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It's 2018 and the [State of the Union] is...

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Posts

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    At least 5% of watchers disapprove of Trump trying to unite the country?

    Those are probably the people who think Trump is giving forbidden amnesty and shit.

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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    He was trying to unite the country in that his message was explicitly "quit resisting and do what we want."

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    I like the way the Pod Save America guys describe it. Basically an irrelevant bit of theatre and the only way it changes shit is if you then go on some big tour afterwards to try and keep your issue(s) in the media spotlight and whip up public support. And even that only does so much.

    Trump's SOTU is gonna be out of the news by like next week.

    Which is good because of the way the media treats it but bad because the media should keep talking about what was actually going on there (ie - no policy, just racial grievances)

    shryke on
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited February 2018
    shryke wrote: »
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    I like the way the Pod Save America guys describe it. Basically an irrelevant bit of theatre and the only way it changes shit is if you then go on some big tour afterwards to try and keep your issue(s) in the media spotlight and whip up public support. And even that only does so much.

    Trump's SOTU is gonna be out of the news by like next week.

    Which is good because of the way the media treats it but bad because the media should keep talking about what was actually going on there (ie - no policy, just racial grievances)

    I think they've said Trump isn't going to do that. And really, why bother? He can sit on his ass and tweet about the same stupid shit. Anyway, his live appearances are for campaigning.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    I like the way the Pod Save America guys describe it. Basically an irrelevant bit of theatre and the only way it changes shit is if you then go on some big tour afterwards to try and keep your issue(s) in the media spotlight and whip up public support. And even that only does so much.

    Trump's SOTU is gonna be out of the news by like next week.

    Which is good because of the way the media treats it but bad because the media should keep talking about what was actually going on there (ie - no policy, just racial grievances)

    I think they've said Trump isn't going to do that. And really, why bother? He can sit on his ass and tweet about the same stupid shit. Anyway, his live appearances are for campaigning.

    He's not doing it because he's a lazy piece of shit who just wants to sit in his bathrobe watching cable news though.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    I like the way the Pod Save America guys describe it. Basically an irrelevant bit of theatre and the only way it changes shit is if you then go on some big tour afterwards to try and keep your issue(s) in the media spotlight and whip up public support. And even that only does so much.

    Trump's SOTU is gonna be out of the news by like next week.

    Which is good because of the way the media treats it but bad because the media should keep talking about what was actually going on there (ie - no policy, just racial grievances)

    I think they've said Trump isn't going to do that. And really, why bother? He can sit on his ass and tweet about the same stupid shit. Anyway, his live appearances are for campaigning.

    He's not doing it because he's a lazy piece of shit who just wants to sit in his bathrobe watching cable news though.

    This morning I heard someone on NPR say that Trump and Pence would be out campaigning for down-ticket Republicans something fierce this next year.

    I don't think I stifled a laugh. The man only cares about adulation for himself, and there's no way he is going to leave his cushy bunkers if he isn't promoting himself.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    I like the way the Pod Save America guys describe it. Basically an irrelevant bit of theatre and the only way it changes shit is if you then go on some big tour afterwards to try and keep your issue(s) in the media spotlight and whip up public support. And even that only does so much.

    Trump's SOTU is gonna be out of the news by like next week.

    Which is good because of the way the media treats it but bad because the media should keep talking about what was actually going on there (ie - no policy, just racial grievances)

    I think they've said Trump isn't going to do that. And really, why bother? He can sit on his ass and tweet about the same stupid shit. Anyway, his live appearances are for campaigning.

    He's not doing it because he's a lazy piece of shit who just wants to sit in his bathrobe watching cable news though.

    This morning I heard someone on NPR say that Trump and Pence would be out campaigning for down-ticket Republicans something fierce this next year.

    I don't think I stifled a laugh. The man only cares about adulation for himself, and there's no way he is going to leave his cushy bunkers if he isn't promoting himself.
    I dunno. I can definitely see him campaigning in blood red districts, anywhere with a PVI of R+20.

    Because while the man is, as you say, a lazy shit, the one thing that WILL get him out of bed is self-promotion. Being able to point after the election to the number of Republicans who got elected because of the work HE did, and pointing out any losses as "losers" who would have won if only they'd had Trump's support, definitely seems like the kind of transparent crap he'd pull.

    I can't see him campaigning for any seats that are actually in any danger, or are currently underwater, like Rep Valadao (R-CA21) D+5, Rep Curbelo (R-FL27) D+5, or Rep Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL26) D+6. Because then it'll mean potentially backing a loser. I mean, sure, he'd backtrack like he did on Strange and Moore in Alabama, and pretend it never happened, but it's more likely he never backs them in any meaningful way to begin with.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    I like the way the Pod Save America guys describe it. Basically an irrelevant bit of theatre and the only way it changes shit is if you then go on some big tour afterwards to try and keep your issue(s) in the media spotlight and whip up public support. And even that only does so much.

