Strike First, Strike Hard, No Mercy [Cobra Kai] (open spoilers)

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    I think the mixed signals are intentional, and good. For people brought up on movies like Karate Kid, we’re conditioned to root for the underdogs, because we see ourselves in them.

    Letting the Cobra Kais become assholes and bullies themselves while continuing to hold the mirror up and make us question ourselves for initially rooting for them is excellent if only for provoking the critical thinking, but also that’s how life goes. Someone who’s oppressed can become an oppressor and vice versa.

    That’s not really the mixed signals I’m talking about

    It’s that the show seems to simultaneously be throwing shade at Johnny and Danny for still caring so much about these dumb karate tournaments, essentially saying ‘you’re middle-aged, why do you care about Cobra-Kai so much?’ while simultaneously treating the very existence of Cobra Kai as a huge deal.

    It’s like it never really commits to being either 80s camp or tongue-in-cheek, and tries to shift between the two at really odd times.

  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    4 episodes in now.

    I'm loving how it's really not the obvious "Johnny is bad and Daniel is good" thing.

    And I really, really loved when Johnny, after seeing that scene in the diner, ends up running trying to get Miguel back. It was him letting go of the past and embracing the future in a tiny way, specially for someone with so many issues still in the past.

    Then there's Daniel, who kinda looks like he has a privileged life, but his home is all chaos. His son practically ignore him, he has issues with his daughter, and I'm certain he and his wife don't see eye to eye on quite a few more things that had been shown.

    I'm hooked on this.

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    Javen wrote: »
    Matev wrote: »
    I think the mixed signals are intentional, and good. For people brought up on movies like Karate Kid, we’re conditioned to root for the underdogs, because we see ourselves in them.

    Letting the Cobra Kais become assholes and bullies themselves while continuing to hold the mirror up and make us question ourselves for initially rooting for them is excellent if only for provoking the critical thinking, but also that’s how life goes. Someone who’s oppressed can become an oppressor and vice versa.

    That’s not really the mixed signals I’m talking about

    It’s that the show seems to simultaneously be throwing shade at Johnny and Danny for still caring so much about these dumb karate tournaments, essentially saying ‘you’re middle-aged, why do you care about Cobra-Kai so much?’ while simultaneously treating the very existence of Cobra Kai as a huge deal.

    It’s like it never really commits to being either 80s camp or tongue-in-cheek, and tries to shift between the two at really odd times.

    It's not Cobra Kai itself that's being taken seriously, but the toxic ethos it promotes and embodies. Like, it's ok to poke fun at (Which I think it does a bit, but not that much) and/or deconstruct Danny and Johnny for dwelling on the past while asserting "Yo, these life lessons taught by this martial arts school are pretty shitty and it's bad to perpetuate them."

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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    I think Cobra Kai is a less subtle equivalent to "Fight Club," where a big chunk of the audience will still assume it's a celebration of toxic masculinity rather than a deconstruction.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    I got through episode five by myself

    Then my husband was like what I heard about that show NPR I wanna watch it

    So we started over!

    It's still good

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
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    For some reason, this little detail made me laugh uncontrollably. It sounded very Zoolander ("Derek Zoolander's School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"), even though it's a perfectly cromulent way to fill out a form.

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  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Man, zarei to Miyagi... :cry:

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  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    I truly cannot believe how much I liked this. cannot fucking believe it.

    Just finished watching the whole thing with my wife and we both loved it. That pretty much sums up our feelings with this series and we are both looking forward to season 2. It's just fun all around and has some pretty awesome messages.

    Also those Cobra Kai Gi's were frikken awesome, and we both want one.

    Seeing Daniel have to fight his own hotheadedness and try to find balance in order to be able to teach that to Robby (in contrast to how much Miyagi seemed to always have the answers.)

    I kinda liked that Johnny got to see what No Mercy feels from the other end in the final fight and how bittersweet that win felt for him. I'm kinda conflicted in the ending, though, because I'm not sure where they will take Kreese's return (or if he was even 'real' to begin with.)

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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    So I just found out Ralph Macchio is 56!

    I mean I get it, if he was 20 in 1984 he would be over 50 now, but 56... Man looks good for his age. Even if he has Botox or dyed hair, he looks good.

