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[Artifact] Call to Arms set released. Give mid or feed!

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    TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    Is drafting in this game asynchronous? Do you play against people in the same draft pool?

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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Speaking of March of Machines, Tinker looks pretty dang good.

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    It's not real time. The drafting pool is composed of cards other drafters passed on in the past. You play against everyone, not just the 'pool' you drafted against.

    Since the original beta gave everyone all the cards, noone was rare drafting so the start of open beta was pretty favorable for it. Idk if over time new draft pools overwrite past draft pools or we'll just accrue a massive pile of offerings.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Some pro tips about hero deployment:
    • Don't let my solo red hero win a lane all by himself. Fight me a little bit on it, don't just give me 50% of the win without contesting me. I know he kills your squishy heroes, do it anyways. Even better if you have something like Cunning Plan that can let you deploy in front of him without dying.
    • If you haven't taken a lane yet and you have a 3- or 4-hero deployment this turn, DON'T STACK IN A SINGLE LANE. If you do that, I'm just going to use that lane as my sacrifice lane now and strand all of your heroes there. Because you haven't taken a lane yet, I'm allowed to do this.
    • Don't overcommit. This is primarily a bluffing game where you're trying to force your opponent to overcommit in a single spot. If you throw down 2 Ignites and a Mist of Avernus and have two heroes in a lane, GEE I WONDER WHICH LANE I WON'T FIGHT FOR.
    • Blue and black heroes work best in the left lane. A lot of their spells and abilities work cross-lane, so you can cast March of the Machines from lane 1 into lane 3 and have it go off on the same turn, leading to some surprise hero deaths that your opponent wasn't prepared for.

    Literally the goal of my deck is to use Green/Blue cross lanes to stack a lane with auto buffs/summons to the point you sac it by turn 3/4 while still letting me have pressure.

    Like I wait for someone to give up on the Mist lane and then just leave Prellux there to cross cast spells or use Foresight while still having 4 heroes free elsewhere.

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    ToasticusToasticus yeah YEAHRegistered User regular
    Yeah, putting a lot of buffs in one lane often allows you to use your heroes for big pressure in other lanes because people hate fighting for buffed lanes. It can be pretty effective.

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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Some pro tips about hero deployment:
    • Don't let my solo red hero win a lane all by himself. Fight me a little bit on it, don't just give me 50% of the win without contesting me. I know he kills your squishy heroes, do it anyways. Even better if you have something like Cunning Plan that can let you deploy in front of him without dying.
    • If you haven't taken a lane yet and you have a 3- or 4-hero deployment this turn, DON'T STACK IN A SINGLE LANE. If you do that, I'm just going to use that lane as my sacrifice lane now and strand all of your heroes there. Because you haven't taken a lane yet, I'm allowed to do this.
    • Don't overcommit. This is primarily a bluffing game where you're trying to force your opponent to overcommit in a single spot. If you throw down 2 Ignites and a Mist of Avernus and have two heroes in a lane, GEE I WONDER WHICH LANE I WON'T FIGHT FOR.
    • Blue and black heroes work best in the left lane. A lot of their spells and abilities work cross-lane, so you can cast March of the Machines from lane 1 into lane 3 and have it go off on the same turn, leading to some surprise hero deaths that your opponent wasn't prepared for.

    Literally the goal of my deck is to use Green/Blue cross lanes to stack a lane with auto buffs/summons to the point you sac it by turn 3/4 while still letting me have pressure.

    Like I wait for someone to give up on the Mist lane and then just leave Prellux there to cross cast spells or use Foresight while still having 4 heroes free elsewhere.

    You can ignore literally everything I just said if your deck is built to 80 a lane and you're using Kanna or Prellex.

    I didn't mean to imply that these are rules that can never be broken. Some decks are built to abuse the mechanics in a way that makes these rules wrong.

    It will almost never happen to you in draft, though.

    Spawnbroker on
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    It’s less that and more setting up a machine that costs me nearly nothing but still demands attention

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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    I'm trying to give new players some general guidelines to how to play the game. Running into a deck like yours is a special situation that will require special tips, and it's not really useful for a new player to hear protips about dealing with one specific deck.

    General guidelines can be wrong when up against a specific deck. Those guidelines can still be correct 90% of the time. You need to know the basics before you learn why those basics might not apply in certain situations.

