I'm a loud proponent for Destiny 1 being significantly superior to Destiny 2. However, in the interest of positivity, here's a list of things I think D2 does better.
Clambering.
No sprint lock.
Down on the d-pad in menus takes you to the ship/shader/etc page (instead of having to move the pointer to the down button).
Stay in menus through loading screens.
Enemy shields explode for same-element damage.
Public Events + Rally Flags
Map (even if you can't yet view fireteam members on it)
Instant-summon sparrows
(Destiny) Doot Doot, Shoot Brutes for New Boots, Woot Woot for Rad Suits and Phat Loots
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
i mean i'm not claiming D2 has no faults, i've complained as much as anyone
i just don't agree D1 is significantly superior
D2 just primarily lacks the treadmill D1 had so when you aren't compelled to log in and grind out another 75 patrols for a faction rank up you just realize you'd rather be doing other things
Allegedly a voice of reason.
+3
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
i'm also not meaning to shit on either game
i quite enjoy both of them
Allegedly a voice of reason.
+2
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
"[T]hey still haven't made good on their promise to actually communicate."
On the one hand, I think Bungie's communication has improved since the launch of D2. We have a clear roadmap that has been updated a couple times, and we've had multiple weeks in the past couple months where the [email protected] actually had some detailed substance.
The problem is, and what that article makes painfully clear, is that a personal improvement for Bungie (while nice) probably isn't good enough. 6-months-ago-Bungie vs. now-Bungie may look good, but now-Bungie vs. literally any other developer makes Bungie look terrible.
(Destiny) Doot Doot, Shoot Brutes for New Boots, Woot Woot for Rad Suits and Phat Loots
"[T]hey still haven't made good on their promise to actually communicate."
On the one hand, I think Bungie's communication has improved since the launch of D2. We have a clear roadmap that has been updated a couple times, and we've had multiple weeks in the past couple months where the [email protected] actually had some detailed substance.
The problem is, and what that article makes painfully clear, is that a personal improvement for Bungie (while nice) probably isn't good enough. 6-months-ago-Bungie vs. now-Bungie may look good, but now-Bungie vs. literally any other developer makes Bungie look terrible.
It wouldn't even be hard. The problems with D2 are obvious and almost universally acknowledged by everyone except Bungie. They could go a long-ass way by just admitting the issues exist and putting together a team of a half dozen people whose job is to engage the player-base, even if they don't do anything about their rate of fixing things.
Unrelatedly: is there some dark secret to getting a >325 class item? I've been stuck at 334 for...months? because everything is 335 except my warlock bond, which is 329. I get a drop or two of blue and occasional purple ones every time I play but every god damned one of them is 324, blue or purple.
"[T]hey still haven't made good on their promise to actually communicate."
On the one hand, I think Bungie's communication has improved since the launch of D2. We have a clear roadmap that has been updated a couple times, and we've had multiple weeks in the past couple months where the [email protected] actually had some detailed substance.
The problem is, and what that article makes painfully clear, is that a personal improvement for Bungie (while nice) probably isn't good enough. 6-months-ago-Bungie vs. now-Bungie may look good, but now-Bungie vs. literally any other developer makes Bungie look terrible.
It wouldn't even be hard. The problems with D2 are obvious and almost universally acknowledged by everyone except Bungie. They could go a long-ass way by just admitting the issues exist and putting together a team of a half dozen people whose job is to engage the player-base, even if they don't do anything about their rate of fixing things.
Unrelatedly: is there some dark secret to getting a >325 class item? I've been stuck at 334 for...months? because everything is 335 except my warlock bond, which is 329. I get a drop or two of blue and occasional purple ones every time I play but every god damned one of them is 324, blue or purple.
Literally think it is just waiting for a powerful drop to be a class item. So Flashpoint/Clan Xp/Strikes/Call to Glory and the Nightfall/Crucible clan rewards.
Alternatively Eater of Worlds actually has smart loot so you could probably guarantee hitting 335 in three or four weeks since it'll drop a raid class item in that time frame.
I saw that, and my reaction was more cynical. I think this is basically a nice summary of the front page of the Destiny reddit less than 24 hours ago. I mostly associate this with Forbes bloggers, who've been studiously repackaging whatever the reddit is mad about back to them, and then it shows up on the reddit to all the upvotes as confirmation that everyone is right.
