I'm obviously not familiar with the memes for this particular fandom. What was their thing?
Zero armor constant backstab only vs r1 spam/guts cosplay
Live by the meme, die by the meme
0
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
I see.
Because I play these offline, I'm generally not up on the in-game goofs of invaders. The only time I've been interested in invasions in these games is watching a pair of let's play dudes recently playing through the Souls series (and Bloodborne), and that's because the community around the channel this is happening on (Playframe) are full of more or less genuinely nice people who are invading for goofs and fun, not being jerks (which is my experience in almost all online PvP).
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Because I play these offline, I'm generally not up on the in-game goofs of invaders. The only time I've been interested in invasions in these games is watching a pair of let's play dudes recently playing through the Souls series (and Bloodborne), and that's because the community around the channel this is happening on (Playframe) are full of more or less genuinely nice people who are invading for goofs and fun, not being jerks (which is my experience in almost all online PvP).
Yeah if you watch it you see them try and get a cheap shot in while Im waving, so already I know what kind of match this is.
Then the backturn, which is a backstab bait that would take too long to explain.
Then you’ll notice they were always angled to the side instead of at me, to try and get around. Each time they got met with a big fuckoff combo.
And the last charge they did after I exhausted their estus, I saw what they were doing and just moved backwards and got the open back.
jungleroomx on
+1
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
Because I play these offline, I'm generally not up on the in-game goofs of invaders. The only time I've been interested in invasions in these games is watching a pair of let's play dudes recently playing through the Souls series (and Bloodborne), and that's because the community around the channel this is happening on (Playframe) are full of more or less genuinely nice people who are invading for goofs and fun, not being jerks (which is my experience in almost all online PvP).
Yeah if you watch it you see them try and get a cheap shot in while Im waving, so already I know what kind of match this is.
Then the backturn, which is a backstab bait that would take too long to explain.
Then you’ll notice they were always angled to the side instead of at me, to try and get around. Each time they got met with a big fuckoff combo.
And the last charge they did after I exhausted their estus, I saw what they were doing and just moved backwards and got the open back.
I caught the attempt at the cheap shot (and my first thought was "asshole"), and then the intentional back turn that was just a little too long, as if to say "oh, isn't this such a vulnerable back? Don't you just want to . . . stab it?" I've seen parade floats with more subtlety. What I did not catch was their position in relation to you (i.e. that they were trying to get a cheap one-hit kill on you), but rather that they seemed to be favoring an approach that wasn't working, and they made no attempt to change their tactic (I assume because it was their only tactic).
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
+1
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2021
My favourite no sell moment was the time I was fighting a dialup sounds in ds1 on ps3 and I saw them vanish from in front of me. Literally vanish, the game stopped rendering them, the netcode had decided they were somewhere else.
I immediately turned and attacked my back, just started swinging, and killed them mid backstab fish.
8-)
edit: dramatisation of this moment, from 1:12 up to 1:38
After killing them dozens of times, I'm not sure I believe it's possible to defeat O&S reliably with any arbitrary weapon. Even fighting unlocked, making use of pillars, knowing how to roll Smough's absolute nonsense attacks, being able to smash Ornstein without getting touched in either form...fuck this fight.
I can go in there and slaughter them with a high dps weapon/pyromancy, or run away with a crossbow, but like, just fighting them with a meh melee weapon and being confident I'll one-shot them? I can't get there.
There is one other enemy I feel that way about in DS1 at this point: Bed of Chaos. And technically I can one-shot it reliably if we count quitting out to reset outside of the fog door after progress. Or I guess I could learn to throw firebombs from the center to break both things without having to run around.
tl;dr O&S is objectively worse than Bed of Chaos, don't @ me
So anyway my faith mace character reached Ornstein & Smough without incident, wondering if I should have sucked it up and dived for white chunks and the large divine ember before heading to AL. No reason.
I don't see why there would be any guilt about doing something to progress in a game, especially something that's an intended part of it.
This post was sponsored by Tom Cruise.
+4
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2021
Beat games however you want. Don't pay attention to people who do crazy things, that's their perogative.
Now speaking of crazy, when I did fist run for my first playthrough of DS1, I was mainly using caestus at the start, and Ornstein couldn't be hit by caestus most of the time. His hitbox is somehow smaller than his model pushback, so I couldn't get close enough to actually hit him with the damn weapon. There were specific attacks that could, but after a day of trying I'd had enough. My run was fist weapons, not just Caestus. So I went all the way back through Sens, and got me some fire claws, the ninja flippy ring, and the dragon head for good measure.
