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[Gloomhaven] A small, quick party game

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    I did crack open Music Note and look through it. I am way into this. We're going to be Note, Lightning, Triforce, and Angry Face.

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    They way Music Note has been designed, it makes me think that they thought nobody would play it, because Note is very over-tuned.

    Very mild spoilers
    It probably has the best combat modifier deck once you've gotten a few perks, and some of the other things it can do, lets the rest of your party get away with a bunch of mistakes.

    I've got mine at the cap, and the other people I play with have ramped the difficulty up. I think it'll come as a shock if / when my Notes retired.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited December 2021
    Yeah, I'll be starting at level 7. My group is going to love me and/or get very sloppy. We've recently played/retired Tentacles/Eclipse/Circles though so we're well aware of how valuable curses are.

    captaink on
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Any character that doesn't tend to make very many attacks usually has a completely bonkers modifier deck, which helps you not feel bad when you actually do make attacks. Also helps those characters not be garbage in two-character parties.

    Music Note does some things very well, but I don't think it's overpowered or anything. One note (ha ha) I have about it is the item from the solo quest feels almost mandatory, which is weird when some characters are ambivalent to their item and some characters have much better alternatives to their items in the shop.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Yeah the modifier deck is nuts. And starting with 8 perks means I already got all the negative cards out, I think. The +4's are really tempting but I'm going for the bad statuses first.

    I did not get Spellweaver's item, good but too heavy of a drawback. Eclipse's item is just as good, but no drawback, it's amazing for that class. Notes' item doesn't seem quite as good as Eclipse, but it definitely looks nice and better than anything else I can use in that slot.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Where are people on the gloomhaven video game these days? I am debating whether it would be a fun way to connect with my board game crew that I'm not playing with right now.

    What is this I don't even.
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    DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    My wife and I have been playing Digital for about a year now, around 300ish hours so far? They just did the full release and the official campaign is out which 100% mirrors the boardgame. We really enjoy it, its all the fun of the physical game without the hour of setup/teardown and there's zero risk of a cat jumping up on the board.

    Characters all play the same, one or two cards had to be adjusted but those adjustments were made by Issac and the dev team. They're working now on putting in a few new options, like the updated Advantage/Disadvantage rules that will be published with Frosthaven.

    Long story short, if you already love the game I'd say give it a shot. Not sure on the multiplayer because we both just play on one computer, but word is its pretty good these days and that most of the bugs were caught and squished during the beta/early access.

    PSN: decatus90
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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    Multiplayer is really good and supports swapping players if you have more than 4 people involved; the host assigns characters to players when they join, and you can't start a mission into they all agree.

    The host handles decisions for the events and in-mission decisions, though, which can be kind of weird if your character isn't even involved in what's going on.

    The ui is pretty good and has a very nice LOS checker, though when it fails it's really annoying; you can't reset a turn if you accidentally misclick your move card and can only reset the whole round, which involves kicking everyone out and restarting the multiplayer sequence.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
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    DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    The only thing that trips me up is that the Guildmaster game mode made it super easy to unlock classes, and so now I'm REALLY wanting to play a Music-Note again but we havent been lucky enough to get that personal quest in the normal campaign.

    My wife is thrilled though, we just unlocked Ecliplse for her and that was her favorite character. Im currently playing Cthulhu (hella fun) and Saw (not my thing, but effective) while shes playing Scoundrel and Eclipse. We're tearing through monsters but if we're not careful we can get mobbed and shanked really quick.

    PSN: decatus90
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    First game as Music Note last night. It seems good, but I feel like
    I brought too many songs. But then looking at what I've got for other top actions, I don't like them much either. I've got my 3 small triangle AoEs of Disarm/Curse/Stun, and then songs. I guess I start/change songs once per rest cycle? The scenario was a little off in that it had a bunch of archers with Pierce 2, so my shield song/actions were largely useless.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    With a hand size of 9, you're only going to play at most four of your top actions per cycle, so it's fine if you have like three top actions you're excited about and then some situational ones.

    For Music Note specifically, I like using the class specific item to set up for very spicy bottom actions.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    It's important to note that you can choose to ditch an in effect card back to your discard at any time. So if you have an in effect status card and want to add +1 card to your rest shuffle you can ditch it to exhaust one turn later.

