From the now public prosecutor's response linked above:
Fourth, the USAO-SDNY has specific reason to doubt that the seized materials will include the volume and nature of attorney-client communications that Cohen claims. This is because the USAO-SDNY has already obtained search warrants – covert until this point – on multiple different email accounts maintained by Cohen, and has conducted a privilege review of the materials obtained pursuant to those warrants. The results of that review, as resported by the USAO’s Filter Team, indicate that Cohen is in fact performing little to no legal work, and that zero emails were exchanged with President Trump.
They already had his emails and knew what was in them before the raid.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
The prosecutor is basically saying Cohen's claim to have cooperated with the congressional investigation was full of it.
Cohen also states that the SCO “had requested that the Trump Organization produce all of Mr. Cohen’s communications that were within the Trump Organization’s custody, possession, or control,” and that Cohen objected “on the grounds that [the request] called for production of privileged communications, among other things.” (Br. 8-9). Although in the ordinary course, the USAO-SDNY would not comment on investigative requests or demands made to third parties, particularly those from a separate office undertaking its own, independent investigation, in light of the representations made by Cohen’s counsel, USAO-SDNY contacted the SCO about these representations and understands they are not accurate. In particular, the SCO did not request that the Trump Organization produce “all communications” by Cohen in the Trump Organization’s possession or control irrespective of subject matter or privilege. Indeed, the request made by the SCO was considerably narrower, and specifically omitted, among other things, any documents that were protected by privilege or of a purely personal nature. Cohen nonetheless objected to that request for documents and, after discussions between Cohen’s counsel and the SCO, the SCO decided not to seek production at that time. That Cohen sought to preclude the Trump Organization from producing these third party communications belies both (i) his general assertion of cooperation, and (ii) his stated principal interest in protecting attorney-client communications. Indeed, a careful review of Cohen’s motion papers reveals that he does not purport to have personally produced any documents to the SCO.
There are several points in the document where the prosecutor states that Cohen did not provide any evidence for his assertions.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
White collar crime is not nearly prosecuted enough as shown by people like Trump and Manafort.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
The thing about being blackmailed is that you typically don't report it to the police.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
1. It sounds like a lot of white collar crime
2. He wasn't like, running a law office. It doesn't sound like he had many clients. He just did crimes for Trump and Trump kept him in the money.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
You know the phrase "punching up" vs "punching down"?
Well, it also applies to lawyering. Bullies like Trump and Cohen only know how to punch down, against people who don't know how to defend themselves.
They have no idea how to punch up against someone who is actually knows what the law says.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
1. It sounds like a lot of white collar crime
2. He wasn't like, running a law office. It doesn't sound like he had many clients. He just did crimes for Trump and Trump kept him in the money.
Maybe this is insulting to the profession of law, but I always thought that guys like Cohen were a dime a dozen, and that it was completely unsurprising for a rich person to have a ~criminal~ lawyer carrying water for them / abusing the prerogatives of the office to help shield their affairs and terrorize people on their behalf.
Or is that actually way more of an outlier situation? Curious wrt a view from inside the profession.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
1. It sounds like a lot of white collar crime
2. He wasn't like, running a law office. It doesn't sound like he had many clients. He just did crimes for Trump and Trump kept him in the money.
Maybe this is insulting to the profession of law, but I always thought that guys like Cohen were a dime a dozen, and that it was completely unsurprising for a rich person to have a ~criminal~ lawyer carrying water for them / abusing the prerogatives of the office to help shield their affairs and terrorize people on their behalf.
Or is that actually way more of an outlier situation? Curious wrt a view from inside the profession.
There are miles of difference between what I would call "shady" lawyers or lawyers who skirt the rules of professionalism and ethics and straight up criminals like Cohen. Yes, this is an outlier.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
It’s really hard to catch white collar crime. Most of the victims don’t tell the police. Many might not even know they are a victim. The crimes happen in private on paper that cannot be legally searched without a warrant.
It’s harder to catch a lawyer. On top of all the above the lawyer gets additional scrutiny for the purpose of searches. Fishing for lawyers will make every other lawyer hate you and that includes judges.
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
White collar crime is not nearly prosecuted enough as shown by people like Trump and Manafort.
Watching his administration accidentally flip over the rock and expose it all to day light has been fascinating.
It just reminds me of the end of the movie Snake Eyes where the protagonist of that story has his whole life upended and is facing prison because of the spotlight put on him. Cohen/trump/anyone else caught up in this, were perfectly good at being low level criminals who committed crimes that were just enough outside the spot light to get a signifigant look. But now that Trump is president, everyone around him who has been running these crimes are suddenly right out there with big lights shined on them and government entities that have been bullied and harrassed by Trump already.
Story isn't over, but for Trump and his associates like Cohen, winning could have been the worst thing that ever happened to them.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It just reminds me of the end of the movie Snake Eyes where the protagonist of that story has his whole life upended and is facing prison because of the spotlight put on him. Cohen/trump/anyone else caught up in this, were perfectly good at being low level criminals who committed crimes that were just enough outside the spot light to get a signifigant look. But now that Trump is president, everyone around him who has been running these crimes are suddenly right out there with big lights shined on them and government entities that have been bullied and harrassed by Trump already.
