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[Canadian Politics] No, we're never going to stop talking about pot legalization.
Well neither are new, but to the average person both probably are
If only we had a corporation of sorts dedicated to broadcasting this sort of important information to the Canadian public...
Are we really going to call shit on CBC for not reporting on a small group of sad Reddit/8chan misogynists that until the other day nobody had ever heard of? Whats next an exposé on the dangers of the 4 day Time Cube, or how you really cant do anything at Zombo.com?
Still have to try to convince certain coworkers that, no, it wasn’t a Muslim terrorism attack, and what the incel movement was.
Everybody knows garden variety misogyny, every knows about violence towards women by their partners, but few people realize there are groups of of men so angry about not getting laid, they will kill people. It’s still quite a internet phenomenon. Hate the CBC as much as you want, but mainstream media hasn’t really noticed uncles as a distinct phenomenon.
Probably the only good thing to come out of this is the spotlight that has been focussed on them.
Given that one of Canada's deadliest domestic terrorism attacks was over exactly this mentality and happened over two decades ago, the lack of awareness is troubling.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
Speaking on the condition of anonymity with National Observer, they say a high-ranking public servant instructed them, at least one month before the pipeline was approved, “to give cabinet a legally-sound basis to say ‘yes’” to Trans Mountain. These instructions came at a time when the government claimed it was still consulting in good faith with First Nations and had not yet come to a final decision on the pipeline.
And there are literal pilots who will come forward and make claims that they were part of the chemtrails plots to dose society...
I'm sorry but ... WUT?!
You didn't even slightly try to read the article in the link did you? You know how I can tell? Your "its all just some crazy conspiracy" nonsense has zero to do with what I read, which backs up its journalism with confirmed Freedom of Information requests.
Seriously, just what did you hope to accomplish with such a baseless dismissal?
Still have to try to convince certain coworkers that, no, it wasn’t a Muslim terrorism attack, and what the incel movement was.
Everybody knows garden variety misogyny, every knows about violence towards women by their partners, but few people realize there are groups of of men so angry about not getting laid, they will kill people. It’s still quite a internet phenomenon. Hate the CBC as much as you want, but mainstream media hasn’t really noticed uncles as a distinct phenomenon.
Probably the only good thing to come out of this is the spotlight that has been focussed on them.
Given that one of Canada's deadliest domestic terrorism attacks was over exactly this mentality and happened over two decades ago, the lack of awareness is troubling.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
The fact that nobody was focused on it is the whole problem. Yes, it's good that gun control was passed in response, but what always gets ignored is that Lepine was an actual domestic terrorist. He didn't kill all those women randomly - his killings were motivated by specific misogynistic beliefs, which he was happy to articulate. And as feminist activists have pointed out, that aspect of the attack has gotten downplayed and not received the attention it deserved. And the result is that decades later, the same well of hate causes another attack, and people wonder "how could we have seen this happen?", and I just face-palm as I look at history.
Still have to try to convince certain coworkers that, no, it wasn’t a Muslim terrorism attack, and what the incel movement was.
Everybody knows garden variety misogyny, every knows about violence towards women by their partners, but few people realize there are groups of of men so angry about not getting laid, they will kill people. It’s still quite a internet phenomenon. Hate the CBC as much as you want, but mainstream media hasn’t really noticed uncles as a distinct phenomenon.
Probably the only good thing to come out of this is the spotlight that has been focussed on them.
Given that one of Canada's deadliest domestic terrorism attacks was over exactly this mentality and happened over two decades ago, the lack of awareness is troubling.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
There is a vigil every year on the date of the massacre to remember the 14 slain women, these happen all across Canada. But I think Angel was trying to make a point that this type of violent misogyny has always been around and that more attention should have been given to the subject over the years. Instead this little subculture of shitbirds has festered in its echo chamber over the last few years.
That said I go back to my original statement, mainstream media isn't going to do stories about creepy subcultures until they do something and I am not going to fault them for not keeping abreast of the newest flavor of stupid out of reddit. Maybe they should. I don't know.
Still have to try to convince certain coworkers that, no, it wasn’t a Muslim terrorism attack, and what the incel movement was.
Everybody knows garden variety misogyny, every knows about violence towards women by their partners, but few people realize there are groups of of men so angry about not getting laid, they will kill people. It’s still quite a internet phenomenon. Hate the CBC as much as you want, but mainstream media hasn’t really noticed uncles as a distinct phenomenon.
