I gave up on FTL when, in back-to-back games, I tied within 5 turns. Yeah, that’s truly random but not fun.
To be fair, I've seen streams of really good FTL players, they win most games even in Hard Modes and such :P.
But yeah, FTL RNG felt more harsh. StS feels like it has more RNG, even if it's not as punishing typically. I'm not an expert, that's just how it feels to me.
I gave up on FTL when, in back-to-back games, I tied within 5 turns. Yeah, that’s truly random but not fun.
I think you might have been missing some basic mechanic or strategy, even the bad FTL starts don't get bad until the second sector (in which they can get really bad).
I mean, it's not exactly rare for you to draw all your block cards while an enemy is using a buff and knowing literally every card in your draw pile is an attack for the enemy attack turn
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I mean, it's not exactly rare for you to draw all your block cards while an enemy is using a buff and knowing literally every card in your draw pile is an attack for the enemy attack turn
Yeah but that's card games. Draw order is inherent to the genre so you can't really avoid it.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited February 2018
You can also manipulate your draw fairly well by either drafting copious amounts of card draw, or doing things like playing card draw even though you can't play what you draw, solely to thin your draw pile and accelerate when you'd shuffle your deck. Calculated Gamble is good for this.
I mean, it's not exactly rare for you to draw all your block cards while an enemy is using a buff and knowing literally every card in your draw pile is an attack for the enemy attack turn
That sounds like you have too many offensive cards. You only need a small handful of offensive cards. I try to remove 100% of my strikes. I'd rather have a single Flechette or bouncing flask.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I mean, it's not exactly rare for you to draw all your block cards while an enemy is using a buff and knowing literally every card in your draw pile is an attack for the enemy attack turn
That sounds like you have too many offensive cards. You only need a small handful of offensive cards. I try to remove 100% of my strikes. I'd rather have a single Flechette or bouncing flask.
This is incorrect. The actual solution is to pick Ironclad and remove all your blocks.
(I seem to have an irregular playstyle compared to most people I talk to :P)
I mean, it's not exactly rare for you to draw all your block cards while an enemy is using a buff and knowing literally every card in your draw pile is an attack for the enemy attack turn
That sounds like you have too many offensive cards. You only need a small handful of offensive cards. I try to remove 100% of my strikes. I'd rather have a single Flechette or bouncing flask.
This is incorrect. The actual solution is to pick Ironclad and remove all your blocks.
(I seem to have an irregular playstyle compared to most people I talk to :P)
You can do that with strength builds, but it's...........volatile
Had a discard/cycle deck with lots of energy builders and a single Skewer for kills. It was one of the most consistent decks I've ever had.
Man, Dead Branch + Corruption is just such a silly combo. That, calipers, and a Snecko Eye carried me to 1432 points. Only Ascension 10 so I didn't get a full bonus, and didn't manage to score a Perfect on the first boss (didn't yet have the combo online), but otherwise it was basically a perfect run.
Hrmm.. first time really tried a Barricade run and I had Barricade, Body Slam and some other decent stuff but Frail debuff shuts the whole thing down hard and first time I ran into a Hexing Cultist the whole thing came apart. My relics weren't all that great though, maybe I'll give it another try later.
Awww yeah, this pic is turn 1. And this is why I love playing the silent.
It's hard to go infinite. It's much harder to do it on turn one. I also managed to go infinite without a single self drawing card in my deck like heel strike. My only win condition was 2 poison strikes.
It was probably the strangest infinite deck I've ever made. I had the sun dial relic, monkey paw, and tactician+ and had gotten rid of my strikes and defends with the pipe relic. I also hit the madness event and landed a madness on expertise and backflip. I also had an adrenaline in my deck.
There is a long list of cards I usually depend on that I never saw that run like outmanuever, heel strike, escape plan, and noxious fumes (for early game).
I think expertise is an awesome card. It doesn't help you go infinite in most cases, because it incentives you to play your hand instead of draw all your bad cards and cycle the rest with a full hand. But, if you are playing your hand nothing beats it for draw. I think a couple of expertises and a couple of outmanuevers would be a perfectly fine way of consistently building a strong silent deck.
Hrmm.. first time really tried a Barricade run and I had Barricade, Body Slam and some other decent stuff but Frail debuff shuts the whole thing down hard and first time I ran into a Hexing Cultist the whole thing came apart. My relics weren't all that great though, maybe I'll give it another try later.
