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[Canadian Politics] No, we're never going to stop talking about pot legalization.
How can Ford continue act indignant when being compared to Trump then? How can he lash out at Wynne for being paranoid and drawing conclusions where there are none, yadda yadda yadda... when his supporters out there are sporting MOGA hats and Ford Nation shirts?
How can Ford continue act indignant when being compared to Trump then? How can he lash out at Wynne for being paranoid and drawing conclusions where there are none, yadda yadda yadda... when his supporters out there are sporting MOGA hats and Ford Nation shirts?
Because being intellectually dishonest is the cornerstone of modern conservatism.
+21
KragaarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
How can Ford continue act indignant when being compared to Trump then? How can he lash out at Wynne for being paranoid and drawing conclusions where there are none, yadda yadda yadda... when his supporters out there are sporting MOGA hats and Ford Nation shirts?
This is a relief, since we were talking about hockey for a second I thought MOGA stood for Make Oilers Great Again.
+4
ApogeeLancks In Every Game EverRegistered Userregular
How can Ford continue act indignant when being compared to Trump then? How can he lash out at Wynne for being paranoid and drawing conclusions where there are none, yadda yadda yadda... when his supporters out there are sporting MOGA hats and Ford Nation shirts?
Nothing says 'professional website' to me like a pop-up window that sales 'Use this space to highlight sales and discounts for your customers!".
Also, I love how they're offering a MOGA hat, shirt and 'fire Notley' shirt. Either they don't know or care where Notley is premier, or their customers don't. Or both.
How can Ford continue act indignant when being compared to Trump then? How can he lash out at Wynne for being paranoid and drawing conclusions where there are none, yadda yadda yadda... when his supporters out there are sporting MOGA hats and Ford Nation shirts?
This is a relief, since we were talking about hockey for a second I thought MOGA stood for Make Oilers Great Again.
I mean that would be even more intellectually dishonest. We all know they'll never be good again.
How can Ford continue act indignant when being compared to Trump then? How can he lash out at Wynne for being paranoid and drawing conclusions where there are none, yadda yadda yadda... when his supporters out there are sporting MOGA hats and Ford Nation shirts?
Nothing says 'professional website' to me like a pop-up window that sales 'Use this space to highlight sales and discounts for your customers!".
Also, I love how they're offering a MOGA hat, shirt and 'fire Notley' shirt. Either they don't know or care where Notley is premier, or their customers don't. Or both.
I see "fire Wynne" t-shirts in that package, not Notley. They're white, with Wynne's photoshop-cropped head surrounded by flames. Is that the same as the Notley t-shirts?
My wife works in government and she has the odd panic attack thinking about Kenny being premier. Like I honestly can't think of a better way to destroy any chance this province has in the long term.
Alberta and Ontario are right now the two wealthiest and most productive provinces in Canada, and net contributors to the equalization payments. Given a mandate of Kenny and Ford, especially both simultaneously, I fear for the economy of our entire nation. They won't just ruin their provinces, they'll have the power to ruin the entire country.
+2
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Alberta and Ontario are right now the two wealthiest and most productive provinces in Canada, and net contributors to the equalization payments. Given a mandate of Kenny and Ford, especially both simultaneously, I fear for the economy of our entire nation. They won't just ruin their provinces, they'll have the power to ruin the entire country.
Fascinating.
EDIT: You love to trash Alberta for it's economic choices and now you're worried that something might change? IF Alberta were to drastically reduce its carbon footprint, and reduce its oil output, as you want, it would no longer be an economic engine for the country. Maybe in a few decades other industries might step up, but right now, if Alberta does what you want, its economy would enter a massive recession. And now you post that?
Alberta and Ontario are right now the two wealthiest and most productive provinces in Canada, and net contributors to the equalization payments. Given a mandate of Kenny and Ford, especially both simultaneously, I fear for the economy of our entire nation. They won't just ruin their provinces, they'll have the power to ruin the entire country.
Fascinating.
EDIT: You love to trash Alberta for it's economic choices and now you're worried that something might change? IF Alberta were to drastically reduce its carbon footprint, and reduce its oil output, as you want, it would no longer be an economic engine for the country. Maybe in a few decades other industries might step up, but right now, if Alberta does what you want, its economy would enter a massive recession. And now you post that?
People trash Alberta for continually doubling down on the oil sector and regressive economics, and now it looks like they're preparing to do that again to an extreme. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
+9
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
How would that ruin Canada's economy? The oilsands will continue to be profitable for a generation. If the conservative are going to be business as usual, why would that worry Richy about the economy?
People hate on the NDP here for not immediately making Alberta go completely off oil and when it looks like they're going to lose for even attempting that suddenly people are worried about the outcome of putting the conservatives back in power. It's more than a little high horse.