    What is this I don't even.
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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Items that might help for Notes; but obviously this depends on what you got unlocked in the shop
    comfortable shoes which turns normal movement 2 into movement 3

    And

    Ring of Haste which lets you play a card and do it’s bottom action.

    Could make a case for summons? They’ll be using your excellent modifier deck


    Regarding songs they all benefit from being very quick actions so can be worth taking for that.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Played Music Note again last night, scenario 27 (Triangles, Angry Face, Lightning):
    Since it was a survive/protect scenario, it felt totally different. Defensive Ditty for +1 Shield was actually useful too, since the scenario wasn't 50% elite Archers. Still, I was sweating. I put up my "play 2 songs" loss immediately, since it was a max 10 round scenario. But once you do that and have 2 songs playing, your hand size gets real small real fast. Definitely would not want to do that normally. Anyways, I pretty much cycled my AoE Stun and Aoe Disarm actions on top. That in itself did major work on this scenario. I didn't really get that many curses out because I could only ever hit 1 person with my bottom action curse attack. One thing I'm noticing as I go through more songs is my other players have more trouble tracking what effects are up on themselves.

    RE: items, I have all the shop ones. My pockets are already full: Major Stamina, Minor Healing, Major Mana, Ring of Haste. Then the Comfortable Shoes. I'm going to get my solo item when I have a chance to sit and play through it. Then I'm getting a Cloak of Pockets and some more pocket items. Potentially Minor Stamina/Minor Mana, at least to start. I used my enhancement money to add 1 hex to my AOE disarm and 1 move to my move 2-Strengthen adjacent allies bottom. My retirement goal is 200 gold. I'd like to add a hex to my AOE stun but that's like 191 gold, so I might overshoot and retire if I save up. I guess if nothing else I can do it as I retire, to set the character up for me again/someone else.

    My PQ unlock is already unlocked (Three Spears) and I don't want to play it particularly. We only lack Saw at this point, and someone else has that PQ. No one has retired Cragheart or even played Mindthief, so I should probably do one of those to get their road/city cards in the deck. Tempted by Cthulu though, it looked really fun. Or to pull out one of the JOTL characters I didn't play, probably Void Warden.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Mana potion seems like a waste of a slot, especially in that party where nobody uses elements much at all.

    I like the bottom half of Melody and Harmony, or honestly just the other level 5 card. As you say, a loss card and then having two songs active is a lot of cards not getting cycled, or you have to drop songs every time you rest and then replay two of them? Bleh.

    The most hilarious enhancement for Note imo is adding a curse to Disorienting Dirge. The class item really helps you to set up good dirges.

    I think by rules as written/designer intent, if you go over the 200 gold, you can spend back below it and not be forced into retirement if you choose. That said, if you're already at Prosperity 7+ you don't lose much by retiring and immediately starting a new character of the same class, if you feel like it.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    The mana potion is for Triangles.

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    DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    Yeah, I ran Music Notes with Major and Minor Mana potions to help set up my wife's Eclipse. First major purchases for myself were extra hexes on the two Top action CC cards, because I could use them to make most rooms 80 to 100% safe for a round while other characters got things set up.

    PSN: decatus90
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I couldn't figure it out: how do you ditch an active effect card to discard in the Vidya game.

    What is this I don't even.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I couldn't figure it out: how do you ditch an active effect card to discard in the Vidya game.

    Don't you just click on it on the left when you're deciding that person's cards? It's on the top iirc

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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    DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    When the card is in play there will be a symbol on the characters portrait at the top of your screen. Click on that symbol and it will ask if you want to cancel the active effect.

    PSN: decatus90
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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    My digital team finally lost our first battle. 15 scenarios in, and we just couldn't keep up.

    Spoiler for the name of a locked class:
    lo2a5c07mpom.png

    GNU Terry Pratchett
    PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    A really cool fan project is almost done and is available for pre-order (at cost, no profit to the creators.) A TTS version is also going to be available shortly.

    https://www.thecrimsonscales.com/

    The quality is as high or higher than the base game in many ways and I'm really looking forward to it.

    The deal with the pre-orders is while the paper components are going to be available from online print shops, the initial round of orders via one online print shop has the opportunity for a bulk discount if enough people order it. No money is going to the creator in order to stay within the bounds of non-commercial use for all of the various elements and assets.