    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I'm not like, correcting you or saying they're bad tips.

    I'm saying that, even as just new player guide lines, they're too simplistic because they actively play into popular control archetypes.

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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    Well I think that's where our disconnect is. You think I'm talking about constructed, and I'm totally not. I haven't played a single game of constructed in Artifact.

    I'd like to play constructed eventually, but I'm also taking my time and trying to learn the draft format more.

    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    chuck steakchuck steak Registered User regular
    My first couple of games were kind of fun. I felt like I was keeping up and had some semblance of thinking I might be able to win. And then they play a 7 or 8 mana card that completely seals the game for them. I have a lot to learn and it's going to take a lot of losing.

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    RendRend Registered User regular
    Well I think that's where our disconnect is. You think I'm talking about constructed, and I'm totally not. I haven't played a single game of constructed in Artifact.

    I'd like to play constructed eventually, but I'm also taking my time and trying to learn the draft format more.

    Are you saying you can't draft a control deck?
    Popular deck archetypes can absolutely be drafted, unless there's something very weird about artifact

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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    Well I think that's where our disconnect is. You think I'm talking about constructed, and I'm totally not. I haven't played a single game of constructed in Artifact.

    I'd like to play constructed eventually, but I'm also taking my time and trying to learn the draft format more.

    Are you saying you can't draft a control deck?
    Popular deck archetypes can absolutely be drafted, unless there's something very weird about artifact

    That's pretty much exactly what I'm saying, yes. Control decks are too reactive in Artifact for draft. You need creeps to play and things to do. It's why Blue is the worst draft color (and it's not even close), and why red-black is a VERY popular draft archetype and blue-black is a very unpopular one. Blue-black decks, in my experience, lose before they come online. They are too reactive.

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    Well I think that's where our disconnect is. You think I'm talking about constructed, and I'm totally not. I haven't played a single game of constructed in Artifact.

    I'd like to play constructed eventually, but I'm also taking my time and trying to learn the draft format more.

    Are you saying you can't draft a control deck?
    Popular deck archetypes can absolutely be drafted, unless there's something very weird about artifact

    Control and "I plan to 80 a single lane" aren't the same thing.

    Also, deck archetypes are undraftable all the time! Combo and mill are virtually undraftable in MTG

    I ate an engineer
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    ToasticusToasticus yeah YEAHRegistered User regular
    I have definitely dropped a stack of buffs in one lane as an effective tactic in draft. Several people who ignored the potential of an 80 got superbly bopped.

    If anything, I'd warn new players to be careful about committing to having abandoned a lane.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Abandoning a lane is smart but is also you consciously saying 'I will end this match in 4~ turns'.

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    RendRend Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Well I think that's where our disconnect is. You think I'm talking about constructed, and I'm totally not. I haven't played a single game of constructed in Artifact.

    I'd like to play constructed eventually, but I'm also taking my time and trying to learn the draft format more.

    Are you saying you can't draft a control deck?
    Popular deck archetypes can absolutely be drafted, unless there's something very weird about artifact

    Control and "I plan to 80 a single lane" aren't the same thing.

    Also, deck archetypes are undraftable all the time! Combo and mill are virtually undraftable in MTG

    I haven't done any artifact drafting yet, didn't really have time to play, but from what I've watched I would guess a "one lane to 80" win condition deck is closer to mill or combo, where "control" is a much more general archetype.

    That being said maybe the draft format is horribly skewed in this set against that archetype, and it actually is just super difficult to build. I don't know the card set well enough but I would expect if it's designed well for generic control to be a draftable archetype.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Well I think that's where our disconnect is. You think I'm talking about constructed, and I'm totally not. I haven't played a single game of constructed in Artifact.

    I'd like to play constructed eventually, but I'm also taking my time and trying to learn the draft format more.

    Are you saying you can't draft a control deck?
    Popular deck archetypes can absolutely be drafted, unless there's something very weird about artifact

    Control and "I plan to 80 a single lane" aren't the same thing.

    Also, deck archetypes are undraftable all the time! Combo and mill are virtually undraftable in MTG

    I haven't done any artifact drafting yet, didn't really have time to play, but from what I've watched I would guess a "one lane to 80" win condition deck is closer to mill or combo, where "control" is a much more general archetype.

