I don’t understand the point of Vex Crow if you can’t cast Savage Roar.
Living Mana was pretty good even without being able to cast Savage Roar the next turn.
Right, it was Mark of the Lotus instead. Not as strong as SR but same idea. Mage has never really been a class that can capitalize on a wide board.
Unless you count old giants mage, which isn't really the same thing.
There were plenty of games Living Mana ended without Mark of the Lotus. It's still a five mana 10/10.
And think of it this way: Sure, you don't have Roar, but Fireball + Frostbolt is pretty good at doing what Roar does. Building a big board is just another way to get in the chip damage you need before you can finish them off with burn.
(or six mana 12/12, seven mana 14/14)
Living Mana has always been an incredibly good spell just by itself. You're putting a ridiculous amount of power on board at the cost of fucking nothing. No downside. You don't give a shit about not having mana the next turn when you've got 10/12/14 power on board.
Playing Psychic Scream against a Living Mana board was pretty game ending though.
I went back and looked up my Dungeon Run attempts to finish so I could compare them to Monster Hunter. All of these are single completion.
I got pretty lucky since I believe most people found Priest and Warrior the most challenging. Still significantly more effort than the Monster Hunt ones were.
I don’t understand the point of Vex Crow if you can’t cast Savage Roar.
Living Mana was pretty good even without being able to cast Savage Roar the next turn.
Right, it was Mark of the Lotus instead. Not as strong as SR but same idea. Mage has never really been a class that can capitalize on a wide board.
Unless you count old giants mage, which isn't really the same thing.
There were plenty of games Living Mana ended without Mark of the Lotus. It's still a five mana 10/10.
And think of it this way: Sure, you don't have Roar, but Fireball + Frostbolt is pretty good at doing what Roar does. Building a big board is just another way to get in the chip damage you need before you can finish them off with burn.
(or six mana 12/12, seven mana 14/14)
Living Mana has always been an incredibly good spell just by itself. You're putting a ridiculous amount of power on board at the cost of fucking nothing. No downside. You don't give a shit about not having mana the next turn when you've got 10/12/14 power on board.
Playing Psychic Scream against a Living Mana board was pretty game ending though.
Also beat Monster Run with Houndmaster Shaw on my third attempt.
Got the Deathrattles trigger on play Passive ability and took all the Deathrattle minions I could. Ended up milling the fuck out the final boss when she dropped x2 Cult Masters into back-to-back copies of the 8 mana tree that spawns more minions. Yeah...that was easy.
MNC Dover on
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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0
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edited April 2018
Someone just played a weird Paladin deck against me. No Baku/Genn. He ran Loot Hoarder, Plated Beetle, Mana Wraith and Pintsize Summoner as 2 drops for CtA. Didn't see any 1drops. He had Tarim and Tirion and also Primo Drake and double Sea Giant. So basically a midrange pally without dude synergy?
Mana Wraith from CtA was actually kinda good for him, because he could folllow it up with a second CtA a turn later.
Someone just played a weird Paladin deck against me. No Baku/Genn. He ran Loot Hoarder, Plated Beetle, Mana Wraith and Pintsize Summoner as 2 drops for CtA. Didn't see any 1drops. He had Tarim and Tirion and also Primo Drake and double Sea Giant. So basically a midrange pally without dude synergy?
Mana Wraith from CtA was actually kinda good for him, because he could folllow it up with a second CtA a turn later.
I came up against something similar; he also had the Paladin lich hero. Unfortunately for him my deck had a bunch of board wipes so I believe my deck was just a hard counter but it was interesting to see something different.
In my Tracker Monster Run, Crag brought me down to 1 HP. The game was not going well. He had Yogg and 3 giants out, and was pulling more out every turn, while I had an empty board.
Professor Putricide + Secrets + 10 damage Kingsbane + Doomerang = saved me for a turn
Professor Putricide + Professor Putricide + Secrets + 10 damage Kingsbane + Doomerang = I turned the whole game around and killed him.
Can anyone explain to me how they realized Innervate, which provides 2 mana for zero cost is a problem, but Preparation, which provides THREE mana for zero cost is fine? Seriously, anybody?
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Limited to reducing the cost of a single SPELL so it is far more heavily curated by what spells they give rogue and why they won't ever get strong ones
Limited to reducing the cost of a single SPELL so it is far more heavily curated by what spells they give rogue and why they won't ever get strong ones
ie blade fury costs fucking 4 mana
Yeah, you're right, it's not like anybody in history ever cast both a spell and a minion in the same turn. Silly me. As long as it's only the SPELL mana that turn, it doesn't matter if they have 3 extra mana to spend on minions, because it was just SPELL mana.
