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I'm a 2-d man in a 3-d world...

Spectral SwallowSpectral Swallow Registered User regular
edited May 2007 in Games and Technology
So I recently went back and was playing Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3, and realized I was having tons of fun. Which got me thinking, it's kinda weird how the DS has bogarted all the 2-d sidescrolling games. Seriously who wouldn't kill for a game that looked like(and played like) Donkey Kong Country on the 360 or something?

There is 'Little Big World' coming for the PS3, and it looks absolutely beautiful, but that's the only thing I can think of even remotely close.

So here's my question, why haven't we seen a Super Mario World with the 2-d graphics on a next gen system? It surely is a WHOLE lot cheaper to make, and I'm sure there is a market, is it something totally obvious I'm missing?

Summary: I like sprites.

Spectral Swallow on
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Posts

  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    If Super Paper Mario sales are as good as I think they have been, I think a NSMW could be on the way.

    Edit: also the top selling VC titles are -

    1. Super Mario World
    2. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
    3. Street Fighter II: The World Warrior
    4. Super Castlevania IV
    5. Donkey Kong Country


    Nintendo have top be using VC sales as market research.

    LewieP on
  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I see a lot of mainstream purchasers going "those grafiks are gay" and not buying 2D games, but I bet the mario name could make up for a lot of slack on their part...that would be awesome to see more new 2D games like NSMB and Odin Sphere.

    Darlan on
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Little Big Planet uses 3D, not sprites.
    If that's your sort of thing, there's Klonoa 2 and Viewtiful Joe.

    Xagarath on
  • NorayNoray Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Odin Sphere? Well it's 2d, sidescrolling and looks totally awesome

    As for your question, there aren't many games like it because it probably isn't a lucrative business idea as there is little precedent and it is generally assumed the mass market wants big-budget 3d shootan games. I wouldn't mind more beatiful 3d games on a 2d plane though.

    Noray on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Noray wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind more beatiful 3d games on a 2d plane though.

    Agreed, I would love a psudo-sequal to Jungle Beat, it is one of my favourite games ever.

    LewieP on
  • NickTheNewbieNickTheNewbie Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Summary: I like sprites.

    Those grafiks are lame

    NickTheNewbie on
  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I want somebody to make a heavilly stylized game, reminiscent of this cell phone games advertisement I saw some time ago. It used low-rez sprites with realistic high dynamic range lighting, and camera angles slightly-off-from-straight-on, creating a wonderfully weird world of extreme retro 2D and 3D modern effects and lighting.

    There's something about that asthetic that I really like.

    edit: here it is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3QnvEgQOzQ

    Retro sprites and volumetric explosions with huge pixelated score numbers coming out of them? Yes please.

    GSM on
    We'll get back there someday.
  • Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    With the title, all I can think about it Super Paper Mario. I mean, "I'm a 2-d man in a 3-d world" is pretty much the very definition of SPM's gameplay.

    In any case, yeah, I'd love to see some new sidescrollers in the style of New Super Mario Bros or Jungle Beat. It's obvious that people still have a lot of fun with them, so it makes sense. I get the feeling though, that this has kind of become the DS' Niche - if Nintendo decides to "revive" sidescrolling games to a greater extent, I imagine that they would mostly be on the DS and would save the newer and more untested stuff for the Wii. Which is fine with me, as the DS seems like the perfect platform for them, honestly.

    Big Dookie on
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  • DusdaDusda is ashamed of this post SLC, UTRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Does anyone have sales figures on Super Paper Mario? That would be an interesting number.

    Dusda on
    and this sig. and this twitch stream.
  • AnakinOUAnakinOU Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    So here's my question, why haven't we seen a Super Mario World with the 2-d graphics on a next gen system? It surely is a WHOLE lot cheaper to make, and I'm sure there is a market, is it something totally obvious I'm missing?

    Is it really cheaper to draw 2D sprites, with all the animation, scrolling backgrounds, effects, etc., than to use an already-developed 3D engine and library?

    AnakinOU on
  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    AnakinOU wrote: »
    So here's my question, why haven't we seen a Super Mario World with the 2-d graphics on a next gen system? It surely is a WHOLE lot cheaper to make, and I'm sure there is a market, is it something totally obvious I'm missing?

    Is it really cheaper to draw 2D sprites, with all the animation, scrolling backgrounds, effects, etc., than to use an already-developed 3D engine and library?

    Yeah, I would imagine the visuals for games like Odin Sphere, Heroine Anthem, and Guilty Gear cost at least as much to make as your standard 3D graphics would cost.