    Trump's SOTU is gonna be out of the news by like next week.

    Which is good because of the way the media treats it but bad because the media should keep talking about what was actually going on there (ie - no policy, just racial grievances)

    I think they've said Trump isn't going to do that. And really, why bother? He can sit on his ass and tweet about the same stupid shit. Anyway, his live appearances are for campaigning.

    He's not doing it because he's a lazy piece of shit who just wants to sit in his bathrobe watching cable news though.

    This morning I heard someone on NPR say that Trump and Pence would be out campaigning for down-ticket Republicans something fierce this next year.

    I don't think I stifled a laugh. The man only cares about adulation for himself, and there's no way he is going to leave his cushy bunkers if he isn't promoting himself.

    You don't campaign for seats to back up your SOTU, you campaign for policies. Which he just doesn't do. Ever.

    monikerElldren
  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    It's also required by the Constitution.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    It's also required by the Constitution.
    Ehhh. Barely.

    "He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient."

    First, it took more than 130 years before it being in person became a thing (the 3rd through 27th Presidents did it in writing, and it's only been since Reagan that it's consistently been in person).

    Second, "from time to time" doesn't need to mean annually. It has been a tradition to do so, but if there's one President of the last 45 who shits on tradition on a regular basis, it's the current one.

    Third, it's to Congress he has to address, not the country. And while some of the stories about citizens affected, unless it's backed by a policy position, it's hard to argue that it's the place for it. If he wants to do a Presidential address, or have a ceremony for those people, that's a different issue.

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    The State of the Union is politically irrelevant. It's just a big piece of show that we make a big deal of because the political culture in this country is almost completely useless and focused on spectacle.

    It's also required by the Constitution.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe it has stipulations on length, however.

    Making it an hour and a half or more laundry list of Everything is a choice. On the most recent Pod Save America, they talk about how they always started from a point of "okay, let's do it, let's aim for 40 minutes" and just never hit it, in part because everyone and every department wants their time, then you add in all these anecdotes and shout outs to people (present or elsewhere), plus applause/trolling time and suddenly it's 75 min+, and that's before you account for the painfully slow delivery. And glances at current events of importance, of course, like gun violence after Sandy Hook.

    It's as gratingly long as it is because of tradition/'showing up those who came before', not an actual requirement? Or am I (and the PSA guys) wrong that it couldn't just be "yo, the state of the union is strong, things are good, there's some shit we need to clean up, peace we out".

    They did mention a desire to have one that was just 20 minutes focused on one particular topic, which made me think that 'natural born citizen' requirements be damned, get John Oliver up there!

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    NPR's On Point loved the line "Americans are Dreamers too," (while I was internally screaming for somebody to say that Dreamers are Americans too). The dude also felt that Democrats giving part of the response in Spanish undermined the sentiment that Dreamers are Americans, and that the rhetoric about "tearing down a wall" might sound very scary to poor, threatened working class whites.

    That guy singlehandedly demolished a huge amount of my hope for the future just now, I was not expecting that this morning.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    NPR's On Point loved the line "Americans are Dreamers too," (while I was internally screaming for somebody to say that Dreamers are Americans too). The dude also felt that Democrats giving part of the response in Spanish undermined the sentiment that Dreamers are Americans, and that the rhetoric about "tearing down a wall" might sound very scary to poor, threatened working class whites.

    That guy singlehandedly demolished a huge amount of my hope for the future just now, I was not expecting that this morning.

    That guy sounds like a typical GOP hack

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  • SurfpossumSurfpossum A nonentity trying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    NPR's On Point loved the line "Americans are Dreamers too," (while I was internally screaming for somebody to say that Dreamers are Americans too). The dude also felt that Democrats giving part of the response in Spanish undermined the sentiment that Dreamers are Americans, and that the rhetoric about "tearing down a wall" might sound very scary to poor, threatened working class whites.

    That guy singlehandedly demolished a huge amount of my hope for the future just now, I was not expecting that this morning.

    That guy sounds like a typical GOP hack
    That's what made it depressing; it was Jack Beatty, one of their regular people. I don't really know much about him other than I've heard him a bunch and nothing really stuck out before.

    It was at about 27 minutes here:
    http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/02/01/witn-russia-memo

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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    The president of the United States is now promoting the idea that the democrats were “treasonous” and “unamerican” for their reactions and lack thereof during his state of the union, specifically regarding his news about the jobs rate for African-Americans



    CNN is a major news network

    Lanz on
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    It's always projection.

