The word "sleeve" in this context still makes me want to vomit a little bit. Why not go all the way and just call bodies "used condoms"? Every time they say "sleeve" I picture somebody trying to pull Joel Kinnamen's hollowed out beefy bicep over their head like a too tight sweater and I start to get light headed.
On the one hand, I actually liked the show and the gritty cyber noir and the whole first season, so I am happy for a sequel.
On the other hand I am said we won't be seeing Martha Higareda again, because a) she was a great actor who absolutely sold the character she played and b) she was hot enough to melt the concrete she was walking on.
Hmm, I hope they actually go for Woken Furies, apparently they said in some interview once that book 2 would require too high budget, it's waaay more cinematic than book 1.
And randomly checking Wikipedia (which could constitute mild character spoilers by itself):
Trepp from book 1 was cut for season 1, but is apparently in season 2? She also happens to be my favorite random sidecharacter in the first book.
On the one hand, I actually liked the show and the gritty cyber noir and the whole first season, so I am happy for a sequel.
On the other hand I am said we won't be seeing Martha Higareda again, because a) she was a great actor who absolutely sold the character she played and b) she was hot enough to melt the concrete she was walking on.
So mixed feelings.
I had no idea what was going on during the first season and wasn't a huge fan of some of the acting, but I loved the cyber noir of it all. Even if I can't follow it or it's bad, we don't get a lot of cyber noir content so I'm 100% on board with season 2.
The word "sleeve" in this context still makes me want to vomit a little bit. Why not go all the way and just call bodies "used condoms"? Every time they say "sleeve" I picture somebody trying to pull Joel Kinnamen's hollowed out beefy bicep over their head like a too tight sweater and I start to get light headed.
To paraphrase Lithgow from Third Rock, "Everyone knows you have to go in through the butt!"
Is it like that in the books or is there a reason they couldn't put Kovacs in an Asian body for this series?
I mean, he has been in an Asian body in this series.
But a big part of the world of Altered Carbon is that the bodies aren't really the thing that matters.
One if the big parts of envoy training is being able to be dropped into any body on limited notice and being able to get back up to full speed quickly. Most people cannot tolerate being in bodies very different from their natural one and switching bodies too much will drive most people bonkers quickly. The body is not the person and them doing drastically different actors each season is a good call.
Not to call out Lanz here in particular, but this kind of thing can get dropped out of the blue in threads and leave me wondering what I missed along the lines.
So I went digging.
Upon doing so, I found this post on the matter, wherein it appears that Morgan stated he would be blocking anyone who used the term "TERF" on his feed.
He says that
I hold these truths to be self-evident – trans people are people, and thus deserving of the same human rights and protections as any other people. They should not be stigmatised, bullied, brutalised or otherwise excluded from the normal run of society, because no-one should be. Protection and provision for trans people to prevent such bigotry is a duty upon us all in any civilised society.
However, he then goes onto say
I also hold these truths to be self-evident – facts are stubborn things; human sex is binary, you are either born a man or a woman, and neither sex can change into the other. The much vaunted phrase “Trans women are women” or “trans men are men” is a semantic nonsense; it is quite simply objectively untrue. It’s ideological gibberish on a level with Orwell’s War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery. And to note this fact is not transphobic.
So, uh, eh, well fuck.
Am I happy about it? No. Is it enough to get me to throw out my Kovacs novels or skip Season 2? Honestly, probably not. I would like him to do better, but that these particular shenanigans stemmed from some bullshit on Twitter seems to be about as fitting as one can expect. Maybe that makes me a bad ally, but while I can recognize it as 'not great' or perhaps even 'disappointingly shitty', it doesn't quite yet trigger my own personal exclusion field.
HOWEVER, I can respect that others will disagree, that this is very personal to them and his terminology is problematic as fuck. I wouldn't fault that sentiment one bit.
I simply thought I'd share my findings, and express my own personal take on things, while leaving room for others to feel differently, because discussions on these forums have opened my eyes to a great many things, and I strive to at least be self aware enough to recognize my own failings and flaws. Maybe this is one of them, but given that I managed to still own and enjoy Ender's Game while recognizing that OSC has actively supported groups fighting against LGBTQ rights, here we are.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
+1
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited February 2020
uk middle class university educated person over 40 = nearly 100% terf
Not to call out Lanz here in particular, but this kind of thing can get dropped out of the blue in threads and leave me wondering what I missed along the lines.
