I learned on a manual when I was fifteen. It definitely took ... several hours and a lot of stalling before I got the hang of it. I did, apparently, no major damage.
I think the problem is people who are so terrified of stalling they just gas the hell out of it.
Stalling is really harder on the neck than the car. Revving and dropping the clutch is more damaging to the transmission than the clutch. But over revving and letting the clutch slip for extended periods will quickly generate a lot of heat that can damage the flywheel surface, permanently reducing it's holding capacity until replaced/resurfaced.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
When I was car shopping last year there were essentially zero manuals even available. I think it's only really even an option any more in the sports car segment.
They're getting rarer. Shit, my car is a 2010 and manual wasn't even an option on them. It has flappy paddles, and I like that they offer more control than a regular automatic, but it's just not the same.
When I was shopping, I looked up "AWD coupes" and while that is a very short list, none of the ones I saw had a manual option except for one, I think.
I'm pretty sure even the WRX has no manual option, though the STi does. They truly are dying out.
When I was car shopping last year there were essentially zero manuals even available. I think it's only really even an option any more in the sports car segment.
They're getting rarer. Shit, my car is a 2010 and manual wasn't even an option on them. It has flappy paddles, and I like that they offer more control than a regular automatic, but it's just not the same.
When I was shopping, I looked up "AWD coupes" and while that is a very short list, none of the ones I saw had a manual option except for one, I think.
I'm pretty sure even the WRX has no manual option, though the STi does. They truly are dying out.
This is false, WRX comes with manual still. In fact, you can't even buy the base WRX with an auto, and auto is an option on the two upper trims. STI is manual-only.
m!ttens on
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Oh, hm. My memory is faulty then.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Yea I am currently in a 2017 WRX that is manual. But when I sell it it may be the last manual car I ever own. Which is weird!
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
My 2014 Ecoboost Fiesta only came in manual. I prefer manual myself. Over the last 15 years of driving I've had more problems with automatics than manuals.
My 2014 Ecoboost Fiesta only came in manual. I prefer manual myself. Over the last 15 years of driving I've had more problems with automatics than manuals.
If I could have taken a manual, I would have, but paddle shifters are pretty neat, too, and being able to just put it in auto when in traffic or tooling around the neighbourhood is nice, too.
My left foot still occasionally goes looking for the clutch.
My GTI is DSG and it's so nice being able to switch between a very good automatic and a responsive manual mode for when I want more engagement. I'm not entirely sure I want a manual in my day to day driving, but not even knowing how to do it is something I'm ashamed of as a car/driving enthusiast.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I wouldn't worry too much about that. High end sports cars are, more and more, becoming this way as well. Not straight automatics, but the semi-auto of paddle shifters (I imagine they can just be put in automatic anyway, but I don't have a supercar/hypercar to know :P)
Like, after my experience with shopping for a car in the range that I was, and almost none of them having a manual option, I would say you can be a car enthusiast, even a sports car enthusiast, and have never driven a manual.
I'm really glad I had a manual car for 9 years, though. They are just so much fun.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
edited February 2019
Paddle shifters in a dual clutch = good
Paddle shifters in most other things are mostly just for show and probably perform worse than leaving it in automatic mode.
Manuals are effectively dead. Next gen Corvette is reportedly auto only. BMW is auto only except for the M3/Z4. All super/hyper cars are automatic. Autos are faster and more efficient than manuals today, there's just no reason for anyone to buy one outside of enthusiasts who really love the driving experience - and then Venn diagram of "manual driving enthusiasts" and "people willing to buy new cars" is vanishingly small.
The only remaining holdouts are a handful of economy cars, Mazda, the muscle cars, and Porsche.
Paddle shifters in a dual clutch = good
Paddle shifters in most other things are mostly just for show and probably perform worse than leaving it in automatic mode.
Yeah, the transmission in my Q60S is not super awesome. I leave it in automatic almost all the time, but where manual mode is nice is stuff like preparing for a pass, you get the responsiveness of having the lower gear already selected when opposing traffic clears.