    The initial print order has been printed and is shortly being sent from the factory to the fulfillment center. There's some pictures and videos of the package.

    There's also likely going to be a second printing (see same link for details), so if you missed out the first time this would be another chance to get the physical product.

    The whole thing is available on Table Top Simulator as well, so you can check it all out for free. Print files so you can print your own and .stl files for 3D printers are also available.

    I've dug through the whole thing, and it is pretty much "more Gloomhaven", though the classes tend to be more balanced than the GH classes.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited April 2022
    I fell off of posting my after action reports, sadly. I can report: We beat the game. Last week we unlocked our final locked class (Saw) and retired another character. I'd like to retire Mindthief next week, though it's been fun. Having played Eclipse though, Eclipse was more fun.

    Anyways, looking for ideas for a new character. We're going to have a new Sun, a new Saw, and our 4th player apparently wants to play Angry Face forever. Saw and Sun are going to play to make Sun into a heavy Shield tank, or at least that's the plan. They'll both be melee, the Angry face is ranged.

    Wondering what I should play. We have everything unlocked. We're at Prosperity 8 so can start at a high level with enough gold for at least 1 key enhancement/item and lots of perks.
    Previously played (but not against replaying)
    Spellweaver
    Eclipse
    Music Notes
    Mindthief

    Brute-Definitely outclassed by Sun in the tank department. Could do a purely damage-focused build.
    Tinkerer-No interest, seems like it sucks.
    Spellweaver-I played them for a long time, but this is probably a great group to hang back and throw spells with. No element support from allies but that's not really a big deal for the Spellweaver, and we're pretty good about everyone carrying minor mana potions at least. Also well enhanced.
    Scoundrel-Probably lots of allies for positional hijinks, maybe very good?
    Cragheart-If I go the throwing boulders route, I think I'll have a hard time not hitting my friends. This will be the only non-retired class so that pulls me to it a little bit.
    Mindthief-No

    I'll spoil the rest so I can talk mechanics but I'll use their pseudonyms.
    Sun-Taken
    Three Spears-When our Three Spears played, it felt like he spent more time fiddling around with items and recoveries than doing stuff, although he was also de facto tank as well. Honestly not sure how he would play with this group.
    Circles-A mess of summons seems likely to get in the way of our 2 melees.
    Eclipse-Loved running around murdering dudes. Works with anyone.
    Cthulu-Seems ideal? Throwing out a bunch of poison and curse seems like excellent support for this group.
    Lightning-This one just retired, but boy it looked fun. Healing and tank friends could let it go balls to the wall with all the self harm and big attacks.
    Music Note-I was so good at locking down enemies with this class that I think my tank and healer would feel underappreciated.
    Angry Face-Taken
    Saw-Taken
    Triangles-This was just retired too. Was pretty effective but complicated for how effective it was.
    Two-Minis-This class looked really fun. I think it can work in almost any party comp.

    I'm leaning Cthulu at the moment but I'd be curious to hear what people think would be fun/good. One thing that will suck about Cthulu is initiative. I've played Eclipse/Notes/Mindthief all in a row and got used to having lots of stupid-fast initiatives, and I remember Cthulu's initiatives sucked.

    captaink on
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Depends how you define tank, but the way I usually think about tanking in games, there aren't any tank classes in Gloomhaven, there are just classes that have to get in melee range and have tools to not immediately die when they do (and classes that don't have those tools, like Scoundrel haha). Like sure, having a flat Shield 2 plus your armor or whatever seems good, but if your plan is to run into a room and let five enemies beat on you, you're still going to go down pretty fast.

    Speaking of Scoundrel, I played mine as a ranged AOE specialist and it was pretty fun. I learned quickly that my party was not going to make it feasible for me to use the "stab enemies that are next to your friends" suite, so I built away from that spec.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I dunno, using Brute out of the starter classes, he absolutely builds to the core identity of "I sit closer to stuff and shield/retaliate" which I think quite solidly suits the concept of tank.

    What is this I don't even.
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Also, cthulhu was probably my hands down favorite class to play.

    What is this I don't even.
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I got this on steam and the first mission I was clearly moving too slowly and collecting all the gold drops and by the third (last room) I only had two cards left and exhausted.