I've rarely seen the pandering be this blatant, though.
Fortnite first, one of the leading examples of how to communicate with your fanbase in 2018. Back in February, before the game was ready to absolutely explode on Twitch (but still had more concurrent players than Destiny 2 with 3.4 million)
Let's put me in the "raises his eyebrows" column regarding what's implied here that Fortnite had more players back in the ancient time of February because of better developer communications. Really, he couldn't think of any of the other reasons Fortnite has more players?
I saw that, and my reaction was more cynical. I think this is basically a nice summary of the front page of the Destiny reddit less than 24 hours ago. I mostly associate this with Forbes bloggers, who've been studiously repackaging whatever the reddit is mad about back to them, and then it shows up on the reddit to all the upvotes as confirmation that everyone is right.
I've rarely seen the pandering be this blatant, though.
Or, it’s an pretty on the spot analysis of the problems with the game.
I think it's totally fair to say that Bungie (and Destiny) evolved from the old console way of doing things. Slower releases with larger overhauls that are packaged with DLC updates, or not at all. Console moved slower in the previous generations, and even now moves slow with certification processes, and an audience accustomed to infrequent updates and less bugs.
The PC audience is more familiar with a more rapid iteration model. PC games have more frequent patches. PC games had more thriving communities in boards and now Reddit. PC games had community management rather than just PR. And PC games had public test realms and the like where bugs like Prometheus Lens could have been found before launch.
The Console developers are struggling to catch up to how PC developers do business. Epic/Fortnite was used to that world, and I sincerely think Bungie wasn't. Bungie came to the MMO space, to the community-driven game space, and wasn't prepared. And the explosion of Reddit and Twitch and the like in the past few years just buries them even further at a snails pace of response.
There is legitimate reason to say that their inability to quickly respond to players, whether even just in a dev update or with actual patches or test servers, diminishes customer trust when other competitors do those things.
I saw that, and my reaction was more cynical. I think this is basically a nice summary of the front page of the Destiny reddit less than 24 hours ago. I mostly associate this with Forbes bloggers, who've been studiously repackaging whatever the reddit is mad about back to them, and then it shows up on the reddit to all the upvotes as confirmation that everyone is right.
I've rarely seen the pandering be this blatant, though.
Or, it’s an pretty on the spot analysis of the problems with the game.
Edit: and the developer.
I would argue that it's a bit of both... though it's strongly leaning toward the pandering and echo-validation.
Also, conversations that compare Digital Extreme's communication to Bungie's also tend to ignore the fact that Warframe is a free to play game, and it lives entirely off the relationship that it has with its players (including a design council)... it's been doing the devstream for years too. Kind of hard to take a writer serious if they ignore the fundamental reason why a thing is a certain way. DE also owns and published the game... and surprisingly they have had little to no interference from the Chinese food company that owns them now.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I think it's totally fair to say that Bungie (and Destiny) evolved from the old console way of doing things. Slower releases with larger overhauls that are packaged with DLC updates, or not at all. Console moved slower in the previous generations, and even now moves slow with certification processes, and an audience accustomed to infrequent updates and less bugs.
The PC audience is more familiar with a more rapid iteration model. PC games have more frequent patches. PC games had more thriving communities in boards and now Reddit. PC games had community management rather than just PR. And PC games had public test realms and the like where bugs like Prometheus Lens could have been found before launch.
The Console developers are struggling to catch up to how PC developers do business. Epic/Fortnite was used to that world, and I sincerely think Bungie wasn't. Bungie came to the MMO space, to the community-driven game space, and wasn't prepared. And the explosion of Reddit and Twitch and the like in the past few years just buries them even further at a snails pace of response.
There is legitimate reason to say that their inability to quickly respond to players, whether even just in a dev update or with actual patches or test servers, diminishes customer trust when other competitors do those things.
Isn't D2 behind D1's patches and support? Like their own previous entry had better support by this point.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I think it's totally fair to say that Bungie (and Destiny) evolved from the old console way of doing things. Slower releases with larger overhauls that are packaged with DLC updates, or not at all. Console moved slower in the previous generations, and even now moves slow with certification processes, and an audience accustomed to infrequent updates and less bugs.
