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[Artifact] Call to Arms set released. Give mid or feed!

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    MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I mean, all the pricing chatter and discussing whether it's better than hearthstone is kinda moot.

    Because if Valve actually gave a shit about the game being competitive it would be on an LCG model. But they put it on this model because, going off their own figures, they've already made at minimum $120,000 dollars in addition to whatever pack openings and copies of the game have sold.

    Also for what it's worth: Every time someone complains that having more options to earn packs would undermine the card economy: Good. The absolute worst bit of this game is having half the posts here and on reddit having to be indistinguishable from libertarians chatting up bitcoin.

    I realise this might be inflammatory and I'm possibly being lazy after a few google phrases didn't turn up the answer but...

    What is the basic pricing model of Artifact? Because I'm willing to pay an entry fee. And even some sort of subscription fee. And I want to support Valve because DotA's model was more than fair. But I loathe the TCG model and I just want to know wtf is going on.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    I mean, all the pricing chatter and discussing whether it's better than hearthstone is kinda moot.

    Because if Valve actually gave a shit about the game being competitive it would be on an LCG model. But they put it on this model because, going off their own figures, they've already made at minimum $120,000 dollars in addition to whatever pack openings and copies of the game have sold.

    Also for what it's worth: Every time someone complains that having more options to earn packs would undermine the card economy: Good. The absolute worst bit of this game is having half the posts here and on reddit having to be indistinguishable from libertarians chatting up bitcoin.

    I realise this might be inflammatory and I'm possibly being lazy after a few google phrases didn't turn up the answer but...

    What is the basic pricing model of Artifact? Because I'm willing to pay an entry fee. And even some sort of subscription fee. And I want to support Valve because DotA's model was more than fair. But I loathe the TCG model and I just want to know wtf is going on.

    It’s a tcg. Buying it gives you access to infinite draft and ten packs. To get any more cards you either have to buy more packs, but singles off the market or gamble and win with an event ticket.

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    MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    I mean, all the pricing chatter and discussing whether it's better than hearthstone is kinda moot.

    Because if Valve actually gave a shit about the game being competitive it would be on an LCG model. But they put it on this model because, going off their own figures, they've already made at minimum $120,000 dollars in addition to whatever pack openings and copies of the game have sold.

    Also for what it's worth: Every time someone complains that having more options to earn packs would undermine the card economy: Good. The absolute worst bit of this game is having half the posts here and on reddit having to be indistinguishable from libertarians chatting up bitcoin.

    I realise this might be inflammatory and I'm possibly being lazy after a few google phrases didn't turn up the answer but...

    What is the basic pricing model of Artifact? Because I'm willing to pay an entry fee. And even some sort of subscription fee. And I want to support Valve because DotA's model was more than fair. But I loathe the TCG model and I just want to know wtf is going on.

    It’s a tcg. Buying it gives you access to infinite draft and ten packs. To get any more cards you either have to buy more packs, but singles off the market or gamble and win with an event ticket.

    Ewwwwwww

    Welp, sorry guys but I'm out. I wish you all the best though!

    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    Gonna drop this in here again. We're gonna try out a Swiss style draft tournament. I'll close signups at 10 PM EST tonight and we'll see how this goes. I think it will allow us to play our rounds at any time, hopefully we can do like one tourney a week or something.

    https://www.playartifact.com/tournament/?invitekey=14864716847738005667

    Next week, we can do something different, like commons only constructed or whatever the thread wants to do.

    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    I mean, I played Netrunner for ages so yes. Plus digital games are capable of having sales that bundle older content.

    Which is leaving aside that the ‘horror’ of a £9 subscription is still easily a quarter of the price of a current full set and still less than what buying a deck costs currently.

    Edit: also for the infinite time ‘it’s better than hearthstones already exploitative model’ isn’t actually convincing.

    A subscription is only better if you want to play constructed. I just want to draft so i expect my costs to be up to $1 per expert draft once I feel good enough. I don’t want to pay a fee to have access to cards.


