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[Gloomhaven] A small, quick party game

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Opinions:

    I’ve played most of Gloomhaven with 3 others.

    We keep our actions and initiatives as closed / secret information because when we played it as open, the turns just seemed to take an age as you’d be pointing to which hex you wanted to do your action and who should go quicker to set things up for others.

    I don’t think you need to say more than “I’m going quick or slow”

    PSN Fleety2009
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited July 2022
    All right. Every time you choose the 'good' option in any situation you get screwed, right?

    Saved a dog? Three -1 modifiers to your Blessings Deck.
    Help some guys with their luggage? Everyone discards 2 cards.

    What the hell, game?

    EDIT: On the easiest setting I barely beat the first scenario with 4 person party. My Scoundrel was the last person up, had to use the Stamina Potion on the last round to reactivate her Throwing Daggers to kill the last archer. So I guess I'll be playing this on easiest, because it was still really hard.

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    All right. Every time you choose the 'good' option in any situation you get screwed, right?

    Saved a dog? Three -1 modifiers to your Blessings Deck.
    Help some guys with their luggage? Everyone discards 2 cards.

    What the hell, game?

    Does typically boost your rep, though, which pays off in the long run.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    edited October 2022
    City events are always good or "no effect"

    Road events are always bad or rarely "no effect"

    Edit: that was my recollection from playing my first campaign. Having played through a good chunk of a second campaign, there have been plenty of bad city events. Just lucky the first time, I guess.

    Fry on
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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    City events are always good or "no effect"

    Road events are always bad or rarely "no effect"

    I know that's not true. I've had city events that took our money for absolutely no gain, and road events that gave us good rewards.

    Something that comes up in road/city events that the digital game doesn't mention is that your group composition or status CAN affect the outcome of the event. If the issue is something technological, having the Tinkerer around can give you a better result. Maybe something happens if you're popular that wouldn't happen if you have a negative Reputation. The physical cards tell you what the triggers are for those special outcomes, but in the digital game you have no way of knowing if your outcome is the result of something beyond the basic "A or B" choice.

    One of the issues with the hidden information is that the game is trying to have its cake and eat it, too: there's the crunchy card management and character positioning, and then for fluff they say "You're all individual mercenaries, not a real team." That means no sharing money or items, retiring characters leave the moment they meet their personal goals in town, and the hoarding of information. In my game the info doesn't become a problem, because we all get along and when we say things like "Maybe I just want to be over by the door instead of hitting that guy" everybody knows what that means.

    (Hint for the video game: you can all see each other's available cards, so when someone says "I'm going as fast as I can" you can click on their portrait and see what their options are!)

    GNU Terry Pratchett
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    City events are generally good, road events are generally bad. There are exceptions. There's no real rhyme or reason to being good/evil leading to positive or negative outcomes.

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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited July 2022
    Beginning to realize the importance of long rest when you can.

    Also don't split the party.

    Okay, when you open a door you need to have movement to get the back fuck out of the way cause all those enemies you just activated are going on this turn.

    Also, Stamina Potions. Who knew?

    MegaMan001 on
    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    All right I very much want to love this game, but it's just too much. If it has an in/out of combat mode that would be great, but clearing a room then using card after card to just...walk to the next room is boring and frustrating.

    Especially since you have to take two cards. You end up wasting a card every turn unless you can get opposite sides of a card both for moving.

    If I just got to free move and then back into card abilities when fighting, that would be nice.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    All right I very much want to love this game, but it's just too much. If it has an in/out of combat mode that would be great, but clearing a room then using card after card to just...walk to the next room is boring and frustrating.

    Especially since you have to take two cards. You end up wasting a card every turn unless you can get opposite sides of a card both for moving.

    If I just got to free move and then back into card abilities when fighting, that would be nice.

    Yeah you want to try to position things so that you're finishing the fight by the next place you want to go

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    Unless everyone in my group is coordinating a long rest at the same time, we generally want someone kicking the door to the next room open while we're finishing off the last enemies in your current one.

    That said, we don't win every mission.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    There are some top actions that are good to do while moving to the next room. Scoundrel has a self heal, for instance, that's miserable to do while staring down a room full of enemies. Some characters have long duration self buffs as top actions, same applies there.

    That said, if you're not enjoying the game, that's real. It's very much not a game for everybody.

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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I want to love it, though. It ticked so many boxes of games I love. Probably should just sell my physical copy

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I want to love it, though. It ticked so many boxes of games I love. Probably should just sell my physical copy

    It may play out differently if you are playing multiplayer, too.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I want to love it, though. It ticked so many boxes of games I love. Probably should just sell my physical copy

    It may play out differently if you are playing multiplayer, too.