The PC audience is more familiar with a more rapid iteration model. PC games have more frequent patches. PC games had more thriving communities in boards and now Reddit. PC games had community management rather than just PR. And PC games had public test realms and the like where bugs like Prometheus Lens could have been found before launch.
The Console developers are struggling to catch up to how PC developers do business. Epic/Fortnite was used to that world, and I sincerely think Bungie wasn't. Bungie came to the MMO space, to the community-driven game space, and wasn't prepared. And the explosion of Reddit and Twitch and the like in the past few years just buries them even further at a snails pace of response.
There is legitimate reason to say that their inability to quickly respond to players, whether even just in a dev update or with actual patches or test servers, diminishes customer trust when other competitors do those things.
Isn't D2 behind D1's patches and support? Like their own previous entry had better support by this point.
Since they both came out at about the same time in September, you could just start from the first patch Destiny 1 got to the April 2015 updates (or reverse chronologically) and just kinda look back through the history of its changes and see what kind of support Destiny 1 had that you wouldn't get in Destiny 2.
Bungie has yet to even address it's own statements that were raised during Beta (how do we make your tenth dupe exciting?)... they've failed to follow up on touted balance patches (we've had two?)... and they're still looking to re-add features from D1, some of which is slated for 6 months+ after the release of D2 conservatively.
To say that they operate on too slow a pace is understating things.
Also, conversations that compare Digital Extreme's communication to Bungie's also tend to ignore the fact that Warframe is a free to play game, and it lives entirely off the relationship that it has with its players (including a design council)... it's been doing the devstream for years too. Kind of hard to take a writer serious if they ignore the fundamental reason why a thing is a certain way. DE also owns and published the game... and surprisingly they have had little to no interference from the Chinese food company that owns them now.
Regardless of your revenue model, having a solid foundation of playerbase communication and feedback should be a standard in todays marketplace. Things are too competitive to be otherwise.
Make the first item you get the "stock" build that unlocks it in a collection (like exotics) so you can draw that one whenever you want (factory Antiope for example, with the perks it has now). 2nd Antiope forward has random perks.
As soon as you've unlocked it you can draw the same very good antiope that everyone else has, but further antiopes have different perks and some may be worse and some may be better, but they'll all be more interesting than a second identical antiope.
Make the first item you get the "stock" build that unlocks it in a collection (like exotics) so you can draw that one whenever you want (factory Antiope for example, with the perks it has now). 2nd Antiope forward has random perks.
As soon as you've unlocked it you can draw the same very good antiope that everyone else has, but further antiopes have different perks and some may be worse and some may be better, but they'll all be more interesting than a second identical antiope.
This removes the entire good side of fixed rolls. If they were gonna do something like this they should just axe the entire fixed perk system and go back to d1.
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
edited March 2018
This runs straight back into the original problem random rolls, it makes 99% of them disappointing, makes the game much more difficult to balance, and simply means that the guns with the best stats dominate the meta (as opposed to now where there are guns with bad stats but great perk combos and vice versatility that are competitive within the meta, and then there's darkest before...), increases hoarding behaviour, removes the benefit of a common point of reference when talking about guns
Random rolls are a solution that simply creates more problems for a dubious benefit - it provides incentive to play more, but more "excitement"? More moment to moment enjoyment or fulfilment? I highly doubt that. But it is an empirical question and one that I doubt is easily answered simply by intuition and just so stories
Make the first item you get the "stock" build that unlocks it in a collection (like exotics) so you can draw that one whenever you want (factory Antiope for example, with the perks it has now). 2nd Antiope forward has random perks.
As soon as you've unlocked it you can draw the same very good antiope that everyone else has, but further antiopes have different perks and some may be worse and some may be better, but they'll all be more interesting than a second identical antiope.
This removes the entire good side of fixed rolls. If they were gonna do something like this they should just axe the entire fixed perk system and go back to d1.
How though? If the first one you get is still a fixed roll you're guaranteed to have the same better-than-average uriels or antiope that everyone else has.