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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Tcheldor wrote: »
    I mean, I played Netrunner for ages so yes. Plus digital games are capable of having sales that bundle older content.

    Which is leaving aside that the ‘horror’ of a £9 subscription is still easily a quarter of the price of a current full set and still less than what buying a deck costs currently.

    Edit: also for the infinite time ‘it’s better than hearthstones already exploitative model’ isn’t actually convincing.

    A subscription is only better if you want to play constructed. I just want to draft so i expect my costs to be up to $1 per expert draft once I feel good enough. I don’t want to pay a fee to have access to cards.


    If you don’t want to play constructed why are you even springing for expert?

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    TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    Cause the prize is tickets, the playerbase is stronger and packs are $$

    League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I drafted this in phantom expert draft and won my first game, is it decent or did I just get lucky? The blue stuff seems mediocre for sure.

    https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJTAAvrgCCQ0HUT26AgEHAQYEEQYJAQkfDQMSAgEBBRZSAVRmASkBAhQcSAI_

    Lost game two but it felt close. Anyone have opinions on how I did on this deck?

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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I drafted this in phantom expert draft and won my first game, is it decent or did I just get lucky? The blue stuff seems mediocre for sure.

    https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJTAAvrgCCQ0HUT26AgEHAQYEEQYJAQkfDQMSAgEBBRZSAVRmASkBAhQcSAI_

    Lost game two but it felt close. Anyone have opinions on how I did on this deck?

    I like it, but without seeing the other cards I can't really comment too much. The blue splash feels unnecessary, but if you didn't have more cards in black and green it's totally fine. I would replace Lion with Debbie here, Lion is just a bad hero with a bad card. Debbie has a good signature card. Your curve is pretty good though, and that's what matters most.

    Also, your item deck needs to change. Always play 3 traveler's cloaks. You have no gold generation, so you only want cheap items. I'd go 3x traveler's cloak, 1x revtel signet ring, 1x stonehall cloak, 1x blink dagger, 1x phase boots, and 2x short swords. Might not even need the phase boots, but they're nice utility.

    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Is "always play 3 traveler's cloaks" sort of a general rule for everyone?

    What is this I don't even.
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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Is "always play 3 traveler's cloaks" sort of a general rule for everyone?

    Yes. Traveler's cloak is the best item in the game, edged out maybe by Blink Dagger. It honestly needs to be nerfed, it's so good.

    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    I drafted this in phantom expert draft and won my first game, is it decent or did I just get lucky? The blue stuff seems mediocre for sure.

    https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJTAAvrgCCQ0HUT26AgEHAQYEEQYJAQkfDQMSAgEBBRZSAVRmASkBAhQcSAI_

    Lost game two but it felt close. Anyone have opinions on how I did on this deck?

    I like it, but without seeing the other cards I can't really comment too much. The blue splash feels unnecessary, but if you didn't have more cards in black and green it's totally fine. I would replace Lion with Debbie here, Lion is just a bad hero with a bad card. Debbie has a good signature card. Your curve is pretty good though, and that's what matters most.

    Also, your item deck needs to change. Always play 3 traveler's cloaks. You have no gold generation, so you only want cheap items. I'd go 3x traveler's cloak, 1x revtel signet ring, 1x stonehall cloak, 1x blink dagger, 1x phase boots, and 2x short swords. Might not even need the phase boots, but they're nice utility.

    Good to know! I've been using https://i.imgur.com/wOFtRhI.jpg as a general tier list for what to pick and missed that lion is pretty low, whoops.

    Here's the other cards I've got in my pool:
    gplxjm8baqk3.png

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Is "always play 3 traveler's cloaks" sort of a general rule for everyone?

    Yes. Traveler's cloak is the best item in the game, edged out maybe by Blink Dagger. It honestly needs to be nerfed, it's so good.

    So, explain to me why, please. Four raw health doesn't seem that big to me.