I forget the name of the power but if you have the card that gives you block for every exhausted card it's actually not that bad of a deal. Every dazed gets exhausted at the end of the turn if it's in your hand and since it's block from a power rather than block from a card dexterity and frail both have no impact on the amount of block you get.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Feel No Pain is probably the most important card for exhaust builds, yea.
38 cards, but it was actually extremely consistent because of the innates (backstabs, Infinite Blades) interacting with the kunai & fan, and Well-Layed Plans + potion spam to smooth things over. Potions are basically Innates that don't get discarded until use, after all.
The run started with getting 3x Alchemize very early. The whale gave me one and I snagged another in the first shop (space 2).
After the first boss I didn't have much going on so I took the encounter that gives you three relics and three curses - which gave me both the Kunai & Fan. Started picking up Infinite Blades and other freebies to proc those.
A bit later, since I already had a few curses I decided to let some other encounters curse me even more. Turns out that Dash with the Necronomicon is practically a deck by itself.
To cap things off, I was able to pick up the Toy Ornithopter just before the final boss. Since I was spamming potions like crazy, why not?
Final boss was the Time Eater - one of the worst possible opponents for the deck?
I survived & conquered with 3 hp remaining. Toy Ornithopter carry!
Had a Silent run with four Accuracy and a storm of steel. Did well until I got to the shapes final boss, where the decks lack of block caused problems. Shivs were doing well over 30 damage each, but they were also dealing 30-40 damage every turn and three backflips in a 20 card deck, unlike the shivs, were not cutting it.
Weirdly enough I probably would have won against Time Eater. I didn’t have Infinite Blades, Shiv generation was purely from Cloak and Dagger and Storm of Steel. I suspect Runic Pyramid may have been a source of this downfall too.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Kunai in a Shiv build with the card that gives you 6 block and creates 2 Shivs is beautiful. Between that and the Create 1 Shiv a turn Power, you gain 1 Dexterity minimum each turn from a single card.
I gave up on FTL when, in back-to-back games, I tied within 5 turns. Yeah, that’s truly random but not fun.
I played a ton of FTL. I beat the game with all the ships on hard and unlocked all achievements (I think). The starter ships you can win pretty much all the time with on easy. Some of the ships are designed to be a challenge, and obviously there were difficulty modes to make it even harder. Your comment suggests didn't play enough to unlock those ships.
I think it depends on your idea of random. Slay the spire is MORE random. You can high roll to victory without understanding the game at all. Your first win is going to come early. What takes skill is winning the games you don't high roll. FTL is a little random, but it's also a lot harder. You aren't going to high roll your way to victory. You can also win pretty much every game you play on easy mode with the engineering ship or the other easy ships.
Then there are the weird ships that have unique play styles and are intentionally have the odds stacked against you.
So far my favorite setup has been trading in my starting relic (Silent) and getting the one that lets me not collect gold. And then the very first relic I pick up after that is the one that reduces merchant prices, after also having run into a thief.
So far my favorite setup has been trading in my starting relic (Silent) and getting the one that lets me not collect gold. And then the very first relic I pick up after that is the one that reduces merchant prices, after also having run into a thief.
The possibility of getting Ectoplasm is one of the reasons I don't really want to trade in my starting relic - a whole run without any gold would be so boooring.
Man I hate Thieves. I'll sacrifice a ton of HP to kill them.
STAY AWAY FROM MY GOLD!
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Is it guaranteed to spawn 2 muggers at the very start of the 2nd map?
Because it's happened far too often now that I'm starting to suspect. Not only do they steal your gold, but fuck 20 damage a turn right out of the gates.
Is it guaranteed to spawn 2 muggers at the very start of the 2nd map?
Because it's happened far too often now that I'm starting to suspect. Not only do they steal your gold, but fuck 20 damage a turn right out of the gates.
My past few runs the first spawn on the second level has been particularly brutal. Might just be RNG though.
Is it guaranteed to spawn 2 muggers at the very start of the 2nd map?
Because it's happened far too often now that I'm starting to suspect. Not only do they steal your gold, but fuck 20 damage a turn right out of the gates.
