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WAKANDA FOREVER! [Black Panther] Is out now

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    I liked it a lot, but there were some real awkward "say what we are doing while were doing it or just before scenes." And there was a lot of bad in the framing of the fight scenes, which is weird because creed was awesome.
    And some theme above story issues, but the theme is so important that I got it

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    miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Lalabox wrote: »
    General spoilers
    i'm interested in reading someone smarter and more knowledheable than me unpack the politics of the film because i can't help but shake the feeling that it's a very neoliberal take on the subject

    The framing at the end of the solution to oppression being cultural outreach centres and science exchange programs just rubs me the wrong way

    in re: Black Panther political messaging
    There have been some comparisons to a MLK / Malcolm X dialectic in this movie, but I think it's actually straight-up more just isolationist/separatist strains of thought and more retributive/militant strains of thought, all of which can be found in the history of the Nation of Islam as well as Malcolm X. I think that this core of intra-black philosophical conflict is, well, incredibly pertinent right now and a good thing to feature prominently. I sympathize with your concern about what the movie then synthesizes as a lesson, because I think what comes out of this dialectic is MLK-lite: T'Challa concludes that isolationism is merely another name for acceptance of worldwide injustice, but that violence cannot be the answer due to the cyclical nature of hatred and the hypocritical injustice inherently created in violent revolutions (he tells Killmonger something like "then we'll be just as bad as them" during the ending fight scene). It might be seen as a bit of a cop-out to politically correct (read: acceptable to whites) messaging, the same cop-out of 'non-violent resistance' that got young Malcolm X incensed.

    However: although peaceful outreach does feel like an imperfect solution, I don't think there really is any better general philosophical solution given the complexities of the African diaspora and the history of injustice, because we cannot erase those things, and I think it's self-evident that violent retribution is truly hypocritical, even if viscerally desired. The next-best solution from a certain lens may be the inculcation of Black Excellence and empowerment through cultural outreach of the most technologically advanced and wealthy nation in the world. That outreach - of knowing what blacks have achieved and can achieve - cannot be taken lightly, both symbolically and logistically. Even if it is a little bit reverse-neoliberal in the underlying cultural imperialism (although keep in mind that we know very little about what forms those 'cultural outreach' centers will look like).

    (The MLK comparisons are highly limited of course, because T'Challa never had to live under Jim Crow after all, and Wakanda is kind of an idealized Liberia in some ways which further complicates 1:1 IRL philosophical comparisons.)

    Eddy on
    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    PaperLuigi44PaperLuigi44 My amazement is at maximum capacity. Registered User regular
    I enjoyed this movie a lot!

    spoilers
    Shuri definitely stole the show whenever she was around. She managed to be comic relief that was both badass and not annoying. Really liked the changes to M'Baku, too.

    I have to picture the Bucky scene as serene in my head, as I was sat next to a screaming/bouncing fangirl who went nuts when he showed up.

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    miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    Shuri's 'WHAT ARE THOOOSE' was one of the first real moments of levity in the movie, and one of the best

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    ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Fantastic movie.

    My biggest knock is that there's some BAD cg and green screen. Like distractingly bad. It stands out so much because everything else about the movie is top notch.

    yeah at the end
    the cliff that theyre standing on before they look out onto the sunset looked like something out of peter jacksons king kong. It was distractingly bad. I also wasnt much of a fan of really any of the action outside of the south korea section. But even despite that the movie was still great

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    It was ok.
    The invincible suits kinda make every fight a boring and pointless waste of time. There's no tactics of getting around it, panther with no suit doesn't overcome kilmonger with a suit or anything so they're just superman v superman except they managed to fall onto the one place that can temporarily deactivate their suits. Unless that flip spear move was telegraphed earlier it just seemed like a weird way to end the fight. They're both equal but flip spear stab. Over.

    The two non powered fights are predictable, most of the film was predictable and... meh. It was just ok. Nothing any more special than most of the other solo films.

    I did like that they made kilmonger sympathetic, I will say he was wasted since they never really explore him much as king or how the people react to him. They don't really explain the people much at all in the actual heart of the city which feels like a wasted opportunity.

    I think they possibly went too far with some of the tech. The power creep in the mcu in general is going too fast for the real world analogue to keep going.

    I don't regret watching it but I have no interest in watching it again.

    The sister was good though.