So I went digging.
Upon doing so, I found this post on the matter, wherein it appears that Morgan stated he would be blocking anyone who used the term "TERF" on his feed.
He says that
I hold these truths to be self-evident – trans people are people, and thus deserving of the same human rights and protections as any other people. They should not be stigmatised, bullied, brutalised or otherwise excluded from the normal run of society, because no-one should be. Protection and provision for trans people to prevent such bigotry is a duty upon us all in any civilised society.
However, he then goes onto say
I also hold these truths to be self-evident – facts are stubborn things; human sex is binary, you are either born a man or a woman, and neither sex can change into the other. The much vaunted phrase “Trans women are women” or “trans men are men” is a semantic nonsense; it is quite simply objectively untrue. It’s ideological gibberish on a level with Orwell’s War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery. And to note this fact is not transphobic.
So, uh, eh, well fuck.
Am I happy about it? No. Is it enough to get me to throw out my Kovacs novels or skip Season 2? Honestly, probably not. I would like him to do better, but that these particular shenanigans stemmed from some bullshit on Twitter seems to be about as fitting as one can expect. Maybe that makes me a bad ally, but while I can recognize it as 'not great' or perhaps even 'disappointingly shitty', it doesn't quite yet trigger my own personal exclusion field.
HOWEVER, I can respect that others will disagree, that this is very personal to them and his terminology is problematic as fuck. I wouldn't fault that sentiment one bit.
I simply thought I'd share my findings, and express my own personal take on things, while leaving room for others to feel differently, because discussions on these forums have opened my eyes to a great many things, and I strive to at least be self aware enough to recognize my own failings and flaws. Maybe this is one of them, but given that I managed to still own and enjoy Ender's Game while recognizing that OSC has actively supported groups fighting against LGBTQ rights, here we are.
I feel like its an especially weird take coming from someone writing transhumanist literature.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I made the mistake of reading the first book after watching the show.
Mistake in that, in my estimation, Richard Morgan is a hack and his terrible writing nearly soured me on the aspects of the show that were actually good.
Not surprising that he has shitty opinions; I could see them every time he described Miriam Bancroft's tits as if that was the only aspect of her character worth mentioning.
The show, at least, managed to expunge some of the most egregious hackery from the first book. Here's hoping the trend continues.
I made the mistake of reading the first book after watching the show.
Mistake in that, in my estimation, Richard Morgan is a hack and his terrible writing nearly soured me on the aspects of the show that were actually good.
Not surprising that he has shitty opinions; I could see them every time he described Miriam Bancroft's tits as if that was the only aspect of her character worth mentioning.
The show, at least, managed to expunge some of the most egregious hackery from the first book. Here's hoping the trend continues.
I got the first book in a Secret Santa. I'm afraid to give it a try. I dug the first season overall, but there were certainly parts that felt very...macho. And if that's the improved version...
I made the mistake of reading the first book after watching the show.
Mistake in that, in my estimation, Richard Morgan is a hack and his terrible writing nearly soured me on the aspects of the show that were actually good.
Not surprising that he has shitty opinions; I could see them every time he described Miriam Bancroft's tits as if that was the only aspect of her character worth mentioning.
The show, at least, managed to expunge some of the most egregious hackery from the first book. Here's hoping the trend continues.
I got the first book in a Secret Santa. I'm afraid to give it a try. I dug the first season overall, but there were certainly parts that felt very...macho. And if that's the improved version...
To the book's credit, I will say that there were larger plot points that were a little more interesting than what was done in the show, but beyond that...
Spoiler for Book 1/season 1 but also for gross
So that part where they put Kovacs in virtual in the show and torture him over and over?
Well, in the book, they specifically put him in a woman's body in a virtual recreation of a war zone with evil caricature Islamic terrorists, and it's described with all the care of an edgy DM who puts rape in a tabletop campaign because it's "realistic".
I made the mistake of reading the first book after watching the show.
Mistake in that, in my estimation, Richard Morgan is a hack and his terrible writing nearly soured me on the aspects of the show that were actually good.