EDIT: Blade Fury cost 4 mana because it used to go face, not because of Prep.
morgan_coke on
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
You guys think they'll return Innervate to its former form when Ultimate Infestation rotates out? I think it's possible.
Edit: I guess they might not want to set the precedent that they're willing to roll shit back like that, but they did it with Molten Giant, so maybe.
Edit2: I'm still walking on air since hitting Legend this month. I had begun to think that I might never have time to get there. God bless the monthly reset changes. It honestly was pretty painless. Don't think that I'll try again for a while, but who knows. If I have success in a new month and make it to Rank 3 or so, maybe I'd try for another late-night push.
They really fucking need to at this point. It's fucking choking the class's design space.
And like actually though, not meme-ish like the BF nerf.
It's why a card like Thistle Tea ends up costing 6 instead of, yknow, 5, even when all other "put three cards in your hand" spells are 5 elsewhere (Devour Mind, Cabalist's Tome). Because Prepping Thistle Tea, that's 3 and that's ~*a-ok*~, but if it were 2?! my goodness no never inconceivable
meanwhile it's just unplayable at 6 period. not even worth using with prep.
also vanish, costing 6.
or sprint costing 7, although i guess that's somewhat in line with the other card draw spells (3 mana = draw 2, 5 mana = draw 3, 7 mana = draw 4... 10 mana = draw 5/heal 5/damage 5/summon a 5/5 :rotate:)
They really fucking need to at this point. It's fucking choking the class's design space.
And like actually though, not meme-ish like the BF nerf.
It's why a card like Thistle Tea ends up costing 6 instead of, yknow, 5, even when all other "put three cards in your hand" spells are 5 elsewhere (Devour Mind, Cabalist's Tome). Because Prepping Thistle Tea, that's 3 and that's ~*a-ok*~, but if it were 2?! my goodness no never inconceivable
meanwhile it's just unplayable at 6 period. not even worth using with prep.
also vanish, costing 6.
or sprint costing 7, although i guess that's somewhat in line with the other card draw spells (3 mana = draw 2, 5 mana = draw 3, 7 mana = draw 4... 10 mana = draw 5/heal 5/damage 5/summon a 5/5 :rotate:)
I honestly don't know why it didn't go away when they printed the "fixed" version - Counterfeit Coin.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
The mana cheat value of prep in the age of spiteful decks seems like a pretty specific instance to be upset about. Rogue has always been a class where if they draw the right card every time it looks strong, one card out of order they just.
Or you just slam spiteful on 6 and the resources required to clear puts you ahead regardless
The mana cheat value of prep in the age of spiteful decks seems like a pretty specific instance to be upset about. Rogue has always been a class where if they draw the right card every time it looks strong, one card out of order they just.
Or you just slam spiteful on 6 and the resources required to clear puts you ahead regardless
Rogue doesn't have a spiteful package, because they lack 10 mana spells. So it's kind of an irrelevant point.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
The mana cheat value of prep in the age of spiteful decks seems like a pretty specific instance to be upset about. Rogue has always been a class where if they draw the right card every time it looks strong, one card out of order they just.
Or you just slam spiteful on 6 and the resources required to clear puts you ahead regardless
Rogue doesn't have a spiteful package, because they lack 10 mana spells. So it's kind of an irrelevant point.
This sounds like a challenge to me
Edit: I spent literally four seconds thinking about running this deck and it makes me want to kill myself, so maybe not
Prep is not a problem for the game's balance, but I agree with Dibby in that it is a problem for rogue class design.
You only think this because there hasn't been a "Ultimate Infestation" type spell or deck for Rogue yet. Black Lotus always has been, and always will be completely broken.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Well, got to my highest ever rank 7 today with my casual-ish, mostly off-meta deck play style. The extra ~300 dust for rank 5 would be nice, but I'm not one to grind out ranks in Hearthstone (see first sentence).
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
+4
JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
Oh I thought I was doing great in this Toki run and then I faced Experiment 3c and that guy is stupid powerful.
Not helped by the fact I had +2 health elementals and he wiped the board 3 times to summon his amalgation or whatever. I can't exactly deal with three 20/20+ with all my minions gone.
Oh I thought I was doing great in this Toki run and then I faced Experiment 3c and that guy is stupid powerful.
