Pick Pocket
Class: Rogue
Card type: Spell
Rarity: Rare
Mana cost: 2
Card text: Echo - Add a random card to your hand (from your opponent's class).
See, the reason I think this card is good is because it's an echo card and not too cost-prohibitive.
Basically meaning that if it's turn 8 or 15 and I'm topdecking, getting this card means a ton of value and potentially getting something broken for Rogue to abuse.
If it was 1 mana it'd just be a little too busted.
(2) Echo
Give your VanCleef +2/+2 and do somethingelsemumbleumblewhocares
Finally, we have that card that can get us two Radiant Elementals or two Sorcerer's Apprentice.
Meme cannon activate.
+9
IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
Discover without Echo would've been fine but Discover with Echo would be silly good.
I think it's fine. We'll see if it's worth it. I do wish they had pushed these a little more. Maybe something like "If your last copy of this spell cost X, this costs X-1" on a few of them.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
The biggest problem with Echo + Discover isn't game balance, it's that watching your opponent go through multiple Discovers in a single turn is boring as hell.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
+9
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Why do I get the feeling that these cards are being tested in a 10-mana vacuum?
LOL!
Okay I have to ask, are they known for not bothering to playtest or is their playtesting just inadequate?
They're infamous for having laughably poor testing. They do it all in-house with totally non-competitive decks. It's why they release busted cards that they're later shocked are busted, because they didn't consult any pro players beforehand.
Pick Pocket
Class: Rogue
Card type: Spell
Rarity: Rare
Mana cost: 2
Card text: Echo - Add a random card to your hand (from your opponent's class).
First thought: Oh, that's kinda cool! It's kinda like Hallucination/Swashburgie and it's got Echo!
Second thought: Oh, but... I mean it's 2 mana, and.... if you're gonna be chaining it, that's basically gonna be your whole turn..... And...... Ehhhhh.....
Why do I get the feeling that these cards are being tested in a 10-mana vacuum?
LOL!
Okay I have to ask, are they known for not bothering to playtest or is their playtesting just inadequate?
They're infamous for having laughably poor testing. They do it all in-house with totally non-competitive decks. It's why they release busted cards that they're later shocked are busted, because they didn't consult any pro players beforehand.
And the opposite is true as well. There are a bunch of times where they've hinted that they think X is super broken and they were terrified to release it, and then it turns out it's barely playable in a tier 3 deck somewhere.
+6
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Why do I get the feeling that these cards are being tested in a 10-mana vacuum?
LOL!
Okay I have to ask, are they known for not bothering to playtest or is their playtesting just inadequate?
They're infamous for having laughably poor testing. They do it all in-house with totally non-competitive decks. It's why they release busted cards that they're later shocked are busted, because they didn't consult any pro players beforehand.
And the opposite is true as well. There are a bunch of times where they've hinted that they think X is super broken and they were terrified to release it, and then it turns out it's barely playable in a tier 3 deck somewhere.
"Valeera's DK is seriously insane!" comes to mind.
Meanwhile no fanfare for DK Anduin or Gul'Dan, who are both amaaaaaaaaaaazing.
There is nothing outside of Combo Priest BS that's as frustrating as fighting through five Doomguards, only to get OTK'd by another five of the dang things.
morgan_coke on
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
I really hope Shaman is playable this time around. And Hunter is moreso. The best counter to Cubelock would be having more decks that run burn/face damage spells than just Mage.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
The more time goes by, the more angry I am that Blizzard implemented Echo in the worst, most inflexible way possible. Choose One and the Forbidden spells exist; they know that people will pay extra for flexibility, and the amount extra that they're willing to pay is 0.5-1 mana. But if an Echo card is one mana overcosted, then playing it twice is two mana overcosted, and playing it three times is three mana overcosted. There's no mana point where you're actually happy with the play.
The keyword should have been Echo: N, where N is the mana cost of the subsequent casts. The paradigm could have been "decent on curve or scales up inefficiently", or "kind of bad on curve but with a good discount for buying in bulk". Pick Pocket might have been good if it was one mana with Echo: 2, or two cards for three mana with Echo: 2. But instead the paradigm is "it sucks at 2, it sucks at 4, it sucks at 6, it sucks at 8". Instead of being always on curve it's never on curve.
The current implementation sort of works with removal or board clear, because with those sorts of spells if you can solve a crucial problem on a crucial turn then you don't really care if it's a little bit inefficient. But bodies and card draw don't solve problems, they generate value, and when it comes to generating value efficiency is everything.
Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
+5
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I think the situation is more complicated than that regarding card quality. Some of the cards we think or know suck, they have to as well. Some cards aren't designed to be meta warping and some, like that Druid legendary, are just fun ones. They're not interested in every card improving a class (and they shouldn't be, really).
The other issue is if they really are trying to scale back the power creep a lot, it'll be through bad cards and rotations....so a question I have to a lot of the complaints here is, do you want 40 new cards on the level of Gul'Dangerous?
That could be crazy fun or a disaster, I dunno, but reining in power creep it certainly would not do.
Bizazedo on
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
the struggle with blizzard's internal testing environment is that they very aggressively try to make specific kinds of decks - the Forced Archetypes meme everyone loves throwing about - and then they test those specific decks against each other
they have very few explorative deckbuilders - i would pretty much assume that no one internally built cubelock, for example
in a vacuum, it's fine to not predict every playable deck. most card games pretty openly accept that it's not possible for them to do so, even! but blizzard's style of testing is why you have an expansion devoted to an incredibly unpushed Freeze Shaman, because it's being tested against equally unpushed decks like Damaged Minions Warrior
I think the situation is more complicated than that regarding card quality. Some of the cards we think or know suck, they have to as well. Some cards aren't designed to be meta warping and some, like that Druid legendary, are just fun ones. They're not interested in every card improving a class (and they shouldn't be, really).
The other issue is if they really are trying to scale back the power creep a lot, it'll be through bad cards and rotations....so a question I have to a lot of the complaints here is, do you want 40 new cards on the level of Gul'Dangerous?
That could be crazy fun or a disaster, I dunno, but reining in power creep it certainly would not do.
Trying to reign in power creep by releasing bad sets and not nerfing cards sucks, because with the rotation schedule they have it takes a full year before it sticks. If barely any cards are added that can compete with Un'Goro/Frozen Throne/Catacombs, then whichever existing class lost the fewest relevant cards in the rotation (Warlock, probably, under current conditions) just becomes unbeatable and the meta stagnates. And it seems impractical to just take a hatchet to every card that was good enough to see play in the last meta.
Keep in mind, we're all mostly guessing at their testing environment. The simple fact of the matter is card balance is hard, and it's hard to invest too much resources into in-house testing when you know, 24 hours after release, you'll have 10x the amount of data for free...
Does anyone have a beta invite for Magic Arena that they're not using? I watched Day 9 fiddle and I want to fiddle now.
Something like 1/3rd of the Beta testers have quit in protest because the new economy is so awful. It's really not worth messing with until they fix it, and given the radio silence they're putting out after everyone laughed in their faces about their concept of "goals", I'm guessing they're going to DoA that game on release.
Last time I checked the Beta forums they were pretty much just flame wars over whether the econ was bad, or all time terrible, plus a bunch of I quit posts. Hang on, I'll go check again real quick.
EDIT: forums are not as bad as they used to be, but judging from the grammar and topics I'd guess it's mostly kids and casuals there now. The grinders appear to have moved on.
morgan_coke on
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
I have no idea what it does or even what the card art is.
Unfortunately, pro player input / former pro on design staff doesn't preclude terribly broken design - see how Standard Showdown became nothing but Energy Splash Scarab God Splash Hostage Taker mirror matches.
I have no idea what it does or even what the card art is.
Unfortunately, pro player input / former pro on design staff doesn't preclude terribly broken design - see how Standard Showdown became nothing but Energy Splash Scarab God Splash Hostage Taker mirror matches.
DK Valeera is more common than, say, DK Uther. And Grommash/Thrall, but that's because lol who plays Warrior/Shaman?
the struggle with blizzard's internal testing environment is that they very aggressively try to make specific kinds of decks - the Forced Archetypes meme everyone loves throwing about - and then they test those specific decks against each other
they have very few explorative deckbuilders - i would pretty much assume that no one internally built cubelock, for example
in a vacuum, it's fine to not predict every playable deck. most card games pretty openly accept that it's not possible for them to do so, even! but blizzard's style of testing is why you have an expansion devoted to an incredibly unpushed Freeze Shaman, because it's being tested against equally unpushed decks like Damaged Minions Warrior
I'd say it should be explicitly be the goal that you can't catch everything when testing your (digital) card game, because that means you're creating an environment where deckbuilding is complex and dynamic and interesting. But on the other hand, you have to be willing to actually take action when it becomes clear some of those things are overtuned, rather than just shrugging and say "eh, rotation'll sweep it up eventually."