Probably the only good thing to come out of this is the spotlight that has been focussed on them.
Given that one of Canada's deadliest domestic terrorism attacks was over exactly this mentality and happened over two decades ago, the lack of awareness is troubling.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
There is a vigil every year on the date of the massacre to remember the 14 slain women, these happen all across Canada. But I think Angel was trying to make a point that this type of violent misogyny has always been around and that more attention should have been given to the subject over the years. Instead this little subculture of shitbirds has festered in its echo chamber over the last few years.
That said I go back to my original statement, mainstream media isn't going to do stories about creepy subcultures until they do something and I am not going to fault them for not keeping abreast of the newest flavor of stupid out of reddit. Maybe they should. I don't know.
The thing is that it's not a new flavor - just an old one in new packaging. Which is the problem - as a society, we're overly comfortable with misogyny.
Still have to try to convince certain coworkers that, no, it wasn’t a Muslim terrorism attack, and what the incel movement was.
Everybody knows garden variety misogyny, every knows about violence towards women by their partners, but few people realize there are groups of of men so angry about not getting laid, they will kill people. It’s still quite a internet phenomenon. Hate the CBC as much as you want, but mainstream media hasn’t really noticed uncles as a distinct phenomenon.
Probably the only good thing to come out of this is the spotlight that has been focussed on them.
Given that one of Canada's deadliest domestic terrorism attacks was over exactly this mentality and happened over two decades ago, the lack of awareness is troubling.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
The fact that nobody was focused on it is the whole problem. Yes, it's good that gun control was passed in response, but what always gets ignored is that Lepine was an actual domestic terrorist. He didn't kill all those women randomly - his killings were motivated by specific misogynistic beliefs, which he was happy to articulate. And as feminist activists have pointed out, that aspect of the attack has gotten downplayed and not received the attention it deserved. And the result is that decades later, the same well of hate causes another attack, and people wonder "how could we have seen this happen?", and I just face-palm as I look at history.
Could you maybe not do this thing where you condescend to other people about their history? Most Canadians absolutely have not forgotten the misogynist element of the attack you keep referencing.
Well neither are new, but to the average person both probably are
If only we had a corporation of sorts dedicated to broadcasting this sort of important information to the Canadian public...
Are we really going to call shit on CBC for not reporting on a small group of sad Reddit/8chan misogynists that until the other day nobody had ever heard of? Whats next an exposé on the dangers of the 4 day Time Cube, or how you really cant do anything at Zombo.com?
Still have to try to convince certain coworkers that, no, it wasn’t a Muslim terrorism attack, and what the incel movement was.
Everybody knows garden variety misogyny, every knows about violence towards women by their partners, but few people realize there are groups of of men so angry about not getting laid, they will kill people. It’s still quite a internet phenomenon. Hate the CBC as much as you want, but mainstream media hasn’t really noticed uncles as a distinct phenomenon.
Probably the only good thing to come out of this is the spotlight that has been focussed on them.
Given that one of Canada's deadliest domestic terrorism attacks was over exactly this mentality and happened over two decades ago, the lack of awareness is troubling.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
The fact that nobody was focused on it is the whole problem. Yes, it's good that gun control was passed in response, but what always gets ignored is that Lepine was an actual domestic terrorist. He didn't kill all those women randomly - his killings were motivated by specific misogynistic beliefs, which he was happy to articulate. And as feminist activists have pointed out, that aspect of the attack has gotten downplayed and not received the attention it deserved. And the result is that decades later, the same well of hate causes another attack, and people wonder "how could we have seen this happen?", and I just face-palm as I look at history.
Could you maybe not do this thing where you condescend to other people about their history? Most Canadians absolutely have not forgotten the misogynist element of the attack you keep referencing.
Ask anyone and the first thing they remember about Lepine is that he hated women.
My kid had him brought up in social class and that was the main topic.
Misogynistic views do get attention and ridicule but we have not been able to eradicate it as a society. Just like everywhere else for all of the history of the human race.
If only we paid more attention to École Polytechnique we could have prevented incel corrupting this guy sure is a hot fucking take.
Still have to try to convince certain coworkers that, no, it wasn’t a Muslim terrorism attack, and what the incel movement was.
