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[Michael Cohen thread] SDNY cases against Cohen, Stormy Daniels case, bribes through Cohen

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Posts

  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    moniker wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    So can a presidential pardon get Cohen out of this? Because I don't see any other way out for him.

    He would lose his ability to plead the 5th and could be compelled to give testimony.
    He could not since he would still be in Jeopardy at a state level. President cannot pardon state and county.

    zepherin on
  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Btw, I wrote up a slightly longer and more technical explanation of attorney-client privilege (with citations!) that might be helpful:

    For anyone wondering why attorney-client privilege does not apply to the Cohen raid, here's a combination of my thoughts along with notes from Prof. Rosen's Ethics class.

    According to Wigmore, attorney-client privilege exists:

    a. Where legal advice of any kind is sought

    b. from a professional legal advisor in his capacity as such,

    c. the communications relating to that purpose,

    d. made in confidence

    e. by the client,

    f. are at his instance permanently protected from disclosure by himself or by the legal adviser, except the protection be waived.

    Therefore, since Trump has stated publicly that he had no knowledge of the Stormy Daniels contract, there is no attorney-client privilege on Cohen's files pertaining to the issue since he fails the first part (no legal advice sought).

    Second, attorney-client privilege can be waived if 1) the client knowingly communicates in the presence of a third person, U.S. v. Landoff, 591 F.2d 36 (9th Cir. 1978), or 2) a communication is made with an intent to publish, U.S. v. Under Seal, 748 F.2d 871, 876 (4th Cir. 1984); In re Walsh, 623 F.2d 489, 494 (7th Cir. 1980).

    Given that Trump has spoken about many of the legal issues Cohen, as general counsel, handled for the president, Trump has likely knowingly communicated information in the presence of a third person (reporters, anyone other than Cohen) and with an intent to publish (speaking to reporters, tweeting). Therefore, Trump has likely waived any existing attorney-client privilege in these legal matters.

    Furthermore, Cohen may have waived privilege himself if he revealed privileged information on behalf of Trump and within the scope of Cohen's authority. McCormick on Evidence '92.

    Lastly, there is an absolute exception to attorney-client privilege called future crime or fraud: "Where the purpose of an attorney-client communication is the furthering of a further/future crime or fraud, there is no privilege. Clark v. State, 261 S.W.2d 339 (Tex. Crim. App. 1953).

    If Trump and Cohen communicated about their plans to commit a crimes, say, bank fraud or violating campaign finance laws, that communication would not be privileged since it involves a future (at the time of communication) crime or fraud.

    Hopefully, this clears up why the FBI raid on Cohen do not violate attorney-client privilege and are well within the scope of the law.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    So can a presidential pardon get Cohen out of this? Because I don't see any other way out for him.

    He would lose his ability to plead the 5th and could be compelled to give testimony.
    He could not since he would still be in Jeopardy at a state level. President cannot pardon state and county.

    If you waive the 5th re: a certain set of facts it certainly stands to reason that you cannot re-claim the 5th later when those facts are the basis of a further legal action. Pretty hard to claim you can't be forced to incriminate yourself when you've already been pardoned for committing the crime in question.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    I thought NY was a sovereign state, or some such term, meaning double jeopardy doesn’t apply between federal and state crimes or something around thereabouts.

    Of course, I’m about as far from a lawyer as you can get, so I could be totally wrong.

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  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    I thought NY was a sovereign state, or some such term, meaning double jeopardy doesn’t apply between federal and state crimes or something around thereabouts.

    Of course, I’m about as far from a lawyer as you can get, so I could be totally wrong.

    Yes, dual sovereign exception does provide a loophole through double jeopardy since state prosecution does not bar federal prosecution on the same legal matter (unit of prosecution) and vice versa.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-access-hollywood.html

    I believe this is the first specific example of something they were looking for from the actual warrant itself. What criminal exposure could there be for Cohen re: Access Hollywood?

    The Access Hollywood tape is apparently what led Stormy Daniels to want to speak out, which is what led Cohen to pay her off.

    That would be after it was leaked to the press though, it doesn't explain why the FBI would want to raid Cohen's office looking for communications with Trump surrounding the tape. It sounds more like there might have been some effort to suppress the tape before it leaked.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    I thought NY was a sovereign state, or some such term, meaning double jeopardy doesn’t apply between federal and state crimes or something around thereabouts.