They also need to add more perks to guns... even the one less that D2 weapons have from D1 hurts how interesting guns are (though they're easier to balance I assume)
I mean by the end of D1 we had a pretty balanced sandbox save for the few outlier snipers with ammo left (lol). I don't see how that sandbox was any way worse once they kinda nerfed special ammo into oblivion. Even then the weapon drops in D1 are still way more exciting based on their unique nature.
And a new balance patch is literally days away....
And they've rather obviously reworked their schedule significantly in response to community feedback
I tried to look up the Bungie statement about making dupes exciting, and ended up on my favorite place in the world, reddit.
Does everyone remember when Luke Smith was chatting about how our duplicates can be interesting? He said something like “how can my second, third, and tenth Better Devils hand cannon be interesting? That’s a question we should be asking and answering as quickly as we can”
I guess it's something Luke said in a chat/conversation? I'm not sure. A quick check of other results shows that the 10th dupe is a big thing on the reddit.
This runs straight back into the original problem random rolls, it makes 99% of them disappointing, makes the game much more difficult to balance, and simply means that the guns with the best stats dominate the meta (as opposed to now where there are guns with bad stats but great perk combos and vice versatility that are competitive within the meta, and then there's darkest before...), increases hoarding behaviour, removes the benefit of a common point of reference when talking about guns
Random rolls are a solution that simply creates more problems for a dubious benefit - it provides incentive to play more, but more "excitement"? More moment to moment enjoyment or fulfilment? I highly doubt that.
I dunno... I mean I'm wood league, I'm hardcore enough to debate space magic on a forum, but not enough to care about watching streamers.
D1 I was excited to see what gun dropped with what roll at the end of a match or strike. A lot were trash, but sometimes I'd get something interesting or that was an improvement over an existing weapon I had.
D2 I really don't care what drops because they're 100% not interesting. Outside of the few very good guns I can't find a reason to use anything sub-par in pvp and in pve it doesn't really matter what you use as long as it kills stuff.
Make the first item you get the "stock" build that unlocks it in a collection (like exotics) so you can draw that one whenever you want (factory Antiope for example, with the perks it has now). 2nd Antiope forward has random perks.
As soon as you've unlocked it you can draw the same very good antiope that everyone else has, but further antiopes have different perks and some may be worse and some may be better, but they'll all be more interesting than a second identical antiope.
This removes the entire good side of fixed rolls. If they were gonna do something like this they should just axe the entire fixed perk system and go back to d1.
How though? If the first one you get is still a fixed roll you're guaranteed to have the same better-than-average uriels or antiope that everyone else has.
They also need to add more perks to guns... even the one less that D2 weapons have from D1 hurts how interesting guns are (though they're easier to balance I assume)
The entire point of the fixed rolls isn't to assure a base level of whatever for a gun, it is to limit decision paralysis and remove inconsequential decision points. Right now the one advantage the loot system has is that I don't have to engage my brain to deal with a purple drop. Is it golden? No? Then to the fucking compactor. Earlier I'd have to check if I'd seen it before but even that is relatively easy than comparing some sort of of combinatorial space of possible guns and evaluating the scope+perk1+perk2 combinations and if this gun was secretly ridiculous.
And a new balance patch is literally days away....
And they've rather obviously reworked their schedule significantly in response to community feedback
I tried to look up the Bungie statement about making dupes exciting, and ended up on my favorite place in the world, reddit.
Does everyone remember when Luke Smith was chatting about how our duplicates can be interesting? He said something like “how can my second, third, and tenth Better Devils hand cannon be interesting? That’s a question we should be asking and answering as quickly as we can”
I guess it's something Luke said in a chat/conversation? I'm not sure. A quick check of other results shows that the 10th dupe is a big thing on the reddit.
Its something Luke Smith said in an interview with Mashable:
And a new balance patch is literally days away....
And they've rather obviously reworked their schedule significantly in response to community feedback
I tried to look up the Bungie statement about making dupes exciting, and ended up on my favorite place in the world, reddit.
Does everyone remember when Luke Smith was chatting about how our duplicates can be interesting? He said something like “how can my second, third, and tenth Better Devils hand cannon be interesting? That’s a question we should be asking and answering as quickly as we can”
I guess it's something Luke said in a chat/conversation? I'm not sure. A quick check of other results shows that the 10th dupe is a big thing on the reddit.
