Nomic [GAME ON]: Kusuguttai's Prop 320 - WAITING 4.41pm

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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    It does look pretty clear to me that proposals are to be numbered:
    108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.
    If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

    Zek on
  • MonkeybombMonkeybomb Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Let's say I'm addressing nap with those two questions.

    Monkeybomb on
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  • MiracleManSMiracleManS __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    Monkeybomb wrote: »
    Two things, unrelated to the active prop.

    First, how are we designating "mutable" and "immutable" among the newly-adopted rules? I'm not sure I understand how the 100 and 200 series of rules will interact with the 300 series and what the purpose of those numbers really is.

    Second,
    naporeon wrote: »
    Graves wrote: »
    Well then I vote YES on proposition 301.

    I vote in favor of the active proposition, if you will
    This is something that needs clarifying.

    Earlier, I may have made it look like propositions are numbered. They are not. A number is only assigned when a proposal has been approved. Only when the first NEW RULE is successfully approved will number 301 be assigned.

    I'm not sure I agree with this interpretation of the rules, even if they are your own rules. It looks like the props are supposed to be numbered when they are initially brought up. Might I suggest for clarity's sake that when proposing a change, new rule, etc. we all list the proposed item number, even if the assignment is not official?

    This can be an official amendment later, but for now perhaps we can have a gentleman's agreement about it?

    Personally I think this might clear a little confusion, even after nap's post. Perhaps we should pay attention (since we're all going to pay attention to the post) which number is currently allowed on the main page (I'm assuming nap is going to add all the rules to the original post as necessary). I think it'll make things a little more streamlined in any case...then again whatever floats everyone's boat.

    MiracleManS on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Also, as has been pointed out, all new rules are mutable. They can then be transmuted into immutable rules by a later proposition.

    With rules in the 300's, I will just indicate in the NEW RULES section whether they are mutable or not.

    In my experience, however, it is very rare for new rules to become immutable.

    naporeon on
  • MonkeybombMonkeybomb Registered User
    edited May 2007
    I can see a situation where there might be some sort of time-delay proposal that could bring up the situation you mention, nap, but it looks like it can only be interpreted one way.

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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Zek wrote: »
    It does look pretty clear to me that proposals are to be numbered:
    108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.
    If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.
    Ooooooooooops.

    My bad.

    Zek is right.

    naporeon on
  • MonkeybombMonkeybomb Registered User
    edited May 2007
    We can run out of 300's after 7ish rounds, though I doubt the game will go for that long (months and months).

    Based on your new understanding of the rule, nap, if a prop is shot down, that number becomes freed up for the next prop, right?

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  • MonkeybombMonkeybomb Registered User
    edited May 2007
    I vote against the active proposition.

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  • FrankoFranko Sometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Wouldn't we switch to 400 once the next round starts?

    edit, or since there can only be 25 active props, we just go back to 301 when 325 is created?

    Franko on
  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Well, I have no more authority to make that decision than you do, Monkeybomb.

    I would say, however, that Rule 108 appears to indicate clearly that the next proposition gets the next number. So if this proposal fails, the next one will be 303, not another 302.

    naporeon on
  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Nope. According to the rules, we keep trucking through the 300's.

    It is highly unlikely, however, that we will exhaust all 99 of those.

    naporeon on
  • FrankoFranko Sometimes I really wish I had four feet so I could dance with myself to the drumbeat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Under new rules should you put all the Props (even if it fails) and just write 302 in LIME text if it passes or RED text to show it was a failure

    Franko on
  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    That's a good idea, Franko. I will do that.

    Or rather, something like it.

    naporeon on
  • MonkeybombMonkeybomb Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Okay, I was just posing that question to you as the initial game arbiter. For game ease-of-use.

    But on further reading of the rules, it appears that new rules will just continue right on through the 400's, so there's no problem.

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  • PotUPotU __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    Well, I have no more authority to make that decision than you do, Monkeybomb.

    I would say, however, that Rule 108 appears to indicate clearly that the next proposition gets the next number. So if this proposal fails, the next one will be 303, not another 302.

    Looks like we need a new rule there.

    EDIT: Or, you know... Do what Franko said.

    PotU on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    changing the subject, wtf guys, vote for my proposal

    What purpose is there in encouraging people to naysay a proposal for no reason other than that it's going to pass anyway? I seriously think this rule is meaningless. It's just going to turn every successful proposal into an 8v6 regardless of how popular it is.

    Zek on
  • MonkeybombMonkeybomb Registered User
    edited May 2007
    Zek wrote: »
    changing the subject, wtf guys, vote for my proposal

    What purpose is there in encouraging people to naysay a proposal for no reason other than that it's going to pass anyway? I seriously think this rule is meaningless. It's just going to turn every successful proposal into an 8v6 regardless of how popular it is.

