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[Gloomhaven] A small, quick party game

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
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    Scenario four. Cleared the first room halfway through turn two, feeling pretty good, cleared the next, took some damage, went into the top room and oh my god that shield 2 on the wind elementals almost failed the scenario. Constantly failed to get through it and my cards were being eaten up.

    Eventually killed them and the Spellweaver ran off to kill the Earth Demon while the Brute lagged behind. The Spellweaver pulled a lucky bless to almost kill it and then baited it out into the second room while the Brute managed to trundle up and hit it for exactly its remaining HP.

    I was on 2 and 1 HP and had played the last two cards for both characters, so if I hadn’t killed it that turn I would have failed. Didn’t have time to loot the last chest, which I discovered was a ruddy trap anyway. Gloriously close game.

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    The cat did not help.

    She's just trying to help you manage your spells !

    FryJustTeeElvenshae
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    We gave our shiny new Bolt a run tonight. It one-shotted two Elite Lv4 Flame Demons. O_O
    At Level 6, Bolt gets access to a card that says "Attack 4. You may take 2 damage to ignore the target's armor." That seems like a fine deal with a deck filled with +1 modifiers.

    nedhf8b6a4rj.jpgsig.gif
    (Former) Gaming Unplugged columnist and video game reviewer at Snackbar Games
    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
    Auralynx
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Oh yeah, I was going to mention that in our last game, which was a "kill the boss" scenario, our tinkerer did like 13 damage to it in one turn by using huge lost attacks on both top and bottom. Kind of impressive, usually that character doesn't do much in our party.

    Fry on
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
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    Scenario 3 all sorted with one character exhausted in the penultimate round. I could technically start one character on his retirement journey after doing the two open crypt scenarios, or I could follow what seems to be the main story path more.

    What’s the average number of missions a character goes on before retirement? Ballpark figure.

    Elvenshae
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Retirement varies a lot. Sometimes you'll pick a personal quest and just not see the things you need to progress for a dozen scenarios or more. I have also heard of a situation where someone retired a character, and then immediately retired the new character before even going on a new scenario.

    Fry on
    ElvenshaeAuralynxVyolynceFairchild
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
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    Scenario 5, and again the Spellweaver was exhausted before the end. No real difficulties, though, and at the end the Brute was just kiting the Living Bones around while he looted money. Also, level 3 get.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Whoa, you're hitting Level 3 in five scenarios ? Yes, the Brute levels quickly, but that's some impressive efficiency right there.

    In terms of retirement, I've decided that it's my game, dangit, and I'm going to retire who I want when I want, rather than chase some of these ridiculous conditions that never appear.

  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
    It’s five scenarios completed and three failed attempts at one and two as well. I actually hit 95xp on the way to scenario five via a road event. I’m getting an average of 11 to 13 from each scenario, plus the 6xp bonus when I don’t fail.

  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
    Scenario 6 took three attempts but I got the with my last card before the Brute was exhausted. It was the third crypt scenario I’ve done so I’m going to do the Seeker of Xorn quest and retire the Spellweaver. She’s great and all but she’s only made it to the end of like three scenarios. Too squishy even with the recover lost cards ability.

    zk3qhswtwzp2.jpeg

    The Brute is now level 4 as well, and I have two Gloomhaven scenarios queued up to do his Vengeance quest so hopefully the other two will pop up soonish.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    I agree with you about the Spellweaver; when it comes to class balance, she's too much Glass and not enough Cannon.

    VyolynceAuralynx
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    Spellweaver can last plenty long so long as you aren't taking hits that force you to lose cards from hand. Even if you are using the occasional lost card (which you probably should be), the power of Reviving Ether tends to give the Spellweaver about as many turns as a 10 hand size character.

    My poor Scoundrel with 9 hand size basically can't afford to use lost cards ever, outside of maybe a Smoke Bomb to set up for the last room of an encounter :X

    Check this out:
    http://www.boardgamemath.com/boardgames/gloomhaven/gloomhavenStaminaGuide.html

    JustTee
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
    At least one of the Spellweaver exhaustions was down to only having the recover lost cards card in my hand when I took a hit that would have exhausted me, and once that's gone before you've used it it's a very short ticking clock to exhaustion.