Its something Luke Smith said in an interview with Mashable:
the sad thing is that its easy to make dupes useful. Just give them base stats and 5 or 6 mod slots. Then make mods the replacement for perks. Then you find a weapon you love and can tune 3 or 4 versions of it. Design one autorifle for balance and range for distance work. Another copy of it for impact and fire speed for close range fights, etc.
It improves mods, too, because then you have a reason for all of them. You can also make the more unique perks like explosive rounds and firefly exotic mods to give another thing to chase.
Edit: That might even make sniper rifles useful. Take a high impact sniper and stack clip size, fire rate, and reload speed mods to up its DPS.
AspectVoid on
PSN|AspectVoid
+1
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
And a new balance patch is literally days away....
And they've rather obviously reworked their schedule significantly in response to community feedback
I tried to look up the Bungie statement about making dupes exciting, and ended up on my favorite place in the world, reddit.
Does everyone remember when Luke Smith was chatting about how our duplicates can be interesting? He said something like “how can my second, third, and tenth Better Devils hand cannon be interesting? That’s a question we should be asking and answering as quickly as we can”
I guess it's something Luke said in a chat/conversation? I'm not sure. A quick check of other results shows that the 10th dupe is a big thing on the reddit.
Its something Luke Smith said in an interview with Mashable:
the sad thing is that its easy to make dupes useful. Just give them base stats and 5 or 6 mod slots. Then make mods the replacement for perks. Then you find a weapon you love and can tune 3 or 4 versions of it. Design one autorifle for balance and range for distance work. Another copy of it for impact and fire speed for close range fights, etc.
It improves mods, too, because then you have a reason for all of them. You can also make the more unique perks like explosive rounds and firefly exotic mods to give another thing to chase.
Edit: That might even make sniper rifles useful. Take a high impact sniper and stack clip size, fire rate, and reload speed mods to up its DPS.
At this point you’re basically removing any need for there to be different weapons at all as opposed to simply weapon frames around which you roll your own - high impact solutions rifle, lightweight scout etc
It puts the focus on getting mod drops instead of loot.
Which sounds fun but is a completely different system.
And a new balance patch is literally days away....
And they've rather obviously reworked their schedule significantly in response to community feedback
I tried to look up the Bungie statement about making dupes exciting, and ended up on my favorite place in the world, reddit.
Does everyone remember when Luke Smith was chatting about how our duplicates can be interesting? He said something like “how can my second, third, and tenth Better Devils hand cannon be interesting? That’s a question we should be asking and answering as quickly as we can”
I guess it's something Luke said in a chat/conversation? I'm not sure. A quick check of other results shows that the 10th dupe is a big thing on the reddit.
Its something Luke Smith said in an interview with Mashable:
"We have ideas. While I would like nothing more than to share those ideas with you, we're up against [a deadline]. I don't know if they'll make it for our Sept. 6 [release] date. But we have some ideas that we're pretty excited about."
Okay, so I presume masterworks aren’t enough of a thing for people still unhappy with loot, and fair enough. But I don’t get with that quote and finding one line from an interview and making a whole production out of it. I get needing more stuff to do. But people need a statement from Bungie to “address” a line from an interview saying they’re working on a thing that might not hit the deadline?
Even the standard of video game “needs” that is ridiculous. You need more stuff to do? Alright. You need the developer to talk about what they’re working on? Sounds reasonable. You need statements to address the part of the community that have decided to mine a bunch of old interviews for select quotes to beat into the ground? Nah, that’s just fodder for the toxic stew that never finds an end.
And a new balance patch is literally days away....
And they've rather obviously reworked their schedule significantly in response to community feedback
I tried to look up the Bungie statement about making dupes exciting, and ended up on my favorite place in the world, reddit.
Does everyone remember when Luke Smith was chatting about how our duplicates can be interesting? He said something like “how can my second, third, and tenth Better Devils hand cannon be interesting? That’s a question we should be asking and answering as quickly as we can”
I guess it's something Luke said in a chat/conversation? I'm not sure. A quick check of other results shows that the 10th dupe is a big thing on the reddit.
