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Penny Arcade - Comic - The Rub To Race Ratio

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited March 28 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - Comic - The Rub To Race Ratio

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here


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Posts

  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    I mean, they did not call it Sea of Hello Kitty.

    Just sayin'.

    zepherinDjiem
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    There is such a thing as griefing:

    Landing in a random crew and throwing their shit overboard, dropping the anchor for no reason, shooting all their cannonballs away, etc.

    Attacking other players and stealing their loot, however, is not griefing, and never will be.

    zepherinSkull2185Element BrianZilla360A Dabble Of TheloniusH3KnucklesLeon2309
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Apparently Tycho has never pinned a 7 year old into a corner in Bumper cars just after they spent their last dollar.

    ...or has he?

    RingoLeon2309
  • Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    Is shoving your treasure map into everyone's faces while they're trying to do actual pirate work considered griefing?

    H3Knucklesgekkobear
  • rcattrcatt Registered User regular
    I think the line between Piracy and Griefing is if your target actually possesses any real loot to take and then, once realizing that they have nothing, do you keep killing them?

    H3KnucklesLeon2309
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Voluntary PVP is never griefing. If you don't want to PVP, don't play a PVP game or play on PVP servers, depending on the game.

    Griefing is when a player does something to intentionally ruin the experience of another player.

    Griefing is taking your baby into a movie theater.

    homogenizedDemonStaceyDjiemRingoKamarzepherinQuidMan in the MistsH3KnucklesSmrtnikCambiataOverkillengine
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited March 28
    Griefing is putting a game up on Game Pass for Day One, but then throwing in some preorder exclusive items so that even if people have Game Pass they have to make a $60 decision if they want those preorder exclusive items or not

    Wait...

    Drez on
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding the game, but you seem to get queued into a random group of teammates unless you party queue. So the line between griefing and piracy seems pretty clear. Screwing your team is griefing, screwing other teams is piracy. Right? Unless the game somehow rewards or incorporates switching teams or hurting your own team, this seems like basic Pirate Code stuff (not to be confused with BASIC Pirate Code).

    Unless the game makes it impossible to log out and relog in a new location, anything done to an enemy team seems fair game to me.

    H3Knuckles
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Voluntary PVP is never griefing. If you don't want to PVP, don't play a PVP game or play on PVP servers, depending on the game.

    Griefing is when a player does something to intentionally ruin the experience of another player.

    Griefing is taking your baby into a movie theater.

    You were doing so well up until the end. Taking your baby theater isn't doing something to intentionally ruin the experience of another player. It's simply not giving a damn whether or not it ruins their experience, so that you can have your experience.

    Griefing is taking your baby into a movie theater and chucking the dirty diaper up a few rows.

    H3Knuckles
  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    There's sea, and thieves, and.... not much else unfortunately..

    It's No Man's Sea. Basically.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Yeah, the reviews I've read all kinda say the same thing. It's a very good skeleton framework to build a game on, but right now it's very barebones. It needs another 1 or 2 years of patches, feature releases, and content additions to really make it feel like a full game.

  • Kuari999Kuari999 Registered User regular
    edited March 28
    Djiem wrote: »
    There is such a thing as griefing:

    Landing in a random crew and throwing their shit overboard, dropping the anchor for no reason, shooting all their cannonballs away, etc.

    Attacking other players and stealing their loot, however, is not griefing, and never will be.

    I'd say even that depends. If you're constantly killing the same people on purpose (spawn camping) I'd qualify that as griefing. The spawn system is definitely one they need to fix up a bit.
    jwalk wrote: »
    There's sea, and thieves, and.... not much else unfortunately..

    It's No Man's Sea. Basically.

    Nah, Sea of Thieves never really promised more than what there was and at least you can interact with people turning it at least into a reasonable party game. You can't even get THAT much out of No Man's Sky.

    Kuari999 on
  • Jacob SingerJacob Singer Registered User regular
    Our crew has been having a blast playing SoT, and don't really see where all this missing "content" is supposed to be. You very much make and tell your own stories within the game. Some of our adventures read like fun pirate short-stories.

    I'd take this "bare-bones" content over yet another variation of a boring battle royale game any day of the week.

    Djiem
  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Our crew has been having a blast playing SoT, and don't really see where all this missing "content" is supposed to be. You very much make and tell your own stories within the game. Some of our adventures read like fun pirate short-stories.