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Ten minutes into the first episode and I'm hooked. This show is better than it has any right to be.

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Ten minutes into the first episode and I'm hooked. This show is better than it has any right to be.

    This only gets more true as the show goes on.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Ten minutes into the first episode and I'm hooked. This show is better than it has any right to be.

    Right!?

    Johnny starts having flashbacks and then YOU'RE having flashbacks and it's like I'M GONNA WATCH ALL OF THIS

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  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    I've never seen any Karate Kid movies (I didn't even know there were sequels to it until we talked about the show at work), I have zero 80's nostalgia but I still really liked Cobra Kai.

    This is a really compelling character driven drama that just happens to look like another cash grab retro-revival upon cursory inspection.

    Frankly, I'm very happy people kept telling me it was actually good, because I had zero interest, having lumped it into the same category as Ghostbusters 2016, Robocop 2014, Total Recall 2012, Conan the Barbarian 2011, etc. etc.

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  • CantideCantide Registered User regular
    I binge watched this over the last couple days. It was a lot of fun, though I could’ve done without the conservative slant on things. While Johnny is clearly meant to be seen as a jerk, the show often portrays him as someone who’s “just telling it like it is”, like when his bullying of Eli ends up working out. Conversely, you’ve got characters like the school teacher and Xander who cite progressive ideas, but only exist to be objects of ridicule.

    I’m hoping season 2 continues the evolution of Johnny’s character and sees him rejecting more of the toxic masculinity traits he’s still dragging around.

  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited May 2018
    I just finished Episode 1, and I'm hooked.

    As someone that's trained in karate and taken a couple of breaks that were measured in years, I completely understood and laughed my ass off when Johnny pulled his groin on that first jumping round kick.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Things I loved about the show:
    • There is no "good guy/bad guy" dynamic. It's just two guys dealing with life.
    • A modern take on bullying in schools, not just physical but psychological (that smart phone gif of the girl eating).
    • Daniel's mom! GAHH!
    • The throwback stuff being there without being too much (the golfland place, Daniel's apartment, etc).
    • Having Miguel be the bullied and become the bully.
    • Daniel and Johnny about to fight at the pool only to have the wife step in with the "Knock it off you old fucks."
    • Daniel and Johnny hanging out and bonding. "Yeah, it'll be our Rocky 3 ending".
    • Miyagi's grave scene. Damn, that shit was heartfelt and real by Macchio.

    Honestly I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. The writer's really understood the source material and gave us everything we never knew we wanted. Glad to hear a second season has been greenlit. Unfortunately, that means I will have to get a subscription to YT:Red.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Things I loved about the show:
    • There is no "good guy/bad guy" dynamic. It's just two guys dealing with life.
    • A modern take on bullying in schools, not just physical but psychological (that smart phone gif of the girl eating).
    • Daniel's mom! GAHH!
    • The throwback stuff being there without being too much (the golfland place, Daniel's apartment, etc).
    • Having Miguel be the bullied and become the bully.
    • Daniel and Johnny about to fight at the pool only to have the wife step in with the "Knock it off you old fucks."
    • Daniel and Johnny hanging out and bonding. "Yeah, it'll be our Rocky 3 ending".
    • Miyagi's grave scene. Damn, that shit was heartfelt and real by Macchio.

    Honestly I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. The writer's really understood the source material and gave us everything we never knew we wanted. Glad to hear a second season has been greenlit. Unfortunately, that means I will have to get a subscription to YT:Red.
    Once you get it, you’ll despise ads when your accessing YouTube from a different device. You won’t be able to go back.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    We got through ep 6 and 7 last night

    Still so good

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Things I loved about the show:
    • There is no "good guy/bad guy" dynamic. It's just two guys dealing with life.
    • A modern take on bullying in schools, not just physical but psychological (that smart phone gif of the girl eating).
    • Daniel's mom! GAHH!
    • The throwback stuff being there without being too much (the golfland place, Daniel's apartment, etc).
    • Having Miguel be the bullied and become the bully.
    • Daniel and Johnny about to fight at the pool only to have the wife step in with the "Knock it off you old fucks."
    • Daniel and Johnny hanging out and bonding. "Yeah, it'll be our Rocky 3 ending".
    • Miyagi's grave scene. Damn, that shit was heartfelt and real by Macchio.

