i don't think anyone in the lore gets as much hate for being firm with people as Tyrande does
When is she firm with anyone but other elves who aren't pure enough for her?
you'll forgive me if i think that mister "there can never be peace with the alliance while loose cannons like jaina and genn are there, sylvanas has the best interests of the horde at heart and the only answer is conquering the alliance" doesn't necessarily have a viewpoint that i feel worth conversing with here
i can talk to you just fine, your view of the lore in world of warcraft is just so fundamentally incompatible with mine that to debate any aspect of it would involve repeating the same points ad infinitum with no convincing on either side
Even if that what Tyrande thinks, the Nightborn might think differently on their very closely related cousins. And seeing the group they have aligned themselves with burn a World Tree to the ground like that....
Also I bet the Pandas are just like "Man I wanna go back to our Turtle"
CaptainBeyondI've been out walkingRegistered Userregular
I think the last time I was really 'into' the lore was Warcraft 3, and then for awhile during Wrath. I've always been way more into the game world/aesthetic as a whole and doing my own lil' RPs in my head. I do know the general story and the major players, I just don't really care.
I will say that I've felt for awhile that the faction leaders are overused. When you see them all the time, when they're giving you small fry quests, it dilutes the awe that you're supposed to feel when they turn up. Muradin Bronzebeard handing out dungeon dailies in the lobby of your dinky garrison town hall is a classic example.
I did laugh out loud when Tyrande rescued her boyfriend and immediately teleported out to safety, leaving her people to burn. Quality leadership.
I think the last time I was really 'into' the lore was Warcraft 3, and then for awhile during Wrath. I've always been way more into the game world/aesthetic as a whole and doing my own lil' RPs in my head. I do know the general story and the major players, I just don't really care.
I will say that I've felt for awhile that the faction leaders are overused. When you see them all the time, when they're giving you small fry quests, it dilutes the awe that you're supposed to feel when they turn up. Muradin Bronzebeard handing out dungeon dailies in the lobby of your dinky garrison town hall is a classic example.
I did laugh out loud when Tyrande rescued her boyfriend and immediately teleported out to safety, leaving her people to burn. Quality leadership.
It does sort of highlight her rescue priorities, especially after Val'Sharah.
The order is apparently Ysera > Malfurion > Every single other Night Elf
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I think the last time I was really 'into' the lore was Warcraft 3, and then for awhile during Wrath. I've always been way more into the game world/aesthetic as a whole and doing my own lil' RPs in my head. I do know the general story and the major players, I just don't really care.
I will say that I've felt for awhile that the faction leaders are overused. When you see them all the time, when they're giving you small fry quests, it dilutes the awe that you're supposed to feel when they turn up. Muradin Bronzebeard handing out dungeon dailies in the lobby of your dinky garrison town hall is a classic example.
I did laugh out loud when Tyrande rescued her boyfriend and immediately teleported out to safety, leaving her people to burn. Quality leadership.
She also wasn't at Broken Shore either, nor did she go to Argus. Pretty much just disappeared after Val'Sharah. And even then, she only showed up cuz Malfurion got kidnapped.
She wasn't in Northrend either. Nor at the Dark Portal - either time. I think she shows up just at the end of Siege of Orgimmar.
What the heck is Tyrande actually doing all the time?
usually she's hanging out in the forgotten character bin with people like tess graymane or nathanos blightcaller (prior to his recent sudden relevance thrust, ofc)
blizz just can't remember to focus on all their characters when they're relevant
+1
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
The Warbringer cinematic shows the Horde setting Teldrassil ablaze by means of hurling flaming objects toward the tree from Darkshore.
The shortest path between Darkshore and Teldrassil takes roughly 34 seconds to fly at 420% speed, shoreline to shoreline.
Per this post, 280% speed is equivalent to 4500 feet per minute, which would make 420% speed equivalent to 6750 feet per minute.
That would put the absolute minimum in-game distance between Darkshore and Teldrassil at 3825 feet, which is 0.724 miles.
As of 2013, the world record for a catapult distance, using modern technology to launch a 8-10 lb pumpkin, was 3636 ft or 0.689 miles.
The same page indicates that the top ranges using medieval catapults were only ~1500 feet or 0.284 miles (and this Open University page agrees with that figure).
So the Horde's catapults are at least three times more effective than what we'd expect and better than the best catapults we can make with modern technology.