    Of course, I’m about as far from a lawyer as you can get, so I could be totally wrong.

    Double jeopardy isn't the same as your 5th amendment right not to incriminate yourself.

    Let's say you're being prosecuted for domestic violence. Your victim has also filed a restraining order against you (civil case). You can claim in the civil case that you can't be forced to talk about the basis of the restraining order, which is the same facts as the basis of the crime, because of your 5th amendment rights.

    If you then waived your 5th amendment rights in the criminal case, you couldn't still claim them in the civil case. The 5th amendment rights "attach" to the person and the set of facts, not the legal case.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-access-hollywood.html

    I believe this is the first specific example of something they were looking for from the actual warrant itself. What criminal exposure could there be for Cohen re: Access Hollywood?

    The Access Hollywood tape was released just hours after an Intelligence report claiming Russia was interfering in the US election.

    Almost immediately afterward, Wikileaks dumped the Podesta emails onto the internet.

    It was a pretty big news day.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/us/politics/michael-cohen-trump-access-hollywood.html

    I believe this is the first specific example of something they were looking for from the actual warrant itself. What criminal exposure could there be for Cohen re: Access Hollywood?

    The Access Hollywood tape was released just hours after an Intelligence report claiming Russia was interfering in the US election.

    Almost immediately afterward, Wikileaks dumped the Podesta emails onto the internet.

    It was a pretty big news day.

    That’s nuts.

    I’m pretty sure I’m a less productive member of society because of how damaged my attention span is now because of this shit.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    Honestly, the main reason I remember is because I was in meetings that day and when I checked the election thread later there were something like 500 posts.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Honestly, the main reason I remember is because I was in meetings that day and when I checked the election thread later there were something like 500 posts.

    That was every day.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    The unread post counts on some threads in this forum are an exceptionally reliable indicator of how Oh God a given day is going to be.

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  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    Honestly, the main reason I remember is because I was in meetings that day and when I checked the election thread later there were something like 500 posts.

    Funny you mention this. I just had CNN on in the background and it rolled over to Don Lemon’s show and he started running through the timeline of everything that happened that day in light of new reporting that the warrant specifically sought evidence from Cohen of possible attempts to suppress the Access Hollywood tape. Basically three major things all happened within a single hour:

    First, Obama’s administration announces it suspects Russian state involvement of some sort in the DNC email hack (I’m recounting from memory here so correct the details)

    Then half an hour later, the Access Hollywood tape breaks

    Then twenty minutes later, Wikileaks drops the first batch of the hacked Podesta emails

    Are these things all related? Honestly even at my most conspiratorial, I doubt it. However, it is wild to think back and realize how swiftly in succession these seismic events all occurred

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    Honestly, the main reason I remember is because I was in meetings that day and when I checked the election thread later there were something like 500 posts.

    Funny you mention this. I just had CNN on in the background and it rolled over to Don Lemon’s show and he started running through the timeline of everything that happened that day in light of new reporting that the warrant specifically sought evidence from Cohen of possible attempts to suppress the Access Hollywood tape. Basically three major things all happened within a single hour:

    First, Obama’s administration announces it suspects Russian state involvement of some sort in the DNC email hack (I’m recounting from memory here so correct the details)

    Then half an hour later, the Access Hollywood tape breaks

    Then twenty minutes later, Wikileaks drops the first batch of the hacked Podesta emails

    Are these things all related? Honestly even at my most conspiratorial, I doubt it. However, it is wild to think back and realize how swiftly in succession these seismic events all occurred

    I would honestly be shocked if 1 and 3 weren't related. That seems like a Wikileaks move to me.

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Mortius is correct Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    The unread post counts on some threads in this forum are an exceptionally reliable indicator of how Oh God a given day is going to be.

    I find myself breaking then down into "least posts first as nothing there has imploded" and then work my way up. Lol.


    It's been insane.

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  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    TIME: Michael Cohen now tied to investigation into National Inquirer/AMI paying Trump Tower doorman $30,000 to spike story about Trump fathering child out of wedlock with employee.

    http://time.com/5237359/michael-cohen-national-enquirer-dino-sajudin/


    Everyday a new low. Jesus Mergatroyd Christ.