To me, it encompasses so many reddit pain points. Removal of random rolls and end game loot problems, Luke Smith being a lightning rod of blame, and how Bungie has crossed the line from marketing to fully misleading about what’s in the game on many many things. And if Luke didn’t have a plan for this problem, and didn’t plan to actually make sandbox changes on the reg, why take out random rolls in the first place?
Luke’s comments implied they had a plan for that coming shortly near launch and they totally had no plan for that at all.
And a new balance patch is literally days away....
And they've rather obviously reworked their schedule significantly in response to community feedback
I tried to look up the Bungie statement about making dupes exciting, and ended up on my favorite place in the world, reddit.
Does everyone remember when Luke Smith was chatting about how our duplicates can be interesting? He said something like “how can my second, third, and tenth Better Devils hand cannon be interesting? That’s a question we should be asking and answering as quickly as we can”
I guess it's something Luke said in a chat/conversation? I'm not sure. A quick check of other results shows that the 10th dupe is a big thing on the reddit.
Its something Luke Smith said in an interview with Mashable:
"We have ideas. While I would like nothing more than to share those ideas with you, we're up against [a deadline]. I don't know if they'll make it for our Sept. 6 [release] date. But we have some ideas that we're pretty excited about."
Okay, so I presume masterworks aren’t enough of a thing for people still unhappy with loot, and fair enough. But I don’t get with that quote and finding one line from an interview and making a whole production out of it. I get needing more stuff to do. But people need a statement from Bungie to “address” a line from an interview saying they’re working on a thing that might not hit the deadline?
Even the standard of video game “needs” that is ridiculous. You need more stuff to do? Alright. You need the developer to talk about what they’re working on? Sounds reasonable. You need statements to address the part of the community that have decided to mine a bunch of old interviews for select quotes to beat into the ground? Nah, that’s just fodder for the toxic stew that never finds an end.
Ok, I get what you mean, but the idea behind set rolls, from that interview, was making the game easier to balance.
They have barely implemented balance patches since release. Am I wrong when I think they've only done two major balance patches?
I don't think it's unreasonable to take a statement made by someone like Luke Smith and then compare it to the lack of movement in both categories of things he spoke to (exciting dupes and game balance).
Edit - like, if you're company head, someone that fans will look to for direction with your mega franchise, just want to talk for the sake of airing random thoughts, maybe don't let him do interviews
Posts
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
(Destiny) Doot Doot, Shoot Brutes for New Boots, Woot Woot for Rad Suits and Phat Loots
i just don't agree D1 is significantly superior
D2 just primarily lacks the treadmill D1 had so when you aren't compelled to log in and grind out another 75 patrols for a faction rank up you just realize you'd rather be doing other things
i quite enjoy both of them
I dont believe you.
... Until you buy a 4th copy of Destiny 2
I think I personally differentiate them like this:
I enjoyED D2 for a certain amount of time.
I still enjoy whenever I play D1.
To be fair, I don't play either of them nearly as much as I once did.
(Destiny) Doot Doot, Shoot Brutes for New Boots, Woot Woot for Rad Suits and Phat Loots
i think if i had nothing else to do in D1 like I do in D2 i would probably just not play either anymore except when friends wanted to do stuff
because anything is still fun with friends
https://www.destructoid.com/destiny-2-s-incredibly-slow-patch-cycle-is-an-anomaly-in-a-swiftly-moving-landscape-495290.phtml
Ouch.
"[T]hey still haven't made good on their promise to actually communicate."
On the one hand, I think Bungie's communication has improved since the launch of D2. We have a clear roadmap that has been updated a couple times, and we've had multiple weeks in the past couple months where the [email protected] actually had some detailed substance.
The problem is, and what that article makes painfully clear, is that a personal improvement for Bungie (while nice) probably isn't good enough. 6-months-ago-Bungie vs. now-Bungie may look good, but now-Bungie vs. literally any other developer makes Bungie look terrible.
(Destiny) Doot Doot, Shoot Brutes for New Boots, Woot Woot for Rad Suits and Phat Loots
It wouldn't even be hard. The problems with D2 are obvious and almost universally acknowledged by everyone except Bungie. They could go a long-ass way by just admitting the issues exist and putting together a team of a half dozen people whose job is to engage the player-base, even if they don't do anything about their rate of fixing things.