    AlphaRomero on
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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    The issue with all superhero movies is that all fights are inherently boring CGI'ed messes with predictable outcomes. It's so bad that GOTG2 poked a little fun at the trope at the beginning (before playing it painfully, painfully straight at the end)

    That's the price you pay to make these movies for wide audiences

    Eddy on
    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I just rewatched the Infinity War trailer for the Wakanda/Black Panther scenes and even more excited.

    Amazing what Marvel has done really, each movie adding context to their previous and next and just making me excited about them.

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    Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Saw this last night, excellent movie.
    The CG rhinos were iffy, but I thought the rest of the SFX were fine.

    Best gag: Tie between "M'Baku's "Just kidding, we're vegetarians" and his "Are you done?" bit.

    I bet Wakandan planes have gesture-activated weapons because Shuri watches a lot of super robot anime and tokusatsu shows.

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    The shield cloaks are fucking awesome

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    SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    I liked everything about this movie. It was amazing

    Story, characters, acting, sci-fi technology, music, the call to action

    Awesome women in varied roles

    Definitely in my top 3 favourite Marvel movies even though I need to figure out the overall order.

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    JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    It was ok.
    The invincible suits kinda make every fight a boring and pointless waste of time. There's no tactics of getting around it, panther with no suit doesn't overcome kilmonger with a suit or anything so they're just superman v superman except they managed to fall onto the one place that can temporarily deactivate their suits. Unless that flip spear move was telegraphed earlier it just seemed like a weird way to end the fight. They're both equal but flip spear stab. Over.

    The two non powered fights are predictable, most of the film was predictable and... meh. It was just ok. Nothing any more special than most of the other solo films.

    I did like that they made kilmonger sympathetic, I will say he was wasted since they never really explore him much as king or how the people react to him. They don't really explain the people much at all in the actual heart of the city which feels like a wasted opportunity.

    I think they possibly went too far with some of the tech. The power creep in the mcu in general is going too fast for the real world analogue to keep going.

    I don't regret watching it but I have no interest in watching it again.

    The sister was good though.

    Killmonger
    went from sympathetic to SUPER EVIL like that. Like he becomes king and then proceedes to start threatening women and burning sacred flowers and MURDER MUDER MURDER
    Also I think that they may be a need to do some changed to your government structure if any relative can just come on over get into a fight and take over.

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Well I thought this was pretty damn good. Fantastic use of colour and texture throughout, great performances across the cast (shoutout to Danai Gurira, hello), plus it had something more than bad guys are bad to say. That said I think the final punchup got a bit flaily.
    War Rhinos, shield cloaks and the sand-table things where all super cool takes on that sort of sci-fi idea. There's got to be another supply of heart shaped herb seeds though right? No way that whole legacy is gone.

    I do wonder if they asked to film in The British Museum and got turned down, or if Generic Museum of Britain was just a tactful substitute

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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    Saw this yesterday. I really liked it. I didn't feel totally energized by it in the theater because I think most of the action isn't very good. But everything else is some of the best stuff we've seen from Marvel. I'm a sucker for a charismatic, sympathetic villain, and Killmonger is definitely that. I enjoyed the hell out of all the characters, really. Wakanda itself is an amazingly well-realized place, and the style is incredible. The cityscape, the individual buildings, the markets, and the people all look awesome.

    I know everyone has mentioned it already, but it was surprising and kind of refreshing to see a big budget Marvel movie that has something to say, that's about something more than personal growth or WMDs are bad. And it says it loud.

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    PaperLuigi44PaperLuigi44 My amazement is at maximum capacity. Registered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    It was ok.
    The invincible suits kinda make every fight a boring and pointless waste of time. There's no tactics of getting around it, panther with no suit doesn't overcome kilmonger with a suit or anything so they're just superman v superman except they managed to fall onto the one place that can temporarily deactivate their suits. Unless that flip spear move was telegraphed earlier it just seemed like a weird way to end the fight. They're both equal but flip spear stab. Over.

    The two non powered fights are predictable, most of the film was predictable and... meh. It was just ok. Nothing any more special than most of the other solo films.

    I did like that they made kilmonger sympathetic, I will say he was wasted since they never really explore him much as king or how the people react to him. They don't really explain the people much at all in the actual heart of the city which feels like a wasted opportunity.