    Atomika on
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  • DirtmuncherDirtmuncher Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    TIME: Michael Cohen now tied to investigation into National Inquirer/AMI paying Trump Tower doorman $30,000 to spike story about Trump fathering child out of wedlock with employee.

    http://time.com/5237359/michael-cohen-national-enquirer-dino-sajudin/


    Everyday a new low. Jesus Mergatroyd Christ.

    They first gave him a standard contract that he would be payed on publication if the story proved true.
    After a week they made an amendment to the contract which he signed. A NDA for 30.000 dollars and a 1 million dollar penalty if he broke it.

    I speculate that the rumor proved true after a week of investigation and they paid him off.

    steam_sig.png
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    CBS is running with it now:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-tower-doorman-dino-sajudin-national-enquirer-donald-trump-michael-cohen-ap/?ftag=CNM-00-10aac3a


    Their version is that Cohen knew about the story before the deal and had been in talks with AMI as an official Trump representative w/r/t spiking the story.

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  • DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    What's illegal about that? Funding sources, maybe?

    Atomika
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/michael-avenatti-cnn-michael-cohen-i-know-for-a-fact-more-raids/
    Michael Avenatti, the attorney for porn star Stormy Daniels, joined CNN’s Anderson Cooper on Wednesday night to react to the raid on the office, home and hotel room of Donald Trump‘s long-time attorney Michael Cohen.

    A major statement dropped by Avenatti, and you can take his word for it or not, is that he said “I know for a fact” that more raids like the Cohen one will happen in the next week or so.

    “And Anderson, I will tell you, these raids that occurred on Monday, they’re not the last raids. I know that for a fact,” he said. “There are other raids that are contemplated. I anticipate them coming within the next week.”

    Oh please be true...



    Anderson Cooper is the reporter who interviewed Stormy.

    Schrodinger on
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  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    I wouldn't take Avenatti toooo seriously. He's basically stirring the pot for attention in everything else I've seen from him too

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    TIME: Michael Cohen now tied to investigation into National Inquirer/AMI paying Trump Tower doorman $30,000 to spike story about Trump fathering child out of wedlock with employee.

    http://time.com/5237359/michael-cohen-national-enquirer-dino-sajudin/


    Everyday a new low. Jesus Mergatroyd Christ.

    They first gave him a standard contract that he would be payed on publication if the story proved true.
    After a week they made an amendment to the contract which he signed. A NDA for 30.000 dollars and a 1 million dollar penalty if he broke it.

    I speculate that the rumor proved true after a week of investigation and they paid him off.

    This ties into several stories. The National Inquirer approaches witnesses as journalists, witnesses tell all, NI asks them for exclusivity and makes them sign an NDA, story disappears.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    I wouldn't take Avenatti toooo seriously. He's basically stirring the pot for attention in everything else I've seen from him too

    Yeah, like someone said in the Russia thread, while the payoff might have been part of it, that alone wouldn't have been enough to get the judge to sign off on this degree of a warrant

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    One thing I suspect - this is all going to hinge more on the money and where it went than political motivations. If Trump was sitting on a massive Russian moneylaundering network, then these payoffs may represent acts to cover-up a crime. The motivations would be irrelevent.

    I’m also realizing that a trashy Florida media empire like the National Inquirer’s owner has would be a great vehicle for washing dirty money. Dump a millions copies of a print run into a hole, and you could easily pretend they were sold for whatever the Russians needed cleaned this week.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Cohen's payment to Daniels is pretty suspious. I imagine his other payoffs aren't going to look any better financially.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    It is pretty amazing how much the National Inquirer was acting to protect Trump during the election.

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  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Couscous wrote: »
    It is pretty amazing how much the National Inquirer was acting to protect Trump during the election.

    It's not that surprising. I'm pretty sure he's good friends with the owner.

    shadowane on
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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    One thing I suspect - this is all going to hinge more on the money and where it went than political motivations. If Trump was sitting on a massive Russian moneylaundering network, then these payoffs may represent acts to cover-up a crime. The motivations would be irrelevent.

    I’m also realizing that a trashy Florida media empire like the National Inquirer’s owner has would be a great vehicle for washing dirty money. Dump a millions copies of a print run into a hole, and you could easily pretend they were sold for whatever the Russians needed cleaned this week.

