What makes Goku exceptional? Like all Saiyans get stronger but what did he do that puts him on par with even gods
I know part of this is just "He train real hard" but even other Saiyans like Vegeta can barely keep pace with similar/identical training
Well, saiyan for one. But out of all of them, he's the only one with the raw drive to get stronger. Gohan never really wants to fight. And Vegeta has the perpetual rod stuck up his ass that'll always hold him back.
In a way it's because he doesn't care. Gohan cares about life, and Vegeta only cares about beating Goku. Goku doesn't care about a damn thing... and apparently in this universe that's the secret to unlimited power.
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You could probably make the argument that Goku having grown up training on earth instead of with saiyans gives him a fundamentally different perspective on how to use/train his strength that other saiyans don't have. Plus a wider variety of techniques because he's had a ton of different masters to train with and opponents to spar with as opposed to 'shouting at a mountain for a year to get stronger'.
goku's just naturally talented and whatever the saiyans were doing to figure out babies' potential that screened him out as a weakling to be exiled was bullshit
I don't even think the Saiyans were checking for potential, just what the power level was at birth. So while Goku's base stats are very low he's basically that one unit in Fire Emblem who is completely useless until he becomes a monster after leveling up enough.
My guess is that while every Saiyan has the "their ki grows stronger if they almost die" quirk, very few other Saiyans are routinely placed in a situation that can activate it without actually dying. They're like Vegeta-- they will fight until it really actually kills them rather than retreat. Goku, meanwhile, has friends who will pull him out of trouble, throw him Senzu beans, resurrect him when he dies, and so on, not to mention that he's also been put up against a workable succession of increasingly powerful enemies. It's not his biology, it's his circumstances.
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Goku continually tests himself against more and more powerful opponents, whereas most Saiyans attacked planets that were essentially helpless.
And then Vegeta does manage to keep closing the gap by getting caught in those situations anyways. But he definitely doesn't seek them out the same way.
Actually, if UI is a one-time deal for Goku, Vegeta may actually be stronger at the end of super (royal blue is presumably something he can hit again easily now)
Goku continually tests himself against more and more powerful opponents, whereas most Saiyans attacked planets that were essentially helpless.
And then Vegeta does manage to keep closing the gap by getting caught in those situations anyways. But he definitely doesn't seek them out the same way.
Actually, if UI is a one-time deal for Goku, Vegeta may actually be stronger at the end of super (royal blue is presumably something he can hit again easily now)
Well, Goku has Blue+Kiaoken but Vegeta's Royal Blue mode is probably way more stable and easy to maintain.
Also I thiiiiink they imply that Goku could go UI again but he can't just turn it on and off. Something actually has to push him to his absolute limits to trigger it.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
Vegeta wants to prove he's the strongest. Goku wants to get stronger.
Do we think Vegeta actually cares what other people think, or is it a self-image thing? because the idea of pride can skew either way
Goku is definitely concerned entirely with himself at this point. Like he cares about saving the universe and shit but that's secondary to his self-improvement
Vegeta wants to prove he's the strongest. Goku wants to get stronger.
Do we think Vegeta actually cares what other people think, or is it a self-image thing? because the idea of pride can skew either way
Goku is definitely concerned entirely with himself at this point. Like he cares about saving the universe and shit but that's secondary to his self-improvement
You could call that a kind of zen I guess
Even at the end of the Cell saga Goku is like "all this bad stuff keeps happening because I am soooooooooooo strong!" Oh to be in Vegeta's head at that moment.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I just remembered to look in on it and DBZA has gone a year and nearly a month between episodes, and counting.
Goku continually tests himself against more and more powerful opponents, whereas most Saiyans attacked planets that were essentially helpless.
And then Vegeta does manage to keep closing the gap by getting caught in those situations anyways. But he definitely doesn't seek them out the same way.