Came back and rip and teared both of them the first time.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I can't enjoy Final Fantasy Tactics without the scroll glitch to ease the JP grind.
3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
+1
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Coop isn't necessarily easier anyway. It's a calculated risk.
Enemy health is boosted in coop. This boost doesn't reduce again if your coop partner dies.
It's usually offset by the other partner's extra damage and helping distract the enemy, but it's in no way guaranteed that you could be having a good run. If they get flattened instantly, enjoy your harder boss.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I kind of feel like both the 'easy modes' people talk about for Dark Souls just increase the RNG of your attempts.
Magic can trivialize a boss...if they decide to meander around and don't interrupt you constantly...or it can be a nightmare if they stay in your face swinging fast.
Summoning NPCs or other players can trivialize a boss by letting you swing at their back all day...or it can make them an unpredictable ball of murder with a zillion HP (not to mention the RNG of the NPC AI/Player skill).
+1
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2021
Oh, nah, the first one if you go max glass cannon can turn the more difficult boss fights into literal 2 shots.
Glass canon sounds like a tradeoff, but not really, cos they're dead.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
+2
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited December 2021
Yeah Pyromancy in DS1 is almost an easy mode. I remember watching that speed run where Pyromancy made a joke of the entire game.
Oh, nah, the first one if you go max glass cannon can turn the more difficult boss fights into literal 2 shots.
Glass canon sounds like a tradeoff, but not really, cos they're dead.
I dunno, I'll one or two shot any boss in Souls with a glass cannon melee build using a decent weapon, whereas some bosses just won't give an opening long enough for a nuke unless they choose to.
DS1 pyromancy and DS2 dark are both really strong, but I'm not certain they're better than a proper face-melting melee setup for consistent kills. Well, DS2 Dark can also be face-melting melee, so it probably is.
Anyway, I thought with completion of my hammer run I was done with every melee weapon, but I've realized my spreadsheet lacks fist/claws as a column. Which is probably going to be extremely similar to my dagger run, but whatever, might as well do it. I did 'scythe' as its own category even though the Great Scythe in 1 is just a type of halberd (and separated vertical and horizontal moveset UGS for latter games), so I might as well grit it out.
PS hammers in DS1 didnt feel good to me, low range and chance of stagger and not enough oomph to chain stagger stuff made it feel kinda rough on a lot of fights. Not unwinnable, just not nearly as easy as more versatile melee. I screwed myself doing Faith instead of Physical though, since even with 50 faith and a good talisman the lightning spells are terrible damage and ultra slow. So I just ended up macing everything with split damage anyway.
Kamar on
+2
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2021
Lemme put it this way.
Most speedrunners in demon souls use magic, not *insert very high damage melee weapon of choice*.
It is the same in ds1.
These are people at the very top of the efficiency and consistency sphere. So if that's what they use, I'm gonna listen to that.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Most speedrunners in demon souls use magic, not *insert very high damage melee weapon of choice*.
It is the same in ds1.
These are people at the very top of the efficiency and consistency sphere. So if that's what they use, I'm gonna listen to that.
???
Last I looked at DS1 runs, they were all melee runs with BKGS or BKH without glitches, or Dragon Tooth rapier moveswap runs.
It looks to still be DT runs now.
+6
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
There was a recent skip found that needs magic.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2021
Anyway none of the bosses in either game are as hard to get away from for long enough to land two ranged spells as you are claiming.
Pretty much all souls bosses are easier to deal with at range cos it limits their combos and lets you bait gap closers. You have less attacks to deal with and consider.
I dont really know where this boss is that literally wont let you get away if you really want to but I havent fought one. Escaping to get to get time to drink is a thing you can do in all bosses and if you can get away with that you can land a spell.
Its certainly not mindless, you do need timing and baiting against some, but melee damage is definitely more dangerous.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I'll admit I forgot how good magic is in DeS, but as far as I know or can find in none of the others is offensive magic used for speedruns. You'll see certain buffs or going OOB with Fall Control or whatever.
I dunno. I'll admit I'm bad at using damaging spells outside of, like, DeS magic or DS2 Dark Orb spam, but I struggle to believe I'm worse at using magic than a new player in the others at this point, and even with everything set up right I can't see offensive magic being any freer for kills across the series than stuff like ugs poise builds or sword-and-board. It requires the biggest openings to capitalize on, usually doesn't trade as reliably as an equally slow melee, and is far more likely to just whiff entirely for no real reason.