Azerite lubricants on the gears
Enc on
+1
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
i don't think anyone in the lore gets as much hate for being firm with people as Tyrande does
Tyrande is a problem for Mrs. Enc and I because she is simultaneously incompetant and petty in everything she does, while also being written to be haughty and over critical of everyone. Plus the whole Illidan love triangle. Add in the faux faithful thing and looking down on the other races of her people and she's kinda terrible. Her world quests text is extremely patronizing.
Basically she is every bad meme used to throw shade at actually powerful women in history.
Dumb question before I chase this too long. My highest level alliance character is 89 (horde is 100). I'd like to use my 110 token on one of the new alliance allied races. I need to level this alliance hunter to 110 and do a quest, correct? Wondering how long that's gonna take me and if I ought to instead use the 110 token on something else, unlock a new race and level that one the old fashioned way.
Edit: Also super annoyed I finally trashed all my raiding gear two expansions ago when I gave up on them making skins of them.
If you boost one of the new races you don't get their race specific armor, if that's something you care about.
I realized I'm like two months of grinding from it, rather than a week, so the whole Idea is tabled. Thanks for the info though, helped me figure that out.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
Alternatively, we could all stop trying to kill each other for a minute and worry about the fact that azeroth herself is dying and being besieged by the void lords rather than being concerned about what particular flavor of magic your favorite elves are addicted to.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
Alternatively, we could all stop trying to kill each other for a minute and worry about the fact that azeroth herself is dying and being besieged by the void lords rather than being concerned about what particular flavor of magic your favorite elves are addicted to.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
I think you're cherry picking her comments and glossing over the history between the two factions.
But even then, I don't think anyone is arguing over the minutia of it (barring some horde fan boys who can't deal with the horde being evil);
the problem is Blizzard is constantly half-arsing it. They can't do shades of grey (as evidenced by, well, a good decade of story lines and factional gameplay) but insist that their stories are just that, and they refuse to do black vs white properly (the horde keep getting off scot-free and the factional gameplay again).
It's the same boring, unbelievable horseshit every single time.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
Alternatively, we could all stop trying to kill each other for a minute and worry about the fact that azeroth herself is dying and being besieged by the void lords rather than being concerned about what particular flavor of magic your favorite elves are addicted to.
Real question: Have the Void Lords even been directly referened in game yet? We know of them because of Chronicles but is there any reason to believe anyone on Azeroth really knows there’s anything concrete behind the Old Gods?
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Like BFA should end with a stalemate that ends with Azeroth saved an an ambiguous ending but even greater world upheval, they should do a 100 year time skip, and start WoW2 with all but a few very very old characters gone and new factions based upon how things went over that time.
At this point they have exhausted most of the story hooks and locations and after this expansion, with the last holdhouts of Najatar and Lady Ashara being confronted, there really isn't anywhere we haven't been to, any named characters that haven't been explored, and thus messed up.
A big reset would probably be good for the brand in the longer term.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
I think you're cherry picking her comments and glossing over the history between the two factions.
But even then, I don't think anyone is arguing over the minutia of it (barring some horde fan boys who can't deal with the horde being evil);
the problem is Blizzard is constantly half-arsing it. They can't do shades of grey (as evidenced by, well, a good decade of story lines and factional gameplay) but insist that their stories are just that, and they refuse to do black vs white properly (the horde keep getting off scot-free and the factional gameplay again).
It's the same boring, unbelievable horseshit every single time.
Direct references to unambiguous statements of beliefs = cherry picking okay I guess.
Going true black vs white seems like a bad call. Fantasy fiction as a rule has serious problems with race with its tendency to portray fantasy races coded to resemble actual cultures as inherently evil. Leaning into presenting the faction that’s a bunch of non-white non-European coded cultures as Fully Evil and in need of violent subjugation by the lilly white generic European fantasy faction seems like a super super bad idea in todays political environment.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
Alternatively, we could all stop trying to kill each other for a minute and worry about the fact that azeroth herself is dying and being besieged by the void lords rather than being concerned about what particular flavor of magic your favorite elves are addicted to.
Real question: Have the Void Lords even been directly referened in game yet? We know of them because of Chronicles but is there any reason to believe anyone on Azeroth really knows there’s anything concrete behind the Old Gods?