Not helped by the fact I had +2 health elementals and he wiped the board 3 times to summon his amalgation or whatever. I can't exactly deal with three 20/20+ with all my minions gone.
Watching the AI waste amalgations on shitty 2 minion boards on streams pisses me off so much.
You guys think they'll return Innervate to its former form when Ultimate Infestation rotates out? I think it's possible.
Edit: I guess they might not want to set the precedent that they're willing to roll shit back like that, but they did it with Molten Giant, so maybe.
Edit2: I'm still walking on air since hitting Legend this month. I had begun to think that I might never have time to get there. God bless the monthly reset changes. It honestly was pretty painless. Don't think that I'll try again for a while, but who knows. If I have success in a new month and make it to Rank 3 or so, maybe I'd try for another late-night push.
Also, nahhh. I don't think they'll do this, even when UI rotates.
It was a problematic card just in general. I'm sure many people remember the days of Innervating out a Yeti on T2 (which, back then, was utterly backbreaking). Worse yet was the infamous double-Innervating a huge fatty WAY before it was supposed to come down. 8 drops on T4 are fair, yeah? :rotate:
(yes yes i know spiteful/skull/lackey all exist too, those are also just as bad)
I'd rather just see them continue to print varied/different mana ramp cards, slowly over time. Stuff that's like, yknow, not quite as cheaty, but still plays into the class identity of mana ramping for Druid. I actually really like Greedy Sprite in this sense because it's a shitty body, which is a good thing, but moreover: It's not direct ramp. You might not even get that mana crystal the next turn. Which, again, is a good thing for game health.
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
+4
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I never hated quest rogue but now that it can fucking heal it feels sort of fucked up
5/5 w/ rush and lifesteal for 1 fucking mana is a bit... a bit much. there's no weakness now. no card draw weakness, no beat down weakness. the fuck do you do?
I never hated quest rogue but now that it can fucking heal it feels sort of fucked up
5/5 w/ rush and lifesteal for 1 fucking mana is a bit... a bit much. there's no weakness now. no card draw weakness, no beat down weakness. the fuck do you do?
You guys think they'll return Innervate to its former form when Ultimate Infestation rotates out? I think it's possible.
Edit: I guess they might not want to set the precedent that they're willing to roll shit back like that, but they did it with Molten Giant, so maybe.
Edit2: I'm still walking on air since hitting Legend this month. I had begun to think that I might never have time to get there. God bless the monthly reset changes. It honestly was pretty painless. Don't think that I'll try again for a while, but who knows. If I have success in a new month and make it to Rank 3 or so, maybe I'd try for another late-night push.
Also, nahhh. I don't think they'll do this, even when UI rotates.
It was a problematic card just in general. I'm sure many people remember the days of Innervating out a Yeti on T2 (which, back then, was utterly backbreaking). Worse yet was the infamous double-Innervating a huge fatty WAY before it was supposed to come down. 8 drops on T4 are fair, yeah? :rotate:
(yes yes i know spiteful/skull/lackey all exist too, those are also just as bad)
I'd rather just see them continue to print varied/different mana ramp cards, slowly over time. Stuff that's like, yknow, not quite as cheaty, but still plays into the class identity of mana ramping for Druid. I actually really like Greedy Sprite in this sense because it's a shitty body, which is a good thing, but moreover: It's not direct ramp. You might not even get that mana crystal the next turn. Which, again, is a good thing for game health.
Ignoring the brokenness of Jade Druid for a second, Jade Blossom was also a cool ramp card. Summoning a weak minion with some ramp is a way to ramp that also feels fair to your opponent. The point of ramp should be an early sacrifice to gain a later advantage.
+1
JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
Oh I thought I was doing great in this Toki run and then I faced Experiment 3c and that guy is stupid powerful.
Not helped by the fact I had +2 health elementals and he wiped the board 3 times to summon his amalgation or whatever. I can't exactly deal with three 20/20+ with all my minions gone.
Watching the AI waste amalgations on shitty 2 minion boards on streams pisses me off so much.
Like why cant they do that against me?
Yeah to be fair this was the first time I had run into it (I thought it couldn't possibly have more than 1 or 2 copies of that card), and I had completely the worst deck for it. But it feels only beatable if the AI makes some terrible misplays.
I never hated quest rogue but now that it can fucking heal it feels sort of fucked up
5/5 w/ rush and lifesteal for 1 fucking mana is a bit... a bit much. there's no weakness now. no card draw weakness, no beat down weakness. the fuck do you do?
pick an aggro deck
I even lose to quest rogue with aggro decks most of the time. I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing about playing against it? I usually just try to go face but it works maybe 40% of the time.