I really just don't see it as being an actual 'easy mode' any more than the better melee weapons (outside of DeS, where yeah, it is easy mode).
Kamar on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I remember when I first played Demon's and was widely warned against doing Royal as a first run, and loved every second of the uphill struggle, before eventually becoming an unstoppable high sorcerer raining destruction on everything in his wake.
0
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
Anyway none of the bosses in either game are as hard to get away from for long enough to land two ranged spells as you are claiming.
Pretty much all souls bosses are easier to deal with at range cos it limits their combos and lets you bait gap closers. You have less attacks to deal with and consider.
I dont really know where this boss is that literally wont let you get away if you really want to but I havent fought one. Escaping to get to get time to drink is a thing you can do in all bosses and if you can get away with that you can land a spell.
Its certainly not mindless, you do need timing and baiting against some, but melee damage is definitely more dangerous.
Artorias doesn't let up, and he's more or less configured to constantly be in the range to punish magic. Fume Knight and Sir Alonne too.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
it's been ages since I watched a Demon's Souls speedrun but what I remember is basically coasting on the magic sword you can get or skip to early on in the skeleton ruins zone with, some magic backing that up
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Anyway none of the bosses in either game are as hard to get away from for long enough to land two ranged spells as you are claiming.
Pretty much all souls bosses are easier to deal with at range cos it limits their combos and lets you bait gap closers. You have less attacks to deal with and consider.
I dont really know where this boss is that literally wont let you get away if you really want to but I havent fought one. Escaping to get to get time to drink is a thing you can do in all bosses and if you can get away with that you can land a spell.
Its certainly not mindless, you do need timing and baiting against some, but melee damage is definitely more dangerous.
Artorias doesn't let up, and he's more or less configured to constantly be in the range to punish magic. Fume Knight and Sir Alonne too.
He has decently long recoveries on his long range gap closers. You can land a spell after dodging and then back off.
I'll admit I haven't fought either of those two yet, I haven't played their dlcs far enough. Casting speed in ds2 could be lightning fast though with the high damaging dark spells tho, so I doubt you can't find any windows.
More on the topic: ds1 in particular lets you fully invest in vit, stam and dex for cast speed while also using a pyro flame which is op not for its ranged spells (which are still op) and firestorm so much as the combustion series. These are extremely quick casts, fast recovery, very high damage, and have bigger hitboxes than the vast majority of melee weapons. Prefer fighting in melee? Find it easier to fight x boss in melee? You still can, with tons of health and stamina, and a shield. And you can still ranged lolol anything that gets totalled by that. Ultimate flexibility.
There's also crystal homing soulmass for anything that is a pain to aim at but you have time to actually cast, since its a pretty quick cast. So you can just cast, then focus on dodging them, and they get auto smacked.
But honestly, crystal soul spear makes the game a joke. You can kill artorias before he even gets to you. It's only two casts, and you can get them off lightning quick with a properly focused cast build.
Also don't forget that fog ring + magic = you win pve prior to bosses. The game is just a succession of casts with the fog ring. You can lock on and cast outside of their detection range with your heaviest spell. You can get that relatively early in ds 1 if you know where to get it.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
What kind of stats are you expecting people to fight Artorias with to two-shot him with Crystal Soul Spear? I see people talking about needing multiple copies of Soul Spear and their casts of CSS to down him. I did my hammer run with 50 faith because I had never done a super basic cleric build. with ivory talisman casting Great Sunlight Spear (3.0 multiplier, not much weaker than the 3.3 of CSS) it basically wasn't worth casting for damage (nevermind it specifically being so slow as to be almost unusable, pretty sure CSS isn't nearly as slow) except against a few enemies that are trivial at range but dangerous up close, and the only boss I used it on was Seeth because of lightning damage vs. the magic on my divine mace.
To two-shot bosses, I'd need to be doing I dunno, an absolutely massive amount more damage. At least 3x. TCC gets you like 50% more madj than a faith talisman can, plus the crown of dusk, rings...I don't see it. Power within? RTR?
I'm not sure glass canon hyper mode setups are going to give people reliable kills without much skill. And I'm not sure an equally stacked melee build isn't just as easy or easier, i.e. me walking up and beating Artorias to death with a hammer in Havel's without blocking or dodging, drinking right through his attacks as necessary.
Kamar on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited December 2021
I went to look at Dank Souls 1 speed runs. Looks like it's all melee and resins these days. Much different to the old pyromancy spell abuse of old.
Edit: The old dragon tooth making a mockery of O&S lol.