Actually, if UI is a one-time deal for Goku, Vegeta may actually be stronger at the end of super (royal blue is presumably something he can hit again easily now)
Well, Goku has Blue+Kiaoken but Vegeta's Royal Blue mode is probably way more stable and easy to maintain.
Also I thiiiiink they imply that Goku could go UI again but he can't just turn it on and off. Something actually has to push him to his absolute limits to trigger it.
SSJ was the same way though. Originally it wasn't something he could just turn on and off at will, it was triggered by rage.
Then he trained for a bit and it became something he could turn on and off at will.
Same thing with SSG, originally it had insane requirements that he had to meet to turn God. Then he trained for a bit and now does it to play baseball.
Same thing with the Kaioken, originally it was a difficult technique that he could barely pull off when he needed it, then he trains a bit and now it's an added layer of polish to whatever he's doing.
I'm pretty sure the same could be said for the kamehameha wave (it's been a while since I watched original DB, so I could be off on that one). It was originally a big trump card to be pulled out at the most dire of circumstances. Now it's pretty much his basic energy attack and if it fails he just does it again but louder.
I'm just saying that it seems really unlikely that Goku would attain a new height of power once and just be cool saying "Yeah, that was nice. Think I'll be staying with the blue hair from now on though" and never look back. It seems more likely that he'd spend the next season finding some ludicrous new training regimen that allows him to get attain that level of power again and again until he can do it as easily as going super.
Vegeta wants to prove he's the strongest. Goku wants to get stronger.
Do we think Vegeta actually cares what other people think, or is it a self-image thing? because the idea of pride can skew either way
Goku is definitely concerned entirely with himself at this point. Like he cares about saving the universe and shit but that's secondary to his self-improvement
You could call that a kind of zen I guess
I think Vegeta's entire arc during the Tournament of Power was letting go of wanting to be the strongest. After a while his goal changes from "I want to prove I'm the strongest (and also save our universe in the process)" to "I want to win so I can fulfill my promise to Cabba an wish back their universe". That's when he manages to surpass his limits, achieve Royal Blue (Or Blue Evolved), beats Toppo and even manages to evade, hit and flatten Jiren before being beaten again (because he's still Vegeta, after all.). Though one could argue that without Vegeta distracting Jiren and sacrificing his energy to Goku the latter would never have had the time and energy to go Ultra Instinct again.
I hope they've got more in mind than just "he's stronger than anyone before! stronger than Jiren!"
Frieza being involved already makes it more interesting, cause there must be more going on if he would give a shit about trying to stop it
Considering his distaste for Saiyans, I doubt Frieza is crazy about even more super-powerful ones running around. At least with Goku, Frieza knows he can negotiate with him.
Broly seems a lot more like a cocky warrior prince this time around? The way he comes swaggering out of that ship munching on food, flanked by guards is very unlike old Broly
I hope they've got more in mind than just "he's stronger than anyone before! stronger than Jiren!"
Frieza being involved already makes it more interesting, cause there must be more going on if he would give a shit about trying to stop it
Considering his distaste for Saiyans, I doubt Frieza is crazy about even more super-powerful ones running around. At least with Goku, Frieza knows he can negotiate with him.
I mean yea, but also it sounds less like he's on a race crusade and more like he's super into it.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I will accept whatever excuse necessary for more Frieza
Frieza wants to get stronger than Goku and Vegeta so he can kill them both.
Vegeta wants to get stronger than Goku so he can be stronger than Goku.
Goku wants to get stronger than he currently is so he is constantly getting stronger.
Of course neither Frieza nor Vegeta will ever be able to catch up to Goku because first they must get halfway there, by which point Goku has already moved on. So they must get halfway to the next point, but he's moved on again. So they will never reach Goku's strength.
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He didn’t know he was a saiyan til he was an adult, so he has all the strength and none of the ego
Well, saiyan for one. But out of all of them, he's the only one with the raw drive to get stronger. Gohan never really wants to fight. And Vegeta has the perpetual rod stuck up his ass that'll always hold him back.