True, the vast majority of performance cars are automatics of one form or another. Problem I'm running into is a bunch of the cars I'm interested in are manual only. If I were to get another GTI it would be DSG without a second thought, but now that the Veloster N and the Civic Type R are also options for similar money I'd prefer to not immediately eliminate them based on transmission alone. The Accord Sport is also a possible option but I've read mixed things about it's automatic constantly hunting for gears, and even if it might be hard to find the manual is again worth considering (for my day to day use I would likely be fine with the auto).
Manuals are effectively dead. Next gen Corvette is reportedly auto only. BMW is auto only except for the M3/Z4. All super/hyper cars are automatic. Autos are faster and more efficient than manuals today, there's just no reason for anyone to buy one outside of enthusiasts who really love the driving experience - and then Venn diagram of "manual driving enthusiasts" and "people willing to buy new cars" is vanishingly small.
The only remaining holdouts are a handful of economy cars, Mazda, the muscle cars, and Porsche.
As long as they keep offering proper flappy paddles in certain sportier cars I can live with this.
Just need that "still shifts as fast as computer can but allows you to actually have full control over you gear" option.
Having driven a few automatics in competitive and track day events, the paddles are pretty much worthless. The computer is almost always faster than you, especially when you start getting into 8/10 speed transmissions.
The only exception was autocross. When I was running an automatic Camaro, we found a 2nd gear launch to be beneficial, so we would roll up to the line, shift to 2nd, and make the trans hold 2nd for the entire course.
Having driven a few automatics in competitive and track day events, the paddles are pretty much worthless. The computer is almost always faster than you, especially when you start getting into 8/10 speed transmissions.
The only exception was autocross. When I was running an automatic Camaro, we found a 2nd gear launch to be beneficial, so we would roll up to the line, shift to 2nd, and make the trans hold 2nd for the entire course.
Yea that's why I was saying before with DCTs you use the paddles. They are fast and what the car intends you to use for sporty driving. The auto mode there is usually there to give you the option to not use the shifters when you don't want but a lot of times still feels a bit clunky.
For autos that just happen to have paddles you let that auto do it's thing. They are the other way around. The paddles are the extra option there to appease people and give the feeling of extra sportiness even if slower.
But I think I would just prefer to have a DCT and drive it in manual mode all the time.
I had to postpone my test drive of the 2019 Dodge Ram 1500 until next week, and I have it specced out to what I want and even found a dealer with exactly what I would like.
However, the Internet Sales Guy I have been talking to offhandedly mentioned that this particular truck has been 'driven by the Manager' and with further questioning admitted that the truck has 2,130 miles on it.
He is claiming that is 'new'.
I'm confident in moving onto another dealership, correct?
Now with EVs you don't even need a brake pedal. Single pedal mode is pretty common in most new EVs.
Wait what
Can you explain this
Regenerative braking can be dialed up such that you don’t need to use the physical brakes. As you lift off the throttle the ... whatever the mechanism is... kicks in so strongly that you almost don’t have to brake at, for instance, stoplights. It becomes more like 40% throttle = 40mph and 60% throttle = 60 mph and 0% throttle = 0mph.
It’s very disconcerting initially.
The brakes are there, of course, in case something unexpected happens but you genuinely don’t need it most of the time.
Now with EVs you don't even need a brake pedal. Single pedal mode is pretty common in most new EVs.
Wait what
Can you explain this
Regenerative breaking. Most EVs use breaking to generate electricity to recharge the batteries, and many of them took the next step and removed coasting. So when you let off the gas, instead of just putting the engine into neutral and letting it coast, it applies some moderate breaking power from running the regenerative breaking. This is what I've seen in most EVs. If you pay attention and leave a lot of space you can use the moderate breaking to bring you to a stop, and never need to actually press the brake pedal.
I suppose you could take it to the next level (i'm not aware of any cars that do this right now), and set it up so that all the way off the gas is equal to all the way on the break. Half way depressed is maintain speed, full depressed is accelerate, fully released is break hard. But that just seems like a recipe for cramping and unexpected breaking.
Personally I hate cars that don't coast.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
Now with EVs you don't even need a brake pedal. Single pedal mode is pretty common in most new EVs.
Wait what
Can you explain this
Regenerative breaking. Most EVs use breaking to generate electricity to recharge the batteries, and many of them took the next step and removed coasting. So when you let off the gas, instead of just putting the engine into neutral and letting it coast, it applies some moderate breaking power from running the regenerative breaking. This is what I've seen in most EVs. If you pay attention and leave a lot of space you can use the moderate breaking to bring you to a stop, and never need to actually press the brake pedal.