Every run I have seen of DS1 for the past few years has been melee, but only because they abuse the weapon swap glitch. I know the black knight greatsword used to be the go-to before that. Never seen a strictly magic focused speed run that was at the top of the leaderboards, at least not for 1.
I thought there could also be a factor of speedruns not using magic because magic takes more investment of souls to get anywhere, but apparently there are plenty of working glitches to get a ludicrous amount of souls even in the current patch of DS:R, so.
I thought there could also be a factor of speedruns not using magic because magic takes more investment of souls to get anywhere, but apparently there are plenty of working glitches to get a ludicrous amount of souls even in the current patch of DS:R, so.
Yeah the dupe glitch works and it looks fairly easy to do.
+1
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I thought there could also be a factor of speedruns not using magic because magic takes more investment of souls to get anywhere, but apparently there are plenty of working glitches to get a ludicrous amount of souls even in the current patch of DS:R, so.
Yeah you can get a couple hundred million souls in about 15 seconds so that's not really a big deal.
Posts
Zero armor constant backstab only vs r1 spam/guts cosplay
Live by the meme, die by the meme
Because I play these offline, I'm generally not up on the in-game goofs of invaders. The only time I've been interested in invasions in these games is watching a pair of let's play dudes recently playing through the Souls series (and Bloodborne), and that's because the community around the channel this is happening on (Playframe) are full of more or less genuinely nice people who are invading for goofs and fun, not being jerks (which is my experience in almost all online PvP).
Atomic Karate
Dark Souls Bloodborne "Trick" Weapons (not a mod)
Yeah if you watch it you see them try and get a cheap shot in while Im waving, so already I know what kind of match this is.
Then the backturn, which is a backstab bait that would take too long to explain.
Then you’ll notice they were always angled to the side instead of at me, to try and get around. Each time they got met with a big fuckoff combo.
And the last charge they did after I exhausted their estus, I saw what they were doing and just moved backwards and got the open back.
I caught the attempt at the cheap shot (and my first thought was "asshole"), and then the intentional back turn that was just a little too long, as if to say "oh, isn't this such a vulnerable back? Don't you just want to . . . stab it?" I've seen parade floats with more subtlety. What I did not catch was their position in relation to you (i.e. that they were trying to get a cheap one-hit kill on you), but rather that they seemed to be favoring an approach that wasn't working, and they made no attempt to change their tactic (I assume because it was their only tactic).
I immediately turned and attacked my back, just started swinging, and killed them mid backstab fish.
8-)
edit: dramatisation of this moment, from 1:12 up to 1:38
I can go in there and slaughter them with a high dps weapon/pyromancy, or run away with a crossbow, but like, just fighting them with a meh melee weapon and being confident I'll one-shot them? I can't get there.
There is one other enemy I feel that way about in DS1 at this point: Bed of Chaos. And technically I can one-shot it reliably if we count quitting out to reset outside of the fog door after progress. Or I guess I could learn to throw firebombs from the center to break both things without having to run around.
tl;dr O&S is objectively worse than Bed of Chaos, don't @ me
Now speaking of crazy, when I did fist run for my first playthrough of DS1, I was mainly using caestus at the start, and Ornstein couldn't be hit by caestus most of the time. His hitbox is somehow smaller than his model pushback, so I couldn't get close enough to actually hit him with the damn weapon. There were specific attacks that could, but after a day of trying I'd had enough. My run was fist weapons, not just Caestus. So I went all the way back through Sens, and got me some fire claws, the ninja flippy ring, and the dragon head for good measure.
Came back and rip and teared both of them the first time.
Enemy health is boosted in coop. This boost doesn't reduce again if your coop partner dies.
It's usually offset by the other partner's extra damage and helping distract the enemy, but it's in no way guaranteed that you could be having a good run. If they get flattened instantly, enjoy your harder boss.
Magic can trivialize a boss...if they decide to meander around and don't interrupt you constantly...or it can be a nightmare if they stay in your face swinging fast.
Summoning NPCs or other players can trivialize a boss by letting you swing at their back all day...or it can make them an unpredictable ball of murder with a zillion HP (not to mention the RNG of the NPC AI/Player skill).
Glass canon sounds like a tradeoff, but not really, cos they're dead.
Just fucking annihilate them.
I dunno, I'll one or two shot any boss in Souls with a glass cannon melee build using a decent weapon, whereas some bosses just won't give an opening long enough for a nuke unless they choose to.
DS1 pyromancy and DS2 dark are both really strong, but I'm not certain they're better than a proper face-melting melee setup for consistent kills. Well, DS2 Dark can also be face-melting melee, so it probably is.