    Most of the genuinely good powers she has are card loss effects, so I find myself burning through them quite quickly, doing as much damage as possible and then tapping out of the scenario early hoping I've done enough to let the Brute finish everyone else off. She has some great powers (the three fireballs combined with a power potion is a great alpha strike), but I'll be happy to play a character with less intensive hand management.

  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Bogart wrote: »
    At least one of the Spellweaver exhaustions was down to only having the recover lost cards card in my hand when I took a hit that would have exhausted me, and once that's gone before you've used it it's a very short ticking clock to exhaustion.

    Most of the genuinely good powers she has are card loss effects, so I find myself burning through them quite quickly, doing as much damage as possible and then tapping out of the scenario early hoping I've done enough to let the Brute finish everyone else off. She has some great powers (the three fireballs combined with a power potion is a great alpha strike), but I'll be happy to play a character with less intensive hand management.

    Just for the record, you know you can lose two discarded cards too? With Spellweaver that isn't always an option but just thought I'd check.

    Vyolynce on
    nedhf8b6a4rj.jpgsig.gif
    (Former) Gaming Unplugged columnist and video game reviewer at Snackbar Games
    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    At least one of the Spellweaver exhaustions was down to only having the recover lost cards card in my hand when I took a hit that would have exhausted me, and once that's gone before you've used it it's a very short ticking clock to exhaustion.

    Most of the genuinely good powers she has are card loss effects, so I find myself burning through them quite quickly, doing as much damage as possible and then tapping out of the scenario early hoping I've done enough to let the Brute finish everyone else off. She has some great powers (the three fireballs combined with a power potion is a great alpha strike), but I'll be happy to play a character with less intensive hand management.

    Just for the record, you know you can lose two discarded cards too? With Spellweaver that isn't always an option but just thought I'd check.

    I forgot that rule, but I think at the point it happened I was close to needing to fire that card anyway. It would have given me a turn or two extra, so it would have been worth it, but still.

    I do like the combo of an invisibility cloak following a Move 8 into a new room to attack and then loot a chest from under the noses of the bad guys. Time it right on the next turn by doing something real late in the initiative order (after the bad guys) and you can have two pain free turns of happy slaughter.

    VyolynceJustTeeElvenshaeFryRiokenn
  • JustTeeJustTee Registered User regular
    Gonna spoil some Spellweaver progression stuff. No major or specific spoilers, just thoughts on it as it levels (general spoilers to about level 5-6ish, as that's as high as ours got before retiring):
    Initially, Spellweaver feels like a very tricky hand management class, as many of your good abilities are loss cards, and timing your reclaim lost cards is paramount. But, as you level, you'll gain non-loss cards that are extremely powerful and versatile. By level 4-5, our spellweaver was doing more damage (spread across multiple targets, but still) than my Mind Thief, and was similarly capable of dishing out CC, but at a bigger range than the MT.

    Couple it with the recover lost cards ability, and you had an extremely powerful, versatile class that generally was more than capable of being one of the last players standing.

    The only times (after the first few scenarios) that our Spellweaver exhausted were due to miscalculated timings on jumping into the fray with Frost Armor.

    Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
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    Scenario 52 took three turns. The Spellweaver got their chest in 2, the Brute took a turn longer.

    Admittedly this was the second attempt, because first time round the living corpses immobilised both characters. This absolutely knackered the Spellweaver, who had picked the move 8 and restore lost cards powers and then couldn’t use either before getting hammered.

    Opened envelope B, which was less exciting than I’d have liked, but hey ho. Close to opening up the squid head box now.

    Elvenshae
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Is that Cthulhu Face ? You will love that guy. He is so overpowered that it quickly becomes laughable.

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    I understand he's been toned down in 2nd ed?

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    I didn't find him to be that impressive in 1st ed but he retired quickly so I didn't see much of him.

    nedhf8b6a4rj.jpgsig.gif
    (Former) Gaming Unplugged columnist and video game reviewer at Snackbar Games
    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Hey, Forgotten Circles got here. Base game campaign spoilers:
    I appreciate that the intro blurb is "that final boss fight was weird, huh? Why were we fighting some stabby elf guy all of a sudden? We should probably ask someone about that"

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  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2019
    Scenario 53 is incredibly difficult, it seems.

    Edit: Nope, I just messed up the level of the scenario.

    Bogart on
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
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    Yeah, much easier at something other than +2 difficulty. One more scenario until retirement.

