptions of what is and is not a game though.

    jergarmarArcticLancermysticjuicerJustTeeKristmas Kthulhu
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    I think we can at least all agree that games are a type of sandwich.
    Imagine that a game is a car...

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    PSN: Hahnsoo | MHGU: Hahnsoo, Switch FC: SW-0085-2679-5212
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  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    I think trying to create a rigid set of criteria to define games is going to be an exercise in futility.

    I always prefer more fluid, context driven approaches to categorization.

    jakobagger
  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    Games are like art or porn...

    Pancho needs your prayers it's true
    But save a few for Lefty too
    mysticjuicer
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    jergarmar wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    I think it depends who you're playing against?
    A pro player playing against a pro player is likely testing their capabilities in ways playing seriously against a casual player will not.
    The first can be fun, the second will not be.

    Well, you just argued against your previous point. Does "fun" mean "not serious", or does it mean "enjoyable"?

    Adding the idea of "fun" probably adds an even MORE ambiguous and subjective term into the discussion, exactly what we were complaining about in the article.

    Serious play can be fun, but only if the players are of equivalent skill level. (Or player and goal are of equivalent skill/difficulty)
    Otherwise serious (concerted attempt to win above all else) play tends to result in a loss of the impression of agency.
    Either because:
    - the goal now presents no challenge
    - the goal is indomitable despite your best efforts
    - the goal is indomitable due to factors outside your control

    The alternative is not playing to win, which is also fun, but a different type of fun.
    (Tentatively this may be adjusting the goal dynamically to avoid the above?)

    discrider on
    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Like, it would be shocking to learn that we would have truly dramatically different notions of what is and is not a game. We might argue over something pedantic like whether or not Minecraft is a game and the grey areas within that, but before we started getting high concept up in here, would anyone in this thread have looked at a baseball game and suggested "Those people aren't playing a game." with a straight face? Would you still do it now? >_>

    I'm 100% with Rend, and think Ah_Pook makes an interesting suggestion, though I'm not quite sure if I agree or not ... Hmmm ...

    ArcticLancer on
    mysticjuicer
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Depends on if the people are playing baseball because they've been forced to.
    Depends on if the people are playing baseball against six year olds and absolutely demolishing them and there's tears everywhere, and that sounds kind of fun actually

    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    I'm 100% with Rend, and think Ah_Pook makes an interesting suggestion, though I'm not quite sure if I agree or not ... Hmmm ...

    Mainly I was playing the straight man, but no one knocked down my immaculately set up set up ;)

    Pancho needs your prayers it's true
    But save a few for Lefty too
    ArcticLancer
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Well, to be less glib.
    I would not have called a bunch of teenagers standing on a pitch bored a game.
    And a one-sided match is also not a game, although on the surface it may appear to be.

    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Well, to be less glib.
    I would not have called a bunch of teenagers standing on a pitch bored a game.
    And a one-sided match is also not a game, although on the surface it may appear to be.

    If a one sided match is not a game

    then why do the losers of that match type

    bg

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  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    I guess I never plays games, for I slaughter all my foes with ease.

    :(

    Inquisitor on
    ElvenshaeJustTee
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    Well, to be less glib.
    I would not have called a bunch of teenagers standing on a pitch bored a game.
    And a one-sided match is also not a game, although on the surface it may appear to be.

    If a one sided match is not a game

    then why do the losers of that match type

    bg

    That would be my fault.
    Sorry.

    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    I picked up Fits in a trade and just tried it out, and man it's gonna be a hit with my wife and I I can tell. It's a Knizia game from maybe 10 years ago that's basically Tetris the board game. If you like puzzly games like Karuba or Number 9 where everyone has the same input (through a drawn card in this case that shows what piece everyone uses) and tries to solve their own little puzzle with it then you gotta check this one out. Dead simple rules, plays quick, and who doesn't love Tetris? Played it twice in a row just now which is always a good sign.

    FITSGames.jpg

    (Not exaggerating the Tetrisness of it)

    Pancho needs your prayers it's true
    But save a few for Lefty too
    Fry38thDoecrimsoncoyotemysticjuicerElvenshaeJustTee
  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    How many does it play?