Anyway, I thought with completion of my hammer run I was done with every melee weapon, but I've realized my spreadsheet lacks fist/claws as a column. Which is probably going to be extremely similar to my dagger run, but whatever, might as well do it. I did 'scythe' as its own category even though the Great Scythe in 1 is just a type of halberd (and separated vertical and horizontal moveset UGS for latter games), so I might as well grit it out.
PS hammers in DS1 didnt feel good to me, low range and chance of stagger and not enough oomph to chain stagger stuff made it feel kinda rough on a lot of fights. Not unwinnable, just not nearly as easy as more versatile melee. I screwed myself doing Faith instead of Physical though, since even with 50 faith and a good talisman the lightning spells are terrible damage and ultra slow. So I just ended up macing everything with split damage anyway.
Most speedrunners in demon souls use magic, not *insert very high damage melee weapon of choice*.
It is the same in ds1.
These are people at the very top of the efficiency and consistency sphere. So if that's what they use, I'm gonna listen to that.
???
Last I looked at DS1 runs, they were all melee runs with BKGS or BKH without glitches, or Dragon Tooth rapier moveswap runs.
It looks to still be DT runs now.
Pretty much all souls bosses are easier to deal with at range cos it limits their combos and lets you bait gap closers. You have less attacks to deal with and consider.
I dont really know where this boss is that literally wont let you get away if you really want to but I havent fought one. Escaping to get to get time to drink is a thing you can do in all bosses and if you can get away with that you can land a spell.
Its certainly not mindless, you do need timing and baiting against some, but melee damage is definitely more dangerous.
I dunno. I'll admit I'm bad at using damaging spells outside of, like, DeS magic or DS2 Dark Orb spam, but I struggle to believe I'm worse at using magic than a new player in the others at this point, and even with everything set up right I can't see offensive magic being any freer for kills across the series than stuff like ugs poise builds or sword-and-board. It requires the biggest openings to capitalize on, usually doesn't trade as reliably as an equally slow melee, and is far more likely to just whiff entirely for no real reason.
I really just don't see it as being an actual 'easy mode' any more than the better melee weapons (outside of DeS, where yeah, it is easy mode).
Artorias doesn't let up, and he's more or less configured to constantly be in the range to punish magic. Fume Knight and Sir Alonne too.
He has decently long recoveries on his long range gap closers. You can land a spell after dodging and then back off.
I'll admit I haven't fought either of those two yet, I haven't played their dlcs far enough. Casting speed in ds2 could be lightning fast though with the high damaging dark spells tho, so I doubt you can't find any windows.
More on the topic: ds1 in particular lets you fully invest in vit, stam and dex for cast speed while also using a pyro flame which is op not for its ranged spells (which are still op) and firestorm so much as the combustion series. These are extremely quick casts, fast recovery, very high damage, and have bigger hitboxes than the vast majority of melee weapons. Prefer fighting in melee? Find it easier to fight x boss in melee? You still can, with tons of health and stamina, and a shield. And you can still ranged lolol anything that gets totalled by that. Ultimate flexibility.
There's also crystal homing soulmass for anything that is a pain to aim at but you have time to actually cast, since its a pretty quick cast. So you can just cast, then focus on dodging them, and they get auto smacked.
But honestly, crystal soul spear makes the game a joke. You can kill artorias before he even gets to you. It's only two casts, and you can get them off lightning quick with a properly focused cast build.
Also don't forget that fog ring + magic = you win pve prior to bosses. The game is just a succession of casts with the fog ring. You can lock on and cast outside of their detection range with your heaviest spell. You can get that relatively early in ds 1 if you know where to get it.
To two-shot bosses, I'd need to be doing I dunno, an absolutely massive amount more damage. At least 3x. TCC gets you like 50% more madj than a faith talisman can, plus the crown of dusk, rings...I don't see it. Power within? RTR?
I'm not sure glass canon hyper mode setups are going to give people reliable kills without much skill. And I'm not sure an equally stacked melee build isn't just as easy or easier, i.e. me walking up and beating Artorias to death with a hammer in Havel's without blocking or dodging, drinking right through his attacks as necessary.
Edit: The old dragon tooth making a mockery of O&S lol.
PSN:Furlion
edit: maybe not, apparently melee is vaible for it
Yeah the dupe glitch works and it looks fairly easy to do.
Yeah you can get a couple hundred million souls in about 15 seconds so that's not really a big deal.
Dark Bead is ridiculous when you've got 99 int.