Void Lords were mentioned in TBC I believe (Netherstorm questing with the Consortium).
I think the Titanic Watchers at least are aware of the link (at least, based on outside media).
Everyone start packing up your stuff. It's time for World of Starcraft.
On a more or less serious note depending on where you stand, it must be absolutely distressing to be a Creative on a project with a long-established fandom these days. The perception of ownership and the rage at the lack of collaboration and communication is just absurd to me, and it's so focused by the intarwebs. But I guess people have been writing angry nerd letters to the Tolkien Estate for decades, so it is what it is.
Like BFA should end with a stalemate that ends with Azeroth saved an an ambiguous ending but even greater world upheval, they should do a 100 year time skip, and start WoW2 with all but a few very very old characters gone and new factions based upon how things went over that time.
At this point they have exhausted most of the story hooks and locations and after this expansion, with the last holdhouts of Najatar and Lady Ashara being confronted, there really isn't anywhere we haven't been to, any named characters that haven't been explored, and thus messed up.
A big reset would probably be good for the brand in the longer term.
I would prefer that it ended with the squabbles between the Alliance and the Horde tying up both faction's resources and allowing the old gods to get a real foothold on modern azeroth. The next expansion, as an allegory for inaction against global warming, will be the horde/alliance/players fighting a losing battle against the newly established threat that ultimately results in the death of azeroth, it's rebirth as a void lord, and the closure of WoW 1.
The problem with any idea that involves ending WoW and starting WoW2 is they will never, ever do that. It just doesn’t make sense from a business perspective. They are gonna squeeze blood from this stone until they literally cannot.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
I think you're cherry picking her comments and glossing over the history between the two factions.
But even then, I don't think anyone is arguing over the minutia of it (barring some horde fan boys who can't deal with the horde being evil);
the problem is Blizzard is constantly half-arsing it. They can't do shades of grey (as evidenced by, well, a good decade of story lines and factional gameplay) but insist that their stories are just that, and they refuse to do black vs white properly (the horde keep getting off scot-free and the factional gameplay again).
It's the same boring, unbelievable horseshit every single time.
Direct references to unambiguous statements of beliefs = cherry picking okay I guess.
Going true black vs white seems like a bad call. Fantasy fiction as a rule has serious problems with race with its tendency to portray fantasy races coded to resemble actual cultures as inherently evil. Leaning into presenting the faction that’s a bunch of non-white non-European coded cultures as Fully Evil and in need of violent subjugation by the lilly white generic European fantasy faction seems like a super super bad idea in todays political environment.
A bad idea at any time but especially now.
haaaaaaaaaaa I hadn't even thought about this but yeah wow that's a BAD look.
BfA to me just feels like it was written by committee.
At least when Metzen was at the head, there was a pretty clear direction and vision, even if people didn't always agree with it.
But now, it doesn't feel like that. It feels like we have multiple ideas all happening at once, and even from a creative perspective it feels like there's this unholy tension where everyone is trying to make their concept the dominant idea.
We have a serious world threat. Azeroth (the planet) is dying. It got stabbed right in the anus by a giant space sword. Simultaneous to that, we have this escalating faction war that none of us can really figure out why it's happening, other than because Blizzard says it's happening. But their justifications are weak and don't make much sense. And on top of all of that, we have this arms race to collect magic earth rocks that have this genericly vague power to them. What the fuck is Azerite anyway? They have not adequately explained that. At all. There's also a thing going on with the old gods, with Azshara, with the Loa, and all these other problems. There's just way too much going on here and a very clear lack of focus and direction.
WoW 2 is never happening. There's absolutely no reason, storywise, gameplaywise, or developmentwise to do it.
Oh, I agree. I would just like them to be able to start over from a story perspective, and I don't think going back in time as a reset button is a good way of accomplishing that.
I don't even think their writing staff is necessarily bad, I think their problem is more of the management of that writing staff, and the overall structure of their writing department. It would be nice if they could figure out how to sort that bit out, and then reboot the story somehow and start fresh.
Hey dudes, I have a question. My girlfriend and I are playing through the Argus campaign together since coming back, but I'm a little bit ahead of her. Can I still group with her and help her out with quests, or does the phasing make that impossible?
Like BFA should end with a stalemate that ends with Azeroth saved an an ambiguous ending but even greater world upheval, they should do a 100 year time skip, and start WoW2 with all but a few very very old characters gone and new factions based upon how things went over that time.