    Woah, what the hell. The National Inquirer is a NYC operation. Don't drag us into this.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Enc wrote: »
    One thing I suspect - this is all going to hinge more on the money and where it went than political motivations. If Trump was sitting on a massive Russian moneylaundering network, then these payoffs may represent acts to cover-up a crime. The motivations would be irrelevent.

    I’m also realizing that a trashy Florida media empire like the National Inquirer’s owner has would be a great vehicle for washing dirty money. Dump a millions copies of a print run into a hole, and you could easily pretend they were sold for whatever the Russians needed cleaned this week.

    Woah, what the hell. The National Inquirer is a NYC operation. Don't drag us into this.

    Yeah. It's Enquirer with an "e". I always get that wrong.

    But the Enquirer was out of Boca Raton. Long ago, when I was working in the newspaper business, they were kind of an insider legend. In that, every now and then a local or regional reporter who had wracked up a lot of awards and did some solid investigative work would be approached by them. The deal back then was that they would pay you stupidly well, you would get access to private investigators and a budget to coax interviews, but you would lose all credibility as a mainstream journalist.

    Phillishere on
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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    One thing I suspect - this is all going to hinge more on the money and where it went than political motivations. If Trump was sitting on a massive Russian moneylaundering network, then these payoffs may represent acts to cover-up a crime. The motivations would be irrelevent.

    I’m also realizing that a trashy Florida media empire like the National Inquirer’s owner has would be a great vehicle for washing dirty money. Dump a millions copies of a print run into a hole, and you could easily pretend they were sold for whatever the Russians needed cleaned this week.

    Woah, what the hell. The National Inquirer is a NYC operation. Don't drag us into this.

    Yeah. It's Enquirer with an "e". I always get that wrong.

    But the Enquirer was out of Boca Raton. Long ago, when I was working in the newspaper business, they were kind of an insider legend. In that, every now and then a local or regional reporter who had wracked up a lot of awards and did some solid investigative work would be approached by them. The deal back then was that they would pay you stupidly well, you would get access to private investigators and a budget to coax interviews, but you would lose all credibility as a mainstream journalist.

    Both are NYC businesses since 2014. We kicked those jerks out!

    (Spoiler: its more likely they wanted less crazy people working for their crazy paper).

    Lovely
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    shadowane wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    It is pretty amazing how much the National Inquirer was acting to protect Trump during the election.

    It's not that surprising. I'm pretty sure he's good friends with the owner.

    The issue is what does it mean to be "good friends" with Trump. Is it golfing buddy or laundering Russian mob cash buddy?

    Lovely
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    I wanna know why anyone got paid $30k to stay mum about The Donald having love children if it was bullshit.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    $30k and continued use of thumbs?

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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    shadowane wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    It is pretty amazing how much the National Inquirer was acting to protect Trump during the election.

    It's not that surprising. I'm pretty sure he's good friends with the owner.

    The issue is what does it mean to be "good friends" with Trump. Is it golfing buddy or laundering Russian mob cash buddy?
    I'd bet on "laundering Russian mob cash".

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    I wanna know why anyone got paid $30k to stay mum about The Donald having love children if it was bullshit.

    It’s probably been standard operation to payoff and NDA any potential scandals rather than fight them in the press. Crooks like Trump are often very vulnerable to being scammed, because they have so much to hide.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    And now the Enquirer story is all over CNN in giant red letters.

    Money well spent?

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    And now the Enquirer story is all over CNN in giant red letters.

    Money well spent?

    It's always the coverup

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    And now the Enquirer story is all over CNN in giant red letters.

    Money well spent?

    well i mean

    better now than october 2016

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  • knight11eknight11e Registered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Elendil wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    And now the Enquirer story is all over CNN in giant red letters.

    Money well spent?

    well i mean

    better now than october 2016

    *edit* My mistake

    knight11e on
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    knight11e wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    And now the Enquirer story is all over CNN in giant red letters.

    Money well spent?

    well i mean

    better now than october 2016

    It wouldn't have made a difference. People who would care were already voting against him or wouldn't believe it was true.

    Guess what this thread is NOT about!

    joshofalltrades
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