How would that ruin Canada's economy? The oilsands will continue to be profitable for a generation. If the conservative are going to be business as usual, why would that worry Richy about the economy?
This. Alberta going "drill,drill,drill" is actually great for the Canadian economy.
Alberta needs to begin transitioning away from oil, because it's an increasingly finite resource, to say nothing of the environmental considerations. The longer Alberta just keeps doubling down on it, the bigger each crash is going to be every time oil prices dip, and the more painful the transition will be. Alberta's "Drill drill drill" mentality may be good for the economy in the short term, but it's not sustainable. With this in mind, whatever people think of the Alberta NDP's performance, the conservatives will be far worse on all fronts, diving right back into the behavior that caused Alberta's recent financial woes in the first place.
To be clear, I want what's best for Alberta. I want the people there to do well. These are my fellow Canadians. It's frustrating and disheartening to see this pattern of such self destructive behavior. It's a tough pill to swallow, but Alberta needs to realize that maybe they won't be as much of an economic powerhouse going forward. Eventually, regardless of anything to do with politics, the reality of finite resources are going to pull that rug out from under you, and I don't want you guys to be caught off guard and fall on your face when that happens.
In the short term it may create an economic boost. However, the long term losses far outweigh the short term gains.
TubularLuggage on
+7
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited May 2018
I don't disagree with any of that.
However, it wasn't very long ago that this thread in its previous incarnation advocated Alberta's oil production to be essentially halted because of the carbon footprint. Richy being a strong proponent of the "Fuck Alberta" sentiment also had plenty to say about how bad Alberta is. The economic fallout from such drastic actions would be catastrophic.
So forgive me if I sarcastically mimed the jerk off motion at his sudden concern with Alberta being able to keep pouring oil money into the equalization program.
However, it wasn't very long ago that this thread in its previous incarnation advocated Alberta's oil production to be essentially halted because of the carbon footprint. Richy being a strong proponent of the "Fuck Alberta" sentiment also had plenty to say about how bad Alberta is. The economic fallout from such drastic actions would be catastrophic.
So forgive me if I sarcastically mimed the jerk off motion at his sudden concern with Alberta being able to keep pouring oil money into the equalization program.
Ever watch breaking bad?
Lot's of Albertan's see the rest of Canada like the wife in that show, Skyler.
Constantly bitching about where the money comes from and how terrible we are for making money this way but no problems spending it ...
How would that ruin Canada's economy? The oilsands will continue to be profitable for a generation. If the conservative are going to be business as usual, why would that worry Richy about the economy?
This. Alberta going "drill,drill,drill" is actually great for the Canadian economy.
No, cuz not getting fucked the next time the Saudis decide to screw around with the global market is also great for the economy.
"Making more money" != "good for the economy." The economy serves us, not the other way around.
It just isn't actually great for the Canadian economy if we are just going to all have to hold our collective noses till the whole thing goes bust again! WTF.
"When the engine ran out of gas, even though you all were saying from the back seat to look at the gas gauge or that we should look into an electric car, sure that was terrible, a real awkward stop at the side of the road when we gave you shit for not being happier about pushing the car, but this time will be different, we swear!"
How would that ruin Canada's economy? The oilsands will continue to be profitable for a generation. If the conservative are going to be business as usual, why would that worry Richy about the economy?
This. Alberta going "drill,drill,drill" is actually great for the Canadian economy.
No, cuz not getting fucked the next time the Saudis decide to screw around with the global market is also great for the economy.
"Making more money" != "good for the economy." The economy serves us, not the other way around.
Making money = good for the economy = more taxes = more social services + healthcare + capital projects + infrastructure = better for everyone.
Or am I missing something?
PSN: Canadian_llama
0
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Well, then someone step up.
There's lots of provinces in this union. Why are Alberta and Ontario the only have provinces? If Alberta stopped being a have province, and instead was like it was 100 years ago or so when Alberta relied on the rest of Canada, is that better?
There's no dichotomy and I'm not trying to make one, but if Alberta is so goddamn awful, where's everyone else? What is everyone else doing? Why isn't BC a net contributor? Or Quebec?
Why is the Canadian economy on fucking Alberta to fix?
Actually I believe Alberta, BC, NFLD, and Saskatchewan are the provinces not receiving equalization payments this year. Ontario is.
It's based on some arcane economic calculation that I don't understand, but isn't necessarily just on provincial wealth. But it's related to GDP, taxes, and then a comparison against the national average GDP and tax rate or something like that.
There's lots of provinces in this union. Why are Alberta and Ontario the only have provinces? If Alberta stopped being a have province, and instead was like it was 100 years ago or so when Alberta relied on the rest of Canada, is that better?