At this point they have exhausted most of the story hooks and locations and after this expansion, with the last holdhouts of Najatar and Lady Ashara being confronted, there really isn't anywhere we haven't been to, any named characters that haven't been explored, and thus messed up.
A big reset would probably be good for the brand in the longer term.
Now it's not that I disagree with you. But if/when wow 2 happens I will be sad to loose my mounts.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
Given the turn of events in darnassus it seems like tyrande showed extremely good judgment about the nightbborne and the risk they presented. When one of their first steps after being rescued from the legion is to participate in a genocidal attack on their relatives I don't see how tyrande was wrong about the way she was treating them.
Hey dudes, I have a question. My girlfriend and I are playing through the Argus campaign together since coming back, but I'm a little bit ahead of her. Can I still group with her and help her out with quests, or does the phasing make that impossible?
If phasing is in place you won't be able to help.
Which quests/maps change, I can't remember, you're just going to have to wing it.
Hey dudes, I have a question. My girlfriend and I are playing through the Argus campaign together since coming back, but I'm a little bit ahead of her. Can I still group with her and help her out with quests, or does the phasing make that impossible?
You can still do much questing together. There is significant phasing in Argus, but it's very localized to the individual quest sub-zones and I think you'll be able to do most stuff together. There's a few big scripted fights that you won't be able to participate in, but most other stuff should be fine. It's not like the days of Wrath where phasing meant you couldn't even be in in the same zone instance.
IIRC (and I may be wrong).the only major phasing on Argus involves the initial landing/discovery of the Broken in Korkuun and the beginning on Mac’aree.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
Given the turn of events in darnassus it seems like tyrande showed extremely good judgment about the nightbborne and the risk they presented. When one of their first steps after being rescued from the legion is to participate in a genocidal attack on their relatives I don't see how tyrande was wrong about the way she was treating them.
I know you don’t. You view things in terms of intrinsic characteristics.
Let me know when you book your flight to Europe to kill all the French and Germans. I’ll be curious to see how that shakes out.
BfA to me just feels like it was written by committee.
At least when Metzen was at the head, there was a pretty clear direction and vision, even if people didn't always agree with it.
But now, it doesn't feel like that. It feels like we have multiple ideas all happening at once, and even from a creative perspective it feels like there's this unholy tension where everyone is trying to make their concept the dominant idea.
We have a serious world threat. Azeroth (the planet) is dying. It got stabbed right in the anus by a giant space sword. Simultaneous to that, we have this escalating faction war that none of us can really figure out why it's happening, other than because Blizzard says it's happening. But their justifications are weak and don't make much sense. And on top of all of that, we have this arms race to collect magic earth rocks that have this genericly vague power to them. What the fuck is Azerite anyway? They have not adequately explained that. At all. There's also a thing going on with the old gods, with Azshara, with the Loa, and all these other problems. There's just way too much going on here and a very clear lack of focus and direction.
Half of the things that you say make no sense are perfectly intelligible and the other half are story beats you shouldn't have answers for yet.
BfA to me just feels like it was written by committee.
At least when Metzen was at the head, there was a pretty clear direction and vision, even if people didn't always agree with it.
But now, it doesn't feel like that. It feels like we have multiple ideas all happening at once, and even from a creative perspective it feels like there's this unholy tension where everyone is trying to make their concept the dominant idea.
We have a serious world threat. Azeroth (the planet) is dying. It got stabbed right in the anus by a giant space sword. Simultaneous to that, we have this escalating faction war that none of us can really figure out why it's happening, other than because Blizzard says it's happening. But their justifications are weak and don't make much sense. And on top of all of that, we have this arms race to collect magic earth rocks that have this genericly vague power to them. What the fuck is Azerite anyway? They have not adequately explained that. At all. There's also a thing going on with the old gods, with Azshara, with the Loa, and all these other problems. There's just way too much going on here and a very clear lack of focus and direction.
Half of the things that you say make no sense are perfectly intelligible and the other half are story beats you shouldn't have answers for yet.
Funny Reddit meme made me think, what do you think the Nightborn think about all this?