    I think they possibly went too far with some of the tech. The power creep in the mcu in general is going too fast for the real world analogue to keep going.

    I don't regret watching it but I have no interest in watching it again.

    The sister was good though.

    Killmonger
    went from sympathetic to SUPER EVIL like that. Like he becomes king and then proceedes to start threatening women and burning sacred flowers and MURDER MUDER MURDER
    Also I think that they may be a need to do some changed to your government structure if any relative can just come on over get into a fight and take over.
    Killmonger also shot his girlfriend without a hint of regret along the way, and Ross states how vicious he is and how good he is at destabilising nations. Burning the heart-shaped herbs was a good tactical move as it (almost) prevented anyone else from powering themselves up to challenge him while also being a strike against Wakandan culture. His brutality had the intention of quickly intimidating anyone who would challenge his rule.

    As for the trial by combat, that was there to solidify a Black Panther's rule, since if any tribe has any issues they can put up or shut up. T'Challa obviously had been training for that moment his whole life, but an exiled outsider receiving Black Ops training is arguably extraordinary circumstances.

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    This movie is basically what Thor 1 would’ve been like if they had all been like Ragnarok. Very good and I’ll be floored if they announce phase 4 and BP2 isn’t part of it.

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    I'm wondering if they'll address in the future
    How various countries around the world will react to not only one, but two "new" nations (Wakanda after BP and Asgard after Ragnarok) taking a space on the world stage, both of whom have technological capabilities which far outstrip everything else humanity has managed.

    I can't imagine the USA would take too kindly to these new technological powers.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Psykoma wrote: »
    I'm wondering if they'll address in the future
    How various countries around the world will react to not only one, but two "new" nations (Wakanda after BP and Asgard after Ragnarok) taking a space on the world stage, both of whom have technological capabilities which far outstrip everything else humanity has managed.

    I can't imagine the USA would take too kindly to these new technological powers.

    We will see if Asgard survives to colonize earth but I hope it does.

    That sounds a lot like Hickamans Avengers especially if Latvaria joins that list.

    Quire.jpg
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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin

    Psykoma wrote: »
    I'm wondering if they'll address in the future
    How various countries around the world will react to not only one, but two "new" nations (Wakanda after BP and Asgard after Ragnarok) taking a space on the world stage, both of whom have technological capabilities which far outstrip everything else humanity has managed.

    I can't imagine the USA would take too kindly to these new technological powers.

    well
    Asgard is, post Ragnarok, mostly floating through space, and drastically reduced. And we still have Infinity War to get through.

    Also the MCU is largely not great at picking up story threads like this from movie to movie outside of like, a brief moment at the start of a movie that they quickly abandon

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    I very much enjoyed this movie.

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    TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    Imagine if
    Asgard landed in Wakanda

    Give me that movie

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    miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    the music in this movie was so good you guys

    best score in the whole MCU imo
    https://open.spotify.com/album/7KDslrXaOYS28ferZi5UVK

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    It was ok.
    The invincible suits kinda make every fight a boring and pointless waste of time. There's no tactics of getting around it, panther with no suit doesn't overcome kilmonger with a suit or anything so they're just superman v superman except they managed to fall onto the one place that can temporarily deactivate their suits. Unless that flip spear move was telegraphed earlier it just seemed like a weird way to end the fight. They're both equal but flip spear stab. Over.

    The two non powered fights are predictable, most of the film was predictable and... meh. It was just ok. Nothing any more special than most of the other solo films.

    I did like that they made kilmonger sympathetic, I will say he was wasted since they never really explore him much as king or how the people react to him. They don't really explain the people much at all in the actual heart of the city which feels like a wasted opportunity.

    I think they possibly went too far with some of the tech. The power creep in the mcu in general is going too fast for the real world analogue to keep going.

    I don't regret watching it but I have no interest in watching it again.

    The sister was good though.