    RainbowDespair on
  • bigtimeslackerbigtimeslacker Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Noray wrote: »
    . I wouldn't mind more beatiful 3d games on a 2d plane though.

    i always thought team17 should make a new worms game like this. i imagine the weapon effects, explosions, and land destruction would look sweet with some of stuff a 3d card could do, but worms needs to stay on a 2d plane, screw all that wacky camera crap in worms 3d.

    bigtimeslacker on
    pa_sig.jpg
  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    GSM wrote: »
    I want somebody to make a heavilly stylized game, reminiscent of this cell phone games advertisement I saw some time ago. It used low-rez sprites with realistic high dynamic range lighting, and camera angles slightly-off-from-straight-on, creating a wonderfully weird world of extreme retro 2D and 3D modern effects and lighting.

    There's something about that aesthetic that I really like.

    edit: here it is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3QnvEgQOzQ

    Retro sprites and volumetric explosions with huge pixelated score numbers coming out of them? Yes please.

    OH MY GOD

    I need to bookmark that. Depth of field, shaky camera, realistic explosions ... This actually seems like a game I could make. I'm good at graphics programming, but I suck when it comes to actually making artistic assets for a game.

    Throw in some epic orchestrated music (I'm sure there's some public domain symphony stuff I can find) and classic "pew pew" shooting sounds and we may have a winner on our hands. :P

    mausmalone on
    266.jpg
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Well, it is 3D, but the Sly Cooper games for PS2 feel the most like 2D platformer games of old to me out of the big three series released last gen.

    Other than that, I'd recommend getting a DS. You've got NSMB, the Castlevanias (DS and GBA) and the GBA Metroids. There's some beautiful 2D work happening on the DS.

    jclast on
    camo_sig2.png
  • solsovlysolsovly Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    GBA satisfies my 2D gaming fix. There are some limited DS games as well.

    There needs to be a new Ninja Five-O game.

    solsovly on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    What ever happened to the really stylised B&W platformer that looked like shadow puppets, it appeared to have gameplay like Out of this World or something similar.

    LewieP on
  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    LewieP wrote: »
    What ever happened to the really stylised B&W platformer that looked like shadow puppets, it appeared to have gameplay like Out of this World or something similar.

    It's called Limbo. Apparently, the same goes for its production status.

    mausmalone on
    266.jpg
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    mausmalone wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    What ever happened to the really stylised B&W platformer that looked like shadow puppets, it appeared to have gameplay like Out of this World or something similar.

    It's called Limbo. Apparently, the same goes for its production status.

    thats the ticket, I vaguely remembered it having an ironic name, cheers ;-)

    LewieP on
  • FirebrandFirebrand Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Noray wrote: »
    . I wouldn't mind more beatiful 3d games on a 2d plane though.

    i always thought team17 should make a new Superfrog game

    Fixed.

    Also, I'd love to see not just "2.5D" games, but high resolution graphics with hand-drawn sprites in, say, Castlevania.

    Firebrand on
  • FaceballMcDougalFaceballMcDougal Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    My good friend is like this. Every time we talk games he tells me how much he likes side scrollers.

    There are a few on 360 XBLA already but if you want the Nintendo games it's quite obvious where you need to go

    FaceballMcDougal on
    xbl/psn/steam: jabbertrack
  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Odin Sphere is going to quite a good thing for us 2D enthusiasts, because not only is it 2D, it's 2D and gorgeous.

    Also Klonoa 2 is pretty rad.

    mynameisguido on
    steam_sig.png
  • Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I too love the 2-D sidescrollers. Much more than the 3-D graphics on a 2-D plane, like New Super Mario Bros. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but high end sprites with high end animation still make my jaw drop.

    Dodge Aspen on
    Xbox - Dodge Mega
    Switch - SW-3699-5063-5018

  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I remember getting a lot more fun and play time out of the Street Fighter games than I ever did out of any 3D fighters like Tekken. (I didn't play the 3D street fighter game that I refuse to aknowledge the existence of)

    Johannen on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    BTW, everyone who loves old skool sprite graphics should seriously check out Seiklus. It's a utterly joyful.

    LewieP on
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    for me, it does not matter how good the graphics are, and whether it's 2 or 3D, it's how fun the fucking game is. and that is the way it should be.

    wunderbar on
    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
  • Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Since Christmas, I have put much more time into Castlevania IV, Super Ghouls and Ghosts, and Punch-Out!! than Super Paper Mario and God of War.