    Honestly I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. The writer's really understood the source material and gave us everything we never knew we wanted. Glad to hear a second season has been greenlit. Unfortunately, that means I will have to get a subscription to YT:Red.
    Once you get it, you’ll despise ads when your accessing YouTube from a different device. You won’t be able to go back.

    Youtube has ads?

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    I appreciate the backstory on Johnny

    He's so close to really getting it right with these kids

    Then it's swerve into "NO PUSSIES, FIGHTING IS THE ONLY PATH" and you're just like oh honey no

    The upcoming Romeo and Juliet drama has me salivating tho

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Btw guys I painted a fence today so I basically know karate now

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Btw guys I painted a fence today so I basically know karate now

    But did you scrub floors?

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Btw guys I painted a fence today so I basically know karate now

    But did you scrub floors?

    What about washing and waxing a collection of vintage cars?

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    Fry
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Don't worry about it

  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Binged this (again) with the rest of my family. Still loved it.

    I still think Miguel wasn't that crazy for thinking Sam was doing weird stuff, though the aggression did get to his head.

    I still call absolute bullshit on her being any kind of proficient after 8 years of not training (since she was 8.)

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    I appreciate the backstory on Johnny

    He's so close to really getting it right with these kids

    Then it's swerve into "NO PUSSIES, FIGHTING IS THE ONLY PATH" and you're just like oh honey no

    The upcoming Romeo and Juliet drama has me salivating tho

    I read some comments on the dojo training scenes with Johnny teaching the new students that showed up after Miguel's fight. There were people saying "What kid's need these days" and "No safe spaces" sort of stuff. Naturally, it's a left/right mindset headbutt sandwich.

    To me though, I think it shows that the answer to a lot of these problems is, as per usual, somewhere in the middle. Johnny also mirrors a lot of people in that he doesn't understand what the kids are going through these days, something which I was happy to see him get called out on. While bullying and shitty childhood transcend time, the way society perceives problems certainly changes in each generation.

    In short, it's another example of great writing in the show and how it can pertain to modern problems without it being so overtly slammed in your face.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    We finished the last two eps

    I spilled tea on myself excitedly talking about Johnny and Robby's drama

    This show should be a cheap nostalgia cash in but it's just really well done, managing to be nostalgic while new at the same time and I love it?

    Anyway I'm buying a bunch of Cobra Kai stickers don't @ me

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    edited May 2018
    This show has no right to be as good as it is.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    They really need to release this on DVD/Blu-Ray. I usually don't buy them any more with all the digital options, but would 100% scoop this up.

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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    One thing I don't buy is the idea that Daniel could rise up to own his own line of car dealerships. Mainly because of the barriers to entry in that particular industry that he would have no way of overcoming.

    Schrodinger on
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    One thing I don't buy is the idea that Daniel could rise up to own his own line of car dealerships. Mainly because of the barriers to entry in that particular industry that he would have no way of overcoming.

    Well, it has been over 30 years and a lot can happen. Plus his wife seems pretty smart and capable, so maybe she helped him get past the barriers. Plus, you can never underestimate the power of being a two-time teenage karate champion in this world.

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  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    One thing I don't buy is the idea that Daniel could rise up to own his own line of car dealerships. Mainly because of the barriers to entry in that particular industry that he would have no way of overcoming.

    Well, it has been over 30 years and a lot can happen. Plus his wife seems pretty smart and capable, so maybe she helped him get past the barriers. Plus, you can never underestimate the power of being a two-time teenage karate champion in this world.

    He kicked the competition.

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    I just finished this (I was kind of savoring it and also it has been a busy videogame week) and I could not be happier with this show.

    There are so many ways it could have gone wrong. It could have been, as everyone has noted, a shallow nostalgia wallow.

    It could also have been - and I was actually a lot more afraid of this - a gross, icky-feeling thing where a bunch of smug, smart-aleck modern comedy writers pluck a couple of aging actors from obscurity and make them debase and assassinate their own beloved characters for a few months of work.