Story isn't over, but for Trump and his associates like Cohen, winning could have been the worst thing that ever happened to them.
Man, that movie had the weirdest denouement, even for a Nick Cage flick.
I dunno, man. A statement, even lacking the context of the first part, that states that Cohen fails to give a true impression that he's actually engaged in the duties of his job is pretty damning to me.
Gyral on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
So SiG, you seem to be the local legal guru, based on how things are looking right now, just how bad is this for Cohen on a scale from 0 (pure as the driven snow) to 10 (unequivocally screwed)?
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
It's a "Milli Vanilli wins the Grammy" scenario. Up till now, he's had limited scrutiny, so he probably didn't need to do more than veiled threats. Then Trump gets elected, and now he finds himself under the piercing spotlight.
“We have every reason to believe that some of the documents that were seized relate to my client,” the lawyer Michael Avenatti told U.S. District Judge Kimba Wood at a hearing in Manhattan federal court.
Another source says that Judge Wood approved his request to be heard.
President Trump phoned his longtime confidant, Michael D. Cohen, to “check in” on Friday as lawyers for the two men went to court to block the Justice Department from reading seized documents related to Mr. Cohen’s decade of work for Mr. Trump, according to two people familiar with the call.
It is not clear what else they discussed in a call that came days after a series of F.B.I. raids. Depending on what was said, the call could be problematic for both men, as defense lawyers often advise their clients not to talk to each other during investigations. Mr. Trump and Mr. Cohen still were trying to determine what exactly was seized.
Posts
This is delightful
This does not sound like the sort of thing you ever want a judge to say to you.
"Stop bullshitting me, counsel"
Ayup
He was a "fixer"
There are several points in the document where the prosecutor states that Cohen did not provide any evidence for his assertions.
This is unprecedented-ly bad - there are crooked attorneys, and there are crooked attorneys, and then there are crooked attorneys who represent the President and are intimately linked with alleged wrongdoings the President has committed. Cohen appears to have been using his status as a lawyer as a shield for criminal activity for years. He's also apparently quite bad at it. Saul Goodman he ain't.
I am not surprised the government can quickly write an incredibly detailed memo on all the shit they have on him. They have done their homework and honestly as a lawyer it's incredibly gratifying to see someone abusing his professional position go down in flames.
It is very very unlikely he "gets out of this" in any sense of the phrase.
the baffling thing to me is that Cohen has apparently gotten away with this for a fairly long time now. either he's at least doing something right in terms of lawyering (and i mean right as in "secures the wanted outcome" and not as in "this is moral and lawful"), or he was doing some really underhanded shit to make people stay quiet.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
White collar crime is not nearly prosecuted enough as shown by people like Trump and Manafort.
The thing about being blackmailed is that you typically don't report it to the police.
1. It sounds like a lot of white collar crime
2. He wasn't like, running a law office. It doesn't sound like he had many clients. He just did crimes for Trump and Trump kept him in the money.
I wish they'd left like one completely out of context word in the middle of the block unredacted.
Like, "antelope"
You know the phrase "punching up" vs "punching down"?
Well, it also applies to lawyering. Bullies like Trump and Cohen only know how to punch down, against people who don't know how to defend themselves.
They have no idea how to punch up against someone who is actually knows what the law says.
Maybe this is insulting to the profession of law, but I always thought that guys like Cohen were a dime a dozen, and that it was completely unsurprising for a rich person to have a ~criminal~ lawyer carrying water for them / abusing the prerogatives of the office to help shield their affairs and terrorize people on their behalf.
Or is that actually way more of an outlier situation? Curious wrt a view from inside the profession.
There are miles of difference between what I would call "shady" lawyers or lawyers who skirt the rules of professionalism and ethics and straight up criminals like Cohen. Yes, this is an outlier.
It’s really hard to catch white collar crime. Most of the victims don’t tell the police. Many might not even know they are a victim. The crimes happen in private on paper that cannot be legally searched without a warrant.
It’s harder to catch a lawyer. On top of all the above the lawyer gets additional scrutiny for the purpose of searches. Fishing for lawyers will make every other lawyer hate you and that includes judges.
Watching his administration accidentally flip over the rock and expose it all to day light has been fascinating.
Story isn't over, but for Trump and his associates like Cohen, winning could have been the worst thing that ever happened to them.
pleasepaypreacher.net
The man who Cohen helped arrange a $1.6 million payment to his mistress has resigned as deputy finance chair of the RNC
Why is Cohen still on the RNC finance committee?
I think, as of the raid, he's no longer listed as such on their website...
Whoa hey there Shame, good to see ya buddy
Been a while
basically a coffee boy
He mostly just got him coffee...
*edit* Damnit, Elendil. *edit*
Man, Cohen really has a type doesn't he
Dude just loves the enormous garbage bag full of ground beef lads.
Drunk Grisham?
Hey now, let's not sully the name of Michael Clayton. He would never do shit this illegal and he actually had a conscience at the end.
It's a "Milli Vanilli wins the Grammy" scenario. Up till now, he's had limited scrutiny, so he probably didn't need to do more than veiled threats. Then Trump gets elected, and now he finds himself under the piercing spotlight.
Another source says that Judge Wood approved his request to be heard.
Even Drunk Grisham could craft a better plot then what we got here. With a better grasp of law it seems.