There's no dichotomy and I'm not trying to make one, but if Alberta is so goddamn awful, where's everyone else? What is everyone else doing? Why isn't BC a net contributor? Or Quebec?
Why is the Canadian economy on fucking Alberta to fix?
Ok, but Albertans are still going to be out of jobs.
I mean you could have mobile gangs of job seekers roving the provinces any time an industry dries up, but it's just not ideal, what with the cost of gas and all.
There is also evidence that the major oil boom in the country depresses other sectors such as manufacturing and services which are major industries in places like Ontario and Quebec.
It just isn't actually great for the Canadian economy if we are just going to all have to hold our collective noses till the whole thing goes bust again! WTF.
"When the engine ran out of gas, even though you all were saying from the back seat to look at the gas gauge or that we should look into an electric car, sure that was terrible, a real awkward stop at the side of the road when we gave you shit for not being happier about pushing the car, but this time will be different, we swear!"
Nobody who is advocating for Alberta is saying "never an electric car" in this thread, but to continue this metaphor, we'd like to continue filling the tank until we can AFFORD the electric car. Changing the driver to someone who wants to put a damn supercharger on the car is going to hurt us in the long term, not the short term. Richy was saying that Ford/Kenney will sink the economy. This won't be true in the short term, but it might be true in the long term.
There's lots of provinces in this union. Why are Alberta and Ontario the only have provinces? If Alberta stopped being a have province, and instead was like it was 100 years ago or so when Alberta relied on the rest of Canada, is that better?
There's no dichotomy and I'm not trying to make one, but if Alberta is so goddamn awful, where's everyone else? What is everyone else doing? Why isn't BC a net contributor? Or Quebec?
Why is the Canadian economy on fucking Alberta to fix?
Currently, it's pretty en vogue to hate on Alberta for not having the foresight to have diversified when we were at our best. We had opportunity to add value to ourselves, but we (our past leadership) chose to double down, and we're losing our chance because of that choice. But the same can be said for the Maritimes and their fishing boom. The same can be said for BC and lumber.
Alberta is between a rock and a hard place because we're expected both to shoulder our immense current and future social program costs across the country, and yet be the driving force for environmental change. Both of these things CANNOT happen at the same time.
Let's not go down the same path of non-Albertans passing off all of Canada's economic and environmental short comings falling at Alberta's feet, and us Albertan's leaping to NOT ME FUCK YOU NOT OUR FAULT. It's not our fault, but currently, it is our problem.
I personally want to gas up the car for one more generation, and get the FUCK out of this car. Electric maybe, but fuck what if the next big thing is HyperLoop? I'd be down for that too. Diversify, and survive.
Edit: But we need to be able to afford diversification, first. It didn't get done last time we had a chance, it needs to happen now, and it needs to happen soon.
BouwsT on
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
Currently, it's pretty en vogue to hate on Alberta for not having the foresight to have diversified when we were at our best. We had opportunity to add value to ourselves, but we (our past leadership) chose to double down, and we're losing our chance because of that choice. But the same can be said for the Maritimes and their fishing boom. The same can be said for BC and lumber.
Alberta is between a rock and a hard place because we're expected both to shoulder our immense current and future social program costs across the country, and yet be the driving force for environmental change. Both of these things CANNOT happen at the same time.
Let's not go down the same path of non-Albertans passing off all of Canada's economic and environmental short comings falling at Alberta's feet, and us Albertan's leaping to NOT ME FUCK YOU NOT OUR FAULT. It's not our fault, but currently, it is our problem.
I personally want to gas up the car for one more generation, and get the FUCK out of this car. Electric maybe, but fuck what if the next big thing is HyperLoop? I'd be down for that too. Diversify, and survive.
(I'm also somewhat hard-pressed to imagine what supplants lumber as a building material sometime in the near future, though I suppose that's the point, not being able to predict emergent materials technologies. Maybe advanced composites? But they'd need to get a LOT LOT cheaper somehow to compete with lumber.)
Also, there's no hating on the Maritime provinces and their doubling down on the fishing boom because that's in the past. If I'd been around at the time, and was of the same level of maturity and knowledge, I'd be calling it a bad idea then too! It's specifically because we can look at how fucked the Maritime provinces were by the collapse of the fishing industry that we can turn around and say, "Hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing that exact same thing with a natural resource extraction industry operating at unsustainable levels and subject to radical global price fluctuations!" (And, FWIW, IIRC it was more complicated for the Maritime provinces, as they suffered collapses of other industries too at the same time, including lumber. Newfoundland tried to diversify into oil extraction, but it didn't pan out well, I think?)
Currently, it's pretty en vogue to hate on Alberta for not having the foresight to have diversified when we were at our best. We had opportunity to add value to ourselves, but we (our past leadership) chose to double down, and we're losing our chance because of that choice. But the same can be said for the Maritimes and their fishing boom. The same can be said for BC and lumber.