Everybody knows garden variety misogyny, every knows about violence towards women by their partners, but few people realize there are groups of of men so angry about not getting laid, they will kill people. It’s still quite a internet phenomenon. Hate the CBC as much as you want, but mainstream media hasn’t really noticed uncles as a distinct phenomenon.
Probably the only good thing to come out of this is the spotlight that has been focussed on them.
Given that one of Canada's deadliest domestic terrorism attacks was over exactly this mentality and happened over two decades ago, the lack of awareness is troubling.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
There is a vigil every year on the date of the massacre to remember the 14 slain women, these happen all across Canada. But I think Angel was trying to make a point that this type of violent misogyny has always been around and that more attention should have been given to the subject over the years. Instead this little subculture of shitbirds has festered in its echo chamber over the last few years.
That said I go back to my original statement, mainstream media isn't going to do stories about creepy subcultures until they do something and I am not going to fault them for not keeping abreast of the newest flavor of stupid out of reddit. Maybe they should. I don't know.
The thing is that it's not a new flavor - just an old one in new packaging. Which is the problem - as a society, we're overly comfortable with misogyny.
Yes, if you want to nitpick Incel really isn't anything new but it is a relatively new community. The weird subcultures that form out of like minded individuals who then reinforce each others terrible ideas is a fairly recent thing (Though I suppose BBS and newsgroups have been around for awhile but we are in a very different time now where almost everyone has internet access and the desire to use it) To then shit on CBC (which this whole comment originally was pointed at) because they didn't know Incel was a thing seemed overly critical since most folks outside of specific areas of the internet had never heard of it either.
Well neither are new, but to the average person both probably are
If only we had a corporation of sorts dedicated to broadcasting this sort of important information to the Canadian public...
Are we really going to call shit on CBC for not reporting on a small group of sad Reddit/8chan misogynists that until the other day nobody had ever heard of? Whats next an exposé on the dangers of the 4 day Time Cube, or how you really cant do anything at Zombo.com?
well from the look of it, everyone published the wrong guys name, even the PD had spelt it wrong.
as for the facebook thing, I am seeing the contrary the one that referenced the Incel rebellion is real but there is now a ton of fake Alek Minassian profiles out there.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity with National Observer, they say a high-ranking public servant instructed them, at least one month before the pipeline was approved, “to give cabinet a legally-sound basis to say ‘yes’” to Trans Mountain. These instructions came at a time when the government claimed it was still consulting in good faith with First Nations and had not yet come to a final decision on the pipeline.
And there are literal pilots who will come forward and make claims that they were part of the chemtrails plots to dose society...
I'm sorry but ... WUT?!
You didn't even slightly try to read the article in the link did you? You know how I can tell? Your "its all just some crazy conspiracy" nonsense has zero to do with what I read, which backs up its journalism with confirmed Freedom of Information requests.
Seriously, just what did you hope to accomplish with such a baseless dismissal?
It's not my job to read every link you post.
If you think the article makes a strong argument, then quote the strong argument.
A quote about an anonymous high level whistle blower in a paper that has a name reminiscent of the National Inquirer is going to get blown off as conspiracy, sorry for reality.
I wonder if that's kind of the same thing as with the Toronto attack. Is it a life situation that leads to a mental break down, radicalization and violence? Or is there a pre-existing mental illness, that's given a focus and validation by an echo chamber such as 'incel'?
Well neither are new, but to the average person both probably are
If only we had a corporation of sorts dedicated to broadcasting this sort of important information to the Canadian public...
What would you have had them do? Scour the internet for weird and creepy subcultures, and write scare pieces about what they may or may not do in the future? I feel like they just can't win with you.
Actually, I would love it if mainstream media spent more time digging into dangerous online subcultures, yes. They're ground zero for alt-right recruitment, the public (and parents especially) should be informed about them.
Yea but if you start into those subcultures you just get articles that are complete nonsense trying to scare people about shit they don't need to ever worry or think about. Let the authorities penetrate the subcultures that are actually a problem, instead of reaching into the tickle trunk and hoping you find something newsworthy.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity with National Observer, they say a high-ranking public servant instructed them, at least one month before the pipeline was approved, “to give cabinet a legally-sound basis to say ‘yes’” to Trans Mountain. These instructions came at a time when the government claimed it was still consulting in good faith with First Nations and had not yet come to a final decision on the pipeline.