The Highmountain Tauren don't know much about elves, so they might not care, but the Nightborn? This has to look real bad
Tyrande made it clear she thinks the nightborne are little better than demons.
nah
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
Given the turn of events in darnassus it seems like tyrande showed extremely good judgment about the nightbborne and the risk they presented. When one of their first steps after being rescued from the legion is to participate in a genocidal attack on their relatives I don't see how tyrande was wrong about the way she was treating them.
I know you don’t. You view things in terms of intrinsic characteristics.
Let me know when you book your flight to Europe to kill all the French and Germans. I’ll be curious to see how that shakes out.
Jesus, y'all, can we chill just a little bit with the personal attacks?
Posts
Talking at me is fine though?
Maybe chill out, dude.
Also I bet the Pandas are just like "Man I wanna go back to our Turtle"
I will say that I've felt for awhile that the faction leaders are overused. When you see them all the time, when they're giving you small fry quests, it dilutes the awe that you're supposed to feel when they turn up. Muradin Bronzebeard handing out dungeon dailies in the lobby of your dinky garrison town hall is a classic example.
I did laugh out loud when Tyrande rescued her boyfriend and immediately teleported out to safety, leaving her people to burn. Quality leadership.
It does sort of highlight her rescue priorities, especially after Val'Sharah.
The order is apparently Ysera > Malfurion > Every single other Night Elf
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
She also wasn't at Broken Shore either, nor did she go to Argus. Pretty much just disappeared after Val'Sharah. And even then, she only showed up cuz Malfurion got kidnapped.
She wasn't in Northrend either. Nor at the Dark Portal - either time. I think she shows up just at the end of Siege of Orgimmar.
What the heck is Tyrande actually doing all the time?
blizz just can't remember to focus on all their characters when they're relevant
Azerite lubricants on the gears
Tyrande is a problem for Mrs. Enc and I because she is simultaneously incompetant and petty in everything she does, while also being written to be haughty and over critical of everyone. Plus the whole Illidan love triangle. Add in the faux faithful thing and looking down on the other races of her people and she's kinda terrible. Her world quests text is extremely patronizing.
Basically she is every bad meme used to throw shade at actually powerful women in history.
I realized I'm like two months of grinding from it, rather than a week, so the whole Idea is tabled. Thanks for the info though, helped me figure that out.
You really weren't paying attention during Insurrection. Tyrande explicitly states she's there to defeat Elisande and doesn't give a rat's ass whether the Nightborne live or die. She pointedly calls it "the city of my birth" and refuses to acknowledge the modern day society inhabiting it for a reason. This is reinforced in Alliance side world quests: When Tyrande arms rebellious citizens in Suramar, her stated reasoning is that she wants to use the citizens of Suramar as expendable cannon fodder to soak up attacks that might harm her own troops. When Thalyssra elects to let the Nightwell die, she still treats the Nightborne as dangerous criminals/addicts at best. She does not value Nightborne life, full stop, and she is not shy about saying as much.
Tyrande's judgement is colored by the War of the Ancients. She 100% cannot see past it, even when something as blindingly obvious as how Thalyssra's role parallels her own is standing right in front of her (idealistic rebel fighting to overthrow an evil Legion aligned Queen gee when has this happened before). A better question would be why would the Nightborne want to align with someone who dehumanized them every single step of the way when the other side was nothing but empathetic and supportive?
To be clear, this is a good thing. This is the kind of characterization the Alliance needs to actually be worthwhile as a story element. Tyrande WAS an ethnocentric violent bigot in Warcraft 3 and having her actually act like it again instead of the long time WoW default of Night Elves being sorta Vaguely Generically Good Elves is a GOOD THING.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Alternatively, we could all stop trying to kill each other for a minute and worry about the fact that azeroth herself is dying and being besieged by the void lords rather than being concerned about what particular flavor of magic your favorite elves are addicted to.
nah
I think you're cherry picking her comments and glossing over the history between the two factions.
But even then, I don't think anyone is arguing over the minutia of it (barring some horde fan boys who can't deal with the horde being evil);
the problem is Blizzard is constantly half-arsing it. They can't do shades of grey (as evidenced by, well, a good decade of story lines and factional gameplay) but insist that their stories are just that, and they refuse to do black vs white properly (the horde keep getting off scot-free and the factional gameplay again).
It's the same boring, unbelievable horseshit every single time.
Real question: Have the Void Lords even been directly referened in game yet? We know of them because of Chronicles but is there any reason to believe anyone on Azeroth really knows there’s anything concrete behind the Old Gods?