    Dodge Aspen on
    Xbox - Dodge Mega
    Switch - SW-3699-5063-5018

  • SirUltimosSirUltimos Don't talk, Rusty. Just paint. Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I think there's still a market for 2D games through services like XBLA and the Wii's VC. I may be mistaken, but haven't a bunch of 2D game salready been released on the XBLA? If they do well it could lead to even more 2D games, could it not?

    SirUltimos on
  • bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Dusda wrote: »
    Does anyone have sales figures on Super Paper Mario? That would be an interesting number.

    Supposedly just over 250,000 for its first month in the US, and it's sold 220,000 in Japan in two weeks. We'll have NPD numbers for April (Pokebomb) next week.

    bruin on
  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    wunderbar wrote: »
    for me, it does not matter how good the graphics are, and whether it's 2 or 3D, it's how fun the fucking game is. and that is the way it should be.

    For me, I have more fun when I'm able to forget about the controls, forget about the camera, and simply play. Although 3d games have certainly come along way, for me they still can't compete with the immediate pick up and play of many 2d games. I love both types of games, but find I'm able to have more fun with older 2d games.

    Even Zelda (which I love) had to add buttons to lock on to enemies and to manuever the camera. I find anytime I'm trying to move the camera in a game or remember which button switches the focus of my attack to a different enemy I get pulled out of the experience and tend to have less fun. 3D still has a ways to go before this is a non-issue.

    Lindsay Lohan on
  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    mausmalone wrote: »
    GSM wrote: »
    I want somebody to make a heavilly stylized game, reminiscent of this cell phone games advertisement I saw some time ago. It used low-rez sprites with realistic high dynamic range lighting, and camera angles slightly-off-from-straight-on, creating a wonderfully weird world of extreme retro 2D and 3D modern effects and lighting.

    There's something about that aesthetic that I really like.

    edit: here it is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3QnvEgQOzQ

    Retro sprites and volumetric explosions with huge pixelated score numbers coming out of them? Yes please.

    OH MY GOD

    I need to bookmark that. Depth of field, shaky camera, realistic explosions ... This actually seems like a game I could make. I'm good at graphics programming, but I suck when it comes to actually making artistic assets for a game.

    Throw in some epic orchestrated music (I'm sure there's some public domain symphony stuff I can find) and classic "pew pew" shooting sounds and we may have a winner on our hands. :P

    Let me know if you actually start on something like this. I'd like to make a game with this style, but I don't have the proper coding experience to do it yet. Maybe if I work on learning some Open GL this summer...

    I think that what's so appealing about this style is that "it's like you remember it". The old-school graphics were simple and iconic, but this style tries to recreate the way low-rez sprites felt so real back then.

    GSM on
    We'll get back there someday.
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Let me just say that it was either Capcom or Namco who said that it costs two to three times as much to develop a good new 2D fighter than it does to develop a 3D one. Presumably, this is because of all of the artwork and frames of animation.


    That probably doesn't apply necessarily to platformers and such, but just because something looks awesome and is 3D that doesn't mean that an equivalent game in the genre in 2D cost less just because it is sprite-based.


    This is part of the reason why SNK and Capcom reused their sprites in their fighting games, instead of spending tons of money like Capcom did with SFIII.

    slash000 on
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    The world needs Klonoa 3, come to think of it.

    Xagarath on
  • Squirminator2kSquirminator2k they/them North Hollywood, CARegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Firebrand wrote: »
    Noray wrote: »
    . I wouldn't mind more beatiful 3d games on a 2d plane though.

    i always thought team17 should make a new Superfrog game

    Fixed.

    Run away with me.

    Squirminator2k on
    Jump Leads - a scifi-comedy audiodrama podcast
  • thepricetheprice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Speaking as a lapsed gamer who actually skipped a few consoles because 2-D games have been on vacation, I have had a really hard time getting into 3-D games. I remember thinking Mario 64 was a completely flawed experiment the first time I played it at a friend's house because I couldn't judge distance or angles for jumps and I spent all my time falling in holes because of it. I was reasonably good at 2-D platformers (my favorite genre) so I found it kind of annoying to suddenly suck at games because of a rogue dimension and I felt like most gamers would reject this kind of experience. They didn't, 2-D games went extinct on colsoles, and I played games on Nintendo handhelds occasionally (fewer than a dozen games from the 16-bit console era to present) but I mostly gave up gaming until the Wii. After a few hours with the virtual console I was thinking "why can't they still make a game that feels like this on a console! This worked!"