    So clearly need to be more aggressive moving room to room cause you only have so many times to get your discard pile back?

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I got this on steam and the first mission I was clearly moving too slowly and collecting all the gold drops and by the third (last room) I only had two cards left and exhausted.

    So clearly need to be more aggressive moving room to room cause you only have so many times to get your discard pile back?

    I think everyone goes through a learning curve of "can't get to the end of the scenario" -> "can't afford any time to get loot" -> "can get most/all of the loot and still have plenty of turns left over"

    Part of that is also that brand new characters suck; getting a few level ups and more/better gear scales you up a lot faster than enemies scale up. Scenario 1 and 2 is the weakest you will ever be relative to the opposition.

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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Okay so is the first scenario impossible? How are you supposed to do this with only two characters?

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Haven't played the steam version, but I understand it's basically the same as the physical game.

    My number one tip is, when it's your character's turn to act, count up how many attacks the enemies are about to make, and make sure that when your turn is over, that number has gone down, not up.

    That is, if a swarm of melee enemies can't reach anyone to attack this turn, don't run someone up close where they will be able to attack! Conversely, if they can already reach someone, there's no harm in running another character in there if it gets you a better attack.

    Put another way, always try to be minimizing the number of enemy attacks.

    What characters are you running?

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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    Haven't played the steam version, but I understand it's basically the same as the physical game.

    My number one tip is, when it's your character's turn to act, count up how many attacks the enemies are about to make, and make sure that when your turn is over, that number has gone down, not up.

    That is, if a swarm of melee enemies can't reach anyone to attack this turn, don't run someone up close where they will be able to attack! Conversely, if they can already reach someone, there's no harm in running another character in there if it gets you a better attack.

    Put another way, always try to be minimizing the number of enemy attacks.

    What characters are you running?

    I started Brute and Scoundrel. The Brute can usually stun the elite enemy and the scoundrel can more or less kill one enemy a turn, but the final room has four enemies and by then you're just out of cards.

    Three tries to win the initial scenario on Normal difficulty and it's not even close. Just a lame as hell way to sell you on the game?

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    Fry wrote: »
    Haven't played the steam version, but I understand it's basically the same as the physical game.

    My number one tip is, when it's your character's turn to act, count up how many attacks the enemies are about to make, and make sure that when your turn is over, that number has gone down, not up.

    That is, if a swarm of melee enemies can't reach anyone to attack this turn, don't run someone up close where they will be able to attack! Conversely, if they can already reach someone, there's no harm in running another character in there if it gets you a better attack.

    Put another way, always try to be minimizing the number of enemy attacks.

    What characters are you running?

    I started Brute and Scoundrel. The Brute can usually stun the elite enemy and the scoundrel can more or less kill one enemy a turn, but the final room has four enemies and by then you're just out of cards.

    Three tries to win the initial scenario on Normal difficulty and it's not even close. Just a lame as hell way to sell you on the game?

    Gloomhaven is a rough intro for a single person yeah. It's meant to be experienced as a group that knows they're getting into a big game. The Steam game is just the same game, mechanically, so the onboard ramp wasn't really designed for this.

    Some hints that may help (I'm not great at the game but I think I've improved since the beginning!).

    If you are having to burn cards to reduce damage, that's really bad and you absolutely need to minimize that. Typically, as others said, by just reducing how much you can get hit each turn.

    Postpone resting as long as you can, since that's what actually thins your deck.

    Don't forget your items! And you keep the progress you made even if you lose, so you should have more stuff now. Do you have enough good for another item or such yet? And if it's cards that's a problem, trade out your Brute's health potion for a stamina one off you can afford it? Are you close to a first level up yet (I forget the pace of those)? That's always a big bump.

    kime on
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    How many cards are you losing to prevent hits? How many cards are you losing for "Lost" actions? Hopefully not many, especially on the Scoundrel, or you're gonna run out of cards.

    Generally I try not to use more than one "lose" card per room, or fewer if you can help it.

    For 2p Scenario 1 in particular, I think if you start in the back corners of the room, the Elite can't hit you on the first turn (unless he gets a lucky draw). So you could try starting in those back corners, take a slow (high number) initiative, and wait him out. Use your first turn to hopefully eliminate one of the regulars, then on the second round take fast initiatives and either defeat the other regular or disable the Elite.

