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[Gloomhaven] A small, quick party game

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    ... there is a good chance my buddy's Frosthaven arrives tomorrow. My phone keeps blowing up.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    Holy wow, Tinkerer is bad. I'm not sure what the role of this character is supposed to be, but the advertised role of "healer" is not something you want to be doing, and also Tinkerer is kinda bad at it. My best guess is "has 12 hand size, so you can actually use loss cards" but its loss cards aren't even that good?

    The scenario with the Dark Rider was about 1000x easier IRL, where we could at least try to plan around where the boss was going to show up. On the PC it's a total nightmare because you don't know where it's going to come from, so it's very hard to line up an attack on it.

    Tinkerer is extremely good (for a starting class) because of how versatile it is. In some builds it can actually be a damage monster. But it does require thoughtful play and not just trying to be a heal bot. But yeah you can't just take it at face value as a healer that disarms.

    What is this I don't even.
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Eh, Tinker is pretty weak amongst all the classes. Not a bad beginner class, since it's got a huge hand size and can do a little of everything. Once you're more experienced, it just doesn't seem to have a lot of ooomph. Music Notes, for one example, blows it out of the water as a support class.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    I'm enjoying Music Notes right now in my PC 2-player squad. Ditched a lot of the "normal" support cards in favor of cards to play a "summoner" style, it's been working great. Love that attack modifier deck.

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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    My friend's Music Notes draw deck is ridiculous, and it's compounded by the fact that he nearly never attacks directly.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Music notes is ridiculous though so not sure it’s fair to compare.

    Hits hard when it wants, has the best deck modifiers, great supporting buffs and some incredible crowd control.

    He seems to counter some of the worst scenarios to a degree that makes them not a complete pain in the arse to play.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    edited November 2022
    The "escape from jail" scenario is heinous. It expects you to run away from enemies, which is fine and an interesting change of pace, except that the scenario is full of enemies that can randomly draw "add Immobilize to attacks" as their action. Which is bad if it eats your bigger move cards, and it's catastrophic if it causes someone to get left behind in a room full of enemies.

    It's also an exceptionally bad scenario to have squishy characters, especially if you got a road event that dealt damage to everybody :X I had to go back to town to regroup (which makes no sense especially for this scenario) with my team of Music Notes and Tentacle Face.

    Fry on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Eh, Tinker is pretty weak amongst all the classes. Not a bad beginner class, since it's got a huge hand size and can do a little of everything. Once you're more experienced, it just doesn't seem to have a lot of ooomph. Music Notes, for one example, blows it out of the water as a support class.

    Music Notes literally makes the game a different game. One where no one ever gets hit. Doesn't even compare.

    What is this I don't even.
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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Frosthaven PSA: you can accomplish the lower Drifter mastery in Scenario 0. It is not that hard.

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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Tinkerer is okay from about levels 1-3. At higher levels though, it starts to fall further and further behind due to some issues with its design and poor scaling.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    First game of Frosthaven in the bag.

    New characters: totally rad, A+. Bone shaper is a cool design, summons lots of skellies.

    Character mastery things: neat! Wish they had explained that before I had played a game, but I'll live. Bone shaper has one mastery that looks tough and one that seems utterly impossible with the starting cards, so presumably those will be leaning on higher level cards, which is fine. Hopefully it doesn't require too specific a build, or that will be annoying.

    New Personal Quests: cool! I already have a question about mine though, which is whether scenario conclusion text counts as "outpost phase" or not, ha ha.

    Outpost phase: this is horribly explained, like I don't know how to do any of the listed steps based on the text as presented. Maybe if I had been present for the game unboxing/initial setup?

    For example, we drew an outpost event and didn't know how to resolve it, because we hadn't resolved a road event yet, so we didn't know wtf was going on with the trait requirement. Eventually we figured it out, but we had to go looking through other parts of the book.

    How any of the buildings work, which buildings exist at the start, IDK. Had to go looking for a while to figure out what the starting Morale value was, so I could add the morale that is the reward for the first scenario (answer: the starting Morale *is* the morale reward from the first scenario)

    Potion crafting system looks cool, but I don't know whether we actually have access to it or not. I assume we must, or those rules would be on stickers.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    First game of Frosthaven in the bag.