Unrelatedly: is there some dark secret to getting a >325 class item? I've been stuck at 334 for...months? because everything is 335 except my warlock bond, which is 329. I get a drop or two of blue and occasional purple ones every time I play but every god damned one of them is 324, blue or purple.
Literally think it is just waiting for a powerful drop to be a class item. So Flashpoint/Clan Xp/Strikes/Call to Glory and the Nightfall/Crucible clan rewards.
Alternatively Eater of Worlds actually has smart loot so you could probably guarantee hitting 335 in three or four weeks since it'll drop a raid class item in that time frame.
I saw that, and my reaction was more cynical. I think this is basically a nice summary of the front page of the Destiny reddit less than 24 hours ago. I mostly associate this with Forbes bloggers, who've been studiously repackaging whatever the reddit is mad about back to them, and then it shows up on the reddit to all the upvotes as confirmation that everyone is right.
I've rarely seen the pandering be this blatant, though.
Let's put me in the "raises his eyebrows" column regarding what's implied here that Fortnite had more players back in the ancient time of February because of better developer communications. Really, he couldn't think of any of the other reasons Fortnite has more players?
I think it's the 3rd person view, personally.
Or, it’s an pretty on the spot analysis of the problems with the game.
Edit: and the developer.
The PC audience is more familiar with a more rapid iteration model. PC games have more frequent patches. PC games had more thriving communities in boards and now Reddit. PC games had community management rather than just PR. And PC games had public test realms and the like where bugs like Prometheus Lens could have been found before launch.
The Console developers are struggling to catch up to how PC developers do business. Epic/Fortnite was used to that world, and I sincerely think Bungie wasn't. Bungie came to the MMO space, to the community-driven game space, and wasn't prepared. And the explosion of Reddit and Twitch and the like in the past few years just buries them even further at a snails pace of response.
There is legitimate reason to say that their inability to quickly respond to players, whether even just in a dev update or with actual patches or test servers, diminishes customer trust when other competitors do those things.
I would argue that it's a bit of both... though it's strongly leaning toward the pandering and echo-validation.
Also, conversations that compare Digital Extreme's communication to Bungie's also tend to ignore the fact that Warframe is a free to play game, and it lives entirely off the relationship that it has with its players (including a design council)... it's been doing the devstream for years too. Kind of hard to take a writer serious if they ignore the fundamental reason why a thing is a certain way. DE also owns and published the game... and surprisingly they have had little to no interference from the Chinese food company that owns them now.
Isn't D2 behind D1's patches and support? Like their own previous entry had better support by this point.
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Since they both came out at about the same time in September, you could just start from the first patch Destiny 1 got to the April 2015 updates (or reverse chronologically) and just kinda look back through the history of its changes and see what kind of support Destiny 1 had that you wouldn't get in Destiny 2.
https://destiny.bungie.org/patchnotes/18
To me they look about the same.
To say that they operate on too slow a pace is understating things.
Regardless of your revenue model, having a solid foundation of playerbase communication and feedback should be a standard in todays marketplace. Things are too competitive to be otherwise.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
And a new balance patch is literally days away....
And they've rather obviously reworked their schedule significantly in response to community feedback
As soon as you've unlocked it you can draw the same very good antiope that everyone else has, but further antiopes have different perks and some may be worse and some may be better, but they'll all be more interesting than a second identical antiope.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
None were "god rolls" but I loved them just the same.
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But I think that goes without saying
Gamertag - Khraul
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This removes the entire good side of fixed rolls. If they were gonna do something like this they should just axe the entire fixed perk system and go back to d1.
Random rolls are a solution that simply creates more problems for a dubious benefit - it provides incentive to play more, but more "excitement"? More moment to moment enjoyment or fulfilment? I highly doubt that. But it is an empirical question and one that I doubt is easily answered simply by intuition and just so stories
How though? If the first one you get is still a fixed roll you're guaranteed to have the same better-than-average uriels or antiope that everyone else has.
They also need to add more perks to guns... even the one less that D2 weapons have from D1 hurts how interesting guns are (though they're easier to balance I assume)
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This is the most puzzling thing of all in their changes from D1 to D2.