Alberta is between a rock and a hard place because we're expected both to shoulder our immense current and future social program costs across the country, and yet be the driving force for environmental change. Both of these things CANNOT happen at the same time.
Let's not go down the same path of non-Albertans passing off all of Canada's economic and environmental short comings falling at Alberta's feet, and us Albertan's leaping to NOT ME FUCK YOU NOT OUR FAULT. It's not our fault, but currently, it is our problem.
I personally want to gas up the car for one more generation, and get the FUCK out of this car. Electric maybe, but fuck what if the next big thing is HyperLoop? I'd be down for that too. Diversify, and survive.
(I'm also somewhat hard-pressed to imagine what supplants lumber as a building material sometime in the near future, though I suppose that's the point, not being able to predict emergent materials technologies. Maybe advanced composites? But they'd need to get a LOT LOT cheaper somehow to compete with lumber.)
Also, there's no hating on the Maritime provinces and their doubling down on the fishing boom because that's in the past. If I'd been around at the time, and was of the same level of maturity and knowledge, I'd be calling it a bad idea then too! It's specifically because we can look at how fucked the Maritime provinces were by the collapse of the fishing industry that we can turn around and say, "Hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing that exact same thing with a natural resource extraction industry operating at unsustainable levels and subject to radical global price fluctuations!" (And, FWIW, IIRC it was more complicated for the Maritime provinces, as they suffered collapses of other industries too at the same time, including lumber. Newfoundland tried to diversify into oil extraction, but it didn't pan out well, I think?)
YOur not wrong.
Bc has done a bang-up job of diversifying from materials.
However, the biggest industry there is still construction/real estate and the whole province is constantly teetering on an inevitable real estate crash so not sure we should be tooting them as an example of wise economic planning.
Currently, it's pretty en vogue to hate on Alberta for not having the foresight to have diversified when we were at our best. We had opportunity to add value to ourselves, but we (our past leadership) chose to double down, and we're losing our chance because of that choice. But the same can be said for the Maritimes and their fishing boom. The same can be said for BC and lumber.
Alberta is between a rock and a hard place because we're expected both to shoulder our immense current and future social program costs across the country, and yet be the driving force for environmental change. Both of these things CANNOT happen at the same time.
Let's not go down the same path of non-Albertans passing off all of Canada's economic and environmental short comings falling at Alberta's feet, and us Albertan's leaping to NOT ME FUCK YOU NOT OUR FAULT. It's not our fault, but currently, it is our problem.
I personally want to gas up the car for one more generation, and get the FUCK out of this car. Electric maybe, but fuck what if the next big thing is HyperLoop? I'd be down for that too. Diversify, and survive.
(I'm also somewhat hard-pressed to imagine what supplants lumber as a building material sometime in the near future, though I suppose that's the point, not being able to predict emergent materials technologies. Maybe advanced composites? But they'd need to get a LOT LOT cheaper somehow to compete with lumber.)
Also, there's no hating on the Maritime provinces and their doubling down on the fishing boom because that's in the past. If I'd been around at the time, and was of the same level of maturity and knowledge, I'd be calling it a bad idea then too! It's specifically because we can look at how fucked the Maritime provinces were by the collapse of the fishing industry that we can turn around and say, "Hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing that exact same thing with a natural resource extraction industry operating at unsustainable levels and subject to radical global price fluctuations!" (And, FWIW, IIRC it was more complicated for the Maritime provinces, as they suffered collapses of other industries too at the same time, including lumber. Newfoundland tried to diversify into oil extraction, but it didn't pan out well, I think?)
YOur not wrong.
Bc has done a bang-up job of diversifying from materials.
However, the biggest industry there is still construction/real estate and the whole province is constantly teetering on an inevitable real estate crash so not sure we should be tooting them as an example of wise economic planning.
Dude, construction/real estate is the biggest industry in every province. That's specifically why the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008 was so dangerous, because construction is always the biggest (industrial) employment sector in any jurisdiction.
Currently, it's pretty en vogue to hate on Alberta for not having the foresight to have diversified when we were at our best. We had opportunity to add value to ourselves, but we (our past leadership) chose to double down, and we're losing our chance because of that choice. But the same can be said for the Maritimes and their fishing boom. The same can be said for BC and lumber.
Alberta is between a rock and a hard place because we're expected both to shoulder our immense current and future social program costs across the country, and yet be the driving force for environmental change. Both of these things CANNOT happen at the same time.
Let's not go down the same path of non-Albertans passing off all of Canada's economic and environmental short comings falling at Alberta's feet, and us Albertan's leaping to NOT ME FUCK YOU NOT OUR FAULT. It's not our fault, but currently, it is our problem.
