It's funny that he says running through the woods killing enemies to collect 8 things and put into a bigger thing isn't Zelda.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I always thought it was assumed everyone in those movies were awful.
And yeah, it was just kids being idiots. LOTS of teenagers are idiots. We like to pretend like they aren't. But they are. I am almost certain every single person here has said or done something 20 years ago that they would be given a stern berating online for if brought up today.
Does that excuse it? Hell no. But that is kind of the point of some movies. Just to show or do things that you really should NEVER see or do in normal life.
Though granted even if most teenagers tend to do lots of stupid shit, society back when AP 1 was made pretty much encouraged even worse "antics" back then.
I liked the movie when I saw it. I would likely still laugh at it now. I would never condone most of the shit they do in it. Just like how I wouldn't condone half the shit I see in horror or action movies. I dunno why it is so obvious when killing is involved its just a case of "this is not ok" but not the other things though.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited May 2019
I don’t think it can be assumed all folks know it’s wrong. We’ve also been demonizing nazis for decades and they’re still around.
Also killing is more obvious in that it’s bad because death when violating people’s privacy is not clear cut to some that it’s not cool. It’s like gamers (TM) trying to make the n-word or f** a “gamer word” that they’ll use and even when it is brought up try to justify it because of course they’re not actually racist or homophobic. They’ll try to dig wriggle room and dismiss concerns.
Also once again, criticizing the movie, or really in this case calling out a specific action in the movie in a vacuum to the rest of it, is not automatically casting a side-eye at people who like the movie.
I don’t think it can be assumed all folks know it’s wrong. We’ve also been demonizing nazis for decades and they’re still around.
Also killing is more obvious in that it’s bad because death when violating people’s privacy is not clear cut to some that it’s not cool. It’s like gamers (TM) trying to make the n-word or f** a “gamer word” that they’ll use and even when it is brought up try to justify it because of course they’re not actually racist or homophobic. They’ll try to dig wriggle room and dismiss concerns.
Also once again, criticizing the movie, or really in this case calling out a specific action in the movie in a vacuum to the rest of it, is not automatically casting a side-eye at people who like the movie.
Oh I cast a side-eye at them, but more so for their tastes in movies :-p
I honestly don't understand what you people are trying to say. That movie is not a documentary, someone decided it was fun to put that scene in. Even if the movie is supposed to be garbage, how does that make any difference to how gross that scene is? Case in point, Dan said it was hilarious and got angry when Arin pointed out that the scene is gross.
The movie being gross on purpose doesn't excuse it or make it less gross.
I honestly don't understand what you people are trying to say. That movie is not a documentary, someone decided it was fun to put that scene in. Even if the movie is supposed to be garbage, how does that make any difference to how gross that scene is? Case in point, Dan said it was hilarious and got angry when Arin pointed out that the scene is gross.
The movie being gross on purpose doesn't excuse it or make it less gross.
I mean... How do you feel about It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? Or Seinfeld? Most of the people in Seinfeld are scumbags if you think about it.
Idk I don't think that's a fair comparison. Sunny and Seinfield are satire, American Pie is for horny teens who can't legally buy porn. It was a bad movie then and a bad movie now, just it's aged pretty badly considering *gestures at modern earth*
I think it's fine to take Danny to task for this one, although I'm once again just tired of outrage culture and think there's better ways to spend our time than publicly shaming our favorite people all the time
Idk I don't think that's a fair comparison. Sunny and Seinfield are satire, American Pie is for horny teens who can't legally buy porn. It was a bad movie then and a bad movie now, just it's aged pretty badly considering *gestures at modern earth*
I think it's fine to take Danny to task for this one, although I'm once again just tired of outrage culture and think there's better ways to spend our time than publicly shaming our favorite people all the time
Hmm, point taken. I think it's also entirely possible Danny hasn't actually thought about that scene since he saw it in the theaters when he was a horny teenager. No one's excusing the movie because it's absolutely fucking awful. I'm also glad these types of movies don't seem to be getting mainstream appeal anymore.
I dunno. I haven't listened to the video where it shows up.
You can enjoy a movie and still acknowledge that problematic stuff in it is bad. But lots of people, Dan included apparently, can watch a gross-out teen movie and when someone says "filming and broadcasting sex without the consent or knowledge from the other party is bad actually" and say no it's funny.