    What is this I don't even.
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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Traveler's cloak just feels like a tempo item with permanent upside to me. It's not bad but it's not that much better than a salve

    I ate an engineer
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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Tcheldor wrote: »
    I mean, I played Netrunner for ages so yes. Plus digital games are capable of having sales that bundle older content.

    Which is leaving aside that the ‘horror’ of a £9 subscription is still easily a quarter of the price of a current full set and still less than what buying a deck costs currently.

    Edit: also for the infinite time ‘it’s better than hearthstones already exploitative model’ isn’t actually convincing.

    A subscription is only better if you want to play constructed. I just want to draft so i expect my costs to be up to $1 per expert draft once I feel good enough. I don’t want to pay a fee to have access to cards.

    This is actually an incredibly good point. For all the complaints about Artifact's model, it's still the only major card game that offers any form of built-in free drafts.
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Is "always play 3 traveler's cloaks" sort of a general rule for everyone?

    Yes. Traveler's cloak is the best item in the game, edged out maybe by Blink Dagger. It honestly needs to be nerfed, it's so good.

    So, explain to me why, please. Four raw health doesn't seem that big to me.

    If you're playing squishy heroes against Red/Black, it's important to put them out of gank/duel/berserker's call range. Revtel Signet Ring is another good one to deny hero killer decks the gold they expect to have to snowball.

    Dracil on
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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Is "always play 3 traveler's cloaks" sort of a general rule for everyone?

    Yes. Traveler's cloak is the best item in the game, edged out maybe by Blink Dagger. It honestly needs to be nerfed, it's so good.

    So, explain to me why, please. Four raw health doesn't seem that big to me.

    Tell me another item that costs 3 gold and can save almost any hero from death and permanently increases their health. Revtel Signet Ring is close, but there's even an argument that the 4 gold cost makes it not as good.

    It's an item that every deck can afford and that every hero will need at some point because having +4 health is so damn good. It's the same reason why Stonehall cloak is so good, it gives +2 health every turn.

    The difference between a 7 health Zeus and an 11 health Zeus is massive, and for only 3 gold.

    You don't have to listen to me on this, go watch a high level drafter and see how many times they skip out on cloaks. I have only seen it happen when someone has a high number of Revtel Signet Rings and Stonehall Cloaks.

    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Doing a casual draft and there's an evil satisfaction to Bolt of Damocles stealing a game when your opponent doesn't expect it.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Is "always play 3 traveler's cloaks" sort of a general rule for everyone?

    Yes. Traveler's cloak is the best item in the game, edged out maybe by Blink Dagger. It honestly needs to be nerfed, it's so good.

    So, explain to me why, please. Four raw health doesn't seem that big to me.

    Tell me another item that costs 3 gold and can save almost any hero from death and permanently increases their health. Revtel Signet Ring is close, but there's even an argument that the 4 gold cost makes it not as good.

    It's an item that every deck can afford and that every hero will need at some point because having +4 health is so damn good. It's the same reason why Stonehall cloak is so good, it gives +2 health every turn.

    The difference between a 7 health Zeus and an 11 health Zeus is massive, and for only 3 gold.

    You don't have to listen to me on this, go watch a high level drafter and see how many times they skip out on cloaks. I have only seen it happen when someone has a high number of Revtel Signet Rings and Stonehall Cloaks.

    I was not at all disagreeing, just asking for some strategy. Thanks for the response. I think there's parts of this I'm not getting yet.

    What is this I don't even.
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Basically the main way red or black decks win is by killing your heroes till you are dead.

    Cloak not only is an obscenely cheap way of stopping this (especially important for U/G decks that make zero money a turn) but can also throw off your opponent's game plan by preventing your heroes from dying the turn they expect them to die.

    Also I went full tryhard and have a U/G Selemene Kanna deck and HAHAHAHAHAHA that's some dumb garbage.