    Killmonger
    went from sympathetic to SUPER EVIL like that. Like he becomes king and then proceedes to start threatening women and burning sacred flowers and MURDER MUDER MURDER
    Also I think that they may be a need to do some changed to your government structure if any relative can just come on over get into a fight and take over.
    That super well fits thematically with Killmonger basically representing colonialism as an existential threat to Wakanda. He goes in there thinking that because he read the rules he understands the culture, and that all this belongs to him by right, and that therefore he has no duty of respect towards it. It's a real interesting flip when you realize that while he considers himself black and Wakandan above all, he goes in there as an American, understanding nothing of Wakanda.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    SimBen wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    It was ok.
    The invincible suits kinda make every fight a boring and pointless waste of time. There's no tactics of getting around it, panther with no suit doesn't overcome kilmonger with a suit or anything so they're just superman v superman except they managed to fall onto the one place that can temporarily deactivate their suits. Unless that flip spear move was telegraphed earlier it just seemed like a weird way to end the fight. They're both equal but flip spear stab. Over.

    The two non powered fights are predictable, most of the film was predictable and... meh. It was just ok. Nothing any more special than most of the other solo films.

    I did like that they made kilmonger sympathetic, I will say he was wasted since they never really explore him much as king or how the people react to him. They don't really explain the people much at all in the actual heart of the city which feels like a wasted opportunity.

    I think they possibly went too far with some of the tech. The power creep in the mcu in general is going too fast for the real world analogue to keep going.

    I don't regret watching it but I have no interest in watching it again.

    The sister was good though.

    Killmonger
    went from sympathetic to SUPER EVIL like that. Like he becomes king and then proceedes to start threatening women and burning sacred flowers and MURDER MUDER MURDER
    Also I think that they may be a need to do some changed to your government structure if any relative can just come on over get into a fight and take over.
    That super well fits thematically with Killmonger basically representing colonialism as an existential threat to Wakanda. He goes in there thinking that because he read the rules he understands the culture, and that all this belongs to him by right, and that therefore he has no duty of respect towards it. It's a real interesting flip when you realize that while he considers himself black and Wakandan above all, he goes in there as an American, understanding nothing of Wakanda.

    He also it seems to me
    Represents the crushing poison of colonialism and how it effects everything it touches. Its an ideology that propagates itself and convinces you that the only way to escape being enslaved by other you must enslave them first.

    A lot of this movie reminded me of the rebellion plot from bioshock infinite but from the perspective of the victims so it comes across a lot clearer and doesnt end up saying stuff it doesnt intend to say.

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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I mentioned this in the D&D thread, but I was thinking of who they could use as an antagonist for the sequel, and thought that Namor would be really cool.

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    Wakanda forever
    But said in the same time as spring break forever

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    I mentioned this in the D&D thread, but I was thinking of who they could use as an antagonist for the sequel, and thought that Namor would be really cool.

    A war between the two kings would be awesome.

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    JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
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    JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular


    I have no idea to what extent this could be true or even knowable, I just thought it was interesting to see a film critic say this

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    Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    I really liked this. The woman who played the general was the most stone cold of badasses and the sister was awesome and Killmonger was awesome and T'Challa was awesome and that car chase was awesome and the music was awesome.

    I do kinda wish that some people would cool down on the "game-changer" rhetoric in the internet. I'd hate to see this really good movie be undermined by too much Twitter overselling. I've seen over-hype shove away potential viewers before and this movie really should have maximum eyeballs on it.

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    Danai Gurira stole this whole movie for me.

    She was so great.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Ending Spoilers
    This is the first MCU movie where I wish they didn't kill off the bad guy because he was really good and I wanted more of him. His final words were incredible though.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Also I am disappointed that the Lego set with early movie Killmonger has a mold of his mask and not a mold for his even more amazing hair.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Ending Spoilers
    This is the first MCU movie where I wish they didn't kill off the bad guy because he was really good and I wanted more of him. His final words were incredible though.
    Right?!

    That line was the perfect cap onto an entire movie that gave zero fucks about whether white america would be comfortable watching this movie.

    Oh another layer of this film: I feel like there is a lot of Wakanda=USA commentary going on in this movie with topics of refugees, interventionism and isolationism.

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    No Great NameNo Great Name FRAUD DETECTED Registered User regular
    Things that were bad in this movie: The Fights, and the CGI.

    Things that were great in this movie: Everything else.

    although, being a marvel movie the plot is a known quantity.

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    TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    Oh another layer of this film: I feel like there is a lot of Wakanda=USA commentary going on in this movie with topics of refugees, interventionism and isolationism.
    Not just the US. Basically every country with conservatives arguing against immigration

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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    I kind of like that everyone says the fights are almost completely superfluous to how good the movie is.

    I mean, I love a good fight scene, but I'm glad Marvel is going for it.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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