    You're only playing by yourself, MegaMan? I don't fault you for finding it really hard to get into. Half of my learning curve was just admitting that stuff I couldn't control was going to happen when it wasn't my turn and then understanding why.

    Heck, if you're interested I'd be willing to jump in your game for a mission or two next week to help you figure mechanics out.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
    PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
    Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
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    MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Bursar wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I want to love it, though. It ticked so many boxes of games I love. Probably should just sell my physical copy

    It may play out differently if you are playing multiplayer, too.

    You're only playing by yourself, MegaMan? I don't fault you for finding it really hard to get into. Half of my learning curve was just admitting that stuff I couldn't control was going to happen when it wasn't my turn and then understanding why.

    Heck, if you're interested I'd be willing to jump in your game for a mission or two next week to help you figure mechanics out.

    I appreciate that, but I think I'm just not clicking with this and that's okay, but disappointing.

    I think it's the combination of using cards to move out of combat and then the blessing decks that ruin an attack I struggled to setup is just one variable too much.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    The game definitely feels a lot better once you've progressed a character enough that you've removed most of the garbage from their modifier decks. It feels really bad when you manage to set up the Brute's attack three targets for 2 each and draw -2, -1, miss.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    The boardgame (not sure about digital) has a "low variance" variant rule where Crit and Miss are +2 and -2 respectively. Could take some of the sting out.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    The boardgame (not sure about digital) has a "low variance" variant rule where Crit and Miss are +2 and -2 respectively. Could take some of the sting out.

    Multi has it as an option.

    I think you're only going to like gloomhaven if you completely come to terms with it as a puzzle game with a dungeon theme and release dungeon crawler expectations. Or you have a group that you're getting a lot of the social fun from.

    What is this I don't even.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    The bump in this thread got me back into my campaign on Steam here, where I very quickly retired two characters on like, my next run :D

    Unlocked Music Notes and Angry Face.

    I'm loving Music Notes. If I ever play this with other people again I think I wanna just cheat and start with Notes, they're so much fun :D

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Almost every "whoops, I think we broke the game" story I've seen involves Notes somehow.

    QPPHj1J.jpg
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Notes is my favorite. Played it in a 4-player party, and was a lockdown/denial machine to the enemies, which let my allies go nuts with damage.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Notes is a great class for someone else to play.

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    I suspect that because Notes is (mild spoiler about class)
    a support class

    which is typically the least popular class when it comes to parties, then it got over-tuned to the monster it is.

    Some incredible CC and support, but its combat deck has to be one of the best in the game once you start adding / taking away cards.

    It certainly counters some scenario conditions, but then some scenarios (usually designed by someone else) have some unfun stupid conditions, so getting to ignore them is more fun. For instance, everything having poisoned attacks or poisoned ranged attacks is deeply unfun.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I never got to go back to cthulhu face and that was maybe my most favorite.

    What is this I don't even.
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    I suspect that because Notes is (mild spoiler about class)
    a support class

    which is typically the least popular class when it comes to parties, then it got over-tuned to the monster it is.

    Some incredible CC and support, but its combat deck has to be one of the best in the game once you start adding / taking away cards.

    It certainly counters some scenario conditions, but then some scenarios (usually designed by someone else) have some unfun stupid conditions, so getting to ignore them is more fun. For instance, everything having poisoned attacks or poisoned ranged attacks is deeply unfun.

    I think it is also a matter of how many people you have. We always played at 4 player which deeply affected how useful some classes were. Music Notes in 2 player would be significantly less effective. Some classes just scale at a different rate so you call it good at some point.

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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    After a month of losing missions (one a week), our group was considering abandoning some characters to get something more tanky into the mix.

    Instead, we cranked the difficulty down a notch this week just to see if it was the missions, the enemies in particular we were facing, or our party roster that was the problem. Luckily, the XP earned in our losses still counts, so new abilities got unlocked.
    es783tlvr2s6.png

    Now I have a tank

    Ho - Ho - Ho

    GNU Terry Pratchett
    PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Unlocking that was the coolest fuckin thing when I played jaws of the lion

    2x39jD4.jpg
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Digital version is free in the epic games store. Loop in some friends.

    What is this I don't even.
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Took the opportunity of free digital Gloomhaven to get back in. Haha, I remembered the first two scenarios being hard, but I think I had underestimated just how hard they were. Even already being familiar with the game system, strategy, what items to buy, what cards are good to bring for a scenario, and knowing the map layout going in, I still nearly got my butt kicked on Normal difficulty. Figuring out all that stuff on top of the not-maximally-intuitive digital interface must be a nightmare.