    That being said maybe the draft format is horribly skewed in this set against that archetype, and it actually is just super difficult to build. I don't know the card set well enough but I would expect if it's designed well for generic control to be a draftable archetype.

    FWIW you can play control.

    The big issues are that when no one's decks are working 100% Red heroes with their obscene stats are a disproportionate pull on the games compared to constructed where I can ensure I have tools to stop them.

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    RendRend Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Well I think that's where our disconnect is. You think I'm talking about constructed, and I'm totally not. I haven't played a single game of constructed in Artifact.

    I'd like to play constructed eventually, but I'm also taking my time and trying to learn the draft format more.

    Are you saying you can't draft a control deck?
    Popular deck archetypes can absolutely be drafted, unless there's something very weird about artifact

    Control and "I plan to 80 a single lane" aren't the same thing.

    Also, deck archetypes are undraftable all the time! Combo and mill are virtually undraftable in MTG

    I haven't done any artifact drafting yet, didn't really have time to play, but from what I've watched I would guess a "one lane to 80" win condition deck is closer to mill or combo, where "control" is a much more general archetype.

    That being said maybe the draft format is horribly skewed in this set against that archetype, and it actually is just super difficult to build. I don't know the card set well enough but I would expect if it's designed well for generic control to be a draftable archetype.

    FWIW you can play control.

    The big issues are that when no one's decks are working 100% Red heroes with their obscene stats are a disproportionate pull on the games compared to constructed where I can ensure I have tools to stop them.

    Hey like what? What tools?
    Tell me about tools that stop red heroes
    please

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Rend wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Well I think that's where our disconnect is. You think I'm talking about constructed, and I'm totally not. I haven't played a single game of constructed in Artifact.

    I'd like to play constructed eventually, but I'm also taking my time and trying to learn the draft format more.

    Are you saying you can't draft a control deck?
    Popular deck archetypes can absolutely be drafted, unless there's something very weird about artifact

    Control and "I plan to 80 a single lane" aren't the same thing.

    Also, deck archetypes are undraftable all the time! Combo and mill are virtually undraftable in MTG

    I haven't done any artifact drafting yet, didn't really have time to play, but from what I've watched I would guess a "one lane to 80" win condition deck is closer to mill or combo, where "control" is a much more general archetype.

    That being said maybe the draft format is horribly skewed in this set against that archetype, and it actually is just super difficult to build. I don't know the card set well enough but I would expect if it's designed well for generic control to be a draftable archetype.

    FWIW you can play control.

    The big issues are that when no one's decks are working 100% Red heroes with their obscene stats are a disproportionate pull on the games compared to constructed where I can ensure I have tools to stop them.

    Hey like what? What tools?
    Tell me about tools that stop red heroes
    please

    So first you draft a crystal maiden.

    Then you give her rapid deployment.

    And then put her infront of the hero every turn.

    EDIT: More seriously, Annihilate, rebel decoy, phase boots and just raw numbers advantage so those boys never are hitting towers or something important.

    Albino Bunny on
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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    The problem with "control" in draft is that some aggro decks just do what they're trying to do, but better.

    Why play a blue control deck that aims to spam Eclipses and Thundergods wraths on turn 6 and 7 when there is a red-black aggro deck that kills all enemy heroes as soon as they drop on the board using combat tricks and Debbie's signature card? And then uses the gold generated from that to buy a helm of the dominator or horn of the alpha.

    It's not that control can't work, it totally can! It just requires cards with synergy to be drafted together and you need early plays to fend off the aggression. It is harder to draft for control because you're more likely to not get the pieces you need to survive.

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    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    I mean, the issue is that drafting blue requires two good picks (good hero, good spells) while red just needs the good hero.

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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    I like the idea of teleporting heroes or blinking heroes from lane to lane to surprise enemies and do stuff they weren't expecting. Does anyone have a decent start of a deck like that? Maybe with like Phantom Assassin or other hero killers?

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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    I will demonstrate the problem with Blue in draft via an example of late game bombs.

    Red's late game rare bomb: Time of Triumph

    Green's late game rare bomb: Emissary of the Quorum

    Blue's late game rare bomb: Incarnation of Selemene. Alternatively, Bolt of Damocles

    Black doesn't have late game bombs because they have the item deck, and that's usually black's win condition. Black's late game bomb: Horn of the Alpha

    Do you notice anything strange about the blue bombs? They don't actually win the game by themselves AND they come out 1-2 turns later than the other colors.