    I'd take this "bare-bones" content over yet another variation of a boring battle royale game any day of the week.

    Yeah, I find it head-scratching to read posts about reading reviews saying there isn't content. It's like playing a sports video game (or, hey, even something like a Quidditch one) and saying there isn't content because all it does is let you play a match. Or SNES Bomberman. All this missing content probably won't matter very much to you if you like the basic loop. I know I didn't imagine watching Jerry, Mike and his family playing and having a blast doing the same basic tasks over and over.

    Moridin889Djiem
  • Kuari999Kuari999 Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Our crew has been having a blast playing SoT, and don't really see where all this missing "content" is supposed to be. You very much make and tell your own stories within the game. Some of our adventures read like fun pirate short-stories.

    I'd take this "bare-bones" content over yet another variation of a boring battle royale game any day of the week.

    Yeah, I find it head-scratching to read posts about reading reviews saying there isn't content. It's like playing a sports video game (or, hey, even something like a Quidditch one) and saying there isn't content because all it does is let you play a match. Or SNES Bomberman. All this missing content probably won't matter very much to you if you like the basic loop. I know I didn't imagine watching Jerry, Mike and his family playing and having a blast doing the same basic tasks over and over.

    I find it a little less head-scratching due to the full $60 price when while yes, I do find its idea more enjoyable than some because of the multiplayer content, I'm aware of games with much more content that cost less. I don't think this should affect review scores but I do see it as a reasonable factor for if one should buy the game over another. I mean, I know I for example would rather play Don't Starve Together rather than this due to the content but very different game which is probably the main thing this has going for it. How many actual good multiplayer Pirate games are out there these days? (seriously, someone needs to do a game like Sea of Thieves except with some inspiration from Pirates! Gold content.)

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Haven't played it, but my understanding is that what people are claiming is missing is basically two things - a more robust progression system (i.e. rewards and upgrades/skills to work towards, goals to earn, etc), and the other is pre-generated content, as in missions, and story/campaign type stuff.

    My understanding (having never played it) is that this game is very much a sandbox where you drop in and you have a whole world to work with, and not much structure or framework to it. You do what you want to do, and play how you want to play, and there isn't necessarily a carrot on a stick dangling in front of you to keep your interest. You have to find your own things to keep your interest.

    An analogy that might fit (based on me never having played this game). I imagine it's the difference between buying a LEGO kit, with a set of instructions that tell you how to build some super badass castle that looks very intentionally/professionally designed when you're done with it versus getting a big rubber bin of loose pieces and being expected to just use your imagination to build whatever you want with what you are given.

    One is a guided experience with a tangible end-result. The other is a self-made experience with a result that cannot be easily gauged on any sort of scale, other than personal satisfaction.

    Djiem
  • Jgr9Jgr9 Registered User new member
    Or like playing TF2 and being a Friendly.

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Kuari999 wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    Our crew has been having a blast playing SoT, and don't really see where all this missing "content" is supposed to be. You very much make and tell your own stories within the game. Some of our adventures read like fun pirate short-stories.

    I'd take this "bare-bones" content over yet another variation of a boring battle royale game any day of the week.

    Yeah, I find it head-scratching to read posts about reading reviews saying there isn't content. It's like playing a sports video game (or, hey, even something like a Quidditch one) and saying there isn't content because all it does is let you play a match. Or SNES Bomberman. All this missing content probably won't matter very much to you if you like the basic loop. I know I didn't imagine watching Jerry, Mike and his family playing and having a blast doing the same basic tasks over and over.

    I find it a little less head-scratching due to the full $60 price when while yes, I do find its idea more enjoyable than some because of the multiplayer content, I'm aware of games with much more content that cost less. I don't think this should affect review scores but I do see it as a reasonable factor for if one should buy the game over another. I mean, I know I for example would rather play Don't Starve Together rather than this due to the content but very different game which is probably the main thing this has going for it. How many actual good multiplayer Pirate games are out there these days? (seriously, someone needs to do a game like Sea of Thieves except with some inspiration from Pirates! Gold content.)

    It's tough to do a good pirate game because there are so many ideas important to the setting. It usually starts with open world or at least open exploration which can be a big hurdle from the get go. Then you need a melee system, ranged combat systems for at least naval battles but ideally also boarding actions, systems for non-pirate ships so there are actual targets to pirate, and because merchant ships to prey on need a reason to exist some economic sim has to be underneath that. It's a lot going on and even one part missing can be noticeable. I enjoyed Black Flag more than other AC games but it felt lacking as a pirate game at times due to a lack of merchant ships to plunder for meaningful loot.