    What we got instead was something that built on the source material in a way that felt natural and real without merely making a lifeless carbon copy of it. The places these characters' lives went make sense; the things they do make sense. At the same time, though, this isn't a gritty docudrama - it makes room for humor, soap-opera misunderstandings, and some authentic family drama.

    This is actually totally in keeping with the original film, which I think people sometimes misremember as one of those Remember The Titans-y super-earnest, cornball sports movies where people trade platitudes about being THE BEST, but is instead actually a pretty funny and grounded movie that spends a lot less of its time than you'd think on karate and a lot more of its time on exploring how a trash-mouthed Jersey kid adjusts to life in the Valley. It's a bunch of things: it's a underdog sports film but it's also a teen drama and a coming-of-age movie and a comedy. That blend is why it was good.

    I am so glad this show was made by people who understand that and, moreover, are able to walk that line. The proportions are mixed a little differently - the adults get a lot more screen time, things are a little more overtly comic - but it never feels like it's taking place in some different world than the movie.

    And I love all the new characters just as much as the returning ones, and I'm invested in this story and want to see what happens to these people. I am definitely following this train wherever it goes.

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I really think they did a just about perfect job with this show. There were things I had reservations about, and they were all cleared up in the finale.

    Notably I was concerned that the show seemed to kind of endorse Johnny's methods as a sensei, by showing the confidence that people gained. Notably, Hawk coming back as Hawk seemed to say "Johnny made fun of this guy and he quit being a pussy and came back stronger". I still liked the show, but that's, you know, horseshit.

    Because of this, I love the fact that the last two episodes (and especially the finale) are just "no, Johnny was wrong, Johnny is filled with regret now". Those methods work great at what they were designed to do: create bullies. They turned Eli and Miguel into shitheads, and did much the same to a lesser degree to Aisha. Meanwhile, Daniel's lame, goofy nerd methods helped Robbie control his rage and channel his natural intelligence, charisma and work ethic into something positive.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
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    If your laptop doesn't look like this you aren't a true fan imo

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2019
    It's been almost a year now, but we're back on July April 24th!

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    April 24th, according to the trailer!

    I'm excited , I thought the original was really excellently judged and I'm looking forward to where it goes next.
    Johnny had a revelation about what a shit thing he was doing, but now his father figure is back to push him further.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    April 24th, according to the trailer!

    I'm excited , I thought the original was really excellently judged and I'm looking forward to where it goes next.
    Johnny had a revelation about what a shit thing he was doing, but now his father figure is back to push him further.

    My bad, corrected! The hype is real!

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited March 2019
    This show deserves so much more attention than it's gotten. It doesn't have dragons or zombies or aliens but it's got heart for days, and has real things to say about life and getting older without being...performative about it? I never feel like I'm watching A Message, but am just seeing the story of some dudes that happens to illustrate some important points.

    Also, a consistently killer soundtrack. While admitting that "downtempo cover of a famous pop song" is a hoary trailer cliche at this point, I really dig this version of "Cruel Summer."

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    This show deserves so much more attention than it's gotten. It doesn't have dragons or zombies or aliens but it's got heart for days, and has real things to say about life and getting older without being...performative about it? I never feel like I'm watchingg A Message, but am just seeing the story of some dudes that happens to illustrate some important points.

    Also, a consistently killer soundtrack. While admitting that "downtempo cover of a famous pop song" is a hoary trailer cliche at this point, I really dig this version of "Cruel Summer."

    I blame that on YouTube Red. Put this on Netflix, and it’s a cultural phenomenon. But even with the two episode free preview, getting people to “subscribe to YouTube” ain’t happening. YouTube is for free cat videos for most people, not something you pay money for.

    That and the fact that from what I can tell YTR has not one other shred of worthwhile content. I kept Premium for months just because fuck ads, but I can see how more budget-minded people aren’t gonna bite.

    I can’t think of anything offhand with a better ratio than Cobra Kai of “how good it is” to “how bad I expected it to be.” A stupid reboot of Karate Kid on YouTube’s shitty premium service? With Johnny as the lead? This had to be the absolute worst thing, right?

    And instead it was one of my favorite shows of the year.

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