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Lanz wrote: »
    The president of the United States is now promoting the idea that the democrats were “treasonous” and “unamerican” for their reactions and lack thereof during his state of the union, specifically regarding his news about the jobs rate for African-Americans



    CNN is a major news network
    "They were like death and un-American. Un-American. Somebody said, 'Treasonous.' I mean, yeah, I guess, why not," he said to laughter.
    "Can we call that treason? Why not," he added.

    Why not

    I see the plan to unite the country against itself continues apace.

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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    But Trump didn't have a light installed, how were they to know when and when not to clap?

    Mild Confusion
  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Treason! You know, like conspiring with a foreign (possibly hostile) power to subvert our entire electoral process.

    ...for example.

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  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    If Democrats sitting there with pinched faces amounts to treason then Joe Wilson should have been jettisoned into the sun for yelling out during Obama’s SOTU

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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    There is a large part of me that thinks it might be time they break decorum start heckling Trump. That it might be time to start fighting back with everything we've got, decorum be damned, before there is no fighting back.

    Sitting there looking gloomy isn't going to do it anymore.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Withholding applause and affirmation from Trump, the constant approval that he both deserves and needs in order to live, is a high crime deserving the harshest punishment.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    There is a large part of me that thinks it might be time they break decorum start heckling Trump. That it might be time to start fighting back with everything we've got, decorum be damned, before there is no fighting back.

    Sitting there looking gloomy isn't going to do it anymore.

    Nah, negative reinforcement is still attention. Trump hates silence more than anything.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    If Democrats sitting there with pinched faces amounts to treason then Joe Wilson should have been jettisoned into the sun for yelling out during Obama’s SOTU

    That wasn't even at the SOTU.

    Nobody remembers anything about Obama's SOTU addresses. Even the people there.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    If Democrats sitting there with pinched faces amounts to treason then Joe Wilson should have been jettisoned into the sun for yelling out during Obama’s SOTU

    That wasn't even at the SOTU.

    Nobody remembers anything about Obama's SOTU addresses. Even the people there.

    Only technically in that it was not considered a State of the Union, but still an address to a Joint Session of Congress in his first year.

    shrykeFencingsaxElldren
  • Kristmas KthulhuKristmas Kthulhu Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Surfpossum wrote: »
    NPR's On Point loved the line "Americans are Dreamers too," (while I was internally screaming for somebody to say that Dreamers are Americans too). The dude also felt that Democrats giving part of the response in Spanish undermined the sentiment that Dreamers are Americans, and that the rhetoric about "tearing down a wall" might sound very scary to poor, threatened working class whites.

    That guy singlehandedly demolished a huge amount of my hope for the future just now, I was not expecting that this morning.

    That guy sounds like a typical GOP hack

    He has no idea what he's talking about. People *LOVE* their native languages. Anyone who shows they've committed the time to learning it leaves an incredibly good impression.

    The fact that he focuses on the feelings of impoverished racists over everyone else is just... the world we live in and have always lived in.

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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Aaaaand now it's a campaign ad:



    Donald Trump is, ostensibly, President of the United States of America.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Do we have a thread to talk about Trump telling the Pentagon to plan a military parade?

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Do we have a thread to talk about Trump telling the Pentagon to plan a military parade?

    We have a military thread somewhere

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    Aaaaand now it's a campaign ad:



    Donald Trump is, ostensibly, President of the United States of America.
    Not explicitly calling political opponents traitors:
    10/10 Presidentials

    Realizing real people are parroting this shit without a hint of irony:
    6/4 Ulcers


    Youtube
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    Aaaaand now it's a campaign ad:



    Donald Trump is, ostensibly, President of the United States of America.

    wait is this a parody?

    if not, I mean, this is why I say there is no "both sides" when it comes to putting party before country. The state of the union was a disgusting and racist grandstand, and that it produces responses like this just shows how deeply trump and the republican party have driven partisanship into their core.

  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Aaaaand now it's a campaign ad:



    Donald Trump is, ostensibly, President of the United States of America.

    wait is this a parody?

    if not, I mean, this is why I say there is no "both sides" when it comes to putting party before country. The state of the union was a disgusting and racist grandstand, and that it produces responses like this just shows how deeply trump and the republican party have driven partisanship into their core.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAql2DyGU2un1Ei2nMYsqOA

    It's on the official channel, at least seems verified as much as I can tell

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "The State, it is me."

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    I think we're done with SOTU discussion

    Geth, close the thread

  • GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    Affirmative So It Goes. Closing thread...

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