And there are literal pilots who will come forward and make claims that they were part of the chemtrails plots to dose society...
I'm sorry but ... WUT?!
You didn't even slightly try to read the article in the link did you? You know how I can tell? Your "its all just some crazy conspiracy" nonsense has zero to do with what I read, which backs up its journalism with confirmed Freedom of Information requests.
Seriously, just what did you hope to accomplish with such a baseless dismissal?
It's not my job to read every link you post.
If you think the article makes a strong argument, then quote the strong argument.
A quote about an anonymous high level whistle blower in a paper that has a name reminiscent of the National Inquirer is going to get blown off as conspiracy, sorry for reality.
Your job is to argue in good faith, and if you don't know what the fuck you are talking about then it's best to shut up instead of show everyone how big of a goose you are.
Fox News has news in it's name, so it must be a trusted source, right?
Yea but if you start into those subcultures you just get articles that are complete nonsense trying to scare people about shit they don't need to ever worry or think about. Let the authorities penetrate the subcultures that are actually a problem, instead of reaching into the tickle trunk and hoping you find something newsworthy.
Given that the incel community had already racked up one mass shooting prior to this attack, they already merited greater scrutiny by the public.
I wonder if that's kind of the same thing as with the Toronto attack. Is it a life situation that leads to a mental break down, radicalization and violence? Or is there a pre-existing mental illness, that's given a focus and validation by an echo chamber such as 'incel'?
Still have to try to convince certain coworkers that, no, it wasn’t a Muslim terrorism attack, and what the incel movement was.
Everybody knows garden variety misogyny, every knows about violence towards women by their partners, but few people realize there are groups of of men so angry about not getting laid, they will kill people. It’s still quite a internet phenomenon. Hate the CBC as much as you want, but mainstream media hasn’t really noticed uncles as a distinct phenomenon.
Probably the only good thing to come out of this is the spotlight that has been focussed on them.
Given that one of Canada's deadliest domestic terrorism attacks was over exactly this mentality and happened over two decades ago, the lack of awareness is troubling.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
The fact that nobody was focused on it is the whole problem. Yes, it's good that gun control was passed in response, but what always gets ignored is that Lepine was an actual domestic terrorist. He didn't kill all those women randomly - his killings were motivated by specific misogynistic beliefs, which he was happy to articulate. And as feminist activists have pointed out, that aspect of the attack has gotten downplayed and not received the attention it deserved. And the result is that decades later, the same well of hate causes another attack, and people wonder "how could we have seen this happen?", and I just face-palm as I look at history.
Could you maybe not do this thing where you condescend to other people about their history? Most Canadians absolutely have not forgotten the misogynist element of the attack you keep referencing.
Judging by the annual "conversation" the public has about it - especially the most recent one, where people started really trying to deflect Lepine's explicitly-stated motivations and background - a lot of them sure are convinced it was some freak one-off lone-wolf thing with negligible wider societal implications because it's In The Past(tm), though. To them it's not evidence of a systemic issue, it's an aberration, a once-and-done which won't be repeated.
That's probably what's going to happen with this one again - the focus is going to be on how The Boy Just Ain't Right and not the fact that he's part of a community of thousands who literally worship a mass shooter (and are already starting to worship this guy as well) because of the purity of his misogyny. I'd like to be surprised about my expectations there, but I don't really expect to be.
(Also, idly, the amount of "I haven't heard of this thing therefore it wasn't really a thing until just now even though people are saying right here that they've been a thing for decades, and for at least five years in its current form" in the last chunk of this thread is really obnoxiously goosey overall. You guys are better than that kind of kneejerk dismissal.)
Speaking on the condition of anonymity with National Observer, they say a high-ranking public servant instructed them, at least one month before the pipeline was approved, “to give cabinet a legally-sound basis to say ‘yes’” to Trans Mountain. These instructions came at a time when the government claimed it was still consulting in good faith with First Nations and had not yet come to a final decision on the pipeline.
And there are literal pilots who will come forward and make claims that they were part of the chemtrails plots to dose society...
I'm sorry but ... WUT?!
You didn't even slightly try to read the article in the link did you? You know how I can tell? Your "its all just some crazy conspiracy" nonsense has zero to do with what I read, which backs up its journalism with confirmed Freedom of Information requests.
Seriously, just what did you hope to accomplish with such a baseless dismissal?
It's not my job to read every link you post.