I personally want to gas up the car for one more generation, and get the FUCK out of this car. Electric maybe, but fuck what if the next big thing is HyperLoop? I'd be down for that too. Diversify, and survive.
(I'm also somewhat hard-pressed to imagine what supplants lumber as a building material sometime in the near future, though I suppose that's the point, not being able to predict emergent materials technologies. Maybe advanced composites? But they'd need to get a LOT LOT cheaper somehow to compete with lumber.)
Also, there's no hating on the Maritime provinces and their doubling down on the fishing boom because that's in the past. If I'd been around at the time, and was of the same level of maturity and knowledge, I'd be calling it a bad idea then too! It's specifically because we can look at how fucked the Maritime provinces were by the collapse of the fishing industry that we can turn around and say, "Hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing that exact same thing with a natural resource extraction industry operating at unsustainable levels and subject to radical global price fluctuations!"
My point was the boom-bust cycles of lumber/mill industry the mid 20th century that BC endured. I'm glad that RECENTLY they are doing big things, but it's not like they rode the crest of a boom into diversification.
You're also right in that right now there doesn't appear to be a good replacement for lumber, but who knows? Same goes with our carbon extraction. Maybe hydrogen? Maybe electric? They're going to have to get cheaper though, so in the mean time we should be getting VALUE for that resource to GET AWAY from it.
Finally, you're right, we don't (and shouldn't) hate the Maritimes for falling on tough times. Thankfully other provinces came into their own to be able to shoulder some of that cost! However there sure as shit seems to be hatred for Alberta for somehow both not being able to both get off the bitumen teet, as well as fix all of it's environmental short-comings, and definitely do all of this without your most lucrative asset, which it should have had the good foresight to get off of in the first place.
What I want to avoid/point out is this thread devolving into the Alberta shoulda-woulda-coulda thread. We've been over that far to many times before, the only thing it leads to is non-Albertans getting super high and mighty/hand wavey, and Albertans getting super defensive. It goes nowhere for pages.
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
Currently, it's pretty en vogue to hate on Alberta for not having the foresight to have diversified when we were at our best. We had opportunity to add value to ourselves, but we (our past leadership) chose to double down, and we're losing our chance because of that choice. But the same can be said for the Maritimes and their fishing boom. The same can be said for BC and lumber.
Alberta is between a rock and a hard place because we're expected both to shoulder our immense current and future social program costs across the country, and yet be the driving force for environmental change. Both of these things CANNOT happen at the same time.
Let's not go down the same path of non-Albertans passing off all of Canada's economic and environmental short comings falling at Alberta's feet, and us Albertan's leaping to NOT ME FUCK YOU NOT OUR FAULT. It's not our fault, but currently, it is our problem.
I personally want to gas up the car for one more generation, and get the FUCK out of this car. Electric maybe, but fuck what if the next big thing is HyperLoop? I'd be down for that too. Diversify, and survive.
(I'm also somewhat hard-pressed to imagine what supplants lumber as a building material sometime in the near future, though I suppose that's the point, not being able to predict emergent materials technologies. Maybe advanced composites? But they'd need to get a LOT LOT cheaper somehow to compete with lumber.)
Also, there's no hating on the Maritime provinces and their doubling down on the fishing boom because that's in the past. If I'd been around at the time, and was of the same level of maturity and knowledge, I'd be calling it a bad idea then too! It's specifically because we can look at how fucked the Maritime provinces were by the collapse of the fishing industry that we can turn around and say, "Hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing that exact same thing with a natural resource extraction industry operating at unsustainable levels and subject to radical global price fluctuations!" (And, FWIW, IIRC it was more complicated for the Maritime provinces, as they suffered collapses of other industries too at the same time, including lumber. Newfoundland tried to diversify into oil extraction, but it didn't pan out well, I think?)
YOur not wrong.
Bc has done a bang-up job of diversifying from materials.
However, the biggest industry there is still construction/real estate and the whole province is constantly teetering on an inevitable real estate crash so not sure we should be tooting them as an example of wise economic planning.
Dude, construction/real estate is the biggest industry in every province. That's specifically why the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008 was so dangerous, because construction is always the biggest (industrial) employment sector in any jurisdiction.
On mobile and can't seem to track down the article right now but a much higher percentage of BC's GDP is from new home sales than anywhere in canada if I remeber correctly.
Currently, it's pretty en vogue to hate on Alberta for not having the foresight to have diversified when we were at our best. We had opportunity to add value to ourselves, but we (our past leadership) chose to double down, and we're losing our chance because of that choice. But the same can be said for the Maritimes and their fishing boom. The same can be said for BC and lumber.
