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The [Dragonball] Thread Comes Back Stronger After It's Closed

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Snowbear wrote: »
    What makes Goku exceptional? Like all Saiyans get stronger but what did he do that puts him on par with even gods

    I know part of this is just "He train real hard" but even other Saiyans like Vegeta can barely keep pace with similar/identical training

    He didn’t know he was a saiyan til he was an adult, so he has all the strength and none of the ego

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    GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    seems like as good a time as any to post this analysis

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Snowbear wrote: »
    What makes Goku exceptional? Like all Saiyans get stronger but what did he do that puts him on par with even gods

    I know part of this is just "He train real hard" but even other Saiyans like Vegeta can barely keep pace with similar/identical training

    Well, saiyan for one. But out of all of them, he's the only one with the raw drive to get stronger. Gohan never really wants to fight. And Vegeta has the perpetual rod stuck up his ass that'll always hold him back.

    In a way it's because he doesn't care. Gohan cares about life, and Vegeta only cares about beating Goku. Goku doesn't care about a damn thing... and apparently in this universe that's the secret to unlimited power.

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    You could probably make the argument that Goku having grown up training on earth instead of with saiyans gives him a fundamentally different perspective on how to use/train his strength that other saiyans don't have. Plus a wider variety of techniques because he's had a ton of different masters to train with and opponents to spar with as opposed to 'shouting at a mountain for a year to get stronger'.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Goku unlocks more strength by emptying his mind, which isn't too difficult for him because there isn't much going on up there in the first place.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    goku's just naturally talented and whatever the saiyans were doing to figure out babies' potential that screened him out as a weakling to be exiled was bullshit

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I don't even think the Saiyans were checking for potential, just what the power level was at birth. So while Goku's base stats are very low he's basically that one unit in Fire Emblem who is completely useless until he becomes a monster after leveling up enough.

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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    Oops! All Gokus

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    ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Snowbear wrote: »
    What makes Goku exceptional? Like all Saiyans get stronger but what did he do that puts him on par with even gods

    I know part of this is just "He train real hard" but even other Saiyans like Vegeta can barely keep pace with similar/identical training

    He is a buddhist Superman.

    I guess that makes Jiren his Shazam.

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    KupiKupi Registered User regular
    My guess is that while every Saiyan has the "their ki grows stronger if they almost die" quirk, very few other Saiyans are routinely placed in a situation that can activate it without actually dying. They're like Vegeta-- they will fight until it really actually kills them rather than retreat. Goku, meanwhile, has friends who will pull him out of trouble, throw him Senzu beans, resurrect him when he dies, and so on, not to mention that he's also been put up against a workable succession of increasingly powerful enemies. It's not his biology, it's his circumstances.

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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I could have sworn that it was something about him being pure hearted and being the legendary super saiyan before it quickly got retconned.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    The secret to his strongness is that he is an incredible idiot

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Goku continually tests himself against more and more powerful opponents, whereas most Saiyans attacked planets that were essentially helpless.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Goku continually tests himself against more and more powerful opponents, whereas most Saiyans attacked planets that were essentially helpless.

    And then Vegeta does manage to keep closing the gap by getting caught in those situations anyways. But he definitely doesn't seek them out the same way.

    Actually, if UI is a one-time deal for Goku, Vegeta may actually be stronger at the end of super (royal blue is presumably something he can hit again easily now)

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Vegeta wants to prove he's the strongest. Goku wants to get stronger.

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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Goku continually tests himself against more and more powerful opponents, whereas most Saiyans attacked planets that were essentially helpless.

    Fun note Earth was supposed to be one of those planets. But Earth had an extremely small amount of bonafide badasses.

    Hell if Grandpa Gohan wasn’t in that extreme minority baby Goku WOULD have wrecked the planet.

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    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Goku continually tests himself against more and more powerful opponents, whereas most Saiyans attacked planets that were essentially helpless.

    And then Vegeta does manage to keep closing the gap by getting caught in those situations anyways. But he definitely doesn't seek them out the same way.

    Actually, if UI is a one-time deal for Goku, Vegeta may actually be stronger at the end of super (royal blue is presumably something he can hit again easily now)

    Well, Goku has Blue+Kiaoken but Vegeta's Royal Blue mode is probably way more stable and easy to maintain.

    Also I thiiiiink they imply that Goku could go UI again but he can't just turn it on and off. Something actually has to push him to his absolute limits to trigger it.

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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Vegeta wants to prove he's the strongest. Goku wants to get stronger.

    Do we think Vegeta actually cares what other people think, or is it a self-image thing? because the idea of pride can skew either way

    Goku is definitely concerned entirely with himself at this point. Like he cares about saving the universe and shit but that's secondary to his self-improvement

    You could call that a kind of zen I guess

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Vegeta wants to prove he's the strongest. Goku wants to get stronger.

    Do we think Vegeta actually cares what other people think, or is it a self-image thing? because the idea of pride can skew either way

    Goku is definitely concerned entirely with himself at this point. Like he cares about saving the universe and shit but that's secondary to his self-improvement

    You could call that a kind of zen I guess
    Even at the end of the Cell saga Goku is like "all this bad stuff keeps happening because I am soooooooooooo strong!" Oh to be in Vegeta's head at that moment.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I just remembered to look in on it and DBZA has gone a year and nearly a month between episodes, and counting.

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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Goku continually tests himself against more and more powerful opponents, whereas most Saiyans attacked planets that were essentially helpless.