If you think the article makes a strong argument, then quote the strong argument.
A quote about an anonymous high level whistle blower in a paper that has a name reminiscent of the National Inquirer is going to get blown off as conspiracy, sorry for reality.
Did I say it was your "job"? Is reading this thread a "job" to you? Too lazy to read isn't really a good enough excuse to post what you did.
Especially since it so callously disregarded some very important points brought up by First Nations regarding how they are treated in Canada, not unlike how the consultation process was too short and “paternalistic,” “inadequate” and “unrealistic.” - something you would have known if you had read the article that were warnings in an internal government memo that was also ignored.
Fine, here, since clicking and reading is too much effort, a wall of text coming at ya. Feel free to not read and smear this too, I guess, since a quick TL:DR quick grab of a paragraph from the article is too much.
Edit: Ok, wall of text is out as per Mod's instructions I am editing this, which you clearly didn't read anyways in one of your responses since you are still demanding proof further down this page - which is in the article linked if you would just fucking read it. Instead, I am chopping it way down (something I have never seen anyone smack others down for in our Canadian Politics threads before), again and I'll bold one line to answer the "provide evidence" query.
...
<snip snip>
...
Right before their internal meeting, federal officials met with Tsleil-Waututh representatives and told them that the government still hadn’t made a final decision on the project. But in the second meeting for government staffers only, public servants who were in the room said O’Gorman’s instructions were explicit.
“We have to give cabinet a legally-sound basis for saying yes,” O’Gorman said, according to people at the meeting.
Personal notes taken by one meeting participant, released through access to information legislation, indicate that the public servants discussed the issue of accommodating First Nations at the meeting, but also that the government was not going to change its ongoing process for consultations.
Yea but if you start into those subcultures you just get articles that are complete nonsense trying to scare people about shit they don't need to ever worry or think about. Let the authorities penetrate the subcultures that are actually a problem, instead of reaching into the tickle trunk and hoping you find something newsworthy.
Given that the incel community had already racked up one mass shooting prior to this attack, they already merited greater scrutiny by the public.
Agreed, but to just start trolling the subcultures looking for a story or the next boogyman is going to end up inundating the news feed with nonsense, clickbait and bullshit.
Switch SW-6182-1526-0041
+11
KragaarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
Yea but if you start into those subcultures you just get articles that are complete nonsense trying to scare people about shit they don't need to ever worry or think about. Let the authorities penetrate the subcultures that are actually a problem, instead of reaching into the tickle trunk and hoping you find something newsworthy.
Given that the incel community had already racked up one mass shooting prior to this attack, they already merited greater scrutiny by the public.
Agreed, but to just start trolling the subcultures looking for a story or the next boogyman is going to end up inundating the news feed with nonsense, clickbait and bullshit.
Which is why I'm surprised that it hasn't been in the news already.
Yea but if you start into those subcultures you just get articles that are complete nonsense trying to scare people about shit they don't need to ever worry or think about. Let the authorities penetrate the subcultures that are actually a problem, instead of reaching into the tickle trunk and hoping you find something newsworthy.
Given that the incel community had already racked up one mass shooting prior to this attack, they already merited greater scrutiny by the public.
Agreed, but to just start trolling the subcultures looking for a story or the next boogyman is going to end up inundating the news feed with nonsense, clickbait and bullshit.
Which is why I'm surprised that it hasn't been in the news already.
Incel, the online community/movement, is new. The kind of general misogyny and desperation that underlie and motivate the movement is not.
The École Polytechnique shooting is well known as a thing done by a guy who hated women but that's not the same as Incel, which is a specific flavour of that with a specific community.
The reason a reaction to said shooting didn't solve everything is, well, violence against women is not easy to solve. Especially in a sexist society. Especially when it's not seen as part of some larger movement.
As for it's specific relation to this incident, especially as it relates to public awareness, I'd say the connection is pretty tenuous. People are aware of misogyny but the way these people have linked up and formed online communities dedicated to weird little versions of it is newer and not well-known.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity with National Observer, they say a high-ranking public servant instructed them, at least one month before the pipeline was approved, “to give cabinet a legally-sound basis to say ‘yes’” to Trans Mountain. These instructions came at a time when the government claimed it was still consulting in good faith with First Nations and had not yet come to a final decision on the pipeline.