Not guaranteed, but it's one of the most likely encounters. Of course, there are weekly changes so who knows really :P
I actually really like the Silent's starting relic far more than the Ironclad's. The extra card draw on turn 1 helps keep your deck from starting combat on the wrong foot.
I actually really like the Silent's starting relic far more than the Ironclad's. The extra card draw on turn 1 helps keep your deck from starting combat on the wrong foot.
I'm kind of the opposite. That 6hp per combat (plus a higher starting health) means I can take on Elites with less fear.
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I think I have lost gold to muggers maybe once ever. Certainly not in the first biome, anyway, when the deck still has plenty of Strikes to get through their HP before they get away. In the second area, I guess it could be a problem if you have a deck that is super slow.
I think I have lost gold to muggers maybe once ever. Certainly not in the first biome, anyway, when the deck still has plenty of Strikes to get through their HP before they get away. In the second area, I guess it could be a problem if you have a deck that is super slow.
I value my hp too much. Or gold too little, I'm pretty sure I didn't hit a single shop in Acts 2-3 in my last two successful runs...
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah the question is always if you're willing to trade the HP for the gold, especially if your deck isn't fully set up and you're still depending on the base attack/defense cards.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I gave up on FTL when, in back-to-back games, I tied within 5 turns. Yeah, that’s truly random but not fun.
I think you might have been missing some basic mechanic or strategy, even the bad FTL starts don't get bad until the second sector (in which they can get really bad).
I have no clue as to why anybody would waste their time on a game where victory is as out of the hands of the player as FTL.
It has zero tension or interest for me, because either the first couple of sectors are good or I'm fucked and I've wasted my time. May as well just write a program that tells me I'm a winner or loser based on RNG, and let that run while I play a game worth actually playing. Getting forty minutes into a game and randomly getting tossed completely unwinnable conditions is about the biggest waste of time I can think of, and about some of the worst game design.
I gave up on FTL when, in back-to-back games, I tied within 5 turns. Yeah, that’s truly random but not fun.
I think you might have been missing some basic mechanic or strategy, even the bad FTL starts don't get bad until the second sector (in which they can get really bad).
I have no clue as to why anybody would waste their time on a game where victory is as out of the hands of the player as FTL.
It has zero tension or interest for me, because either the first couple of sectors are good or I'm fucked and I've wasted my time. May as well just write a program that tells me I'm a winner or loser based on RNG, and let that run while I play a game worth actually playing. Getting forty minutes into a game and randomly getting tossed completely unwinnable conditions is about the biggest waste of time I can think of, and about some of the worst game design.
It's not that bad, actually. Good players (not me) can win with very high consistency.
I gave up on FTL when, in back-to-back games, I tied within 5 turns. Yeah, that’s truly random but not fun.
I think you might have been missing some basic mechanic or strategy, even the bad FTL starts don't get bad until the second sector (in which they can get really bad).
I have no clue as to why anybody would waste their time on a game where victory is as out of the hands of the player as FTL.
It has zero tension or interest for me, because either the first couple of sectors are good or I'm fucked and I've wasted my time. May as well just write a program that tells me I'm a winner or loser based on RNG, and let that run while I play a game worth actually playing. Getting forty minutes into a game and randomly getting tossed completely unwinnable conditions is about the biggest waste of time I can think of, and about some of the worst game design.
It's not that bad, actually. Good players (not me) can win with very high consistency.
"High consistency" means they still lose for reasons beyond their control, despite having far, far more knowledge of the game than I would even remotely consider learning. For people with more limited knowledge, it's basically an ongoing crap shoot.
So victory is still an RNG situation, and I've got shitloads better things to do than play something that is more dice throw than good design.
EDIT: If you like FTL, don't take my view on that personally. I lived in Reno for several years and I have a pretty dim view of any kind of random chance masked as entertainment, so I judge something like FTL really harshly.
I gave up on FTL when, in back-to-back games, I tied within 5 turns. Yeah, that’s truly random but not fun.
I think you might have been missing some basic mechanic or strategy, even the bad FTL starts don't get bad until the second sector (in which they can get really bad).
I have no clue as to why anybody would waste their time on a game where victory is as out of the hands of the player as FTL.