    VyolynceElvenshae
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    So our campaign keeps having the issue of clustering retirements. Brute bas been a constant in our party as the fourth in all of this changing. This has had an interestingly swingy effect on our power. We retired 2 almost back to back at first unlocking 3 Spears and Bolts to replace our Scoundrel and Spellweaver which went really smooth. At the same time our Tinkerer retired into a Cragheart.

    This was an unstoppable machine it felt like. We We steam rolled a bunch of shit into another cluster of 3 retirements which saw Cragheart swap our for 2 Mini, 3 Spears for Saw, and Bolt for Mindthief. It took us one mission before Saw just got chucked away for Sun. We switched from hard to easy because our team collapsed around us while everyone struggled to figure out how to make this team gel. We got a decent rythem finally, but it has been rough. I was the one running through the Spellweaver to Bolt to Mindthief and I could not get her to run. Bolt was a dream to me though and exactly the kind of character I love to run.

    Now we have retired Mindthief to my great delight (although the last mission she was a fucking beast) for Eclipse, and Sun is rolling with Music Note. We had unlocked the opposite class but after looking at them decided to swap. I am really looking forward to the beastly shit the combo should unleash. The Brute retires next though and that will be bizarre. I am hoping those two classes are half as capable as we think they are cause they look straight broke.

  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    I have been Mindthief, Eclipse, and Notes (plus a couple uninspired runs as a Spellweaver). Eclipse and Notes are indeed crazy although I'm not sure they really synergize other than Notes just doing her thing.

    nedhf8b6a4rj.jpgsig.gif
    (Former) Gaming Unplugged columnist and video game reviewer at Snackbar Games
    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Yeah once the Brute retires it is going to be an interesting pick for which way he goes to pull the team together. One one hand it feels like we have a lot of power to be flexible, but on the other I don't know that we have a unifying battle strategy which could hurt us badly again. At least it looks like it will be a bit before the two of us who have been burning up the personal quests will be retiring anyone. Minimum of 15 for one guy, and mine is extremely unlikely to trigger accidentally at this point I think.

  • RiokennRiokenn Registered User regular
    Got a rules question for Brute's Lv.1 bottom ability Overwhelming Assault.
    The bottom of the card reads Move 3 and under it is Push 2 one adjacent enemy.
    If the brute is immobilized for the turn, can he still preform the Push 2 part? Being the DM I allowed it since Movement is only up to the number, so in mind me moved 0 and push 2.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Riokenn wrote: »
    Got a rules question for Brute's Lv.1 bottom ability Overwhelming Assault.
    The bottom of the card reads Move 3 and under it is Push 2 one adjacent enemy.
    If the brute is immobilized for the turn, can he still preform the Push 2 part? Being the DM I allowed it since Movement is only up to the number, so in mind me moved 0 and push 2.

    @Riokenn

    They're two separate abilities, and you can perform one without performing the other.

    From the FAQ:
    66wxomoj70xi.png

    FryRiokenn
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    So we ran Scenario 60 and it was as amazing as I had hoped. Partly from class power, and partly from getting back into roles we were all more comfortable with.

    Note, Eclipse, and 2 mini spoilers. Item 088 and prosperity 5, Scenario 60 spoilers as well
    With the Bard going lightning fast it really smoothed things out. Her songs have nuts initiative. It really helped with her using a Wand of Darkness first move so I could just rush across the map with impunity. Double move with Hawk boots to give a total of around 10 movement I think in the end. Quickly got me into the room with the 3 drakes that I handily soloed while the rest of my team did their thing. Admittedly just needing to run in, loot shit, and then run out probably played to the strengths of our 2 new classes as well.

    I also loved being able to plug up a bunch of monsters by abusing invis and proper placement. Got the Hounds off our asses, and thanks to a sacrifice bear looting by Beast Master I could keep all but one viper from hitting us. Also got to show up the Brute who all but died trying a loot and run till I saved his ass.

    I guess I can't expect explicit synergy from the Bard but she does seem to fill some holes for me. Movement seemed like it would have been a big issue of not for her song. Life regeneration was also nice given I can avoid hits for so long. Mitigating fire damage on this scenario was also pretty cool. I will happily take general synergy with everyone that fills gaps over specifically with one class honestly.