    And that's just the mechanical bits. There's still the issue of gameplay experience and the pirate fantasy can mean very different things to different people. For a lot of people it's the idea of cutting ties to your old responsibilities and cares and going where the seas and opportunity take you. For others it's the opportunity to go nuts with no fear from authority figures. The latter are the types more likely to enjoy what Sea of Thieves seems to be right now while the people hoping for a more carefree nautical roadtrip are more miserable.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    cant believe someone would play this game and steal from innocent seafarers

    btfpfaxpvb74.gif

    21stCentury makes cool Overwatch pixel gifs btw

    Arch, here is a link to me falling down on the wave rider thing so you can watch it whenever you see me post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Kuari999 wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    Our crew has been having a blast playing SoT, and don't really see where all this missing "content" is supposed to be. You very much make and tell your own stories within the game. Some of our adventures read like fun pirate short-stories.

    I'd take this "bare-bones" content over yet another variation of a boring battle royale game any day of the week.

    Yeah, I find it head-scratching to read posts about reading reviews saying there isn't content. It's like playing a sports video game (or, hey, even something like a Quidditch one) and saying there isn't content because all it does is let you play a match. Or SNES Bomberman. All this missing content probably won't matter very much to you if you like the basic loop. I know I didn't imagine watching Jerry, Mike and his family playing and having a blast doing the same basic tasks over and over.

    I find it a little less head-scratching due to the full $60 price when while yes, I do find its idea more enjoyable than some because of the multiplayer content, I'm aware of games with much more content that cost less. I don't think this should affect review scores but I do see it as a reasonable factor for if one should buy the game over another. I mean, I know I for example would rather play Don't Starve Together rather than this due to the content but very different game which is probably the main thing this has going for it. How many actual good multiplayer Pirate games are out there these days? (seriously, someone needs to do a game like Sea of Thieves except with some inspiration from Pirates! Gold content.)

    It's tough to do a good pirate game because there are so many ideas important to the setting. It usually starts with open world or at least open exploration which can be a big hurdle from the get go. Then you need a melee system, ranged combat systems for at least naval battles but ideally also boarding actions, systems for non-pirate ships so there are actual targets to pirate, and because merchant ships to prey on need a reason to exist some economic sim has to be underneath that. It's a lot going on and even one part missing can be noticeable. I enjoyed Black Flag more than other AC games but it felt lacking as a pirate game at times due to a lack of merchant ships to plunder for meaningful loot.

    And that's just the mechanical bits. There's still the issue of gameplay experience and the pirate fantasy can mean very different things to different people. For a lot of people it's the idea of cutting ties to your old responsibilities and cares and going where the seas and opportunity take you. For others it's the opportunity to go nuts with no fear from authority figures. The latter are the types more likely to enjoy what Sea of Thieves seems to be right now while the people hoping for a more carefree nautical roadtrip are more miserable.

    Hmmm yes, i agree. It is just about time for Puzzle Pirates to have a resurgence of popularity.


    I will never stop banging this drum.

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  • Kuari999Kuari999 Registered User regular
    edited March 28
    It's tough to do a good pirate game because there are so many ideas important to the setting. It usually starts with open world or at least open exploration which can be a big hurdle from the get go. Then you need a melee system, ranged combat systems for at least naval battles but ideally also boarding actions, systems for non-pirate ships so there are actual targets to pirate, and because merchant ships to prey on need a reason to exist some economic sim has to be underneath that. It's a lot going on and even one part missing can be noticeable. I enjoyed Black Flag more than other AC games but it felt lacking as a pirate game at times due to a lack of merchant ships to plunder for meaningful loot.

    And that's just the mechanical bits. There's still the issue of gameplay experience and the pirate fantasy can mean very different things to different people. For a lot of people it's the idea of cutting ties to your old responsibilities and cares and going where the seas and opportunity take you. For others it's the opportunity to go nuts with no fear from authority figures. The latter are the types more likely to enjoy what Sea of Thieves seems to be right now while the people hoping for a more carefree nautical roadtrip are more miserable.