I still don't get what Urahonky means. Yeah, those people are horrible. Filming sex without consent is still gross.
Taya pretty much summed up what I'm trying to say.
I still don't get what Urahonky means. Yeah, those people are horrible. Filming sex without consent is still gross.
Taya pretty much summed up what I'm trying to say.
Rather than trying to explain myself a third time I will just say that the movies are awful and probably the worst type of cinema imaginable. I'm not going to try and expend any more energy about them.
Dan's humor is driven by basically acting like a horny teen boy so it's no surprise that a movie targeted towards that very specifically would be right up his alley.
There was also a very slight dash of "[filming her without her knowledge] is ok because she's an exhibitionist"
I still like Dan a whole lot but I hope he has some further thought about what Arin's problem with it was once they stopped recording and could turn off a bit.
While I don't connect with the American Pie movie stuff since I was 23 when it came out, my parallel movie experience was from Revenge of the Nerds (1984 when I was 8). At the time, it was just a bad comedy that had some T&A to get the horny teens in. If you've never seen it, at the of the movie the main nerd sleeps with the cheerleader girl who was dating the captain of the football team (man, tropes much?). But he does so by wearing the costume her football boyfriend was wearing and didn't take his mask off until they were done.
The whole scene is played off by her saying, "Hey! You're that nerd! But you're so good though." Umm...like that was rape. Being 8 at the time, I didn't understand rape, consent, or anything like that. I was just watching a goofball comedy, mainly because I was told not too.
While American Pie's scene wasn't rape, it was still a gross invasion of privacy for the girl. And worse, it may have set into the minds of kids, pre-teens, or teenagers that doing this sort of thing was okay because it was hot or funny. That is the worst part about the whole thing.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I still don't get what Urahonky means. Yeah, those people are horrible. Filming sex without consent is still gross.
Taya pretty much summed up what I'm trying to say.
Something can be funny and wrong at the same time because it is fiction.
Just like something can be entertaining and unacceptably violent at the same time because it is fiction.
The thing you don't understand is that both sides can be right.
The movie was not softcore porn. It was teenage high school comedy done at the height of that type of movies popularity.
IMO the issue I always have with this is the assumed intent. Someone finding it funny does not mean they think it is ok or even condone it. They accept that what they are seeing is fake, then find where the humor might be because the fake movie portrayed a fake outcome where everyone just casually got over it and it worked out.
Not every story is a documentary. Not everything you see or read is supposed to be treated as if it actually happened. Someone seeing something in a movie is not the same as someone seeing something actually happening.
Again, I still think it is gross, and Dan's defense pretty much went too far. I still think he was meaning to imply one thing but came off as actually saying another though. Dan is too understanding to genuinely think that the situation itself is not gross.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I honestly don't understand what you people are trying to say. That movie is not a documentary, someone decided it was fun to put that scene in. Even if the movie is supposed to be garbage, how does that make any difference to how gross that scene is? Case in point, Dan said it was hilarious and got angry when Arin pointed out that the scene is gross.
The movie being gross on purpose doesn't excuse it or make it less gross.
I mean... How do you feel about It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? Or Seinfeld? Most of the people in Seinfeld are scumbags if you think about it.
They are scumbags and the shows absolutely frame them and the things they do as wrong.
In American Pie that scene is not framed up as the guys doing something wrong. It's framed as them doing something awesome and good, and only becomes "wrong" by way of failure to capitalize on it further in a gross macho way.
I'd be happy to never hear the words "American Pie" in my life again, honestly. I can't believe how many they ended up making.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Stiffler is portrayed as horrible, Jim and the others are meant to be relatable in some way. It's why most of them get happy endings with girls who like them. It is not AT ALL an It's Always Sunny type movie. Which makes Jim's transgression worse, since he's the relatable hero guy. The Revenge of the Nerds example above was a good one, same deal. The Nerds were unambiguously the good guys... and one of them does a rape.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
It's gonna be hard for Arin and Danny to top Ross and Barry when it comes to Undertale.
While I don't connect with the American Pie movie stuff since I was 23 when it came out, my parallel movie experience was from Revenge of the Nerds (1984 when I was 8). At the time, it was just a bad comedy that had some T&A to get the horny teens in. If you've never seen it, at the of the movie the main nerd sleeps with the cheerleader girl who was dating the captain of the football team (man, tropes much?). But he does so by wearing the costume her football boyfriend was wearing and didn't take his mask off until they were done.