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    RendRend Registered User regular
    Does activate cost that much mana, or have that long to cool down?

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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    If a card says Active X, it means it can be activated every X turns as an action. It doesn't cost any mana.

    So Emissary of the Quorum says you can click that button every turn to give all creeps in that lane +2/+2.

    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    ToasticusToasticus yeah YEAHRegistered User regular
    Abandoning a lane is smart but is also you consciously saying 'I will end this match in 4~ turns'.

    It definitely can be that, but sometimes the opponent gets too hasty about pulling their resources from the lane you abandoned as well, giving you a chance for a surprise comeback.

    It's interesting how difficult it is to give blanket advice for Artifact. So much of it is contextual rather than finding "optimal" lines. I really like that.

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    General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Drafts are always more limited in archetypes because some archetypes are harder to put together from a random pod of cards.

    I'm speaking from mtg experience, but I imagine that it mostly rings true here too. A combo deck relies upon the specific interaction of certain cards, so it's rare to have access to the multiple copies of all of the combo pieces. Control can be assembled from a good bomb as a win condition combined with some good controlling spells, but the pod can have a shortage of control spells and often stuff like board wipes that are control's principle counter to some other decks are very rare in limited environments. Meanwhile and aggro or midrange deck primarily just wants bodies. You might not be able to draft the best bodies, but there are always bodies to draft.

    That's the difference. Aggro and midrange will always be able to draft the cards that they need to follow the game plan, even if it's not the specific cards that they want most. Meanwhile someone attempting to assemble a control deck can very realistically find themself missing cornerstone cards that they need for the control game plan to come together.

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    PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Small patch got pushed out today:

    https://steamcommunity.com/games/583950/announcements/detail/1714079766529354813
    Fixed a crash that would happen sometimes when the game lost focus.
    Fixed a crash that would happen when hovering over cards or towers when a game ended.
    Fixed a Mac OS crash that would happen when running in high resolutions.
    Fixed some Market prices listed in the client being incorrect.
    Fixed some issues in the deck editor when playing through multiple draft gauntlets in one session.
    Fixed some display issues with the effects for Remote Detonation and the imps.
    Updated the localization files.

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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Played some games today after work. I like the Mono Green pre-constructed deck a lot, I might try to buy those cards for that but Drow is still like $11...

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I did not have any luck. I have one card worth more than a dollar, and it's worth two. I only have like six cards worth more than five cents.

    What is this I don't even.
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Why does 'sort by cost' put things in alphabetical order instead of by cost?
    egGSqxN.jpg

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    BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    I pulled an Axe. Put in a sell order to cover the cost of the game plus a bit more. That's alright.

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Yilias wrote: »
    Why does 'sort by cost' put things in alphabetical order instead of by cost?
    egGSqxN.jpg

    it starts at axe and then gets confused

    (Also it's probably starting with Hero Cards, which have no mana cost)

    I needed anime to post. on
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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    Another perfect draft run down, that's I think my third since launch. I dropped a game to a ridiculous deck that blew me out with card quality. I think he was like...Sniper, Enchantress, Lycan, Tinker, Ursa? It was a pretty crazy deck, he must have had some crazy luck during drafting. Other than that, it hasn't been too bad in draft land. Funded my first keeper draft though, woo!

    Steam: Spawnbroker
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Why does 'sort by cost' put things in alphabetical order instead of by cost?
    egGSqxN.jpg

    it starts at axe and then gets confused

    (Also it's probably starting with Hero Cards, which have no mana cost)

    Ah mana cost. I started on the buy page so I figured it was price but its cost on every page.

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    TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    Cost'll be mana cost, not price to purchase.

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    ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    So at current Drow/Axe prices, assuming you open enough packs to average out (meaning you get some of the top 5 rare cards or blink daggers), you're better off buying packs than buying the singles. At the time of writing, a full collection costs about $314, and the expected value from a pack is $2.56. If you're planning on buying the packs to sell the cards though, I guess subtract 15% from the value.

    (Even if you don't get the top money cards, the EV is still about $1.95)

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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Welp, I opened my packs instead of doing Keeper Draft. Got nothing exciting. What a bummer :< This is why I hate lootboxes. They've never been good.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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