The one I played the other day played vanish 3 times. Is there anything you can do against that or is that just lucky draw for the quest rogue?
I never hated quest rogue but now that it can fucking heal it feels sort of fucked up
5/5 w/ rush and lifesteal for 1 fucking mana is a bit... a bit much. there's no weakness now. no card draw weakness, no beat down weakness. the fuck do you do?
There was a reynard? video posted a couple pages back that specifically called this out and the upsetting design decisions that have allowed for it. There is nothing you can slot into a deck to counter it, your options are play an aggro deck.
I never hated quest rogue but now that it can fucking heal it feels sort of fucked up
5/5 w/ rush and lifesteal for 1 fucking mana is a bit... a bit much. there's no weakness now. no card draw weakness, no beat down weakness. the fuck do you do?
There was a reynard? video posted a couple pages back that specifically called this out and the upsetting design decisions that have allowed for it. There is nothing you can slot into a deck to counter it, your options are play an aggro deck.
I pretty much only lose to Prep turns in that matchup with Cubelock. Just keep their board clear all the time, so they have to do damage from hand, and keep taunts up to stop it.
Of course, prep-cavern, prep-vanish followed by 25+ charge damage isn't really defendable against.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
I never hated quest rogue but now that it can fucking heal it feels sort of fucked up
5/5 w/ rush and lifesteal for 1 fucking mana is a bit... a bit much. there's no weakness now. no card draw weakness, no beat down weakness. the fuck do you do?
pick an aggro deck
I even lose to quest rogue with aggro decks most of the time. I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing about playing against it? I usually just try to go face but it works maybe 40% of the time.
The one I played the other day played vanish 3 times. Is there anything you can do against that or is that just lucky draw for the quest rogue?
if you really, really, really gotta beat quest rogue... tempo mage
otherwise, though, murloc paladin is nearly as lopsided and can win vs. paladin in exchange for losing to cubelock/control lock.
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I never hated quest rogue but now that it can fucking heal it feels sort of fucked up
5/5 w/ rush and lifesteal for 1 fucking mana is a bit... a bit much. there's no weakness now. no card draw weakness, no beat down weakness. the fuck do you do?
There was a reynard? video posted a couple pages back that specifically called this out and the upsetting design decisions that have allowed for it. There is nothing you can slot into a deck to counter it, your options are play an aggro deck.
Posts
Playing Psychic Scream against a Living Mana board was pretty game ending though.
I went back and looked up my Dungeon Run attempts to finish so I could compare them to Monster Hunter. All of these are single completion.
Priest - 8
Hunter - 12
Warrior - 15
Druid - 16
Shaman - 30
Rogue - 40
Paladin - 41
Mage - 43
Warlock - 71
I got pretty lucky since I believe most people found Priest and Warrior the most challenging. Still significantly more effort than the Monster Hunt ones were.
I mean yeah, or Vanish or Devolve.
It'd happen. But not always.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
mostly though I think I just got lucky and missed most of the bosses that gave me big problems before
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Class: FoN (x1), Bestial Wrath (x2), King Krush, Mindgames (x1), Gorehowl (x1)
Neutral: Cho, Millhouse, Pagle, Hogger, Illidan, The Beast, Noz, Onyxia
Huh. All pretty bad cards (except Krush) that I really will never need.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Mana Wraith from CtA was actually kinda good for him, because he could folllow it up with a second CtA a turn later.
I came up against something similar; he also had the Paladin lich hero. Unfortunately for him my deck had a bunch of board wipes so I believe my deck was just a hard counter but it was interesting to see something different.
Professor Putricide + Secrets + 10 damage Kingsbane + Doomerang = saved me for a turn
Professor Putricide + Professor Putricide + Secrets + 10 damage Kingsbane + Doomerang = I turned the whole game around and killed him.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
ie blade fury costs fucking 4 mana
Yeah, you're right, it's not like anybody in history ever cast both a spell and a minion in the same turn. Silly me. As long as it's only the SPELL mana that turn, it doesn't matter if they have 3 extra mana to spend on minions, because it was just SPELL mana.
EDIT: Blade Fury cost 4 mana because it used to go face, not because of Prep.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
Edit: I guess they might not want to set the precedent that they're willing to roll shit back like that, but they did it with Molten Giant, so maybe.