I suppose you could take it to the next level (i'm not aware of any cars that do this right now), and set it up so that all the way off the gas is equal to all the way on the break. Half way depressed is maintain speed, full depressed is accelerate, fully released is break hard. But that just seems like a recipe for cramping and unexpected breaking.
Personally I hate cars that don't coast.
Well, in the Teslas at least, all of this stuff can be modified by the driver. You can have it creep at idle, or not. You can set how aggressively the regenerative braking kicks in, etc...
Also they're almost intended to be used with the smart cruise control features, so maintaining constant 70% throttle pressure isn't really required.
Car insurance is up about £50 from last year. Researching on comparison site showed I would have had to take a significant coverage cut (like no roadside or something on top of definitely no key or legal cover) or go somewhere with a literal 1* rating on Trustpilot to even get in the ballpark with someone else. I blame Brexit.
Now with EVs you don't even need a brake pedal. Single pedal mode is pretty common in most new EVs.
Wait what
Can you explain this
Regenerative breaking. Most EVs use breaking to generate electricity to recharge the batteries, and many of them took the next step and removed coasting. So when you let off the gas, instead of just putting the engine into neutral and letting it coast, it applies some moderate breaking power from running the regenerative breaking. This is what I've seen in most EVs. If you pay attention and leave a lot of space you can use the moderate breaking to bring you to a stop, and never need to actually press the brake pedal.
I suppose you could take it to the next level (i'm not aware of any cars that do this right now), and set it up so that all the way off the gas is equal to all the way on the break. Half way depressed is maintain speed, full depressed is accelerate, fully released is break hard. But that just seems like a recipe for cramping and unexpected breaking.
Personally I hate cars that don't coast.
Well, in the Teslas at least, all of this stuff can be modified by the driver. You can have it creep at idle, or not. You can set how aggressively the regenerative braking kicks in, etc...
Also they're almost intended to be used with the smart cruise control features, so maintaining constant 70% throttle pressure isn't really required.
Likewise, the 2018 Nissan Leaf has three braking modes, the most aggressive of which is designed for one-pedal driving. I've never test driven one, but supposedly in E-pedal mode you don't even need the brake pedal to stop and sit still when going downhill.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
I had to postpone my test drive of the 2019 Dodge Ram 1500 until next week, and I have it specced out to what I want and even found a dealer with exactly what I would like.
However, the Internet Sales Guy I have been talking to offhandedly mentioned that this particular truck has been 'driven by the Manager' and with further questioning admitted that the truck has 2,130 miles on it.
He is claiming that is 'new'.
I'm confident in moving onto another dealership, correct?
I had to postpone my test drive of the 2019 Dodge Ram 1500 until next week, and I have it specced out to what I want and even found a dealer with exactly what I would like.
However, the Internet Sales Guy I have been talking to offhandedly mentioned that this particular truck has been 'driven by the Manager' and with further questioning admitted that the truck has 2,130 miles on it.
He is claiming that is 'new'.
I'm confident in moving onto another dealership, correct?
Yeah I would move on.
Or at the very least wrangle a substantial discount.
I had to postpone my test drive of the 2019 Dodge Ram 1500 until next week, and I have it specced out to what I want and even found a dealer with exactly what I would like.
However, the Internet Sales Guy I have been talking to offhandedly mentioned that this particular truck has been 'driven by the Manager' and with further questioning admitted that the truck has 2,130 miles on it.
He is claiming that is 'new'.
I'm confident in moving onto another dealership, correct?
Yeah I would move on.
Or at the very least wrangle a substantial discount.
I would still move on. I wouldn't trust anything they'd sell me now.
I had to postpone my test drive of the 2019 Dodge Ram 1500 until next week, and I have it specced out to what I want and even found a dealer with exactly what I would like.
However, the Internet Sales Guy I have been talking to offhandedly mentioned that this particular truck has been 'driven by the Manager' and with further questioning admitted that the truck has 2,130 miles on it.
He is claiming that is 'new'.
I'm confident in moving onto another dealership, correct?