Not surprising that he has shitty opinions; I could see them every time he described Miriam Bancroft's tits as if that was the only aspect of her character worth mentioning.
The show, at least, managed to expunge some of the most egregious hackery from the first book. Here's hoping the trend continues.
I got the first book in a Secret Santa. I'm afraid to give it a try. I dug the first season overall, but there were certainly parts that felt very...macho. And if that's the improved version...
To the book's credit, I will say that there were larger plot points that were a little more interesting than what was done in the show, but beyond that...
Spoiler for Book 1/season 1 but also for gross
So that part where they put Kovacs in virtual in the show and torture him over and over?
Well, in the book, they specifically put him in a woman's body in a virtual recreation of a war zone with evil caricature Islamic terrorists, and it's described with all the care of an edgy DM who puts rape in a tabletop campaign because it's "realistic".
Yeah.
I'll pass.
+6
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Not to call out Lanz here in particular, but this kind of thing can get dropped out of the blue in threads and leave me wondering what I missed along the lines.
So I went digging.
Upon doing so, I found this post on the matter, wherein it appears that Morgan stated he would be blocking anyone who used the term "TERF" on his feed.
He says that
I hold these truths to be self-evident – trans people are people, and thus deserving of the same human rights and protections as any other people. They should not be stigmatised, bullied, brutalised or otherwise excluded from the normal run of society, because no-one should be. Protection and provision for trans people to prevent such bigotry is a duty upon us all in any civilised society.
However, he then goes onto say
I also hold these truths to be self-evident – facts are stubborn things; human sex is binary, you are either born a man or a woman, and neither sex can change into the other. The much vaunted phrase “Trans women are women” or “trans men are men” is a semantic nonsense; it is quite simply objectively untrue. It’s ideological gibberish on a level with Orwell’s War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery. And to note this fact is not transphobic.
So, uh, eh, well fuck.
Am I happy about it? No. Is it enough to get me to throw out my Kovacs novels or skip Season 2? Honestly, probably not. I would like him to do better, but that these particular shenanigans stemmed from some bullshit on Twitter seems to be about as fitting as one can expect. Maybe that makes me a bad ally, but while I can recognize it as 'not great' or perhaps even 'disappointingly shitty', it doesn't quite yet trigger my own personal exclusion field.
HOWEVER, I can respect that others will disagree, that this is very personal to them and his terminology is problematic as fuck. I wouldn't fault that sentiment one bit.
I simply thought I'd share my findings, and express my own personal take on things, while leaving room for others to feel differently, because discussions on these forums have opened my eyes to a great many things, and I strive to at least be self aware enough to recognize my own failings and flaws. Maybe this is one of them, but given that I managed to still own and enjoy Ender's Game while recognizing that OSC has actively supported groups fighting against LGBTQ rights, here we are.
Whoa. Hmmm. Ummmm. Ahhhh.
I am going to have to think about this. :?
I feel like its an especially weird take coming from someone writing transhumanist literature.
I feel like its an especially weird take coming from someone writing transhumanist literature.
Ehhh... the technology is used by the traditional power structures to give themselves unending healthy and productive lives while being able to further exploit the underclass by robbing them of their very bodies and their ability to leave the influence of those structures, creating a indentured military caste and cheapening life. It's dystopia and power fantasy.
Authors who envision technology as furthering social repression tend to not be writing things where human utility, well being and freedom are advanced through technological revolution.
It doesn't seem weird coming from someone writing about transhumanist subjects.
redx on
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited February 2020
it is also the case that transhumanism is entirely consistent with a firm sense of existing biological boundaries of the human - boundaries made more interesting and generating more discomfort when violated by the perceived fact of their concreteness
"what if man in female body" is a question that excites an author more if it violates a strong norm of theirs
you can approach transhumanism from both sides
surrealitycheck on
+8
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
Is it like that in the books or is there a reason they couldn't put Kovacs in an Asian body for this series?
I mean, he has been in an Asian body in this series.
But a big part of the world of Altered Carbon is that the bodies aren't really the thing that matters.
One if the big parts of envoy training is being able to be dropped into any body on limited notice and being able to get back up to full speed quickly. Most people cannot tolerate being in bodies very different from their natural one and switching bodies too much will drive most people bonkers quickly. The body is not the person and them doing drastically different actors each season is a good call.
