It's not whataboutism...it's an action that directly leads to Sylvanas' actions.
Ignoring it completely and pretending that the attempted assassination of a warchief was...What a minor thing?
That's pretty ridiculous.
I can't remember a single point where Sylvanas has even mentioned it (edit, outside of the actual Stormheim zone that is). The closest you get is a single line from A Good War about Genn having Anduin's ear. And ultimately it's not different than any other faction conflict across WoW. All the relevance put on it beyond just another example of a conflict zone between Alliance and Horde is put on by the players, and none of it makes sense.
- Genn broke a truce? Not according to any lore, and explicitly contradicted in A Good War.
- Genn wasn't punished? Only mentioned in passing thought by Saurfang, and as a overall lore item you can compare it to Sylvanas going against Garrosh in Gilnaes. At least Genn got a stern talking to and showed a lesson learned, Sylvanas got to be Warchief.
- Genn attacking the Horde when there is a bigger threat? Like the Sha? Like Deathwing? I'd argue you could even fit Garrosh into this as well. (To be clear, I'm referring to the fact that one side attacking another while a bigger threat looms has never been as big of a deal as Stormheim is held up by players, despite being something that has happened every expansion with aggression on both sides)
I'd actually agree that maybe a full blown fight between a Alliance leader and the Horde warchief should have more significance but it just doesn't. The writers wanted to tell a conflict story and they wanted to use the Genn/Sylvanas dynamic to do it, that's all it is.
Edit:
I did forget, Sylvanas does mention Genn in Before the Storm, but from what I remember it's basically just frustration that he ruined her plans.
Man what? It's given as the primary reason Sylvanas has that Anduin can't be trusted for peace:
Her eyebrows lowered. “With Genn Greymane in his ear? We will see.”
That was a concern, Saurfang had to concede. In the thick of the fighting against the Burning Legion, Greymane had launched a mission to kill Sylvanas. It had gotten some of Stormwind’s few remaining airships destroyed.
There were whispers that Greymane had ordered the attack without Anduin’s permission, but as far as Saurfang knew, Greymane had not been punished. The implications of that were troubling, and every possible explanation led to same conclusion: the old worgen would always drive the Alliance toward war against the Horde.
As for the Sha and Deathwing, neither were treated as a major issue until much later in the storyline. Deathwing caused damage across the globe (and to Stormwind), but up until the Twilight Highlands it was treated a side issue, and the Sha were never treated as a "we must unite to destroy this" level threat. The first time we see the Horde and Alliance treat it as such, it's when Garrosh is trying to use it as a weapon near the end.
The closest analogue I can think was the Broken Front in Icecrown where a Horde squad ambushed an Alliance force from behind as they were engaged with the Scourge.
(Side note: in the Shattering novel Garrosh goes apeshit on the commander who had authorized that attack).
how are Baine and Lothemar ok with any of this.
Sylvanas is straight up a bond villain.
sidenote: Praise be to Jaina!
Naaaaah
Baine does have reservations, seemingly just about leaving Saurfang behind (which Saurfang wanted anyway) but she just sprang a trap to take out a large part of the alliance army. When the initial blight goes off there's some friendly fire but almost everyone is already out. She specifically has the rest of the army clear out and blocks off the escape route behind them until they get to safety. And the blight isn't really any less honorable of a weapon that stealthy cat druids.
how are Baine and Lothemar ok with any of this.
Sylvanas is straight up a bond villain.
sidenote: Praise be to Jaina!
Naaaaah
Baine does have reservations, seemingly just about leaving Saurfang behind (which Saurfang wanted anyway) but she just sprang a trap to take out a large part of the alliance army. When the initial blight goes off there's some friendly fire but almost everyone is already out. She specifically has the rest of the army clear out and blocks off the escape route behind them until they get to safety. And the blight isn't really any less honorable of a weapon that stealthy cat druids.
except, you know, that it raises the freshly deceased as mindless undead.
Something all races are incredibly (barring some forsaken) not ok with.
how are Baine and Lothemar ok with any of this.
Sylvanas is straight up a bond villain.
sidenote: Praise be to Jaina!