Vault space was a constant issue/problem/headache in D1, which they partially solved in Y3 by adding kiosks for anything without random rolls.
And then they did literally nothing to improve the vault space problem in D2. In many ways they made it worse!
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I tried to look up the Bungie statement about making dupes exciting, and ended up on my favorite place in the world, reddit.
I guess it's something Luke said in a chat/conversation? I'm not sure. A quick check of other results shows that the 10th dupe is a big thing on the reddit.
I dunno... I mean I'm wood league, I'm hardcore enough to debate space magic on a forum, but not enough to care about watching streamers.
D1 I was excited to see what gun dropped with what roll at the end of a match or strike. A lot were trash, but sometimes I'd get something interesting or that was an improvement over an existing weapon I had.
D2 I really don't care what drops because they're 100% not interesting. Outside of the few very good guns I can't find a reason to use anything sub-par in pvp and in pve it doesn't really matter what you use as long as it kills stuff.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
The entire point of the fixed rolls isn't to assure a base level of whatever for a gun, it is to limit decision paralysis and remove inconsequential decision points. Right now the one advantage the loot system has is that I don't have to engage my brain to deal with a purple drop. Is it golden? No? Then to the fucking compactor. Earlier I'd have to check if I'd seen it before but even that is relatively easy than comparing some sort of of combinatorial space of possible guns and evaluating the scope+perk1+perk2 combinations and if this gun was secretly ridiculous.
Its something Luke Smith said in an interview with Mashable:
https://www.vg247.com/2017/06/30/destiny-2-scraps-random-rolls-on-weapons-what-it-has-on-it-is-what-it-has-on-it-period-says-bungie/
https://mashable.com/2017/06/29/destiny-2-loot-grind/#9_Hrqr69WgqS
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the sad thing is that its easy to make dupes useful. Just give them base stats and 5 or 6 mod slots. Then make mods the replacement for perks. Then you find a weapon you love and can tune 3 or 4 versions of it. Design one autorifle for balance and range for distance work. Another copy of it for impact and fire speed for close range fights, etc.
It improves mods, too, because then you have a reason for all of them. You can also make the more unique perks like explosive rounds and firefly exotic mods to give another thing to chase.
Edit: That might even make sniper rifles useful. Take a high impact sniper and stack clip size, fire rate, and reload speed mods to up its DPS.
At this point you’re basically removing any need for there to be different weapons at all as opposed to simply weapon frames around which you roll your own - high impact solutions rifle, lightweight scout etc
It puts the focus on getting mod drops instead of loot.
Which sounds fun but is a completely different system.
Okay, so I presume masterworks aren’t enough of a thing for people still unhappy with loot, and fair enough. But I don’t get with that quote and finding one line from an interview and making a whole production out of it. I get needing more stuff to do. But people need a statement from Bungie to “address” a line from an interview saying they’re working on a thing that might not hit the deadline?
Even the standard of video game “needs” that is ridiculous. You need more stuff to do? Alright. You need the developer to talk about what they’re working on? Sounds reasonable. You need statements to address the part of the community that have decided to mine a bunch of old interviews for select quotes to beat into the ground? Nah, that’s just fodder for the toxic stew that never finds an end.
To me, it encompasses so many reddit pain points. Removal of random rolls and end game loot problems, Luke Smith being a lightning rod of blame, and how Bungie has crossed the line from marketing to fully misleading about what’s in the game on many many things. And if Luke didn’t have a plan for this problem, and didn’t plan to actually make sandbox changes on the reg, why take out random rolls in the first place?
Luke’s comments implied they had a plan for that coming shortly near launch and they totally had no plan for that at all.
Ok, I get what you mean, but the idea behind set rolls, from that interview, was making the game easier to balance.
They have barely implemented balance patches since release. Am I wrong when I think they've only done two major balance patches?
I don't think it's unreasonable to take a statement made by someone like Luke Smith and then compare it to the lack of movement in both categories of things he spoke to (exciting dupes and game balance).
Edit - like, if you're company head, someone that fans will look to for direction with your mega franchise, just want to talk for the sake of airing random thoughts, maybe don't let him do interviews
Expectations will be set by things he says
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6