    Because of strategery, that's why, Zek.

    Monkeybomb on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Do you really think that eight people will take one for the team, while six get points?

    I don't see that happening.

    I could be sold on this, though. But ultimately, I doubt that this proposal will pass until next round. All it takes is one vote against for it to be defeated.

    naporeon on
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    nap, check your PMs

    I want in on this.

    Rankenphile on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Also, you gotta vote too, Zek.

    naporeon on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    Do you really think that eight people will take one for the team, while six get points?

    I don't see that happening.

    I could be sold on this, though. But ultimately, I doubt that this proposal will pass until next round. All it takes is one vote against for it to be defeated.

    I'm saying that it will be a race to change your vote to negative without failing the proposal. Once 6 people disagree no one else will be able to switch without failing the proposal, but no one will want to be the one to actually vote in favor. It's dumb.

    Zek on
  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Guys, would you have any problem with Rank joining?

    I don't see a problem with it, personally.

    naporeon on
  • MonkeybombMonkeybomb Registered User
    edited May 2007
    You say dumb, I (rather, several of us) say interesting.

    Monkeybomb on
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  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    Guys, would you have any problem with Rank joining?

    I don't see a problem with it, personally.


    I vote in favor of the me joining the game.

    Rankenphile on
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  • MonkeybombMonkeybomb Registered User
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    Guys, would you have any problem with Rank joining?

    I don't see a problem with it, personally.

    I believe a proposal needs to be passed.

    Monkeybomb on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I've got no problem with it, if he waits for a rule to be passed.

    I vote in favor of the active proposition.

    Zek on
  • PotUPotU __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    Rank's awesome and the game just started. I don't see any problems there.

    PotU on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yeah.

    I guess that I could invoke a Judgment, since I'm the Judge for this turn, and bring Rank in that way.

    But I have seen games ruined through abuse of the Judge power, so I don't want to do that.

    naporeon on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Monkeybomb wrote: »
    You say dumb, I (rather, several of us) say interesting.

    What's interesting about the game actively discouraging the passing of proposals?

    Zek on
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    I'll consider myself ineligible to vote for the current prop, and go to the end of the list, if that's cool with all you.

    Rankenphile on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Ha.

    Zek, if you add an addendum to your proposal, allowing Rank to join the game, I will change my vote.

    naporeon on
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    Ha.

    Zek, if you add an addendum to your proposal, allowing Rank to join the game, I will change my vote.

    hey now, don't go playing games with my heart

    Rankenphile on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I love you, Rank.

    And I know this game would be way radder if you were playing. (Not to mention easier to run, since you would give us an odd number again.)

    But I can't just shoehorn you in. Also, you had a chance to sign up, fucker. Did you think it was going to be boring and dumb?

    naporeon on
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    I love you, Rank.

    And I know this game would be way radder if you were playing. (Not to mention easier to run, since you would give us an odd number again.)

    But I can't just shoehorn you in. Also, you had a chance to sign up, fucker. Did you think it was going to be boring and dumb?

    no, I thought it was going to be horribly convoluted and confusing, but now that I see it in action it makes way more sense.

    Also, turns out I got one less project at work to monitor so I might actually have time to watch this shit.

    Rankenphile on
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  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    also, just joking with you before, that's pretty clever politicking to get me into the game duder.

    Rankenphile on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    OK.

    Well, here's what I'll do.

    I will add you to the game after this round, unless someone has a good reason why we shouldn't do that. Because this is a win-win, in my opinion. Tie votes are a bitch, and you are a rad dude.

    naporeon on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    Yeah.

    I guess that I could invoke a Judgment, since I'm the Judge for this turn, and bring Rank in that way.

    But I have seen games ruined through abuse of the Judge power, so I don't want to do that.

    I don't think you can do that at all, seeing as there's been no disagreement about the interpretation of a rule. And there's no rule about who decides that a Judge is needed, either.
    naporeon wrote: »
    Ha.

    Zek, if you add an addendum to your proposal, allowing Rank to join the game, I will change my vote.

    Sure.


    Amended Proposal 302:

    Rule 204 is repealed, effective immediately. Furthermore, Rankenphile shall be added to the game as player 15, and will retain his position even should this rule be overturned.

    Zek on
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    Because this is a win-win, in my opinion. Tie votes are a bitch, and you are a rad dude.

    everything said here is true.

    Rankenphile on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    OK.

    Well, here's what I'll do.

    I will add you to the game after this round, unless someone has a good reason why we shouldn't do that. Because this is a win-win, in my opinion. Tie votes are a bitch, and you are a rad dude.

    We shouldn't do that because it's against the rules.

    Zek on
  • PotUPotU __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2007
    So I have to vote again now? I'm still in favor of it.

    I guess no.

    PotU on
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