The whole scene is played off by her saying, "Hey! You're that nerd! But you're so good though." Umm...like that was rape. Being 8 at the time, I didn't understand rape, consent, or anything like that. I was just watching a goofball comedy, mainly because I was told not too.
While American Pie's scene wasn't rape, it was still a gross invasion of privacy for the girl. And worse, it may have set into the minds of kids, pre-teens, or teenagers that doing this sort of thing was okay because it was hot or funny. That is the worst part about the whole thing.
Take heart that Revenge of the Nerds also had that invasion of privacy as well what with the installing cameras, taking nude pictures, and then selling them with whipped cream (but that's my pi).
Hard to fathom why every time someone tries to remake that movie it gets shot down damn near immediately. Although it did have 3 sequels somehow.
Stiffler is portrayed as horrible, Jim and the others are meant to be relatable in some way. It's why most of them get happy endings with girls who like them. It is not AT ALL an It's Always Sunny type movie. Which makes Jim's transgression worse, since he's the relatable hero guy. The Revenge of the Nerds example above was a good one, same deal. The Nerds were unambiguously the good guys... and one of them does a rape.
That's interesting because my takeaway from that movie, even as a horny teenager, was that they all suck and it was meant that way.
Yeah I guess we all agree, mostly. My "complaint" was about Danny trying to defend the scene and talking about "SJW'ing", the movie in itself is secondary.
I just watched the new One Minute Power Hour and wondered... Who edits that show? I always assumed it was Matt and Ryan but maybe it's Tucker now? Maybe it's always been? I'm confused now
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited May 2019
Thing I've been seeing recently is that people have been deflecting other youtuber's shitty actions and words by bringing up how Arin used to say the N-word. Specifically for his "SJW"ness and whenever people talk about Pewdiepie's behavior. Like of course it was shitty but apparently he apologized two years ago, and unlike Felix hasn't kept courting reactionaries, assholes, and the alt-right (tautology!) since then and only stopped when his name was associated with two shootings. If anything the "SWiJ" outlook he has been building over the years has shown he has been actually changing his behavior and the fact he doesn't just say it's just jokes and all this dismissive chicanery.
Do they think they've found a James Gunn type to shit on even when the person they've found has clearly changed?
Thing I've been seeing recently is that people have been deflecting other youtuber's shitty actions and words by bringing up how Arin used to say the N-word. Specifically for his "SJW"ness and whenever people talk about Pewdiepie's behavior. Like of course it was shitty but apparently he apologized two years ago, and unlike Felix hasn't kept courting reactionaries, assholes, and the alt-right (tautology!) since then and only stopped when his name was associated with two shootings. If anything the "SWiJ" outlook he has been building over the years has shown he has been actually changing his behavior and the fact he doesn't just say it's just jokes and all this dismissive chicanery.
Do they think they've found a James Gunn type to shit on even when the person they've found has clearly changed?
Arin bothers to learn new behavior, they can fuck right off. I'm sick of bad faith actors getting the fucking narrative because they found someone who wasn't an SJW at birth.
Yeah I guess we all agree, mostly. My "complaint" was about Danny trying to defend the scene and talking about "SJW'ing", the movie in itself is secondary.
Yeah there really is no defense for dropping the term sjw nowadays. Can’t imagine dans thought process on that one
Dan's never struck me as woke. Like, never. He's a sweet guy, and he has lots of good opinions about people, but it would not surprise me if Arin regularly tries getting Dan more woke and Dan isn't having it. Dan tends to not address his behavior until people lash out, which is unfortunate, because you get some of his apologies to folks who don't deserve one.
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What fog?
It's funny that he says running through the woods killing enemies to collect 8 things and put into a bigger thing isn't Zelda.
And yeah, it was just kids being idiots. LOTS of teenagers are idiots. We like to pretend like they aren't. But they are. I am almost certain every single person here has said or done something 20 years ago that they would be given a stern berating online for if brought up today.
Does that excuse it? Hell no. But that is kind of the point of some movies. Just to show or do things that you really should NEVER see or do in normal life.
Though granted even if most teenagers tend to do lots of stupid shit, society back when AP 1 was made pretty much encouraged even worse "antics" back then.