    Gnizmo on
    Auralynx
  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    My wife and I are rolling with Angry Face and Three Spears and we're both coming up on retirement. Kind of dreading it. They have been a devastatingly effective combo.

    vm8gvf5p7gqi.jpg
    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
    Elvenshae
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
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    Scenario 54 done pretty easily. Spellweaver retired, squidface unlocked over the decomposing remains. Looking forward to poisoning everything in sight. Got the Greed quest, so I guess I’ll be using him for a while.

    Elvenshae
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    I can just picture the scene when Squidface kicks in the door to find a room full of Mooks. One sweep of Squidface's arm and you're all Poisoned, then another sweep and you're all Dead. While the rest of the party peers over Squidface's shoulder and says collectively, "Damn."

    Fairchild on
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    This has probably been asked a ton of times, I apologize for not being good enough at google-fu to pull this info.

    We are going to play our first game of Gloomhaven tomorrow. 3 players. I am the designated rules guy, so I've been reading the manual as my first step.
    But I thought I'd try and reach out and see if anyone has some good community resources to use.. whether some print-able player aids or frequently messed up rules sheet.
    Or even a player-revised manual or something that makes this huge monstrosity easier to parse.

    I'll even take stories of hilarious first time mistakes and why I should learn from them or replicate them for similar hilarity :P

    Elvenshae
  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Get the official FAQ and keep it handy.

    Other than that, don't sweat it. Everyone makes mistakes.

    nedhf8b6a4rj.jpgsig.gif
    (Former) Gaming Unplugged columnist and video game reviewer at Snackbar Games
    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
    Elvenshae
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    It's easy to overly restrict yourself on what you can do with your chosen action cards.

    I think it might be easiest, when explaining rules, to do a "practice first turn" where everyone picks two of their cards at random, you walk everyone through resolving those cards, and then you reset and start playing "for real" including having the monsters act.

    - After everyone has chosen cards, have everyone pick one of their two cards for initiative number.
    - Player A, your initiative is lowest, so you're going first. Choose one of your two cards to resolve first. It doesn't have to be the one you used for initiative number!
    - There are four options for using your chosen card: top action, alternate top action (Attack 2), bottom action, alternate bottom action (Move 2). Which one do you want to do?
    - (Resolve it)
    - OK, now you need to use your other card. If you used the top half of the first card, you must use the bottom half of the second card, and vice versa. Which of the two options (main action/alternate action) would you like to use?
    - Continue with other players
    - Note that you don't have to do "what you were intending" when you picked your action cards. You decide what you're doing when your initiative comes up. If circumstances have changed, you may want to use different options on your chosen cards!

    Elvenshae
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    @Lorek

    I linked it before, but the Gloomhaven FAQ covers basically every rule question I can think of.

    The most important thing to learn / practice is monster targeting rules, since it's the easiest thing to mess up.

    You start with all your starting cards in your hand, except the ones marked with an X; you don't have a draw pile and a hand, etc. You can swap those "X" cards with one of the cards in your starting hand, but probably don't do that until your second game since they're a little trickier to use well.

    You don't have to decide which top action and which bottom action you'll do until it's your turn. The card you used as your initiative has no bearing on which actions you take.

    Be stingy with your "Loss" cards; it's very easy to use them too quickly and run out of cards to play.

    You can lose 1 card from your hand (or two from your discard pile) to avoid all damage from one source of damage. This is usually better than dying. :D

    ED: Oh - you don't gain XP for killing a monster, just for using abilities that say they grant XP.

    When you complete the "mission ends" parameters, it ends at the end of the round - any gold or treasure left laying around is lost.

    Elvenshae on
  • JustTeeJustTee Registered User regular
    I'm having a lot of issues with Cthulhu face. Nested spoilers within for thoughts on some other classes as well, but no spoilers unmarked otherwise.
    I started at level 2, and have advanced to level 3. Currently, I just don't feel like this class does *anything* particularly effectively.
    Cursethulhu - Your base curse cards are also your biggest attack value cards. Often (about half the time in the last scenario we played), I end up going last, or near to last, of the players, so everything on the board is usually already damaged, so I very rarely get to attack full strength foes, which means, a ton of times, my curse cards end up killing the monsters, which then don't get cursed. Also since I'm slow, I often get blocked at door openings because everyone else takes up space, so range 2 and 3 attacks just fizzle all the time.