It has zero tension or interest for me, because either the first couple of sectors are good or I'm fucked and I've wasted my time. May as well just write a program that tells me I'm a winner or loser based on RNG, and let that run while I play a game worth actually playing. Getting forty minutes into a game and randomly getting tossed completely unwinnable conditions is about the biggest waste of time I can think of, and about some of the worst game design.
It's not that bad, actually. Good players (not me) can win with very high consistency.
"High consistency" means they still lose for reasons beyond their control, despite having far, far more knowledge of the game than I would even remotely consider learning. For people with more limited knowledge, it's basically an ongoing crap shoot.
So victory is still an RNG situation, and I've got shitloads better things to do than play something that is more dice throw than good design.
"High consistency" as in "winning every single time on normal difficulty".
Similarly, the winning streak for Slay the Spire is around 25 wins in a row.
I finally beat Ascension 1 with The Silent by going FULL SHIV MODE! It's insanity when a little 4 damage card is hitting for 20+.
Wasn't offered a single Energy boosting boss Relic, so this was done on the stock 3. I had some ways to manipulate things by killing enemies and/or Adrenaline. Basically I stalled out getting my 3 Accuracy's in play, then held on to Storm of Steel and Acrobatics. A hand full of high damage Shivs is the light.
But hands-down, the MVP card(s) of the run were Cloak and Dagger. Block + free damage? Yes please!
Got lucky getting the Shuriken and buying the Letter Opener, the latter of which helped me clear the spike enemies on floor 3.
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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One thing that I think this game needs before exiting early access is a re-shuffle choice.
There are runs that I straight up lose because of an early-game shuffle that leads to multiple bad turns.
I know they're coming, but there is nothing I can do about it.
I need a button I can hit to at least lose a turn -> shuffle my hand & deck.
That's why its important to keep a small deck. By the time it starts to matter you want to cycle through your deck everyother turn at the least. Most games I can cycle through my deck more than once each turn. Buy every card removal you can.
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To be fair, I've seen streams of really good FTL players, they win most games even in Hard Modes and such :P.
But yeah, FTL RNG felt more harsh. StS feels like it has more RNG, even if it's not as punishing typically. I'm not an expert, that's just how it feels to me.
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I think you might have been missing some basic mechanic or strategy, even the bad FTL starts don't get bad until the second sector (in which they can get really bad).
Yeah but that's card games. Draw order is inherent to the genre so you can't really avoid it.
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
That sounds like you have too many offensive cards. You only need a small handful of offensive cards. I try to remove 100% of my strikes. I'd rather have a single Flechette or bouncing flask.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
This is incorrect. The actual solution is to pick Ironclad and remove all your blocks.
(I seem to have an irregular playstyle compared to most people I talk to :P)
You can do that with strength builds, but it's...........volatile
Had a discard/cycle deck with lots of energy builders and a single Skewer for kills. It was one of the most consistent decks I've ever had.
It's hard to go infinite. It's much harder to do it on turn one. I also managed to go infinite without a single self drawing card in my deck like heel strike. My only win condition was 2 poison strikes.
It was probably the strangest infinite deck I've ever made. I had the sun dial relic, monkey paw, and tactician+ and had gotten rid of my strikes and defends with the pipe relic. I also hit the madness event and landed a madness on expertise and backflip. I also had an adrenaline in my deck.
There is a long list of cards I usually depend on that I never saw that run like outmanuever, heel strike, escape plan, and noxious fumes (for early game).
I think expertise is an awesome card. It doesn't help you go infinite in most cases, because it incentives you to play your hand instead of draw all your bad cards and cycle the rest with a full hand. But, if you are playing your hand nothing beats it for draw. I think a couple of expertises and a couple of outmanuevers would be a perfectly fine way of consistently building a strong silent deck.
Currently DMing: None
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
38 cards, but it was actually extremely consistent because of the innates (backstabs, Infinite Blades) interacting with the kunai & fan, and Well-Layed Plans + potion spam to smooth things over. Potions are basically Innates that don't get discarded until use, after all.
The run started with getting 3x Alchemize very early. The whale gave me one and I snagged another in the first shop (space 2).
After the first boss I didn't have much going on so I took the encounter that gives you three relics and three curses - which gave me both the Kunai & Fan. Started picking up Infinite Blades and other freebies to proc those.
A bit later, since I already had a few curses I decided to let some other encounters curse me even more. Turns out that Dash with the Necronomicon is practically a deck by itself.