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    crimsoncoyote
  • JonBobJonBob Registered User regular
    FITS is great! I strongly recommend putting together the three expansions that Ted Alspach designed for it. All told, this gives you sixteen cards, so you can play a random set of four each time for great variety.

    https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/56606/mots-more-same
    https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/104229/print-and-play-file-lots-expansion-fits
    https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/104231/print-and-play-file-bots-expansion-fits

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    ElvenshaeAh_Pook
  • JonBobJonBob Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    How many does it play?
    Four with one set, though it would scale perfectly well to any number of players if you had multiple copies.

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    Ah_PookVyolynceJustTee
  • FuselageFuselage Bantha Three ValhallaRegistered User regular
    Mountains of Madness just landed at my house. After watching Polygon play it on YouTube I figured it would be good for a play or two. We'll make sure nobody goes without speaking for too long, though.

  • AetherAether Registered User regular
    Played Freedom: The Underground Railroad. I liked it a lot. We lost in the last turn, we got enough slaves to Canada, but we couldn't buy all the support tokens. It was good puzzle, we tried to make sure we didn't lose anybody, and we were going well until about round 5.

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Oh nice, looks like FFG got the Warhammer Quest card game system revamped. Heroes of Terrinoth.

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  • DarricDarric Santa MonicaRegistered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Oh nice, looks like FFG got the Warhammer Quest card game system revamped. Heroes of Terrinoth.

    Finally! Been waiting for them to do something with that system.

    Visskar
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Played Cosmic Encounter and Summoner Wars yesterday and both ruled, they’re so fun

    And we broke out Skull and that game is ALSO great

    All winners yesterday

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    CaptainPeacockjergarmarElvenshaeKristmas Kthulhu
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Man I'm feeling dumb. Tried twice now to start up a solo game of Spirit Island for the first time, but I keep getting stumped by the setup and cards. It's feeling like one of those games that's hard to get into unless you have someone who already knows teaching you. Gonna try a walkthrough video next.

    JustTee
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    Man I'm feeling dumb. Tried twice now to start up a solo game of Spirit Island for the first time, but I keep getting stumped by the setup and cards. It's feeling like one of those games that's hard to get into unless you have someone who already knows teaching you. Gonna try a walkthrough video next.

    From memory, so I might be missing something:
    1) Choose a color and get those wooden discs and cardboard shields.

    2) Choose your spirit; get your specific power cards (with your picture on the back). If playing with power progression (learning game), get the color-coded cards for your "easy"-level spirit as well (2 major and 5 minor), put them in the order indicated, and set the rest aside as you will not need them. Otherwise shuffle the two decks and keep them handy.

    3) Choose a board at random. Place discs on the board according to the back.of your spirit board. Flip board over and place remaining discs on the spaces provided, leaving the leftmost in each row open. If you do this right, you will cover every space but those two and have no more discs. If you do not, check your placement again.

    4) Find the symbols on the board that tell you whete the Dahan (wooden huts), blight (plastic discs), and starting invaders (plastic towns & cities) go and put them there. Each board should have 6 Dahan, 1 blight, 2 towns, and 1 city (which is always in area 2, on the coast).

    5) Remove one card from each tier (I, II, and III) of the invader deck. Shuffle each tier seperately and stack them in order. Reveal the top card and place 1 Explorer (plastic jerk) in each ondicated zone (will be 2 per board). Put the card in the "build" slot on the track.

    6) Set up rest of invader board (fear, blight) as indicated. Set up the fear deck with 3 cards face-down on the "Victory!" space, then the Level 3 divider, then 3 more cards, the Level 2 divider, and finally 3 more cards. Put the remaining cards away.

    7) It's your first Spirit phase. Good luck!

    JustTee
  • JustTeeJustTee Registered User regular
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    Man I'm feeling dumb. Tried twice now to start up a solo game of Spirit Island for the first time, but I keep getting stumped by the setup and cards. It's feeling like one of those games that's hard to get into unless you have someone who already knows teaching you. Gonna try a walkthrough video next.

    From memory, so I might be missing something:
    1) Choose a color and get those wooden discs and cardboard shields.

    2) Choose your spirit; get your specific power cards (with your picture on the back). If playing with power progression (learning game), get the color-coded cards for your "easy"-level spirit as well (2 major and 5 minor), put them in the order indicated, and set the rest aside as you will not need them. Otherwise shuffle the two decks and keep them handy.