In a way it's because he doesn't care. Gohan cares about life, and Vegeta only cares about beating Goku. Goku doesn't care about a damn thing... and apparently in this universe that's the secret to unlimited power.
He is a buddhist Superman.
I guess that makes Jiren his Shazam.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
And then Vegeta does manage to keep closing the gap by getting caught in those situations anyways. But he definitely doesn't seek them out the same way.
Actually, if UI is a one-time deal for Goku, Vegeta may actually be stronger at the end of super (royal blue is presumably something he can hit again easily now)
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Fun note Earth was supposed to be one of those planets. But Earth had an extremely small amount of bonafide badasses.
Hell if Grandpa Gohan wasn’t in that extreme minority baby Goku WOULD have wrecked the planet.
Well, Goku has Blue+Kiaoken but Vegeta's Royal Blue mode is probably way more stable and easy to maintain.
Also I thiiiiink they imply that Goku could go UI again but he can't just turn it on and off. Something actually has to push him to his absolute limits to trigger it.
Do we think Vegeta actually cares what other people think, or is it a self-image thing? because the idea of pride can skew either way
Goku is definitely concerned entirely with himself at this point. Like he cares about saving the universe and shit but that's secondary to his self-improvement
You could call that a kind of zen I guess
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SSJ was the same way though. Originally it wasn't something he could just turn on and off at will, it was triggered by rage.
Then he trained for a bit and it became something he could turn on and off at will.
Same thing with SSG, originally it had insane requirements that he had to meet to turn God. Then he trained for a bit and now does it to play baseball.
Same thing with the Kaioken, originally it was a difficult technique that he could barely pull off when he needed it, then he trains a bit and now it's an added layer of polish to whatever he's doing.
I'm pretty sure the same could be said for the kamehameha wave (it's been a while since I watched original DB, so I could be off on that one). It was originally a big trump card to be pulled out at the most dire of circumstances. Now it's pretty much his basic energy attack and if it fails he just does it again but louder.
I'm just saying that it seems really unlikely that Goku would attain a new height of power once and just be cool saying "Yeah, that was nice. Think I'll be staying with the blue hair from now on though" and never look back. It seems more likely that he'd spend the next season finding some ludicrous new training regimen that allows him to get attain that level of power again and again until he can do it as easily as going super.
I think Vegeta's entire arc during the Tournament of Power was letting go of wanting to be the strongest. After a while his goal changes from "I want to prove I'm the strongest (and also save our universe in the process)" to "I want to win so I can fulfill my promise to Cabba an wish back their universe". That's when he manages to surpass his limits, achieve Royal Blue (Or Blue Evolved), beats Toppo and even manages to evade, hit and flatten Jiren before being beaten again (because he's still Vegeta, after all.). Though one could argue that without Vegeta distracting Jiren and sacrificing his energy to Goku the latter would never have had the time and energy to go Ultra Instinct again.
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Cell has been thinking about Goku the whole time.
Coran Attack!
yeah, the animation looks amazing
For all the talk of Toriyama doing a different thing, so far that just looks like Broly bein Broly
I wonder if they'll take up time in the next series doing a recap version of this flick too
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Frieza being involved already makes it more interesting, cause there must be more going on if he would give a shit about trying to stop it
Considering his distaste for Saiyans, I doubt Frieza is crazy about even more super-powerful ones running around. At least with Goku, Frieza knows he can negotiate with him.
I mean yea, but also it sounds less like he's on a race crusade and more like he's super into it.
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Vegeta wants to get stronger than Goku so he can be stronger than Goku.
Goku wants to get stronger than he currently is so he is constantly getting stronger.
Of course neither Frieza nor Vegeta will ever be able to catch up to Goku because first they must get halfway there, by which point Goku has already moved on. So they must get halfway to the next point, but he's moved on again. So they will never reach Goku's strength.
Zen-Oh's Paradox.