I liked the movie when I saw it. I would likely still laugh at it now. I would never condone most of the shit they do in it. Just like how I wouldn't condone half the shit I see in horror or action movies. I dunno why it is so obvious when killing is involved its just a case of "this is not ok" but not the other things though.
Also killing is more obvious in that it’s bad because death when violating people’s privacy is not clear cut to some that it’s not cool. It’s like gamers (TM) trying to make the n-word or f** a “gamer word” that they’ll use and even when it is brought up try to justify it because of course they’re not actually racist or homophobic. They’ll try to dig wriggle room and dismiss concerns.
Also once again, criticizing the movie, or really in this case calling out a specific action in the movie in a vacuum to the rest of it, is not automatically casting a side-eye at people who like the movie.
Oh I cast a side-eye at them, but more so for their tastes in movies :-p
The movie being gross on purpose doesn't excuse it or make it less gross.
I mean... How do you feel about It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? Or Seinfeld? Most of the people in Seinfeld are scumbags if you think about it.
I think it's fine to take Danny to task for this one, although I'm once again just tired of outrage culture and think there's better ways to spend our time than publicly shaming our favorite people all the time
Hmm, point taken. I think it's also entirely possible Danny hasn't actually thought about that scene since he saw it in the theaters when he was a horny teenager. No one's excusing the movie because it's absolutely fucking awful. I'm also glad these types of movies don't seem to be getting mainstream appeal anymore.
I dunno. I haven't listened to the video where it shows up.
It's kind of gross.
Taya pretty much summed up what I'm trying to say.
Rather than trying to explain myself a third time I will just say that the movies are awful and probably the worst type of cinema imaginable. I'm not going to try and expend any more energy about them.
I still like Dan a whole lot but I hope he has some further thought about what Arin's problem with it was once they stopped recording and could turn off a bit.
The whole scene is played off by her saying, "Hey! You're that nerd! But you're so good though." Umm...like that was rape. Being 8 at the time, I didn't understand rape, consent, or anything like that. I was just watching a goofball comedy, mainly because I was told not too.
While American Pie's scene wasn't rape, it was still a gross invasion of privacy for the girl. And worse, it may have set into the minds of kids, pre-teens, or teenagers that doing this sort of thing was okay because it was hot or funny. That is the worst part about the whole thing.
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Something can be funny and wrong at the same time because it is fiction.
Just like something can be entertaining and unacceptably violent at the same time because it is fiction.
The thing you don't understand is that both sides can be right.
The movie was not softcore porn. It was teenage high school comedy done at the height of that type of movies popularity.
IMO the issue I always have with this is the assumed intent. Someone finding it funny does not mean they think it is ok or even condone it. They accept that what they are seeing is fake, then find where the humor might be because the fake movie portrayed a fake outcome where everyone just casually got over it and it worked out.
Not every story is a documentary. Not everything you see or read is supposed to be treated as if it actually happened. Someone seeing something in a movie is not the same as someone seeing something actually happening.
Again, I still think it is gross, and Dan's defense pretty much went too far. I still think he was meaning to imply one thing but came off as actually saying another though. Dan is too understanding to genuinely think that the situation itself is not gross.
In American Pie that scene is not framed up as the guys doing something wrong. It's framed as them doing something awesome and good, and only becomes "wrong" by way of failure to capitalize on it further in a gross macho way.
Bye bye miss American Pie
I'll see you in hell!
Tara Reid is pushing hard for a 5th film that is fairly likely to become a thing.
Oh snap
Take heart that Revenge of the Nerds also had that invasion of privacy as well what with the installing cameras, taking nude pictures, and then selling them with whipped cream (but that's my pi).
Hard to fathom why every time someone tries to remake that movie it gets shot down damn near immediately. Although it did have 3 sequels somehow.
That's interesting because my takeaway from that movie, even as a horny teenager, was that they all suck and it was meant that way.
Well the comment section on this upload is going to be unreadable
Do they think they've found a James Gunn type to shit on even when the person they've found has clearly changed?
Arin bothers to learn new behavior, they can fuck right off. I'm sick of bad faith actors getting the fucking narrative because they found someone who wasn't an SJW at birth.
Yeah there really is no defense for dropping the term sjw nowadays. Can’t imagine dans thought process on that one