Yeah I would move on.
Or at the very least wrangle a substantial discount.
I would still move on. I wouldn't trust anything they'd sell me now.
At least they're being upfront about what it's done. But yeah, I wouldn't blame anyone for moving on.
I guess I still kind of expect a certain non-zero degree of bullshit from car salesmen.
I had to postpone my test drive of the 2019 Dodge Ram 1500 until next week, and I have it specced out to what I want and even found a dealer with exactly what I would like.
However, the Internet Sales Guy I have been talking to offhandedly mentioned that this particular truck has been 'driven by the Manager' and with further questioning admitted that the truck has 2,130 miles on it.
He is claiming that is 'new'.
I'm confident in moving onto another dealership, correct?
That's a demo car level of mileage. Anything over 300 miles should disqualify it as "new". 2100 should put the car at sticker price minus average "drove off the lot" depreciation. If they're not willing to drop a good 10-15% off sticker, they're not worth it.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
My Fiesta was selected for additional road testing at the factory and came to me with 64 miles. All of it was clearly marked and the dealer was very upfront about it. I took it as a good sign that they really put the car through its paces to make sure it was road ready.
If hardly consider a vehicle with over 500 miles on it new anymore. 2130 miles is what you see some lease trade-ins being offered at. That qualifies as used in my book.
As somebody whose vehicles are both at or past the 200,000 mile mark, 2,000 miles doesn't really seem significant. Warranty eligibility will take the mileage at time of sale into account, so it's not eating into your warranty. If it was the vehicle I wanted with the options I wanted I wouldn't really blink at it, I'd just negotiate a small discount based on the additional miles and roll with it.
Now, if they're a stickler on price and insist and pricing it the same as a 0 mile example, for sure laugh in their face and walk away. Federal mileage reimbursement rate is $0.58/mi, so figure around $1,200 off as a fair discount.
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
You're buying a NEW car. Not a car that someone else has driven around for a while. A NEW car doesn't already have someone else's microbiome inhabiting it already. It absolutely is significant.
Every car has been driven around before you bought it, from the guys driving it around the lot at the factory, to the guy loading it on the truck, to the guy loading it on the ship, to the guy loading it on to the next truck, to the lot attendant pulling it up for you at the dealer. Lots of those people - most of them, if we're going to be honest - do not give a shit about the car you're going to eventually buy. They fart in it, squeal the tires, gun it up the loading ramp onto the boat, and generally do stuff you'd rather not know about because they're getting paid minimum wage and they don't care.
Unless you're buying a bespoke exotic priced high into the 6 figures, nobody is carefully handling cars with white gloves before you buy them. They all get ragged on. 2,000 miles of a manager driving it home every night hardly means anything, provided they're willing to give you a discount for the extra miles.
Every car has been driven around before you bought it, from the guys driving it around the lot at the factory, to the guy loading it on the truck, to the guy loading it on the ship, to the guy loading it on to the next truck, to the lot attendant pulling it up for you at the dealer. Lots of those people - most of them, if we're going to be honest - do not give a shit about the car you're going to eventually buy. They fart in it, squeal the tires, gun it up the loading ramp onto the boat, and generally do stuff you'd rather not know about because they're getting paid minimum wage and they don't care.
Unless you're buying a bespoke exotic priced high into the 6 figures, nobody is carefully handling cars with white gloves before you buy them. They all get ragged on. 2,000 miles of a manager driving it home every night hardly means anything, provided they're willing to give you a discount for the extra miles.
Yea I mean that last part is the thing. That amount can very a lot for what it means to different people when they are buying a supposedly new car that has already been treated as a daily driver for someone else. Which is usually the exact reason that particular person may be avoiding buy a used car at all.
Also yes we know the cars get driven and tested and transported. But this is a case of after all of that someone has basically claimed it as their daily driver up until you bought it. Which is certainly a bit different at least to me. Every extra mile driven is more chances that the car was ragged on hard even more. Like if you agree that those first 100 miles on the odometer probably had some hard driving then 2000 miles is 20x the miles with potentially that much more rough driving.