Posts
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Pick Pocket
Class: Rogue
Card type: Spell
Rarity: Rare
Mana cost: 2
Card text: Echo - Add a random card to your hand (from your opponent's class).
oh no she can come from Toki
fuck the PTSD's kicking in
Wow, it's a much shittier version of Hallucinate and Swashburgler. phhhhbbbtttt
I think it's a good naked drop because it needs to be answered otherwise you run into the same risk as leaving a questing alive.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Give your VanCleef +2/+2 and do somethingelsemumbleumblewhocares
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
What about Discover, huh huh? :P
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
See, the reason I think this card is good is because it's an echo card and not too cost-prohibitive.
Basically meaning that if it's turn 8 or 15 and I'm topdecking, getting this card means a ton of value and potentially getting something broken for Rogue to abuse.
If it was 1 mana it'd just be a little too busted.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Finally, we have that card that can get us two Radiant Elementals or two Sorcerer's Apprentice.
Meme cannon activate.
I think it's fine. We'll see if it's worth it. I do wish they had pushed these a little more. Maybe something like "If your last copy of this spell cost X, this costs X-1" on a few of them.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
LOL!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Okay I have to ask, are they known for not bothering to playtest or is their playtesting just inadequate?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
They're infamous for having laughably poor testing. They do it all in-house with totally non-competitive decks. It's why they release busted cards that they're later shocked are busted, because they didn't consult any pro players beforehand.
First thought: Oh, that's kinda cool! It's kinda like Hallucination/Swashburgie and it's got Echo!
Second thought: Oh, but... I mean it's 2 mana, and.... if you're gonna be chaining it, that's basically gonna be your whole turn..... And...... Ehhhhh.....
Third thought:
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
And the opposite is true as well. There are a bunch of times where they've hinted that they think X is super broken and they were terrified to release it, and then it turns out it's barely playable in a tier 3 deck somewhere.
"Valeera's DK is seriously insane!" comes to mind.
Meanwhile no fanfare for DK Anduin or Gul'Dan, who are both amaaaaaaaaaaazing.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
The keyword should have been Echo: N, where N is the mana cost of the subsequent casts. The paradigm could have been "decent on curve or scales up inefficiently", or "kind of bad on curve but with a good discount for buying in bulk". Pick Pocket might have been good if it was one mana with Echo: 2, or two cards for three mana with Echo: 2. But instead the paradigm is "it sucks at 2, it sucks at 4, it sucks at 6, it sucks at 8". Instead of being always on curve it's never on curve.
The current implementation sort of works with removal or board clear, because with those sorts of spells if you can solve a crucial problem on a crucial turn then you don't really care if it's a little bit inefficient. But bodies and card draw don't solve problems, they generate value, and when it comes to generating value efficiency is everything.
So, Blizzard's internal testing environment then.
The other issue is if they really are trying to scale back the power creep a lot, it'll be through bad cards and rotations....so a question I have to a lot of the complaints here is, do you want 40 new cards on the level of Gul'Dangerous?
That could be crazy fun or a disaster, I dunno, but reining in power creep it certainly would not do.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
When your format consists of nothing but purify priest decks...
they have very few explorative deckbuilders - i would pretty much assume that no one internally built cubelock, for example
in a vacuum, it's fine to not predict every playable deck. most card games pretty openly accept that it's not possible for them to do so, even! but blizzard's style of testing is why you have an expansion devoted to an incredibly unpushed Freeze Shaman, because it's being tested against equally unpushed decks like Damaged Minions Warrior
It was soooooooooo bad. It had elements of the overload deck in it, but so much worse.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Something like 1/3rd of the Beta testers have quit in protest because the new economy is so awful. It's really not worth messing with until they fix it, and given the radio silence they're putting out after everyone laughed in their faces about their concept of "goals", I'm guessing they're going to DoA that game on release.
Last time I checked the Beta forums they were pretty much just flame wars over whether the econ was bad, or all time terrible, plus a bunch of I quit posts. Hang on, I'll go check again real quick.
EDIT: forums are not as bad as they used to be, but judging from the grammar and topics I'd guess it's mostly kids and casuals there now. The grinders appear to have moved on.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
I have no idea what it does or even what the card art is.
Unfortunately, pro player input / former pro on design staff doesn't preclude terribly broken design - see how Standard Showdown became nothing but Energy Splash Scarab God Splash Hostage Taker mirror matches.
DK Valeera is more common than, say, DK Uther. And Grommash/Thrall, but that's because lol who plays Warrior/Shaman?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I'd say it should be explicitly be the goal that you can't catch everything when testing your (digital) card game, because that means you're creating an environment where deckbuilding is complex and dynamic and interesting. But on the other hand, you have to be willing to actually take action when it becomes clear some of those things are overtuned, rather than just shrugging and say "eh, rotation'll sweep it up eventually."