Naaaaah
Baine does have reservations, seemingly just about leaving Saurfang behind (which Saurfang wanted anyway) but she just sprang a trap to take out a large part of the alliance army. When the initial blight goes off there's some friendly fire but almost everyone is already out. She specifically has the rest of the army clear out and blocks off the escape route behind them until they get to safety. And the blight isn't really any less honorable of a weapon that stealthy cat druids.
except, you know, that it raises the freshly deceased as mindless undead.
Something all races are incredibly (barring some forsaken) not ok with.
in particular the Tauren and Trolls should be really really really not okay with it
who cares about consistent writing though, WOW NEEDS VILLAINS.
Really I feel the story they are trying to tell here should have happened between Pandaria and Legion as the stuff Garrosh was building up it's as if someone just turned off the faucet and went on forgetting to clean up.
Well, you know, they didn't have any story ready when they made the part between Pandaria and Legion, so we got WoD instead.
I don't think they have a story for wow just self contained arcs
The whole exp a year is biting them in the ass
It's 2 years between each expansion, but yeah I agree they'd probably write better stories if they had more time.
I hope the next time a new class is considered, we get a bunch of new specs instead. A bunch of ranged would be nice. And a few healers, since I play healers.
It's not like it's hard to fit them into class lore. Just off the top of my head....
Caster DK (could retool Unholy)
Caster dps Paladin
Healer Warrior with bandages and shouts of encouragement, bow warrior
Sniper rogue. Or alchemical healer rogue
Glaive throwing DH
time healer mage
throwing weapon or caster dps monk
I want Nathanos' mount. Speaking of him and the scenario...
...what did Sylvanas send him out to do? I'm guessing it was just 'take my bow and get the zepplin ready for departure' but that moment between him and her seemed to imply more then that. Like I actually thought she was sending him out to kill Baine for a moment.
I want Nathanos' mount. Speaking of him and the scenario...
...what did Sylvanas send him out to do? I'm guessing it was just 'take my bow and get the zepplin ready for departure' but that moment between him and her seemed to imply more then that. Like I actually thought she was sending him out to kill Baine for a moment.
It was a bit poorly conveyed but I think:
It was just "Abandon the city to the plague" I think. So I did the horde version...man that was some spic stuff. The sortie from the keep, the azerite machines arrival AND giving players the choice to use the bioweapon. (Which almost everyone in the raid did, myself included)
There was a lot packed into that. Sylvanas covering our escape and remaining behind as bait was cool too.
They really wrote themselves into a corner with this one didn't they
Yeah uh
I am not cool with Sylvanas raising an army of the dead after killing both sides with deadly blight and then having her send Green Dad to his (probably not) death
This is pure speculation, but I wonder if the shenanigan's with Helya altered her personality a bit. After all, she made a bargain with her, and while Sylvanas didn't get much out of it (thanks to Genn), I could see Helya doing something with the Banshee Queen, even if we killed her for Odyn.
When did Jaina become the most powerful Mage in the world...?
Well think about it.
How many people are around that have that sort of Kirin Tor seniority.
Although I wouldn't say she's the most powerful; Khadgar probably has that title.
When did Jaina become the most powerful Mage in the world...?
Well think about it.
How many people are around that have that sort of Kirin Tor seniority.
Although I wouldn't say she's the most powerful; Khadgar probably has that title.
I think she's supposed to canonically be the most powerful mortal sorceress. Whether or not that means most powerful magic using mortal period is up in the air. Khadgar has Atiesh, but Jaina has a staff imbued with Lei Shen's power, which should be pretty good too.
I liked seeing Mekkatorque charging into battle in his awesome mech suit. I'm going to point out that Gallywix was not there with us because he sucks.
It felt like just as crushing a defeat as it looked, pushing through obscene casualties at every stage. Though I did really like how anduin mirrored Arthas' return in the closing cinematic.
And now I know what happened to Saurfang. Captured by the alliance.
When did Jaina become the most powerful Mage in the world...?
Well think about it.
How many people are around that have that sort of Kirin Tor seniority.
Although I wouldn't say she's the most powerful; Khadgar probably has that title.
I think she's supposed to canonically be the most powerful mortal sorceress. Whether or not that means most powerful magic using mortal period is up in the air. Khadgar has Atiesh, but Jaina has a staff imbued with Lei Shen's power, which should be pretty good too.
I liked seeing Mekkatorque charging into battle in his awesome mech suit. I'm going to point out that Gallywix was not there with us because he sucks.