They did introduce advanced cloning technology though, making the drop to different bodies on other planets a bit unnecessary.
It makes sense for an Envoy to do it but why wouldn't Kovacs just get a clone made wherever he's going? Even if not his original body the consistency should be a benefit, no?
To clarify, I meant more to get an asian actor in as the star of a big sci fi setup. I know they can't give Kovacs back his original body.
tbh I think they were just pretty excited to get Anthony Mackie. An asian star would be dope but I get it. (Also I assume they're bringing back Byron Mann for a bunch of flashbacks.)
To clarify, I meant more to get an asian actor in as the star of a big sci fi setup. I know they can't give Kovacs back his original body.
tbh I think they were just pretty excited to get Anthony Mackie. An asian star would be dope but I get it. (Also I assume they're bringing back Byron Mann for a bunch of flashbacks.)
If they cast an Asian star people would ask who is Byron Mann playing!?
The whole sleeving into different bodies is hard enough for regular non-sci fi fans to get, lets not confuse them with two actors that look the same(because all asians look alike of course /s).
Dichen Lachman in the last season is biracial with Nepalese background, she looks nothing like Byron Mann who is Chinese-American and both of them do not look Japanese which is the ethnicity that Kovacs and his family are predominantly from.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
To clarify, I meant more to get an asian actor in as the star of a big sci fi setup. I know they can't give Kovacs back his original body.
tbh I think they were just pretty excited to get Anthony Mackie. An asian star would be dope but I get it. (Also I assume they're bringing back Byron Mann for a bunch of flashbacks.)
If they cast an Asian star people would ask who is Byron Mann playing!?
The whole sleeving into different bodies is hard enough for regular non-sci fi fans to get, lets not confuse them with two actors that look the same(because all asians look alike of course /s).
Dichen Lachman in the last season is biracial with Nepalese background, she looks nothing like Byron Mann who is Chinese-American and both of them do not look Japanese which is the ethnicity that Kovacs and his family are predominantly from.
I mean Robert De Niro has frequently been cast as italian while being 1/4 italian and not looking italian a bit. getting actors who are asian is already a victory. They could have cast Hugo Weaving instead.
I understand the complaint but I also want to note that 1) the main character now isn't a white dude, and 2) many of these netflix originals, like this one, have provided space for a lot of non-white roles. I think shit can go faster but at least we can also recognize when things are moving in the right direction?
Posts
On the other hand I am said we won't be seeing Martha Higareda again, because a) she was a great actor who absolutely sold the character she played and b) she was hot enough to melt the concrete she was walking on.
So mixed feelings.
And randomly checking Wikipedia (which could constitute mild character spoilers by itself):
So... who knows?
It could just be a big mess, honestly.
I had no idea what was going on during the first season and wasn't a huge fan of some of the acting, but I loved the cyber noir of it all. Even if I can't follow it or it's bad, we don't get a lot of cyber noir content so I'm 100% on board with season 2.
I'm in.
I mean, he has been in an Asian body in this series.
But a big part of the world of Altered Carbon is that the bodies aren't really the thing that matters.
Unless they come with mods or implants. Then a body is helpful. But other than that they are disposable meat.
My guess is he'll still be in it for flashbacks and whatnot.
He goes into the body played by Kinnaman for a few reasons actually, one is because it was modded, but the other was more of a fuck you to someone.
To paraphrase Lithgow from Third Rock, "Everyone knows you have to go in through the butt!"
One if the big parts of envoy training is being able to be dropped into any body on limited notice and being able to get back up to full speed quickly. Most people cannot tolerate being in bodies very different from their natural one and switching bodies too much will drive most people bonkers quickly. The body is not the person and them doing drastically different actors each season is a good call.
"Now this is a nice, luxurious ride for my stack!"
But that might be too complicated and also not let the world open up thematically.
On the one hand I’m annoyed with how the adaptation handles the revolutionary nature of Quellism regarding power and capitalism
On the other hand, it thankfully junked Morgan’s issues with Islam as a whole.
And now Morgan’s aligned himself with TERFs
Not to call out Lanz here in particular, but this kind of thing can get dropped out of the blue in threads and leave me wondering what I missed along the lines.