    3) Choose a board at random. Place discs on the board according to the back.of your spirit board. Flip board over and place remaining discs on the spaces provided, leaving the leftmost in each row open. If you do this right, you will cover every space but those two and have no more discs. If you do not, check your placement again.

    4) Find the symbols on the board that tell you whete the Dahan (wooden huts), blight (plastic discs), and starting invaders (plastic towns & cities) go and put them there. Each board should have 6 Dahan, 1 blight, 2 towns, and 1 city (which is always in area 2, on the coast).

    5) Remove one card from each tier (I, II, and III) of the invader deck. Shuffle each tier seperately and stack them in order. Reveal the top card and place 1 Explorer (plastic jerk) in each ondicated zone (will be 2 per board). Put the card in the "build" slot on the track.

    6) Set up rest of invader board (fear, blight) as indicated. Set up the fear deck with 3 cards face-down on the "Victory!" space, then the Level 3 divider, then 3 more cards, the Level 2 divider, and finally 3 more cards. Put the remaining cards away.

    7) It's your first Spirit phase. Good luck!

    The only thing I have to add to that is that you might want to play one of the 4 basic spirits to start. Also, your "basic" action (the growth action, the first part of the Spirit phase) is actually a different set of options for every spirit. When I was first learning the game with someone, we didn't realize we didn't have the same set of growth options and got very confused for the first 2 turns as we didn't understand why the other person didn't understand what we were talking about.

    The initial learning portion of spirit island is a little crazy, but once you get over that hump, the iconography and design really start to come together and things start to make a lot of intuitive sense. Good luck! :)

    Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
    Vyolynce
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    I think a big part is that the print & play rules are total garbage. They don't explain setup at all. On top of that, they don't explain any components and the only pictures are of power cards.

    I was going to pick this up to play with my father since co-op games are a big past time of ours when I visit, but his limit for rule complexity is Eldritch Horror. Think I'm shelving this. I'll probably take another half stab at getting past the setup once a week. I might start a game by next month!

    (of course, AFTER the 8 escape the room games we picked up last month (half Exit, half Unlock). One of the few games we can play with the whole fam)

    MrBody on
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Looking forward to trying this little game called Scythe tonight. It's quite underground, you've probably not heard of it.

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  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    Remember that it's a race and you'll be fine. Once a couple people have 3 stars out the game is probably nearing it's end, and they will be angling for a big turn to end it with 2-3 stars dropped simultaneously.

    At least that's how it plays out every time I play. Presumably it could play out differently, but in my experience is not a "play the long game" kind of game.

    Pancho needs your prayers it's true
    But save a few for Lefty too
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    I know there's a Netrunner thread but still relevant here: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/6/8/jacking-out/

    I'm glad it got a second (and certainly longer) run, no pun intended.

  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    Didn't they release a new core set late last year and make a big deal about starting rotation? Seems dubiously timed in retrospect if they're killing the whole shebang.

    Pancho needs your prayers it's true
    But save a few for Lefty too
  • JonBobJonBob Registered User regular
    They did. I'm sure they were hoping the license would get renewed, but the price ended up too high for them.

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    Fishman
  • HydroSqueegeeHydroSqueegee ULTRACAT!!!™®© Registered User regular
    So I got wave 2 of my Green Horde pledge last week. I still haven't opened the box. I think I finally may have hit peak zombicide and burned out. :(

    zW0NKxe.png
    Fuselage
  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    Got a copy of Reef Encounter from a trade today. Not sure when I'll get it to the table but it seems really interesting. And odd. It's a real mean looking tile laying game, vaguely T&Eish, from the designer of Keyflower. Thematically it's about growing a coral reef.

    Pancho needs your prayers it's true
    But save a few for Lefty too
    Mahnmut
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited June 2018
    Hmmm, Scythe was okay I suppose.

    There seems a distinct lack of player interaction beyond not offering easy targets, and learning efficient orders of building on those complex boards seems pretty key. I was utterly thrashed as I was very inefficient the first few turns while feeling out the play space, and because I was only told that defeated mechs only retreat to their start space the turn after I pounced on a pile of resources next to a starting space, which were of course almost immediately recaptured as I wasn't prepared for the counter attack.

    Also the bonus from neighbours bottom actions thing wasn't explained until a bit in to the game and they seem like quite a big thing.

    I'd play again but I'm not going to rush to it.

    italics

    Jam Warrior on
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This discussion has been closed.