Plus 2000 miles is a lot of miles to some people. I drive about 10,000miles per year. So that's multiple months worth of the cars life. It's that many more miles of wear on the tires(which means a whole lot when you buy a sporty car where the stock tires wear out between 10k and 20k miles and cost $2000 to replace) and that much closer to the first service. The situation is always different but in plenty of situations that 2000 miles means a whole lot.
DemonStacey on
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
I went to the local auto show this past weekend, primarily for my Dad to get a better idea of what cars he wants to trade in his current car for, but also for me to check out a few cars that I'd like to replace my MK6 GTI with in a year or so.
Unfortunately, I think I've fallen hard for the Civic Type R despite some significant issues. First off, it's not as nearly as ugly in person as I would have thought. Honestly though, the seats are what sold me on it. By far the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in and when you're inside you can't see how it looks on the outside. A few problems aside from the looks though. I currently can't drive a manual, the markup may still be significant in a year or so (assuming I can even finance or lease one for the sticker price), no heated seats, tires are terribly expensive (winter tires + wheels would be $1500'ish), insurance may be rather expensive, and the looks even in black are still questionable.
Good chance I'll be sensible and end up in a MK8 GTI.
Been a while though since something made me really evaluate both the financial, logistical, and aesthetic possibility of something. I might still look into getting private driving lessons this summer to learn how to drive a manual transmission.
I don't like the Civic Type R (not the car's fault), and I've driven a Golf for the last ten years which I think is an absolutely fantastic automobile.
Out of the two cars you mentioned, you should get the Honda.
Posts
Stalling is really harder on the neck than the car. Revving and dropping the clutch is more damaging to the transmission than the clutch. But over revving and letting the clutch slip for extended periods will quickly generate a lot of heat that can damage the flywheel surface, permanently reducing it's holding capacity until replaced/resurfaced.
When I was shopping, I looked up "AWD coupes" and while that is a very short list, none of the ones I saw had a manual option except for one, I think.
I'm pretty sure even the WRX has no manual option, though the STi does. They truly are dying out.
This is false, WRX comes with manual still. In fact, you can't even buy the base WRX with an auto, and auto is an option on the two upper trims. STI is manual-only.
If I could have taken a manual, I would have, but paddle shifters are pretty neat, too, and being able to just put it in auto when in traffic or tooling around the neighbourhood is nice, too.
My left foot still occasionally goes looking for the clutch.
Like, after my experience with shopping for a car in the range that I was, and almost none of them having a manual option, I would say you can be a car enthusiast, even a sports car enthusiast, and have never driven a manual.
I'm really glad I had a manual car for 9 years, though. They are just so much fun.
Paddle shifters in most other things are mostly just for show and probably perform worse than leaving it in automatic mode.
The only remaining holdouts are a handful of economy cars, Mazda, the muscle cars, and Porsche.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Yeah, the transmission in my Q60S is not super awesome. I leave it in automatic almost all the time, but where manual mode is nice is stuff like preparing for a pass, you get the responsiveness of having the lower gear already selected when opposing traffic clears.
As long as they keep offering proper flappy paddles in certain sportier cars I can live with this.
Just need that "still shifts as fast as computer can but allows you to actually have full control over you gear" option.
The only exception was autocross. When I was running an automatic Camaro, we found a 2nd gear launch to be beneficial, so we would roll up to the line, shift to 2nd, and make the trans hold 2nd for the entire course.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Yea that's why I was saying before with DCTs you use the paddles. They are fast and what the car intends you to use for sporty driving. The auto mode there is usually there to give you the option to not use the shifters when you don't want but a lot of times still feels a bit clunky.
For autos that just happen to have paddles you let that auto do it's thing. They are the other way around. The paddles are the extra option there to appease people and give the feeling of extra sportiness even if slower.
But I think I would just prefer to have a DCT and drive it in manual mode all the time.
However, the Internet Sales Guy I have been talking to offhandedly mentioned that this particular truck has been 'driven by the Manager' and with further questioning admitted that the truck has 2,130 miles on it.
He is claiming that is 'new'.
I'm confident in moving onto another dealership, correct?
Wait what
Can you explain this
Regenerative braking can be dialed up such that you don’t need to use the physical brakes. As you lift off the throttle the ... whatever the mechanism is... kicks in so strongly that you almost don’t have to brake at, for instance, stoplights. It becomes more like 40% throttle = 40mph and 60% throttle = 60 mph and 0% throttle = 0mph.