    Honestly? I'm not sure its as hard as people make it out to be. Ubisoft would have been perfectly capable of it in Black Flag. Problem is they had that whole thing where there had to be an AC every year. I'm willing to bet if they specifically went back to that game and actually reused a lot of that, they could make a pretty stellar pirate game that way but too often companies seem to abandon all but the bare bones. They seem too afraid to properly reuse and add on to stuff they used in previous games in an expanded setting. At best they'll take out parts that were popular and do the simplest thing they possibly can to make money (I'm almost 100% positive that's what Ubisoft is doing with their upcoming Pirate game to be frank). I could of course be wrong but well, its often the impression companies give from their actions.

    Actually that's the thing that always annoys me with the yearly model. They have opportunities to add whole new features to a project and save those features for future projects to make building similar projects easier but they rarely take advantage of that and often yank things out instead for microtransactions, DLC and the like.

    Kuari999 on
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Apparently Tycho has never pinned a 7 year old into a corner in Bumper cars just after they spent their last dollar.

    ...or has he?

    I feel like at some point he's done that in the comic.

  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    It's tough to do a good pirate game because there are so many ideas important to the setting. It usually starts with open world or at least open exploration which can be a big hurdle from the get go. Then you need a melee system, ranged combat systems for at least naval battles but ideally also boarding actions, systems for non-pirate ships so there are actual targets to pirate, and because merchant ships to prey on need a reason to exist some economic sim has to be underneath that. It's a lot going on and even one part missing can be noticeable. I enjoyed Black Flag more than other AC games but it felt lacking as a pirate game at times due to a lack of merchant ships to plunder for meaningful loot.

    And that's just the mechanical bits. There's still the issue of gameplay experience and the pirate fantasy can mean very different things to different people. For a lot of people it's the idea of cutting ties to your old responsibilities and cares and going where the seas and opportunity take you. For others it's the opportunity to go nuts with no fear from authority figures. The latter are the types more likely to enjoy what Sea of Thieves seems to be right now while the people hoping for a more carefree nautical roadtrip are more miserable.

    Now something with Eve Online level economic depth set in the Age of Sail would be interesting as hell.

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Our crew has been having a blast playing SoT, and don't really see where all this missing "content" is supposed to be. You very much make and tell your own stories within the game. Some of our adventures read like fun pirate short-stories.

    I'd take this "bare-bones" content over yet another variation of a boring battle royale game any day of the week.

    Yeah, I find it head-scratching to read posts about reading reviews saying there isn't content. It's like playing a sports video game (or, hey, even something like a Quidditch one) and saying there isn't content because all it does is let you play a match. Or SNES Bomberman. All this missing content probably won't matter very much to you if you like the basic loop. I know I didn't imagine watching Jerry, Mike and his family playing and having a blast doing the same basic tasks over and over.

    That would be a pathetic sports game. It's clear you don't play them because this is a very bad analogy. Actually good sports games have things like multi year franchises where you have to retire old players and draft new ones. Or create a fresh team and attract talent as you get better. Online fantasy leagues where you not only create the teams, but then you play the games each weekend. Or even a story mode career where you follow a player through the drama of the matches they get into in and out of the field. A sports game that released with "Play a Match" as the only option would be (rightfully!) laughed out of the industry.

    To compare this to Sea of Thieves, why isn't there an instant action battle mode where you can face 5 or 6 fully crewed ships in a battle? Or an "around the world in 60 days" mode where you're in a race with other ships to get loot and then get to a certain place first? Or a Privateer vs Pirate mode where some ships are there to protect a fleet and kill pirates vs the other team who's there to loot the fleet and escape alive. Even if you take the framework of "everything is PvP", they've done basically NOTHING with it.

  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Kuari999 wrote: »
    I find it a little less head-scratching due to the full $60 price

    That's a fair point. I can see it being a game where you just pass on it if you're not getting it with your Pass.
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Haven't played it, but my understanding is that what people are claiming is missing is basically two things - a more robust progression system (i.e. rewards and upgrades/skills to work towards, goals to earn, etc)

    In other words, an xp treadmill, right? Don't we have enough games like that already? Don't we have enough games where a newbie/casual comes in and is vastly underequipped compared to the regular players?

    I feel like it's kind of refreshing that they seem to be making the progression just mainly about cosmetics and keeping the actual abilities on a level playing field. Would be a shame to see it turn into yet another MMO.
    That would be a pathetic sports game. It's clear you don't play them because this is a very bad analogy.

    You see, the thing about analogies is that they're not meant to be picked apart. As I said above, it's a fair point about it not being worth $60. But for a Game Pass game, it seems not pathetic at all.