So I went digging.
Upon doing so, I found this post on the matter, wherein it appears that Morgan stated he would be blocking anyone who used the term "TERF" on his feed.
He says that
However, he then goes onto say
So, uh, eh, well fuck.
Am I happy about it? No. Is it enough to get me to throw out my Kovacs novels or skip Season 2? Honestly, probably not. I would like him to do better, but that these particular shenanigans stemmed from some bullshit on Twitter seems to be about as fitting as one can expect. Maybe that makes me a bad ally, but while I can recognize it as 'not great' or perhaps even 'disappointingly shitty', it doesn't quite yet trigger my own personal exclusion field.
HOWEVER, I can respect that others will disagree, that this is very personal to them and his terminology is problematic as fuck. I wouldn't fault that sentiment one bit.
I simply thought I'd share my findings, and express my own personal take on things, while leaving room for others to feel differently, because discussions on these forums have opened my eyes to a great many things, and I strive to at least be self aware enough to recognize my own failings and flaws. Maybe this is one of them, but given that I managed to still own and enjoy Ender's Game while recognizing that OSC has actively supported groups fighting against LGBTQ rights, here we are.
just how it be
second book
I feel like its an especially weird take coming from someone writing transhumanist literature.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Mistake in that, in my estimation, Richard Morgan is a hack and his terrible writing nearly soured me on the aspects of the show that were actually good.
Not surprising that he has shitty opinions; I could see them every time he described Miriam Bancroft's tits as if that was the only aspect of her character worth mentioning.
The show, at least, managed to expunge some of the most egregious hackery from the first book. Here's hoping the trend continues.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I mean it could hardly be considered cyberpunk without good synth music. It's practically a genre requirement.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I got the first book in a Secret Santa. I'm afraid to give it a try. I dug the first season overall, but there were certainly parts that felt very...macho. And if that's the improved version...
Oh I know but it's still possible to have bad synth music.
To the book's credit, I will say that there were larger plot points that were a little more interesting than what was done in the show, but beyond that...
Spoiler for Book 1/season 1 but also for gross
Well, in the book, they specifically put him in a woman's body in a virtual recreation of a war zone with evil caricature Islamic terrorists, and it's described with all the care of an edgy DM who puts rape in a tabletop campaign because it's "realistic".
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Yeah.
I'll pass.
I am going to have to think about this. :?
Agreed!
Ehhh... the technology is used by the traditional power structures to give themselves unending healthy and productive lives while being able to further exploit the underclass by robbing them of their very bodies and their ability to leave the influence of those structures, creating a indentured military caste and cheapening life. It's dystopia and power fantasy.
Authors who envision technology as furthering social repression tend to not be writing things where human utility, well being and freedom are advanced through technological revolution.
It doesn't seem weird coming from someone writing about transhumanist subjects.
"what if man in female body" is a question that excites an author more if it violates a strong norm of theirs
you can approach transhumanism from both sides
They did introduce advanced cloning technology though, making the drop to different bodies on other planets a bit unnecessary.
It makes sense for an Envoy to do it but why wouldn't Kovacs just get a clone made wherever he's going? Even if not his original body the consistency should be a benefit, no?
tbh I think they were just pretty excited to get Anthony Mackie. An asian star would be dope but I get it. (Also I assume they're bringing back Byron Mann for a bunch of flashbacks.)
If they cast an Asian star people would ask who is Byron Mann playing!?
The whole sleeving into different bodies is hard enough for regular non-sci fi fans to get, lets not confuse them with two actors that look the same(because all asians look alike of course /s).
Dichen Lachman in the last season is biracial with Nepalese background, she looks nothing like Byron Mann who is Chinese-American and both of them do not look Japanese which is the ethnicity that Kovacs and his family are predominantly from.
I mean Robert De Niro has frequently been cast as italian while being 1/4 italian and not looking italian a bit. getting actors who are asian is already a victory. They could have cast Hugo Weaving instead.
I understand the complaint but I also want to note that 1) the main character now isn't a white dude, and 2) many of these netflix originals, like this one, have provided space for a lot of non-white roles. I think shit can go faster but at least we can also recognize when things are moving in the right direction?