    Highly recommend anyone starting out to play on Easy, if not easiest difficulty, at least until you get a few missions under your belt.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Haha, this Clockwork Cove scenario is garbage. There are a whole bunch of rooms, separated by doors that are only open while someone is standing on a pressure plate. Twice, I had a golem pull one of my two characters off a pressure plate, closing a door and screwing me up for multiple turns.

    I assume this has to be a guest scenario

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    ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I'm familiar with Jaws of the Lion, so I'm not an absolute Gloomhaven beginner, but when I checked out the Gloomhaven video game with three friends, I have to admit that the difficulty of the first scenario was a large part of what put us off the game, and I could imagine that the same would be true for others. I'm glad that Jaws of the Lion has a better difficulty curve, because starting with this kind of meat grinder is no fun (and strikes me as poor design altogether). And yes, the UI being mediocre at best doesn't help.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    edited October 2022
    The guild master mode in the video game also has a much better onboarding experience.

    In retrospect I'm kind of amazed the game (edit: meaning the original, physical game) became such a hit with how bad the first two scenarios are.

    Fry on
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    ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I suspect that its main audience (at least before it was available for free on the Epic Store) was people who know the boardgame. For them, it's much easier to get into the digital Gloomhaven than for people who first played it in digital format. And for them I'd say it was a cool enough thing to have, especially during the pandemic.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    The guild master mode in the video game also has a much better onboarding experience.

    In retrospect I'm kind of amazed the game became such a hit with how bad the first two scenarios are.

    I think it speaks to how high the unmet demand is for games in this particular niche. Most of the ones that do exist need a DM or an app which brings complications as well. A rough start is comparatively a pretty easy pill to swallow.

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Fry wrote: »
    The guild master mode in the video game also has a much better onboarding experience.

    In retrospect I'm kind of amazed the game became such a hit with how bad the first two scenarios are.

    I think it speaks to how high the unmet demand is for games in this particular niche. Most of the ones that do exist need a DM or an app which brings complications as well. A rough start is comparatively a pretty easy pill to swallow.

    The 2nd scenario can be rough because it's random what the boss does. Sometimes he's jumping all over the place opening doors and spawning ads, and you can't actually hit him. There is certainly an element of luck.

    I remember being the mindtheif (or whatever the little ratman is called), who could maybe take 1-2 hits before having to ditch cards and being frustrated with the class because of how much of a glasscannon (although my dps didn't seem great) I was. It very much reminded me of playing a rogue in WoW when it was pretty deadly to play a melee class (ranged classes seemed to have an easier time).

    I think group composition can have an effect. I've done some scenarios where I found myself thinking "if we didn't have X, and instead had been using Y, I don't know how we'd have done that scenario".

    I don't remember having an issue with the first scenario (1st time was rogue, tinkerer, mindthief, Cragheart, 2nd time Cragheart, Mindthief, Spellweaver, Brute), but if you didn't have someone who could take a hit, or provide a bit of support in terms of heals, I can easily see why it might lead to a group failing.

    The start of scenarios always seem the hardest / overwhelming bit.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Scenario 2 also has everyone start with three curses, because your attacks and modifier decks aren't bad enough as level one characters, in a scenario where 75% of the boss's turns involve additional beef showing up that you are required to defeat to win the scenario.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    edited October 2022
    Take Back the Trees is such a bad personal quest. It's easy to be locked out of it for a long time, or even forever, and not know it. I suffered through it IRL, now I've suffered through it on PC.

    This time I managed to unlock Angry Face through a scenario reward on my way towards finishing the PQ, so I didn't even get much reward for finishing it :X

    Fry on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    You get a random item design and a random scenario!

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    edited October 2022
    captaink wrote: »
    You get a random item design and a random scenario!

    One of my disappointments with the base game is that many of the random item schematics are garbage, and/or just six variants of the same thing because every element has to have their own. Case in point, I will probably not be buying the Major Cure Potion I unlocked here.

    Fry on
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Holy wow, Tinkerer is bad. I'm not sure what the role of this character is supposed to be, but the advertised role of "healer" is not something you want to be doing, and also Tinkerer is kinda bad at it. My best guess is "has 12 hand size, so you can actually use loss cards" but its loss cards aren't even that good?

    The scenario with the Dark Rider was about 1000x easier IRL, where we could at least try to plan around where the boss was going to show up. On the PC it's a total nightmare because you don't know where it's going to come from, so it's very hard to line up an attack on it.

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