    I seriously got pretty annoyed that these old sprite-based games are so much more fun and intuitive to play than the newest versions of the Ninetndo franchises like Twilight Princess which, like most 3-D games, I find overly complex and frustrating for all the wrong reasons. I finished Twilight Princess, and the good definitely outweighed the bad, but except for using the remote to fish and aim (which was simple and fun), it was not a very intuitive gaming experience and it felt like a chore more than a game too often. On the other hand, the main game in Monkey Ball on Wii is the most fun 3-D game I have ever played. Tilt the controler, tap one button, and nothing else; the challenge comes from the level design and it's perfect. If it's got to be 3-D, how about they keep it this simple and intuitive more often? Now I know that a 3-D game with simple intuitive controls can be just as fun for me as a 2-D game, and I hope the Wii lives up to its potential for these kinds of games. If not, there's always the virtual console and that alone justifies the investment for me.

    theprice on
  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    wunderbar wrote: »
    for me, it does not matter how good the graphics are, and whether it's 2 or 3D, it's how fun the fucking game is. and that is the way it should be.

    What if the number of dimensions and quality of the graphics (shock, horror!) make the game more enjoyable for someone?

    Leitner on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    wunderbar wrote: »
    for me, it does not matter how good the graphics are, and whether it's 2 or 3D, it's how fun the fucking game is. and that is the way it should be.



    I love games no matter what type of game it is, 2D or 3D, if it's a good game.

    That doesn't mean that I only want to play 3D games, though. I like variety, and I like the types of games and genres available in the 2D format.



    I like variety, and it's a shame that the industry has moved away from a type of game just because it is 2D, or hell even 2D in nature. What if I enjoy 2D platformers, or 2D fighting games, or shmups? There are tons of great games in those genres, and I love the games in those genres if they are good games; not because they are simply 2D and of those genres. But the number of games of these types is dwindling.


    Thank God for the DS.

    slash000 on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Viewtiful Joe was a almost current gen 2D game, pretty fun too IMO. Also that Castle Crashers game for Live Arcade seems like a pretty good bet for a fun 2D Game. I hear good things about the Alien Hominid HD game also, but I'm having too much fun with my Metal Slug Anthology . Before those games I remembered loving Mischief Makers for N64 and thinking it was probably the last 2D consol game I'd ever play which made me really sad at the time.

    Burtletoy on
  • MashalotMashalot Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    theprice wrote: »
    snip
    Consider that mostly limed. When the N64 hit I spent some time on a friend's unit w/ Mario 64 and was like 'what? this looks and plays terrible'. I figured the next gen would be like affordable SNK+ 2D. Pretty fuckin disappointing. I think 3D is very suited for a lot of game types: fps', racing, stuff like that. I actually even hated SMRPG and DKC's visual style, despite the gameplay thought they looked like total ass.

    Eventually I bought a playstation once the PSone had been out for a bit. There was stuff I liked but basically every genre I was into in the 2D days I felt had suffered pretty badly, especially platformers and RPGs. I liked the system for the stuff you couldn't really do in 2D, survival horror for instance was new and cool, etc. but man. I mainly spent time seeking out the buried 2D gems.

    Later I got a gamecube as a gift, then bought a PS2, etc. I'm used to 3D now but still kind of resent it. Playing OOT or MM now, never having touched them in their heyday, is totally unappealing and I don't understand how people ever actually enjoyed them. Wind Waker I liked I guess. I still can't play 3D mario in any of its, um, 2 flavors. I'm not bad at them but they aren't fun for me, at all.

    I think it's because 3D adds too many variables, too much space. There's a pressure to have space, scale, etc. be more 'realistic' in 3D games and I feel this leads to the games seeming more drawn-out and plodding.

    Mashalot on
  • DHS OdiumDHS Odium Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Donkey Kong Jungle Beat.

    DHS Odium on
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  • thepricetheprice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Mashalot wrote: »
    I think it's because 3D adds too many variables, too much space. There's a pressure to have space, scale, etc. be more 'realistic' in 3D games and I feel this leads to the games seeming more drawn-out and plodding.

    Drawn out and plodding... yeah. I can agree with that completely for a lot of the 3-D games I could never get into. Now that they can make a vast 3-D game world that takes 50 hours or longer to get through, they feel like they should, and the pacing gets all screwed up because I can't really keep chugging along for 50 hours or more and not feel like they're just dragging the game out for the sake of dragging it out. That's one of the things that the old 2-D games had that new games often lack, solid pacing. The old 2-D games also had a zaniness that is no longer encouraged in this era of realism brought on by the advent of 3-D. Why can't I fight a room full of flying attack noses anymore? I just feel like games have lost a lot of the things that used to make them special since so much emphasis has been put on technology and realism in the 3-D era.

    theprice on
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