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJUQANLkCBwpMgrhdJ90BF1ExAUxMCwcFIQFFLQEJBA1dQkVOHQkGBg__

    U/G casual phantom draft deck. Clog up the board with Prellex, keep stuff alive with enchantress, use zeus and ogre to blast down the opponent before finishing off with BOLT OF DAMOCLEEEEEEES

    Went 5-0! Absolutely no rewards or even a "yay you did it!" afterwards is a little disappointing but I feel more prepared for the expert drafts at least.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Basically the main way red or black decks win is by killing your heroes till you are dead.

    Cloak not only is an obscenely cheap way of stopping this (especially important for U/G decks that make zero money a turn) but can also throw off your opponent's game plan by preventing your heroes from dying the turn they expect them to die.

    Also I went full tryhard and have a U/G Selemene Kanna deck and HAHAHAHAHAHA that's some dumb garbage.

    I think I'm stuck thinking in magic terms. It seems like every character that isn't red is basically a two toughness creature, so you need that cloak to hit the precious three toughness point.

    What is this I don't even.
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    A lot of U heroes can get flat 1 shot by combat with R heroes, so even a slight 2 or 3 hp boost effectively doubles their time to death.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Basically the main way red or black decks win is by killing your heroes till you are dead.

    Cloak not only is an obscenely cheap way of stopping this (especially important for U/G decks that make zero money a turn) but can also throw off your opponent's game plan by preventing your heroes from dying the turn they expect them to die.

    Also I went full tryhard and have a U/G Selemene Kanna deck and HAHAHAHAHAHA that's some dumb garbage.

    I think I'm stuck thinking in magic terms. It seems like every character that isn't red is basically a two toughness creature, so you need that cloak to hit the precious three toughness point.

    A little, it's also important to think about tempo in terms of how many heroes you have on deck: No matter what your deck is stronger with more dudes in the field for more mana spreads.

    Presuming that you're getting garbage luck and the flop slot machine always puts you vs red or black heroes that one shot you:

    T1 X T3 X T5 X T7 X T9

    And most games will end on turn 5 or at least be pretty firmly decided.

    Where as with a cloak buy on turn one or two that ups your survivability by even one turn:

    T1 X T3, T4, X T6, T7 X T9

    Makes a big difference to having people on board when it matters.

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    I don't particularly feel bad about the monetization model for the game, but I still dislike it because, while I enjoy the game enough, I don't feel a need to grind and actually, you know, play the game.

    There is no reward for playing the game besides the game. And I dunno if that is worth more than $20 to me. I'm sure I'll probably play a few more matches. At least finish my final draft token worth. Maybe come back if a new set drops?

    But with no free to play model, I think I'm already about done with it?

    Which is, admittedly, much longer than hearthstone held my interest!

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Okay hopped back into my expert phantom draft and got another 2 wins, so I'm 3-1 right now. Woo ticket return. Now to see if I can earn some packs. The Oath is pretty good once you get enough stuff in a lane to fire it off. I moved the ogre magi to the last slot since he's my splash, lets me get some blue cards then drop him in wherever and immediately use them if necessary.

    If I do get packs I dunno if I should open them or just save them for keeper draft. Hrrrm.

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I don't particularly feel bad about the monetization model for the game, but I still dislike it because, while I enjoy the game enough, I don't feel a need to grind and actually, you know, play the game.

    There is no reward for playing the game besides the game. And I dunno if that is worth more than $20 to me. I'm sure I'll probably play a few more matches. At least finish my final draft token worth. Maybe come back if a new set drops?

    But with no free to play model, I think I'm already about done with it?

    Which is, admittedly, much longer than hearthstone held my interest!

    I'm digging it quite a bit so far but it would be nice if it had some sort of ranked mode like hearthstone has so even if you're only spending the basic 20 bucks you at least have something to work on other than just games for fun.

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I don't particularly feel bad about the monetization model for the game, but I still dislike it because, while I enjoy the game enough, I don't feel a need to grind and actually, you know, play the game.

    There is no reward for playing the game besides the game. And I dunno if that is worth more than $20 to me. I'm sure I'll probably play a few more matches. At least finish my final draft token worth. Maybe come back if a new set drops?