    New characters: totally rad, A+. Bone shaper is a cool design, summons lots of skellies.

    Character mastery things: neat! Wish they had explained that before I had played a game, but I'll live. Bone shaper has one mastery that looks tough and one that seems utterly impossible with the starting cards, so presumably those will be leaning on higher level cards, which is fine. Hopefully it doesn't require too specific a build, or that will be annoying.

    New Personal Quests: cool! I already have a question about mine though, which is whether scenario conclusion text counts as "outpost phase" or not, ha ha.

    Outpost phase: this is horribly explained, like I don't know how to do any of the listed steps based on the text as presented. Maybe if I had been present for the game unboxing/initial setup?

    For example, we drew an outpost event and didn't know how to resolve it, because we hadn't resolved a road event yet, so we didn't know wtf was going on with the trait requirement. Eventually we figured it out, but we had to go looking through other parts of the book.

    How any of the buildings work, which buildings exist at the start, IDK. Had to go looking for a while to figure out what the starting Morale value was, so I could add the morale that is the reward for the first scenario (answer: the starting Morale *is* the morale reward from the first scenario)

    Potion crafting system looks cool, but I don't know whether we actually have access to it or not. I assume we must, or those rules would be on stickers.

    A bunch of the answers you want are in the "how to set up your Frosthaven" insert page, and nowhere else.

    The outpost phase takes a little while to decrypt, but knowing what's there in the first place helps a lot, obviously.

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    ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    We're about 2/3 into Jaws of the Lion, and I'm impressed by how much scenario variety they squeeze out of the rules and the monster cards. We've just played the
    Hatchet's optional mission, with my Red Guard playing the cheerleader among the audience,
    and I love how it felt entirely different from every other scenario.

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    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Opened our first Frosthaven box.

    Way more neatly-executed than in Gloomhaven.

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    Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    Picked Gloomhaven up on steam a couple of weeks ago and finally got a chance to get into it this weekend.

    God damn. Scraped through the first scenario, and was completely demolished in the second. Not even close.

    It's been a while since I've been absolutely bodied by a game right out of the gate like that. On normal!

    Seems like a good game.

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
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    FryFry Registered User regular
    It's absolutely brutal at the very start. Once you start acquiring ways to mitigate some of the randomness, it gets a lot easier.

    Absolutely no shame in turning down the difficulty for scenarios one and two, just to get past them and on to other scenarios.

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    Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    Good to hear! Was the curse thing in the second scenario random or scripted? Because that was a brutal thing to have to deal with 2nd time ever playing.

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Scripted I believe. Only random parts for the encounters like that are city and road events. There is a lot of room for improvement on how Gloomhaven introduces you to the game.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Certain scenarios have "scenario effects" that will do bad things to you. A fairly common one is adding three curses to each player at the start, which often lines up with "crypt" scenarios, I've noticed.

    IMO it's extremely rude to do that on the first few scenarios, particularly Scenario 2 which is already tough without randomly getting burned when you go for a big play. In later versions of the game (Jaws of the Lion, Frosthaven), it seems like they may have gone away from that for early scenarios.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    Certain scenarios have "scenario effects" that will do bad things to you. A fairly common one is adding three curses to each player at the start, which often lines up with "crypt" scenarios, I've noticed.

    IMO it's extremely rude to do that on the first few scenarios, particularly Scenario 2 which is already tough without randomly getting burned when you go for a big play. In later versions of the game (Jaws of the Lion, Frosthaven), it seems like they may have gone away from that for early scenarios.

    Frosthaven has several "add some -1s" as scenario effects in the early going, but that's a lot less rude than curses.

    With one exception, the Road events have been way less nasty thus far (about 8 rounds in) too.

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    VisskarVisskar Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Fry wrote: »
    Certain scenarios have "scenario effects" that will do bad things to you. A fairly common one is adding three curses to each player at the start, which often lines up with "crypt" scenarios, I've noticed.

    IMO it's extremely rude to do that on the first few scenarios, particularly Scenario 2 which is already tough without randomly getting burned when you go for a big play. In later versions of the game (Jaws of the Lion, Frosthaven), it seems like they may have gone away from that for early scenarios.