    Also, I note you focused solely on the sports analogy and not on the SNES Bomberman one. Didn't need any campaign there. Same is true with MarioKart battle. My friend and I were fanatics. We played so very many battles on Block Fort in the N64 version. All of the other battle tracks more or less sucked so it was a one-track game for us. We only played the races to unlock everything. Once that was done, it was Block Fort battle all the time for us.

    DjiemcB557Moridin889
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Kuari999 wrote: »
    I find it a little less head-scratching due to the full $60 price

    That's a fair point. I can see it being a game where you just pass on it if you're not getting it with your Pass.
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Haven't played it, but my understanding is that what people are claiming is missing is basically two things - a more robust progression system (i.e. rewards and upgrades/skills to work towards, goals to earn, etc)

    In other words, an xp treadmill, right? Don't we have enough games like that already? Don't we have enough games where a newbie/casual comes in and is vastly underequipped compared to the regular players?

    I feel like it's kind of refreshing that they seem to be making the progression just mainly about cosmetics and keeping the actual abilities on a level playing field. Would be a shame to see it turn into yet another MMO.
    That would be a pathetic sports game. It's clear you don't play them because this is a very bad analogy.

    You see, the thing about analogies is that they're not meant to be picked apart. As I said above, it's a fair point about it not being worth $60. But for a Game Pass game, it seems not pathetic at all.

    Also, I note you focused solely on the sports analogy and not on the SNES Bomberman one. Didn't need any campaign there. Same is true with MarioKart battle. My friend and I were fanatics. We played so very many battles on Block Fort in the N64 version. All of the other battle tracks more or less sucked so it was a one-track game for us. We only played the races to unlock everything. Once that was done, it was Block Fort battle all the time for us.

    Mario Kart Battle was indeed a ton of fun... but also they had racing modes and a Grand Prix campaign mode. And later Mario Karts added hidden characters and Kart customization to add to the depth. I think even the part that's supposedly fun about Sea of Thieves is not doing it right. You have to luck into a confrontation with one ship to get a battle started. Why isn't there just a battling mode? Imagine if SNES Bomberman was about wandering empty battlefields and occasionally running into hostile Bombermen to fight (there's an analogy for you to not pick apart). That'd be bad is what it would be.

  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    edited March 29
    Mario Kart Battle was indeed a ton of fun... but also they had racing modes and a Grand Prix campaign mode.

    I already addressed that above.
    And later Mario Karts added hidden characters and Kart customization to add to the depth.

    I'm not really sure I can agree with you on "depth." Yes, it added a lot more unlockables. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of AAA studios have decided passes for "depth" these days. It's like saying Chess or Go don't have depth because you never unlock new pieces or special moves.
    Imagine if SNES Bomberman was about wandering empty battlefields and occasionally running into hostile Bombermen to fight (there's an analogy for you to not pick apart). That'd be bad is what it would be.

    Have you actually played a significant amount of time in this game or watched people who have? Because what you're describing is not what I see. The G&T play Sea of Thieves twitch streams can be rewatched. Go do that and then tell me what you think the experience is like.

    dennis on
    cB557DjiemMoridin889H3Knuckles
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Mario Kart Battle was indeed a ton of fun... but also they had racing modes and a Grand Prix campaign mode.

    I already addressed that above.
    And later Mario Karts added hidden characters and Kart customization to add to the depth.

    I'm not really sure I can agree with you on "depth." Yes, it added a lot more unlockables. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of AAA studios have decided passes for "depth" these days. It's like saying Chess or Go don't have depth because you never unlock new pieces or special moves.
    Imagine if SNES Bomberman was about wandering empty battlefields and occasionally running into hostile Bombermen to fight (there's an analogy for you to not pick apart). That'd be bad is what it would be.

    Have you actually played a significant amount of time in this game or watched people who have? Because what you're describing is not what I see. The G&T play Sea of Thieves twitch streams can be rewatched. Go do that and then tell me what you think the experience is like.

    Sometimes it's very populated, some times it's not. You seem to have a certain video in your head as the only way this goes and I assure you that's not the case. Youtuber SidAlpha says he ran into a single ship in a 2-3 hour play session, for example.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    I wouldn't likely play Sea of Thieves because I know exactly what I'd be getting into, but that being said I'd still like to one day see a game like Sid Meier's Pirates done in a more immersive style like this. That I would buy immediately.