Alberta is between a rock and a hard place because we're expected both to shoulder our immense current and future social program costs across the country, and yet be the driving force for environmental change. Both of these things CANNOT happen at the same time.
Let's not go down the same path of non-Albertans passing off all of Canada's economic and environmental short comings falling at Alberta's feet, and us Albertan's leaping to NOT ME FUCK YOU NOT OUR FAULT. It's not our fault, but currently, it is our problem.
I personally want to gas up the car for one more generation, and get the FUCK out of this car. Electric maybe, but fuck what if the next big thing is HyperLoop? I'd be down for that too. Diversify, and survive.
(I'm also somewhat hard-pressed to imagine what supplants lumber as a building material sometime in the near future, though I suppose that's the point, not being able to predict emergent materials technologies. Maybe advanced composites? But they'd need to get a LOT LOT cheaper somehow to compete with lumber.)
Also, there's no hating on the Maritime provinces and their doubling down on the fishing boom because that's in the past. If I'd been around at the time, and was of the same level of maturity and knowledge, I'd be calling it a bad idea then too! It's specifically because we can look at how fucked the Maritime provinces were by the collapse of the fishing industry that we can turn around and say, "Hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing that exact same thing with a natural resource extraction industry operating at unsustainable levels and subject to radical global price fluctuations!" (And, FWIW, IIRC it was more complicated for the Maritime provinces, as they suffered collapses of other industries too at the same time, including lumber. Newfoundland tried to diversify into oil extraction, but it didn't pan out well, I think?)
YOur not wrong.
Bc has done a bang-up job of diversifying from materials.
However, the biggest industry there is still construction/real estate and the whole province is constantly teetering on an inevitable real estate crash so not sure we should be tooting them as an example of wise economic planning.
Dude, construction/real estate is the biggest industry in every province. That's specifically why the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008 was so dangerous, because construction is always the biggest (industrial) employment sector in any jurisdiction.
On mobile and can't seem to track down the article right now but a much higher percentage of BC's GDP is from new home sales than anywhere in canada if I remeber correctly.
I may also be remebering this wrong as well
That's purely a matter of house prices rising. The higher house prices are, the more they add to GDP. The more times they're bought/sold, the more they add to GDP. It's less a comment about overreliance on the housing industry and more on the unsuitability of GDP in measuring economic health. (You'll note that the US's GDP in 2017 was great!)
Sure, the party that last balanced the budget is the debt death star, and the party that turned that surplus into the greatest deficit in Canadian history is the rebels standing up to them.
Sure, the party that last balanced the budget is the debt death star, and the party that turned that surplus into the greatest deficit in Canadian history is the rebels standing up to them.
What a pile of garbage.
Also, somehow, the authoritarian party dedicated to renforcing the power of the powerfuls over everyone else is cast as the rebellion.
The metaphor really fail at every level.
+5
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Sure, the party that last balanced the budget is the debt death star, and the party that turned that surplus into the greatest deficit in Canadian history is the rebels standing up to them.
What a pile of garbage.
This is the number one thing I cannot stand when speaking with people who support the conservatives. Every single conservative government has run huge deficits over the time frame of MY ENTIRE LIFE. People who talk about them as the fiscally sound party are straight up liars.
Sure, the party that last balanced the budget is the debt death star, and the party that turned that surplus into the greatest deficit in Canadian history is the rebels standing up to them.
What a pile of garbage.
Also, somehow, the authoritarian party dedicated to renforcing the power of the powerfuls over everyone else is cast as the rebellion.
The metaphor really fail at every level.
Evict the refugees, the Rebels said. "Show us your authentic Rebel papers, or go back to Tatooine!"
Posts
Seriously? This is a real thing? For really real? (I keep asking because I can't believe it!)
Good lord, I looked it up and now I feel like my cookies are tainted. https://spoofees.com/collections/make-ontario-great-again/products/make-ontario-great-again-trucker-cap-moga
How can Ford continue act indignant when being compared to Trump then? How can he lash out at Wynne for being paranoid and drawing conclusions where there are none, yadda yadda yadda... when his supporters out there are sporting MOGA hats and Ford Nation shirts?
Because being intellectually dishonest is the cornerstone of modern conservatism.
This is a relief, since we were talking about hockey for a second I thought MOGA stood for Make Oilers Great Again.
Nothing says 'professional website' to me like a pop-up window that sales 'Use this space to highlight sales and discounts for your customers!".
Also, I love how they're offering a MOGA hat, shirt and 'fire Notley' shirt. Either they don't know or care where Notley is premier, or their customers don't. Or both.
I mean that would be even more intellectually dishonest. We all know they'll never be good again.
Steam: CavilatRest
I see "fire Wynne" t-shirts in that package, not Notley. They're white, with Wynne's photoshop-cropped head surrounded by flames. Is that the same as the Notley t-shirts?