    Frosthaven has several "add some -1s" as scenario effects in the early going, but that's a lot less rude than curses.

    With one exception, the Road events have been way less nasty thus far (about 8 rounds in) too.

    Yeah, I've been happily surprised by the positive number of road events I've had through the first summer. Starting into winter, I expect to see more lose/lose road events during the harsher season.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    Finally got a second session in, three months after our first. Adulting :(

    Is there supposed to be a "building deck" already for the first outpost phase after scenario one? I was assured that we did not have such a deck, because we "hadn't built any buildings yet." But are there any starting buildings?

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited March 2023
    There are four starting buildings. Barracks and Craftsman, Alchemist I think, and one that I'm completely forgetting.

    Edit: Workshop is the fourth.

    Hedgethorn on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Opened our first box in Frosthaven. That was fast!

    I chose Blinkblade for Frosthaven because my classes before it were Eclipse, Music Notes, Mindthief and 1-2 games as Scoundrel before we stopped playing. So I just really needed to keep the chain of "little fast stabby guy" unbroken. Blinkblade is the slowest of them TBH, even before Fast/Slow turns. I guess I can't expect everything to measure (ha) up to Music Notes.

    Blinkblade is great though, really stretches me to my limit. One of our other players picked Geminate so between us we've covered the 5/5 complexity classes. Funnily enough, the organization of the Geminate makes no sense to my brain, but Blinkblade is very doable.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Retired Drifter on Saturday, for my next character I'm going with our first of 3 opened boxes so far: Snowflake. Our Blinkblade lapped me to retirement and is now on the Trap character.

    Without getting too deep into spoilers, this is basically going to invert our whole positioning scheme. Should be interesting.

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    SaurfangSaurfang Registered User regular
    Blinkblade is bonkers. In a party of four, I got 16 move off of a single card.

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    LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I too have annoyed our Boneshaper by hoovering up all of her minion movement points.

    We also have a Geminate in the party, and I basically just trust that he knows what he's doing re: ranges and attack hexes, because every time I squint at one of his cards from across the table I just get confused.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I bought frosthaven before I moved countries, and I had a group of friends who would definitely play. Now I have it, but no local friends who would play it. Not sure if just the wife and I playing it two player will feel worth it

    What is this I don't even.
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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    I loved playing jaws two player, though we eventually worked up to each of us playing two characters

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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    My beloved spouse and I have been playing 2 player and enjoying it well enough. Ok we enjoy the dungeon aspects well enough. The city building aspect is a real fucking drag.

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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
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    ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Having watched the Shut Up & Sit Down review of Frosthaven, I find myself hoping for a kind of Frosthaven: Further Adventures of the Jaws of the Lion. The full Frosthaven package intimidates me, to be quite honest, not least because my wife has a somewhat obsessive-compulsive completionist streak, which together with such a gargantuan game scares the hell out of me, whereas a 25-scenario take on Frosthaven sounds much more manageable.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I have the game. I have the upgrades. What I don't have is friends on this continent to play with. :'(

    What is this I don't even.
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Frosthaven Scenario 14:
    I'm not sure how they call this one balanced. On 4p you're spawning 3 elites every turn, starting with ~10, and the herders can easily summon more piranha pigs. Sure you can move around the eels, but they're only 2-3 HP anyways.

    And yet we won because my Blinkblade's reusable invisibility trivialized the actual objective of "stand next to the thing". I feel smart but ripped off.

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Frosthaven Scenario 14:
    I'm not sure how they call this one balanced. On 4p you're spawning 3 elites every turn, starting with ~10, and the herders can easily summon more piranha pigs. Sure you can move around the eels, but they're only 2-3 HP anyways.

    And yet we won because my Blinkblade's reusable invisibility trivialized the actual objective of "stand next to the thing". I feel smart but ripped off.

    We just played this one last week.
    It's definitely a gimmicky scenario, where you're just trying to figure out how to quickly cross the map and then either fool the monster AI to going the wrong way or else just tank hits for seven rounds. My group (drifter, geminate, and snowflake) pulled it off by having snowflake use a jump-8 card to catapult over to the objective on round 2. Geminate pulled a bunch of agro toward the starting side of the map, but got surrounded and already exhausted from damage in round 5, but not before taking out the herder and one of the pigs near the objective. Snowflake exhausted from damage on round 6, but by that time the drifter had managed to also reach the objective and had enough healing and enough cards left to survive through round 8 to win.