    (If you take pvp out of Sea of Thieves anyway, there's barely enough content variety left over to fill a bucket)

    PSN: Donnicton - Switch FC: SW-6944-1374-2020 - Wii/3DS FC: 1633-4230-5354 - Steam: Donnicton - BNet: Donnicton#11763
  • poipoigirlpoipoigirl Registered User regular
    edited March 29
    I'm indifferent to this game. Never had the desire to play it or do I care. But I did come across a video that actually tells why some people are upset about this game. Before you click or dismiss, I don't always agree with Angry Joe. But you all might find his points amusing/interesting.

    poipoigirl on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Oh, and Ubisoft is taking the AC: Black Flag naval warfare game engine and making an entirely new game/franchise that is not tied to AC.

    It is called Skull and Bones.

    H3Knuckles
  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    Imagine if Blizzard had released World of Warcraft with only 1 race, 1 starting city, no leveling up at all, only 2 basic quests, 1 basic type of enemy that you fought everywhere you went, and all the gear upgrades have no stats and do not improve your character's performance whatsoever - they just look different cosmetically.

    For $60.

    That's Sea of Thieves right now.

    It's a $60 water simulator.

    gekkobearEdith UpwardsshoeboxjeddySmrtnikAndy Joe
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited March 29
    Imagine if Rare released a fun and beautiful PvEvP game where only player skills matter, without handicap disguised as progression. If they made a "Playground" instead of yet another cookie-cutter MMO.

    That is Sea of Thieves, it's super fun, and the fact that all progression is purely cosmetic is why I even paid any attention to it to begin with.

    Also if WoW had no levelling I'd like it better.

    Djiem on
    denniscB557Moridin889A Dabble Of TheloniusH3Knuckles
  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    I just don't see players sticking around after a week or 2, far too repetitive, not enough to do. PVP combat isn't that great either, and won't be any better if there aren't any P's to VP...

    So, are they gonna add tons of new content in 2 weeks? I don't think so. If they had the content now they would have released it now. Even if they add new quests and new enemies and new ships and fix some of the issues in 3-4 months, it will be a ghost town by then.

    (GG-G-G-G--G-GHOST PIRATES)!

  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    From what I’ve seen of the game No Man’s Sky launched with more complete content.

    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    edited March 30
    Sadly, I agree with Djiem that we should be able to have games like this and have them thrive, but I also agree with JWalk that most of today's gamers won't have the attention span to stick around very long.

    We've been conditioned to think that our time-wasting hobby is not a time-wasting hobby as long as there are bars to fill and numbers to increase. Plus, you know, how can we feel a sense of superiority over people who haven't been playing as long if there's no progression?? (I don't feel that way, but I think many do.)

    (Edited to fix typos.)

    MarcinMN on
    dennisDjiemA Dabble Of TheloniusSmrtnikAndy JoeH3Knuckles
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Oh, and Ubisoft is taking the AC: Black Flag naval warfare game engine and making an entirely new game/franchise that is not tied to AC.

    It is called Skull and Bones.

    That's the one where you play as the ship, right?

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    Kuari999 wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    Our crew has been having a blast playing SoT, and don't really see where all this missing "content" is supposed to be. You very much make and tell your own stories within the game. Some of our adventures read like fun pirate short-stories.

    I'd take this "bare-bones" content over yet another variation of a boring battle royale game any day of the week.

    Yeah, I find it head-scratching to read posts about reading reviews saying there isn't content. It's like playing a sports video game (or, hey, even something like a Quidditch one) and saying there isn't content because all it does is let you play a match. Or SNES Bomberman. All this missing content probably won't matter very much to you if you like the basic loop. I know I didn't imagine watching Jerry, Mike and his family playing and having a blast doing the same basic tasks over and over.

    I find it a little less head-scratching due to the full $60 price when while yes, I do find its idea more enjoyable than some because of the multiplayer content, I'm aware of games with much more content that cost less. I don't think this should affect review scores but I do see it as a reasonable factor for if one should buy the game over another. I mean, I know I for example would rather play Don't Starve Together rather than this due to the content but very different game which is probably the main thing this has going for it. How many actual good multiplayer Pirate games are out there these days? (seriously, someone needs to do a game like Sea of Thieves except with some inspiration from Pirates! Gold content.)