What a turd
Fascinating.
EDIT: You love to trash Alberta for it's economic choices and now you're worried that something might change? IF Alberta were to drastically reduce its carbon footprint, and reduce its oil output, as you want, it would no longer be an economic engine for the country. Maybe in a few decades other industries might step up, but right now, if Alberta does what you want, its economy would enter a massive recession. And now you post that?
People trash Alberta for continually doubling down on the oil sector and regressive economics, and now it looks like they're preparing to do that again to an extreme. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
This. Alberta going "drill,drill,drill" is actually great for the Canadian economy.
To be clear, I want what's best for Alberta. I want the people there to do well. These are my fellow Canadians. It's frustrating and disheartening to see this pattern of such self destructive behavior. It's a tough pill to swallow, but Alberta needs to realize that maybe they won't be as much of an economic powerhouse going forward. Eventually, regardless of anything to do with politics, the reality of finite resources are going to pull that rug out from under you, and I don't want you guys to be caught off guard and fall on your face when that happens.
In the short term it may create an economic boost. However, the long term losses far outweigh the short term gains.
However, it wasn't very long ago that this thread in its previous incarnation advocated Alberta's oil production to be essentially halted because of the carbon footprint. Richy being a strong proponent of the "Fuck Alberta" sentiment also had plenty to say about how bad Alberta is. The economic fallout from such drastic actions would be catastrophic.
So forgive me if I sarcastically mimed the jerk off motion at his sudden concern with Alberta being able to keep pouring oil money into the equalization program.
Ever watch breaking bad?
Lot's of Albertan's see the rest of Canada like the wife in that show, Skyler.
Constantly bitching about where the money comes from and how terrible we are for making money this way but no problems spending it ...
No, cuz not getting fucked the next time the Saudis decide to screw around with the global market is also great for the economy.
"Making more money" != "good for the economy." The economy serves us, not the other way around.
It just isn't actually great for the Canadian economy if we are just going to all have to hold our collective noses till the whole thing goes bust again! WTF.
"When the engine ran out of gas, even though you all were saying from the back seat to look at the gas gauge or that we should look into an electric car, sure that was terrible, a real awkward stop at the side of the road when we gave you shit for not being happier about pushing the car, but this time will be different, we swear!"
Making money = good for the economy = more taxes = more social services + healthcare + capital projects + infrastructure = better for everyone.
Or am I missing something?
There's lots of provinces in this union. Why are Alberta and Ontario the only have provinces? If Alberta stopped being a have province, and instead was like it was 100 years ago or so when Alberta relied on the rest of Canada, is that better?
There's no dichotomy and I'm not trying to make one, but if Alberta is so goddamn awful, where's everyone else? What is everyone else doing? Why isn't BC a net contributor? Or Quebec?
Why is the Canadian economy on fucking Alberta to fix?
It's based on some arcane economic calculation that I don't understand, but isn't necessarily just on provincial wealth. But it's related to GDP, taxes, and then a comparison against the national average GDP and tax rate or something like that.
Ok, but Albertans are still going to be out of jobs.
I mean you could have mobile gangs of job seekers roving the provinces any time an industry dries up, but it's just not ideal, what with the cost of gas and all.
The remaining provinces receive equalization payments.
https://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/mtp-eng.asp
There is also evidence that the major oil boom in the country depresses other sectors such as manufacturing and services which are major industries in places like Ontario and Quebec.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/the-canadian-dollar-oil-and-canadas-dutch-disease/article20509692/
Nobody who is advocating for Alberta is saying "never an electric car" in this thread, but to continue this metaphor, we'd like to continue filling the tank until we can AFFORD the electric car. Changing the driver to someone who wants to put a damn supercharger on the car is going to hurt us in the long term, not the short term. Richy was saying that Ford/Kenney will sink the economy. This won't be true in the short term, but it might be true in the long term.
Currently, it's pretty en vogue to hate on Alberta for not having the foresight to have diversified when we were at our best. We had opportunity to add value to ourselves, but we (our past leadership) chose to double down, and we're losing our chance because of that choice. But the same can be said for the Maritimes and their fishing boom. The same can be said for BC and lumber.
Alberta is between a rock and a hard place because we're expected both to shoulder our immense current and future social program costs across the country, and yet be the driving force for environmental change. Both of these things CANNOT happen at the same time.
Let's not go down the same path of non-Albertans passing off all of Canada's economic and environmental short comings falling at Alberta's feet, and us Albertan's leaping to NOT ME FUCK YOU NOT OUR FAULT. It's not our fault, but currently, it is our problem.
I personally want to gas up the car for one more generation, and get the FUCK out of this car. Electric maybe, but fuck what if the next big thing is HyperLoop? I'd be down for that too. Diversify, and survive.