    We got lucky with the eels -- they never pulled their jump card, and we timed the deaths/respawns in such a way that none of the eels were by the objective in the end. After we won, all three of us just stared at the table for awhile trying to figure out if we had fun or not. In the end we had 22 monsters on the board. The amount of time and energy spent managing that much monster AI is not particularly enjoyable, even if it was a bit exhilirating in the moment.

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    Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Proud Father House GardenerRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Thirith wrote: »
    Having watched the Shut Up & Sit Down review of Frosthaven, I find myself hoping for a kind of Frosthaven: Further Adventures of the Jaws of the Lion. The full Frosthaven package intimidates me, to be quite honest, not least because my wife has a somewhat obsessive-compulsive completionist streak, which together with such a gargantuan game scares the hell out of me, whereas a 25-scenario take on Frosthaven sounds much more manageable.

    I have the game and have been regularly playing it. There is a STRONG desire in my brain, ok. What if I took the info from the section book, and main book, and put it together in one easy to read packet prior to the game session, spoilers be damned?

    THEN what if I took those and applied some sort of secondary numbering system with a connection to the order of the scenarios?
    That's all to say, there is definitely many things nightmarish about the gargantuan game and the randomized hidden, spoiler free design.

    I have been volunteering to skip playing frosthaven as a player, and just running the scenarios and monsters and map setup because it's so laborious and fiddly, while the sessions go so long in playing it.

    I will say in some ways it's a bit better than gloomhaven, in that map setup is easier, lots of useful information in the scenario keys. But then again there's a lot of tile pieces that will cover those boards, and require a better organizing solution than "throw them in the insert roughly where you think it goes after everyone's brain has turned to mush."

    Virgil_Leads_You on
    VayBJ4e.png
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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Frosthaven Scenario 14:
    I'm not sure how they call this one balanced. On 4p you're spawning 3 elites every turn, starting with ~10, and the herders can easily summon more piranha pigs. Sure you can move around the eels, but they're only 2-3 HP anyways.

    And yet we won because my Blinkblade's reusable invisibility trivialized the actual objective of "stand next to the thing". I feel smart but ripped off.

    Yeah, there was a moment with that one where I went
    "This is miserable but I think we can still win it and I really don't want to start over." I was right, but that's peak-the bad parts of Frosthaven.

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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    If you are looking for more Gloomhaven, I would recommend checking out the Gloomhaven CCUG discord. There's a great supportive community to coming up with custom classes, scenarios and campaigns. They are spoilers free on GH, and exclusive spoilers on Frosthaven (outside of the channels specific to that), but my guess is you could find some few people at least to bounce your ideas off of and might be able to give you a recommended "must play" list.

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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    My online game managed to pull off a minor miracle and achieved a triple retirement, allowing us to all spend a while leveling and gushing over our new character abilities before trying a second mission that night.
    The longest-running character of the group was Music Note, and his personal goal had been to defeat 20 bandits/cultists. Unfortunately, by the time we unlocked it, those enemies stopped showing up among most missions. This character made it to level 9 and then earned at least another 400xp just by doing what he did best, but the player was having a ton of fun with it so nobody minded.

    The second character was Hatchet, and his gial was more involved, requiring replaying a specific mission to get an item and then use it to kill a certain type of enemy. But once we identified what we needed to do, we knew how to look over the stage descriptions for the enemies being targeted. This character also made it to 9 because we hadn't realized that the mission that kicked off his quest needed to be replayed.

    The third character was Spears, and his goal was dead easy: see two other characters complete their personal goals. This guy joined the party at level 6, and didn't even make it to 7 before completing it.

    With that in mind, we found a side mission that featured both enemy types needed. Hatchet went ham with the special weapon, and Spears just kept handing it back to him, letting it get used far more often than would otherwise be possible. Synergy!

    Our new party is Red Guard, Voidwarden, and Circles. It's a bit of an adjustment.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
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