And there are literal pilots who will come forward and make claims that they were part of the chemtrails plots to dose society...
I'm sorry but ... WUT?!
You didn't even slightly try to read the article in the link did you? You know how I can tell? Your "its all just some crazy conspiracy" nonsense has zero to do with what I read, which backs up its journalism with confirmed Freedom of Information requests.
Seriously, just what did you hope to accomplish with such a baseless dismissal?
It's not my job to read every link you post.
If you think the article makes a strong argument, then quote the strong argument.
A quote about an anonymous high level whistle blower in a paper that has a name reminiscent of the National Inquirer is going to get blown off as conspiracy, sorry for reality.
Your job is to argue in good faith, and if you don't know what the fuck you are talking about then it's best to shut up instead of show everyone how big of a goose you are.
Fox News has news in it's name, so it must be a trusted source, right?
Did you hear a whistling sound as my point sailed by?
When making a claim, reference the strongest argument from your source.
Claiming government conspiracy requires a stronger argument than anonymous source.
And if Wolverine is unable to determine which paragraphs are convincing for his argument and has to either lazily drop a link or copy paste the entire article in contravention of the rules, that's on him.
I absolutely believe the government would want to research and be aware of all their legal options, I think proving nefarious intent requires stronger proof.
@CanadianWolverine Please do not post massive chunks of an article from elsewhere. Post a couple of relevant excerpts and a link. If someone doesn’t want to read everything from the link, that’s not a reason to inline it all. Please trim your quote accordingly.
Your job is to argue in good faith, and if you don't know what the fuck you are talking about then it's best to shut up instead of show everyone how big of a goose you are.
This is also pretty rude and unproductive. Knock it off.
This whole page is full of people snapping and huffing and jabbing imaginary fingers into other people's chests. Quit being childish dicks.
I'd rather that than knowing what the next Kanye tweet or whatever is about.
My parents watch news programs that have the newscasters just show the latest newspaper caricatures of Trudeau.
The "the news has bigger and better things to talk about then misogynistic online subcultures tens of thousands strong recruiting and radicalizing domestic terrorists in Canada" would resonate more if the news actually talked about bigger and better things.
Yea but if you start into those subcultures you just get articles that are complete nonsense trying to scare people about shit they don't need to ever worry or think about. Let the authorities penetrate the subcultures that are actually a problem, instead of reaching into the tickle trunk and hoping you find something newsworthy.
I'd rather that than knowing what the next Kanye tweet or whatever is about.
My parents watch news programs that have the newscasters just show the latest newspaper caricatures of Trudeau.
The "the news has bigger and better things to talk about then misogynistic online subcultures tens of thousands strong recruiting and radicalizing domestic terrorists in Canada" would resonate more if the news actually talked about bigger and better things.
The last time I watched the CBC stream it had them reading tweets by people about some random thing, so my expectations are somewhat low. Having Robin Dolittle investigate it for example would seem very like a very good idea to me. They could have another movie to cast her as a dude in then. Win win!
I wouldn't mind the news reporting on these things if I thought they'd be clear enough that it's bad and people shouldn't do it.
The news has a habit of not calling shit out as horrible and now you've shown this community to 5 million people.
I wouldn't mind the news reporting on these things if I thought they'd be clear enough that it's bad and people shouldn't do it.
The news has a habit of not calling shit out as horrible and now you've shown this community to 5 million people.
How many articles have we seen about poor Trump voters that just want their voice heard? The nice guy white supremacist that lives next door?
If there are going to be reporting it has to be clear that these people are gross.
I wouldn't mind the news reporting on these things if I thought they'd be clear enough that it's bad and people shouldn't do it.
The news has a habit of not calling shit out as horrible and now you've shown this community to 5 million people.
How many articles have we seen about poor Trump voters that just want their voice heard? The nice guy white supremacist that lives next door?
If there are going to be reporting it has to be clear that these people are gross.
None that i can think of. What kind of fucked up news are you reading?
I wouldn't mind the news reporting on these things if I thought they'd be clear enough that it's bad and people shouldn't do it.
The news has a habit of not calling shit out as horrible and now you've shown this community to 5 million people.
How many articles have we seen about poor Trump voters that just want their voice heard? The nice guy white supremacist that lives next door?
If there are going to be reporting it has to be clear that these people are gross.
None that i can think of. What kind of fucked up news are you reading?