Edit2: I'm still walking on air since hitting Legend this month. I had begun to think that I might never have time to get there. God bless the monthly reset changes. It honestly was pretty painless. Don't think that I'll try again for a while, but who knows. If I have success in a new month and make it to Rank 3 or so, maybe I'd try for another late-night push.
They really fucking need to at this point. It's fucking choking the class's design space.
And like actually though, not meme-ish like the BF nerf.
It's why a card like Thistle Tea ends up costing 6 instead of, yknow, 5, even when all other "put three cards in your hand" spells are 5 elsewhere (Devour Mind, Cabalist's Tome). Because Prepping Thistle Tea, that's 3 and that's ~*a-ok*~, but if it were 2?! my goodness no never inconceivable
meanwhile it's just unplayable at 6 period. not even worth using with prep.
also vanish, costing 6.
or sprint costing 7, although i guess that's somewhat in line with the other card draw spells (3 mana = draw 2, 5 mana = draw 3, 7 mana = draw 4... 10 mana = draw 5/heal 5/damage 5/summon a 5/5 :rotate:)
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I honestly don't know why it didn't go away when they printed the "fixed" version - Counterfeit Coin.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
Or you just slam spiteful on 6 and the resources required to clear puts you ahead regardless
It went face and cost 2 mana initially. When they nerfed it they not only stopped it from going face, but also made it cost 4 mana.
A typical Blizzard sledgehammer nerf to make it irrelevant for forever and always (for the most part)
Rogue doesn't have a spiteful package, because they lack 10 mana spells. So it's kind of an irrelevant point.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
This sounds like a challenge to me
Edit: I spent literally four seconds thinking about running this deck and it makes me want to kill myself, so maybe not
You only think this because there hasn't been a "Ultimate Infestation" type spell or deck for Rogue yet. Black Lotus always has been, and always will be completely broken.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
Not helped by the fact I had +2 health elementals and he wiped the board 3 times to summon his amalgation or whatever. I can't exactly deal with three 20/20+ with all my minions gone.
her final boss is really cool
Watching the AI waste amalgations on shitty 2 minion boards on streams pisses me off so much.
Like why cant they do that against me?
Also, nahhh. I don't think they'll do this, even when UI rotates.
It was a problematic card just in general. I'm sure many people remember the days of Innervating out a Yeti on T2 (which, back then, was utterly backbreaking). Worse yet was the infamous double-Innervating a huge fatty WAY before it was supposed to come down. 8 drops on T4 are fair, yeah? :rotate:
(yes yes i know spiteful/skull/lackey all exist too, those are also just as bad)
I'd rather just see them continue to print varied/different mana ramp cards, slowly over time. Stuff that's like, yknow, not quite as cheaty, but still plays into the class identity of mana ramping for Druid. I actually really like Greedy Sprite in this sense because it's a shitty body, which is a good thing, but moreover: It's not direct ramp. You might not even get that mana crystal the next turn. Which, again, is a good thing for game health.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
5/5 w/ rush and lifesteal for 1 fucking mana is a bit... a bit much. there's no weakness now. no card draw weakness, no beat down weakness. the fuck do you do?
pick an aggro deck
Freeze mage
Lacky counterspell (wild joke option)
Ignoring the brokenness of Jade Druid for a second, Jade Blossom was also a cool ramp card. Summoning a weak minion with some ramp is a way to ramp that also feels fair to your opponent. The point of ramp should be an early sacrifice to gain a later advantage.
Yeah to be fair this was the first time I had run into it (I thought it couldn't possibly have more than 1 or 2 copies of that card), and I had completely the worst deck for it. But it feels only beatable if the AI makes some terrible misplays.
I even lose to quest rogue with aggro decks most of the time. I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing about playing against it? I usually just try to go face but it works maybe 40% of the time.
The one I played the other day played vanish 3 times. Is there anything you can do against that or is that just lucky draw for the quest rogue?
There was a reynard? video posted a couple pages back that specifically called this out and the upsetting design decisions that have allowed for it. There is nothing you can slot into a deck to counter it, your options are play an aggro deck.
I pretty much only lose to Prep turns in that matchup with Cubelock. Just keep their board clear all the time, so they have to do damage from hand, and keep taunts up to stop it.
Of course, prep-cavern, prep-vanish followed by 25+ charge damage isn't really defendable against.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
if you really, really, really gotta beat quest rogue... tempo mage
otherwise, though, murloc paladin is nearly as lopsided and can win vs. paladin in exchange for losing to cubelock/control lock.
That was a Kibler video, actually.
Right? I'd never want to be compared to Kibler.