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
At this point they have exhausted most of the story hooks and locations and after this expansion, with the last holdhouts of Najatar and Lady Ashara being confronted, there really isn't anywhere we haven't been to, any named characters that haven't been explored, and thus messed up.
A big reset would probably be good for the brand in the longer term.
Direct references to unambiguous statements of beliefs = cherry picking okay I guess.
Going true black vs white seems like a bad call. Fantasy fiction as a rule has serious problems with race with its tendency to portray fantasy races coded to resemble actual cultures as inherently evil. Leaning into presenting the faction that’s a bunch of non-white non-European coded cultures as Fully Evil and in need of violent subjugation by the lilly white generic European fantasy faction seems like a super super bad idea in todays political environment.
A bad idea at any time but especially now.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/93x88i/chris_metzen_on_twitter_my_counsel_is_that/
Void Lords were mentioned in TBC I believe (Netherstorm questing with the Consortium).
I think the Titanic Watchers at least are aware of the link (at least, based on outside media).
On a more or less serious note depending on where you stand, it must be absolutely distressing to be a Creative on a project with a long-established fandom these days. The perception of ownership and the rage at the lack of collaboration and communication is just absurd to me, and it's so focused by the intarwebs. But I guess people have been writing angry nerd letters to the Tolkien Estate for decades, so it is what it is.
I would prefer that it ended with the squabbles between the Alliance and the Horde tying up both faction's resources and allowing the old gods to get a real foothold on modern azeroth. The next expansion, as an allegory for inaction against global warming, will be the horde/alliance/players fighting a losing battle against the newly established threat that ultimately results in the death of azeroth, it's rebirth as a void lord, and the closure of WoW 1.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
haaaaaaaaaaa I hadn't even thought about this but yeah wow that's a BAD look.
At least when Metzen was at the head, there was a pretty clear direction and vision, even if people didn't always agree with it.
But now, it doesn't feel like that. It feels like we have multiple ideas all happening at once, and even from a creative perspective it feels like there's this unholy tension where everyone is trying to make their concept the dominant idea.
We have a serious world threat. Azeroth (the planet) is dying. It got stabbed right in the anus by a giant space sword. Simultaneous to that, we have this escalating faction war that none of us can really figure out why it's happening, other than because Blizzard says it's happening. But their justifications are weak and don't make much sense. And on top of all of that, we have this arms race to collect magic earth rocks that have this genericly vague power to them. What the fuck is Azerite anyway? They have not adequately explained that. At all. There's also a thing going on with the old gods, with Azshara, with the Loa, and all these other problems. There's just way too much going on here and a very clear lack of focus and direction.
Oh, I agree. I would just like them to be able to start over from a story perspective, and I don't think going back in time as a reset button is a good way of accomplishing that.
I don't even think their writing staff is necessarily bad, I think their problem is more of the management of that writing staff, and the overall structure of their writing department. It would be nice if they could figure out how to sort that bit out, and then reboot the story somehow and start fresh.
Now it's not that I disagree with you. But if/when wow 2 happens I will be sad to loose my mounts.
Given the turn of events in darnassus it seems like tyrande showed extremely good judgment about the nightbborne and the risk they presented. When one of their first steps after being rescued from the legion is to participate in a genocidal attack on their relatives I don't see how tyrande was wrong about the way she was treating them.
If phasing is in place you won't be able to help.
Which quests/maps change, I can't remember, you're just going to have to wing it.
You can still do much questing together. There is significant phasing in Argus, but it's very localized to the individual quest sub-zones and I think you'll be able to do most stuff together. There's a few big scripted fights that you won't be able to participate in, but most other stuff should be fine. It's not like the days of Wrath where phasing meant you couldn't even be in in the same zone instance.
I know you don’t. You view things in terms of intrinsic characteristics.
Let me know when you book your flight to Europe to kill all the French and Germans. I’ll be curious to see how that shakes out.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Kind of waters it down.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Half of the things that you say make no sense are perfectly intelligible and the other half are story beats you shouldn't have answers for yet.
No. Doing bad things retroactively justifies bad things in the past.
Hang on Taran Zhu is calling my cell phone he seems upset.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Which ones are intelligible?
Jesus, y'all, can we chill just a little bit with the personal attacks?