All of them. The post-2016-american-election news was wall-to-wall with shit about the poor downtrodden Trump voter who voted Trump because he was the only one who listened to them.
Posts
Again, this movement has been around in various incarnations for some time, and was responsible for one of the worst acts of domestic terrorism in Canadian history. Let's stop pretending that people didn't know they were dangerous.
Why would you think that a single event 30 years ago would be something everybody still is focused on? We passed gun control laws in response to it (which given it remains the deadliest shooting seem to have worked) and then nothing major happened for decades. Might as well say we should be eternally vigilant for drunk arsonists (which is the deadliest massacre in modern history)
At least go with the more recent serial killer if you want to make this argument
That's two minutes from my house!
Dude ran out of fuel apparently
I'm sorry but ... WUT?!
You didn't even slightly try to read the article in the link did you? You know how I can tell? Your "its all just some crazy conspiracy" nonsense has zero to do with what I read, which backs up its journalism with confirmed Freedom of Information requests.
Seriously, just what did you hope to accomplish with such a baseless dismissal?
The fact that nobody was focused on it is the whole problem. Yes, it's good that gun control was passed in response, but what always gets ignored is that Lepine was an actual domestic terrorist. He didn't kill all those women randomly - his killings were motivated by specific misogynistic beliefs, which he was happy to articulate. And as feminist activists have pointed out, that aspect of the attack has gotten downplayed and not received the attention it deserved. And the result is that decades later, the same well of hate causes another attack, and people wonder "how could we have seen this happen?", and I just face-palm as I look at history.
There is a vigil every year on the date of the massacre to remember the 14 slain women, these happen all across Canada. But I think Angel was trying to make a point that this type of violent misogyny has always been around and that more attention should have been given to the subject over the years. Instead this little subculture of shitbirds has festered in its echo chamber over the last few years.
That said I go back to my original statement, mainstream media isn't going to do stories about creepy subcultures until they do something and I am not going to fault them for not keeping abreast of the newest flavor of stupid out of reddit. Maybe they should. I don't know.
The thing is that it's not a new flavor - just an old one in new packaging. Which is the problem - as a society, we're overly comfortable with misogyny.
Could you maybe not do this thing where you condescend to other people about their history? Most Canadians absolutely have not forgotten the misogynist element of the attack you keep referencing.
oh they also published the wrong guy's twitter account
https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/04/alek-minassian-toronto/
Also his Facebook post was likely a hoax.
Ask anyone and the first thing they remember about Lepine is that he hated women.
My kid had him brought up in social class and that was the main topic.
Who are these Canadians you are referring to?
If only we paid more attention to École Polytechnique we could have prevented incel corrupting this guy sure is a hot fucking take.
Yes, if you want to nitpick Incel really isn't anything new but it is a relatively new community. The weird subcultures that form out of like minded individuals who then reinforce each others terrible ideas is a fairly recent thing (Though I suppose BBS and newsgroups have been around for awhile but we are in a very different time now where almost everyone has internet access and the desire to use it) To then shit on CBC (which this whole comment originally was pointed at) because they didn't know Incel was a thing seemed overly critical since most folks outside of specific areas of the internet had never heard of it either.
Politically motivated, radicalised online... were he a Muslim, there would be no hesitation in calling it "Islamic terrorism."
well from the look of it, everyone published the wrong guys name, even the PD had spelt it wrong.
as for the facebook thing, I am seeing the contrary the one that referenced the Incel rebellion is real but there is now a ton of fake Alek Minassian profiles out there.
It's not my job to read every link you post.
If you think the article makes a strong argument, then quote the strong argument.
A quote about an anonymous high level whistle blower in a paper that has a name reminiscent of the National Inquirer is going to get blown off as conspiracy, sorry for reality.
MWO: Adamski
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/04/24/who-is-alek-minassian-the-man-accused-in-the-van-rampage.html
Actually, I would love it if mainstream media spent more time digging into dangerous online subcultures, yes. They're ground zero for alt-right recruitment, the public (and parents especially) should be informed about them.
Your job is to argue in good faith, and if you don't know what the fuck you are talking about then it's best to shut up instead of show everyone how big of a goose you are.
Fox News has news in it's name, so it must be a trusted source, right?
Given that the incel community had already racked up one mass shooting prior to this attack, they already merited greater scrutiny by the public.