It’s very disconcerting initially.
The brakes are there, of course, in case something unexpected happens but you genuinely don’t need it most of the time.
Regenerative breaking. Most EVs use breaking to generate electricity to recharge the batteries, and many of them took the next step and removed coasting. So when you let off the gas, instead of just putting the engine into neutral and letting it coast, it applies some moderate breaking power from running the regenerative breaking. This is what I've seen in most EVs. If you pay attention and leave a lot of space you can use the moderate breaking to bring you to a stop, and never need to actually press the brake pedal.
I suppose you could take it to the next level (i'm not aware of any cars that do this right now), and set it up so that all the way off the gas is equal to all the way on the break. Half way depressed is maintain speed, full depressed is accelerate, fully released is break hard. But that just seems like a recipe for cramping and unexpected breaking.
Personally I hate cars that don't coast.
Well, in the Teslas at least, all of this stuff can be modified by the driver. You can have it creep at idle, or not. You can set how aggressively the regenerative braking kicks in, etc...
Also they're almost intended to be used with the smart cruise control features, so maintaining constant 70% throttle pressure isn't really required.
Steam | XBL
Likewise, the 2018 Nissan Leaf has three braking modes, the most aggressive of which is designed for one-pedal driving. I've never test driven one, but supposedly in E-pedal mode you don't even need the brake pedal to stop and sit still when going downhill.
Yeah I would move on.
Or at the very least wrangle a substantial discount.
Steam | XBL
I would still move on. I wouldn't trust anything they'd sell me now.
At least they're being upfront about what it's done. But yeah, I wouldn't blame anyone for moving on.
I guess I still kind of expect a certain non-zero degree of bullshit from car salesmen.
Steam | XBL
That's a demo car level of mileage. Anything over 300 miles should disqualify it as "new". 2100 should put the car at sticker price minus average "drove off the lot" depreciation. If they're not willing to drop a good 10-15% off sticker, they're not worth it.
If hardly consider a vehicle with over 500 miles on it new anymore. 2130 miles is what you see some lease trade-ins being offered at. That qualifies as used in my book.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Would anyone in the market for a new car actually care about the legal definition of new allowing for something like this?
As somebody whose vehicles are both at or past the 200,000 mile mark, 2,000 miles doesn't really seem significant. Warranty eligibility will take the mileage at time of sale into account, so it's not eating into your warranty. If it was the vehicle I wanted with the options I wanted I wouldn't really blink at it, I'd just negotiate a small discount based on the additional miles and roll with it.
Now, if they're a stickler on price and insist and pricing it the same as a 0 mile example, for sure laugh in their face and walk away. Federal mileage reimbursement rate is $0.58/mi, so figure around $1,200 off as a fair discount.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Unless you're buying a bespoke exotic priced high into the 6 figures, nobody is carefully handling cars with white gloves before you buy them. They all get ragged on. 2,000 miles of a manager driving it home every night hardly means anything, provided they're willing to give you a discount for the extra miles.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Yea I mean that last part is the thing. That amount can very a lot for what it means to different people when they are buying a supposedly new car that has already been treated as a daily driver for someone else. Which is usually the exact reason that particular person may be avoiding buy a used car at all.
Also yes we know the cars get driven and tested and transported. But this is a case of after all of that someone has basically claimed it as their daily driver up until you bought it. Which is certainly a bit different at least to me. Every extra mile driven is more chances that the car was ragged on hard even more. Like if you agree that those first 100 miles on the odometer probably had some hard driving then 2000 miles is 20x the miles with potentially that much more rough driving.
Plus 2000 miles is a lot of miles to some people. I drive about 10,000miles per year. So that's multiple months worth of the cars life. It's that many more miles of wear on the tires(which means a whole lot when you buy a sporty car where the stock tires wear out between 10k and 20k miles and cost $2000 to replace) and that much closer to the first service. The situation is always different but in plenty of situations that 2000 miles means a whole lot.
I don't like the Civic Type R (not the car's fault), and I've driven a Golf for the last ten years which I think is an absolutely fantastic automobile.
Out of the two cars you mentioned, you should get the Honda.