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    The first scenario in Gloomhaven is also tuned a little tough, even on normal, in my opinion.

    I think it’s that way to prevent you from developing bad habits and to maybe start you developing good ones. I’ve generally had success with it across a couple of groups, but we’ve often had to play it through twice.

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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Those are great tips, thank you all. I don't burn cards for damage until absolutely have to and I think I figured out the real resource here is cards, not health. Also that this game isn't like, dungeon crawling, as much as a puzzle game and the goal is to prevent damage and enemy actions.

    Knowing that you keep your progress even if you get exhausted is great.

    I think I'll put it on the easiest difficulty for a little bit. I have the actual game, too, but never have been able to keep a group interested long enough to commit to it.

    Those little dungeon goals, like kill an enemy with four more damage than you needed or only long rest. Are those worth setting up?

    EDIT: Failed to competion, but used the invisibility smoke bomb for my scoundrel to grab everything before getting killed. Upon restarting on the world map the game let me create more Mercenaries, so now I can just bring four party members into the first quest, which I think is going to make everything a lot easier.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    Cobalt60Cobalt60 regular Registered User regular
    The game scales the number of enemies you'll face based on the number of players. You're going to face 2 elites and 4 regulars in the first room with 4 players.

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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Cobalt60 wrote: »
    The game scales the number of enemies you'll face based on the number of players. You're going to face 2 elites and 4 regulars in the first room with 4 players.

    Yup

    Just came to post this.

    That didn't work out the way I wanted.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Do the goals if you can manage without completely throwing. Personally my priority is win scenario, get chests, get mission goals, get coins, get xp. You have a leg up in that you're controlling all the characters, so at least you know that Bob needs to open a door or whatever. Playing with other people, those goals are hidden information :X

    Assuming the Steam version lets you change difficulty at any time, I'd say since you've already had 3+ tries on scenario one, don't feel bad about turning the difficulty down for the moment just to get past it. I agree with the other comment that scenario 1 and especially scenario 2 are over tuned. After you get through those two, the game opens up a little and becomes a bit easier.

    I've heard someone describe Gloomhaven as being a "euro" game in disguise. I'm not familiar enough with euros to know how good that analogy is, but yeah, it's definitely not a dungeon crawl.

    Fry on
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    Do the goals if you can manage without completely throwing. Personally my priority is win scenario, get chests, get mission goals, get coins, get xp. You have a leg up in that you're controlling all the characters, so at least you know that Bob needs to open a door or whatever. Playing with other people, those goals are hidden information :X

    Assuming the Steam version lets you change difficulty at any time, I'd say since you've already had 3+ tries on scenario one, don't feel bad about turning the difficulty down for the moment just to get past it. I agree with the other comment that scenario 1 and especially scenario 2 are over tuned. After you get through those two, the game opens up a little and becomes a bit easier.

    I've heard someone describe Gloomhaven as being a "euro" game in disguise. I'm not familiar enough with euros to know how good that analogy is, but yeah, it's definitely not a dungeon crawl.

    Having the goals be hidden information is one of the weirdest things in the game that my group eventually abandoned. There just aren't that many goals, so when someone starts acting strange everyone knows what's up anyways. I get the idea, but the execution was very lacking in the end. There needed to be way more cards ultimately.

    The first two scenarios are straight up some of the hardest in the game as well on my estimation. Especially scenario 2. It becomes way easier after that. We went from barely managing on 2 after a few attempts to maybe 3 missions later bumping up the difficulty to give the illusion of challenge. Even still we kept winning, but at least we had to try.

    Ultimately I think seeing it as a game of card management is the key. You want to do as little losing cards as possible. Even losing a single card to damage is a huge deal. HPs are basically how much buffer you have to screw up. Also worth noting there is all of 1 class I have seen in the game that can tank really, and it is an unlocked class. Even then only if you build it right. Everyone else hates taking hits to varying degrees. Large HPs are the ones that tolerate, but still don't want to invite taking damage.

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    The "keep everything hidden from your team-mates" rules are the dumbest. We abandoned that almost immediately. What goals we have, which cards we will be using, our initiative order, etc.… all that is shared information. It's a co-op game, for Pete's sake.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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