    It's tough to do a good pirate game because there are so many ideas important to the setting. It usually starts with open world or at least open exploration which can be a big hurdle from the get go. Then you need a melee system, ranged combat systems for at least naval battles but ideally also boarding actions, systems for non-pirate ships so there are actual targets to pirate, and because merchant ships to prey on need a reason to exist some economic sim has to be underneath that. It's a lot going on and even one part missing can be noticeable. I enjoyed Black Flag more than other AC games but it felt lacking as a pirate game at times due to a lack of merchant ships to plunder for meaningful loot.

    And that's just the mechanical bits. There's still the issue of gameplay experience and the pirate fantasy can mean very different things to different people. For a lot of people it's the idea of cutting ties to your old responsibilities and cares and going where the seas and opportunity take you. For others it's the opportunity to go nuts with no fear from authority figures. The latter are the types more likely to enjoy what Sea of Thieves seems to be right now while the people hoping for a more carefree nautical roadtrip are more miserable.

    Hmmm yes, i agree. It is just about time for Puzzle Pirates to have a resurgence of popularity.


    I will never stop banging this drum.

    Puzzle Pirates was the first thing I thought of. I played in the beta, part of my username here stems from that time, and this same issue came up. People justifying griefing because "It's pirates". And I say this as someone who was in a crew that frankly did do a lot of griefing, but it was fascinating to watch how the devs responded and tweaked the game to account for it.

    Tofystedeth
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    I can't do lobby games with no progression or change. I don't know how much of that is me being Skinner Boxed or not. Like, I can play Super Smash Brothers with friends on a couch, but online, even with friends online, I have a really hard time doing the same task over and over. Leveling systems only help if you unlock actual abilities that change how you play. Unique stories for each map help a lot: Brink was on the right track (and that game not being good is a tragedy because it had a lot of ideas that were close to being good ideas). Vermintide does it really well too, and is the only "lobby game" I can really stand right now.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Kuari999 wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    Our crew has been having a blast playing SoT, and don't really see where all this missing "content" is supposed to be. You very much make and tell your own stories within the game. Some of our adventures read like fun pirate short-stories.

    I'd take this "bare-bones" content over yet another variation of a boring battle royale game any day of the week.

    Yeah, I find it head-scratching to read posts about reading reviews saying there isn't content. It's like playing a sports video game (or, hey, even something like a Quidditch one) and saying there isn't content because all it does is let you play a match. Or SNES Bomberman. All this missing content probably won't matter very much to you if you like the basic loop. I know I didn't imagine watching Jerry, Mike and his family playing and having a blast doing the same basic tasks over and over.

    I find it a little less head-scratching due to the full $60 price when while yes, I do find its idea more enjoyable than some because of the multiplayer content, I'm aware of games with much more content that cost less. I don't think this should affect review scores but I do see it as a reasonable factor for if one should buy the game over another. I mean, I know I for example would rather play Don't Starve Together rather than this due to the content but very different game which is probably the main thing this has going for it. How many actual good multiplayer Pirate games are out there these days? (seriously, someone needs to do a game like Sea of Thieves except with some inspiration from Pirates! Gold content.)

    It's tough to do a good pirate game because there are so many ideas important to the setting. It usually starts with open world or at least open exploration which can be a big hurdle from the get go. Then you need a melee system, ranged combat systems for at least naval battles but ideally also boarding actions, systems for non-pirate ships so there are actual targets to pirate, and because merchant ships to prey on need a reason to exist some economic sim has to be underneath that. It's a lot going on and even one part missing can be noticeable. I enjoyed Black Flag more than other AC games but it felt lacking as a pirate game at times due to a lack of merchant ships to plunder for meaningful loot.

    And that's just the mechanical bits. There's still the issue of gameplay experience and the pirate fantasy can mean very different things to different people. For a lot of people it's the idea of cutting ties to your old responsibilities and cares and going where the seas and opportunity take you. For others it's the opportunity to go nuts with no fear from authority figures. The latter are the types more likely to enjoy what Sea of Thieves seems to be right now while the people hoping for a more carefree nautical roadtrip are more miserable.

    Hmmm yes, i agree. It is just about time for Puzzle Pirates to have a resurgence of popularity.


    I will never stop banging this drum.

    Puzzle Pirates was the first thing I thought of. I played in the beta, part of my username here stems from that time, and this same issue came up. People justifying griefing because "It's pirates". And I say this as someone who was in a crew that frankly did do a lot of griefing, but it was fascinating to watch how the devs responded and tweaked the game to account for it.

    El Pollo Diablo had no mercy for griefers.

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