    But with no free to play model, I think I'm already about done with it?

    Which is, admittedly, much longer than hearthstone held my interest!

    I'm digging it quite a bit so far but it would be nice if it had some sort of ranked mode like hearthstone has so even if you're only spending the basic 20 bucks you at least have something to work on other than just games for fun.

    Is there a ladder or is it only constructed tournaments?

    I haven't looked at constructed format yet. Don't have the cards and am pretty sure I don't want to spend more.

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    There's no ladder. We do have matchmaking rating but it's hidden.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Yilias wrote: »
    There's no ladder. We do have matchmaking rating but it's hidden.

    That sounds dumber than not having a ranking at all.

    Like you recognize it is needed, but keep it secret for...reasons?

    People like it when numbers go up. That is, like, game making 101 isn't it?

    Burtletoy on
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    EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I think it's been said that incorporating some kind of ladder or progression system is a priority.

    Good thing, too. When I go to the pub tomorrow evening for the weekly card game meetup I know I can't enjoy myself until we've handed out the badges with everyone's rank on it before we start playing. Loser buys the winner a beer, obviously, because otherwise what even is the point of playing?

    Epimer on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Clearly there are no differences between hanging out with people in an intimate setting and playing a competitive game against them and playing a game on your computer.

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Clearly there are no differences between hanging out with people in an intimate setting and playing a competitive game against them and playing a game on your computer.

    Also the difference between everyone playing a competitive deck where they can't talk to each other beforehand to discuss intent, and at the table where you'll probably agree to game formats and break out diverse decks.

    What is this I don't even.
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Doing a more indepth look at lists and apparently Honey played a 42 card list?
    https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJYsGJLkCQwcRljpdpN0BiIGRm6oCgUFjAwqMMgKHSFdlUGxheQ__

    That has to be a mistake right?

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    It's not the worst thing in the world to run a deck that's slightly larger than the minimum size. In general you want to trim down to minimum, but occasionally keeping the extra card or two is the right call or at least an acceptable decision.

    3DS Friend Code:
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    So I'm looking for advice on draft cuts (matchmaking not our league).

    Full pool minus red cards: https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJXoALLkCCIsJRrhdgYEj3QEI0QRRCQkMBQOIA0cFhBUBAQUBARtBCzIBBMQEbAGNBgRBGAgB

    Here's where I'm at now (46 cards): https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJXkArLkCCAsJRjhdJd0B2QRREgwIiANHBYQVAQEGHEELNgHEBGwBWBgI

    I'm a little unsure about triple Goldmine since I don't really have anything expensive (I got offered Alpha and Vestmentsture early on but I didn't have mines yet T.T), but I guess I can just rush through everything and then snag anything that pops up in the secret shop. My proportion of blue is a little off but they're all such powerhouses and I have a bunch of mana refill to dump two per turn. Not sure if 1 should run Skywrath over J'Muy either, I might want the Thunderstorm back if I do.

    Yilias on
    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Tournament is open for drafting!

    Everyone needs to submit decks before we start, we'll see where we're at tomorrow night.

    Edit: Here's my draft deck, spoilered for disgusting

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Dear God, double Emissary and a Time of Triumph, it's disgusting...

    Here's mine: https://www.playartifact.com/d/ADCJcMAJ7kCVAqMA7hdZd0BAx8ITwMUFwxPCwUSAV+iAQQRBBcKCB0QBg__

    Card quality doesn't seem bad but I've got no bombs which is going to make for a questionable blue deck.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Everytime I draft and try to draft red, I get barely any red cards and then I get stomped!

    Need to save up and grab some of these fancy heroes like drow and hit up constructed before I burn all my event tickets.

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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Everytime I draft and try to draft red, I get barely any red cards and then I get stomped!

    Need to save up and grab some of these fancy heroes like drow and hit up constructed before I burn all my event tickets.

    Constructed is a fools game unless you're gonna plop down $40 to $60 for a deck.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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