To cap things off, I was able to pick up the Toy Ornithopter just before the final boss. Since I was spamming potions like crazy, why not?
Final boss was the Time Eater - one of the worst possible opponents for the deck?
I survived & conquered with 3 hp remaining. Toy Ornithopter carry!
Weirdly enough I probably would have won against Time Eater. I didn’t have Infinite Blades, Shiv generation was purely from Cloak and Dagger and Storm of Steel. I suspect Runic Pyramid may have been a source of this downfall too.
Currently DMing: None
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I played a ton of FTL. I beat the game with all the ships on hard and unlocked all achievements (I think). The starter ships you can win pretty much all the time with on easy. Some of the ships are designed to be a challenge, and obviously there were difficulty modes to make it even harder. Your comment suggests didn't play enough to unlock those ships.
I think it depends on your idea of random. Slay the spire is MORE random. You can high roll to victory without understanding the game at all. Your first win is going to come early. What takes skill is winning the games you don't high roll. FTL is a little random, but it's also a lot harder. You aren't going to high roll your way to victory. You can also win pretty much every game you play on easy mode with the engineering ship or the other easy ships.
Then there are the weird ships that have unique play styles and are intentionally have the odds stacked against you.
The possibility of getting Ectoplasm is one of the reasons I don't really want to trade in my starting relic - a whole run without any gold would be so boooring.
STAY AWAY FROM MY GOLD!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Because it's happened far too often now that I'm starting to suspect. Not only do they steal your gold, but fuck 20 damage a turn right out of the gates.
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
My past few runs the first spawn on the second level has been particularly brutal. Might just be RNG though.
Not guaranteed, but it's one of the most likely encounters. Of course, there are weekly changes so who knows really :P
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Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
I'm kind of the opposite. That 6hp per combat (plus a higher starting health) means I can take on Elites with less fear.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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I value my hp too much. Or gold too little, I'm pretty sure I didn't hit a single shop in Acts 2-3 in my last two successful runs...
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I have no clue as to why anybody would waste their time on a game where victory is as out of the hands of the player as FTL.
It has zero tension or interest for me, because either the first couple of sectors are good or I'm fucked and I've wasted my time. May as well just write a program that tells me I'm a winner or loser based on RNG, and let that run while I play a game worth actually playing. Getting forty minutes into a game and randomly getting tossed completely unwinnable conditions is about the biggest waste of time I can think of, and about some of the worst game design.
It's not that bad, actually. Good players (not me) can win with very high consistency.
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"High consistency" means they still lose for reasons beyond their control, despite having far, far more knowledge of the game than I would even remotely consider learning. For people with more limited knowledge, it's basically an ongoing crap shoot.
So victory is still an RNG situation, and I've got shitloads better things to do than play something that is more dice throw than good design.
EDIT: If you like FTL, don't take my view on that personally. I lived in Reno for several years and I have a pretty dim view of any kind of random chance masked as entertainment, so I judge something like FTL really harshly.
"High consistency" as in "winning every single time on normal difficulty".
Similarly, the winning streak for Slay the Spire is around 25 wins in a row.
It is sort of random, but easy to adjust to if you know what you're looking for. I find this game far, far more random than FTL was.
There are runs that I straight up lose because of an early-game shuffle that leads to multiple bad turns.
I know they're coming, but there is nothing I can do about it.
I need a button I can hit to at least lose a turn -> shuffle my hand & deck.
Finally starting to get good with Silent, 929 and 946 on my last two runs.
Wasn't offered a single Energy boosting boss Relic, so this was done on the stock 3. I had some ways to manipulate things by killing enemies and/or Adrenaline. Basically I stalled out getting my 3 Accuracy's in play, then held on to Storm of Steel and Acrobatics. A hand full of high damage Shivs is the light.
But hands-down, the MVP card(s) of the run were Cloak and Dagger. Block + free damage? Yes please!
Got lucky getting the Shuriken and buying the Letter Opener, the latter of which helped me clear the spike enemies on floor 3.
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That's why its important to keep a small deck. By the time it starts to matter you want to cycle through your deck everyother turn at the least. Most games I can cycle through my deck more than once each turn. Buy every card removal you can.
I don't think I've ever had a situation where skipping a turn to reshuffle would have had any meaningful value. What does that look like?