    And then Vegeta does manage to keep closing the gap by getting caught in those situations anyways. But he definitely doesn't seek them out the same way.

    Actually, if UI is a one-time deal for Goku, Vegeta may actually be stronger at the end of super (royal blue is presumably something he can hit again easily now)

    Well, Goku has Blue+Kiaoken but Vegeta's Royal Blue mode is probably way more stable and easy to maintain.

    Also I thiiiiink they imply that Goku could go UI again but he can't just turn it on and off. Something actually has to push him to his absolute limits to trigger it.

    SSJ was the same way though. Originally it wasn't something he could just turn on and off at will, it was triggered by rage.
    Then he trained for a bit and it became something he could turn on and off at will.
    Same thing with SSG, originally it had insane requirements that he had to meet to turn God. Then he trained for a bit and now does it to play baseball.
    Same thing with the Kaioken, originally it was a difficult technique that he could barely pull off when he needed it, then he trains a bit and now it's an added layer of polish to whatever he's doing.

    I'm pretty sure the same could be said for the kamehameha wave (it's been a while since I watched original DB, so I could be off on that one). It was originally a big trump card to be pulled out at the most dire of circumstances. Now it's pretty much his basic energy attack and if it fails he just does it again but louder.

    I'm just saying that it seems really unlikely that Goku would attain a new height of power once and just be cool saying "Yeah, that was nice. Think I'll be staying with the blue hair from now on though" and never look back. It seems more likely that he'd spend the next season finding some ludicrous new training regimen that allows him to get attain that level of power again and again until he can do it as easily as going super.

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    Blackbird SR-71CBlackbird SR-71C Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Vegeta wants to prove he's the strongest. Goku wants to get stronger.

    Do we think Vegeta actually cares what other people think, or is it a self-image thing? because the idea of pride can skew either way

    Goku is definitely concerned entirely with himself at this point. Like he cares about saving the universe and shit but that's secondary to his self-improvement

    You could call that a kind of zen I guess

    I think Vegeta's entire arc during the Tournament of Power was letting go of wanting to be the strongest. After a while his goal changes from "I want to prove I'm the strongest (and also save our universe in the process)" to "I want to win so I can fulfill my promise to Cabba an wish back their universe". That's when he manages to surpass his limits, achieve Royal Blue (Or Blue Evolved), beats Toppo and even manages to evade, hit and flatten Jiren before being beaten again (because he's still Vegeta, after all.). Though one could argue that without Vegeta distracting Jiren and sacrificing his energy to Goku the latter would never have had the time and energy to go Ultra Instinct again.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I just remembered to look in on it and DBZA has gone a year and nearly a month between episodes, and counting.

    Cell has been thinking about Goku the whole time.

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    BedigunzBedigunz Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I just remembered to look in on it and DBZA has gone a year and nearly a month between episodes, and counting.

    Cell has been punching Gohan in the face the whole time.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I LOVE the way that looks, goddamn

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I hope they've got more in mind than just "he's stronger than anyone before! stronger than Jiren!"

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    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    I LOVE the way that looks, goddamn

    yeah, the animation looks amazing

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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I hope they've got more in mind than just "he's stronger than anyone before! stronger than Jiren!"

    For all the talk of Toriyama doing a different thing, so far that just looks like Broly bein Broly

    I wonder if they'll take up time in the next series doing a recap version of this flick too

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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    this male Kale is real weird y'all. Toriyama's just being lazy and copying a cool character from DBS

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I hope they've got more in mind than just "he's stronger than anyone before! stronger than Jiren!"

    Frieza being involved already makes it more interesting, cause there must be more going on if he would give a shit about trying to stop it

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    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I hope they've got more in mind than just "he's stronger than anyone before! stronger than Jiren!"

    Frieza being involved already makes it more interesting, cause there must be more going on if he would give a shit about trying to stop it

    Considering his distaste for Saiyans, I doubt Frieza is crazy about even more super-powerful ones running around. At least with Goku, Frieza knows he can negotiate with him.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Broly seems a lot more like a cocky warrior prince this time around? The way he comes swaggering out of that ship munching on food, flanked by guards is very unlike old Broly

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    YukiraYukira Registered User regular
    I really want to see Broly vs Kale.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Kale murders Broly after he threatens her girlfriend.

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    YukiraYukira Registered User regular
    Yes, give me that.

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    IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know TexasRegistered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I hope they've got more in mind than just "he's stronger than anyone before! stronger than Jiren!"

    Frieza being involved already makes it more interesting, cause there must be more going on if he would give a shit about trying to stop it

    Considering his distaste for Saiyans, I doubt Frieza is crazy about even more super-powerful ones running around. At least with Goku, Frieza knows he can negotiate with him.

    I mean yea, but also it sounds less like he's on a race crusade and more like he's super into it.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I will accept whatever excuse necessary for more Frieza

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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Yeah....that looks gorgeous give me that forever.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Frieza wants to get stronger than Goku and Vegeta so he can kill them both.

    Vegeta wants to get stronger than Goku so he can be stronger than Goku.

    Goku wants to get stronger than he currently is so he is constantly getting stronger.

    Of course neither Frieza nor Vegeta will ever be able to catch up to Goku because first they must get halfway there, by which point Goku has already moved on. So they must get halfway to the next point, but he's moved on again. So they will never reach Goku's strength.

    Zen-Oh's Paradox.

    Madican on
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