    Poisonthulhu - Feels super trolly. We have a Sun in our party, so (slight sun spoilers)
    They don't really mind being in the front of things, nor do they mind getting poisoned
    but even then, by the time I set up Poisoned foes -> Virulent Strain for true damage, the monsters are often dead already. Also, the big huge AoE I have often targets at best 5, but mostly 3-4 when I'm super lucky.

    I just don't feel like there are any *crazy* good cards at the moment, and certainly no cards feel super thematic or worth building around. I've read about enhancing Biting Gnats with Curse so that you have a safer Attack 2 range 4 to curse with, and that at level 4 I get a good card for adding curses (Nightmarish Affliction), but right now, I feel very ineffective. My "big" damage attacks should be lower damage higher range so that I can actually curse shit, and my low damage status effect AoEs often end up whiffing or hitting half the hexes or less.

    In comparison to some of the other classes we've unlocked:
    Sun
    Permanent Shield 1. Multiple ways of getting additional sources of shield. Retaliate 2 in melee. Solid move and attack options outside of that theme. Obvious weaknesses of no status effects or AoEs, but a very effective class built around tanking, and dishing out big, single hits.
    Note
    Songs are fucking crazy pants. Free exp every single round. Non-loss adjusting which song you need. Crazy synergy with Sun class (Rng2 Retaliate 2 straight up broke scenarios since we had both these classes available, though maybe the Wound song would help my AoEs do a bit more). Really, really strong debuffer. Curse cards that deal no damage so no risk of failure. Card that doubles any cursing you do makes all that shit even MORE effective. Very little damage output as an obvious down side, but holy shit - either the Wound Song or the Retaliate song contributes SO MUCH passive damage and none of it cares about shield or your own deck modifier. Honestly this class feels crazy broken from what I've seen.
    Angry Face
    We only had 2 scenarios with this guy, but holy shit - Doom tokens, Ranged attacks off turn, bouncing doom around, high experience gain. All about long range damage output and everything in his kit seemed to work that way. Complicated to get everything right at times, but the first scenario we had with him he basically solo'd half the board.
    Concentric Circles
    We've only had 1 scenario with the summoner so far, but he seems pretty cool. Definitely built around summons, which are usually bad, but has ways to activate them on their turn and control the actions while doing so, as well as ways to recover them after using them. Honestly, I don't know how *strong*/good this class is, but it definitely *feels* pretty cool. Plus in the first scenario played, our summoner got 20 exp before scenario bonuses.

    It's possible that I'm struggling so much because Note basically does everything I do but better, and the combo of Sun+Note feels super, super strong and I don't really contribute at all?

    It feels similar to Mind Thief, in that, I don't think low level MT is very good at any one thing, and the good cards don't come until much, much later. And The Mind's Weakness feels mandatory, and doesn't really reward you. Whereas with Notes
    songs giving you exp every turn feels crazy good - maybe Augments could give extra EXP every time you use them? Or something?
    . In our initial party set up, it felt like the Spellweaver was a more effective CC'er, who could also do reasonable AoE damage. And the Scoundrel was MUCH better at doing single target damage, and I felt kind of like a worthless middle ground between the two?

    I guess I just feel like my classes haven't been particularly effective? I'm still really enjoying the game overall, but feel like my personal contributions to our success have been relatively minimal.

    Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    There are magic items out there that increase your toon's movement speed and modify his slot in player order, have you looked at those ?

    Auralynx
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    There are magic items out there that increase your toon's movement speed and modify his slot in player order, have you looked at those ?

    From what I recall that guy seemed like a great fit for the initiative boots, yeah.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    You can lose 1 card from your hand (or two from your discard pile) to avoid all damage from one attack. This is usually better than dying. :D

    Doesn't have to be an actual attack. Any time you take damage for any reason it can be prevented this way if you have the card(s) to pay for it.

    When you complete the "mission ends" parameters, it ends immediately - any gold or treasure left laying around is lost.

    Scenario ends at the completion of the round. Anyone going later is free to loot and/ or stunt (what my group calls burning cards for their XP).

    Vyolynce on
    nedhf8b6a4rj.jpgsig.gif
    (Former) Gaming Unplugged columnist and video game reviewer at Snackbar Games
    AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
    FryElvenshae
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Good clarifications, @Vyolynce - I fixed my list above.

    Vyolynce
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