Edit: But we need to be able to afford diversification, first. It didn't get done last time we had a chance, it needs to happen now, and it needs to happen soon.
Hmmm, what? Did you miss, for example, BC picking up a new Amazon office and the 3000 jobs it'll come with? By government statistics, the BC forestry industry only supplies ~19 000 jobs (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/data/statistics/employment-labour/labour-market-statistics) or 57 000 according to the BC Forestry Innovation Investment group (https://www.bcfii.ca/bc-forests-and-markets/bc-forest-sector-overview). Either way, that's less than 2.5% of the total ~2.5M employed BCians.
(I'm also somewhat hard-pressed to imagine what supplants lumber as a building material sometime in the near future, though I suppose that's the point, not being able to predict emergent materials technologies. Maybe advanced composites? But they'd need to get a LOT LOT cheaper somehow to compete with lumber.)
Also, there's no hating on the Maritime provinces and their doubling down on the fishing boom because that's in the past. If I'd been around at the time, and was of the same level of maturity and knowledge, I'd be calling it a bad idea then too! It's specifically because we can look at how fucked the Maritime provinces were by the collapse of the fishing industry that we can turn around and say, "Hey, maybe you shouldn't be doing that exact same thing with a natural resource extraction industry operating at unsustainable levels and subject to radical global price fluctuations!" (And, FWIW, IIRC it was more complicated for the Maritime provinces, as they suffered collapses of other industries too at the same time, including lumber. Newfoundland tried to diversify into oil extraction, but it didn't pan out well, I think?)
https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
YOur not wrong.
Bc has done a bang-up job of diversifying from materials.
However, the biggest industry there is still construction/real estate and the whole province is constantly teetering on an inevitable real estate crash so not sure we should be tooting them as an example of wise economic planning.
http://credbc.ca/role-energy-sector-bcs-economy/
Dude, construction/real estate is the biggest industry in every province. That's specifically why the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008 was so dangerous, because construction is always the biggest (industrial) employment sector in any jurisdiction.
Construction employs 241.7K of BC's 2.5M workers (https://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/labr67k-eng.htm), just like it employs 240.8K of Alberta's 2.3M workers (https://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/labr67j-eng.htm). BC employs more in Finance, insurance, real estate, rental and leasing (154K vs 112K), but not substantially so given Vancouver's prominence as an urban centre. (Also, that "sector" is much more internally diverse.)
My point was the boom-bust cycles of lumber/mill industry the mid 20th century that BC endured. I'm glad that RECENTLY they are doing big things, but it's not like they rode the crest of a boom into diversification.
You're also right in that right now there doesn't appear to be a good replacement for lumber, but who knows? Same goes with our carbon extraction. Maybe hydrogen? Maybe electric? They're going to have to get cheaper though, so in the mean time we should be getting VALUE for that resource to GET AWAY from it.
Finally, you're right, we don't (and shouldn't) hate the Maritimes for falling on tough times. Thankfully other provinces came into their own to be able to shoulder some of that cost! However there sure as shit seems to be hatred for Alberta for somehow both not being able to both get off the bitumen teet, as well as fix all of it's environmental short-comings, and definitely do all of this without your most lucrative asset, which it should have had the good foresight to get off of in the first place.
What I want to avoid/point out is this thread devolving into the Alberta shoulda-woulda-coulda thread. We've been over that far to many times before, the only thing it leads to is non-Albertans getting super high and mighty/hand wavey, and Albertans getting super defensive. It goes nowhere for pages.
On mobile and can't seem to track down the article right now but a much higher percentage of BC's GDP is from new home sales than anywhere in canada if I remeber correctly.
I may also be remebering this wrong as well
People are going to be so pissed if that happens
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/the-conservative-party-of-canada-just-released-a-star-wars-themed-video/amp
That's purely a matter of house prices rising. The higher house prices are, the more they add to GDP. The more times they're bought/sold, the more they add to GDP. It's less a comment about overreliance on the housing industry and more on the unsuitability of GDP in measuring economic health. (You'll note that the US's GDP in 2017 was great!)
Sure, the party that last balanced the budget is the debt death star, and the party that turned that surplus into the greatest deficit in Canadian history is the rebels standing up to them.
What a pile of garbage.
Also, somehow, the authoritarian party dedicated to renforcing the power of the powerfuls over everyone else is cast as the rebellion.
The metaphor really fail at every level.
This is the number one thing I cannot stand when speaking with people who support the conservatives. Every single conservative government has run huge deficits over the time frame of MY ENTIRE LIFE. People who talk about them as the fiscally sound party are straight up liars.
Evict the refugees, the Rebels said. "Show us your authentic Rebel papers, or go back to Tatooine!"