Oh good. It was a mental health issue. Now we can just write it off as a one-off event. Yay.
Judging by the annual "conversation" the public has about it - especially the most recent one, where people started really trying to deflect Lepine's explicitly-stated motivations and background - a lot of them sure are convinced it was some freak one-off lone-wolf thing with negligible wider societal implications because it's In The Past(tm), though. To them it's not evidence of a systemic issue, it's an aberration, a once-and-done which won't be repeated.
That's probably what's going to happen with this one again - the focus is going to be on how The Boy Just Ain't Right and not the fact that he's part of a community of thousands who literally worship a mass shooter (and are already starting to worship this guy as well) because of the purity of his misogyny. I'd like to be surprised about my expectations there, but I don't really expect to be.
(Also, idly, the amount of "I haven't heard of this thing therefore it wasn't really a thing until just now even though people are saying right here that they've been a thing for decades, and for at least five years in its current form" in the last chunk of this thread is really obnoxiously goosey overall. You guys are better than that kind of kneejerk dismissal.)
Did I say it was your "job"? Is reading this thread a "job" to you? Too lazy to read isn't really a good enough excuse to post what you did.
Especially since it so callously disregarded some very important points brought up by First Nations regarding how they are treated in Canada, not unlike how the consultation process was too short and “paternalistic,” “inadequate” and “unrealistic.” - something you would have known if you had read the article that were warnings in an internal government memo that was also ignored.
Fine, here, since clicking and reading is too much effort, a wall of text coming at ya. Feel free to not read and smear this too, I guess, since a quick TL:DR quick grab of a paragraph from the article is too much.
Edit: Ok, wall of text is out as per Mod's instructions I am editing this, which you clearly didn't read anyways in one of your responses since you are still demanding proof further down this page - which is in the article linked if you would just fucking read it. Instead, I am chopping it way down (something I have never seen anyone smack others down for in our Canadian Politics threads before), again and I'll bold one line to answer the "provide evidence" query.
Agreed, but to just start trolling the subcultures looking for a story or the next boogyman is going to end up inundating the news feed with nonsense, clickbait and bullshit.
Which is why I'm surprised that it hasn't been in the news already.
Touche
The École Polytechnique shooting is well known as a thing done by a guy who hated women but that's not the same as Incel, which is a specific flavour of that with a specific community.
The reason a reaction to said shooting didn't solve everything is, well, violence against women is not easy to solve. Especially in a sexist society. Especially when it's not seen as part of some larger movement.
As for it's specific relation to this incident, especially as it relates to public awareness, I'd say the connection is pretty tenuous. People are aware of misogyny but the way these people have linked up and formed online communities dedicated to weird little versions of it is newer and not well-known.
Did you hear a whistling sound as my point sailed by?
When making a claim, reference the strongest argument from your source.
Claiming government conspiracy requires a stronger argument than anonymous source.
And if Wolverine is unable to determine which paragraphs are convincing for his argument and has to either lazily drop a link or copy paste the entire article in contravention of the rules, that's on him.
I absolutely believe the government would want to research and be aware of all their legal options, I think proving nefarious intent requires stronger proof.
MWO: Adamski
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Does this seem like productive posting to you? Knock it off.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
This is also pretty rude and unproductive. Knock it off.
This whole page is full of people snapping and huffing and jabbing imaginary fingers into other people's chests. Quit being childish dicks.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
My parents watch news programs that have the newscasters just show the latest newspaper caricatures of Trudeau.
The "the news has bigger and better things to talk about then misogynistic online subcultures tens of thousands strong recruiting and radicalizing domestic terrorists in Canada" would resonate more if the news actually talked about bigger and better things.
Like Rob Ford smoking crack?
The last time I watched the CBC stream it had them reading tweets by people about some random thing, so my expectations are somewhat low. Having Robin Dolittle investigate it for example would seem very like a very good idea to me. They could have another movie to cast her as a dude in then. Win win!
The news has a habit of not calling shit out as horrible and now you've shown this community to 5 million people.
How many articles have we seen about poor Trump voters that just want their voice heard? The nice guy white supremacist that lives next door?
If there are going to be reporting it has to be clear that these people are gross.
None that i can think of. What kind of fucked up news are you reading?
All of them. The post-2016-american-election news was wall-to-wall with shit about the poor downtrodden Trump voter who voted Trump because he was the only one who listened to them.