What would he do if he were there, corner the markets them to death?
Sylvanas is just a cartoon villain at this point and its sad.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
It's weird because I don't like Sylvanas, at all, and don't like the direction she's taking the Horde, but also I really hate Jaina and want to kill her, so I'm torn.
If Jaina goes bad Blizzard will do the ironic thing and have Alliance and Horde team up to kill her like with her dad.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
It's weird because I don't like Sylvanas, at all, and don't like the direction she's taking the Horde, but also I really hate Jaina and want to kill her, so I'm torn.
I've never understood the Jaina hate.
She was the Horde's staunchest supporter. She sacrificed friendships and the life of her father in an attempt to preserve the peace.
Then Garrosh nukes Theramore. And then Aethas abuses his position within the Kirin Tor and her trust to portal around another nuke.
And then she snaps.
Blizzard is horrific at storytelling, but I think they did a good job with Jaina. Unless she turns out to be a dreadlord.
It's weird because I don't like Sylvanas, at all, and don't like the direction she's taking the Horde, but also I really hate Jaina and want to kill her, so I'm torn.
I've never understood the Jaina hate.
She was the Horde's staunchest supporter. She sacrificed friendships and the life of her father in an attempt to preserve the peace.
Then Garrosh nukes Theramore. And then Aethas abuses his position within the Kirin Tor and her trust to portal around another nuke.
And then she snaps.
Blizzard is horrific at storytelling, but I think they did a good job with Jaina. Unless she turns out to be a dreadlord.
I think part of the hate comes from what happens in Dalaran at the start of Legion where because of the crisis the mage council there agrees to let the Horde back in and Jaina gives everyone the finger and quits both the council and the city. A comic later showed that she did fight demons alone but game-wise she was just gone. Genn gets a lot of crap for prioritizing revenge on Sylvanas instead of the demons but at least we actually saw him at the Broken Isles doing something. Jaina instead just left with no sign she was doing anything other then pouting somewhere alone.
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Because Jaina has been written to violently hate all Horde PCs, most of whom did not support the things that caused her to turn against the Horde in the first place. We're her enemies for things we didn't do and didn't get a choice to stand against because Blizzard just writes the entire Horde to be villains whenever it's convenient, and then even when they let the PCs go against the dumb Horde shit (e.g SoO) we're still complicit. Zero player agency at all. It's not that Jaina herself is written badly so much as everything that caused her to hate the Horde is GAAAAAAARBAGE and hey now we get to do it all over again, oh boy.
She's a stand-in for the Blizzard writers because they don't have in game characters, basically.
So, for someone who hasn't played since WotLK, is there a good website that details the events since (and including, I guess, since my memory is bad)? I'm not looking for super detailed stories, but a brief overview of the important events would be helpful for catching up as I have no idea wtf is going on.
Posts
or MoP.
Man what? It's given as the primary reason Sylvanas has that Anduin can't be trusted for peace:
As for the Sha and Deathwing, neither were treated as a major issue until much later in the storyline. Deathwing caused damage across the globe (and to Stormwind), but up until the Twilight Highlands it was treated a side issue, and the Sha were never treated as a "we must unite to destroy this" level threat. The first time we see the Horde and Alliance treat it as such, it's when Garrosh is trying to use it as a weapon near the end.
The closest analogue I can think was the Broken Front in Icecrown where a Horde squad ambushed an Alliance force from behind as they were engaged with the Scourge.
(Side note: in the Shattering novel Garrosh goes apeshit on the commander who had authorized that attack).
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
No. You can skip straight to pandaria if you want.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Sylvanas also probably just destroyed the large bulk of the alliance army while getting most of hers out so I think we won.
how are Baine and Lothemar ok with any of this.
Sylvanas is straight up a bond villain.
sidenote: Praise be to Jaina!
Naaaaah
except, you know, that it raises the freshly deceased as mindless undead.
Something all races are incredibly (barring some forsaken) not ok with.
You know the one
in particular the Tauren and Trolls should be really really really not okay with it
who cares about consistent writing though, WOW NEEDS VILLAINS.
It's 2 years between each expansion, but yeah I agree they'd probably write better stories if they had more time.
you can do cata or pandas for 80-90.
It's not like it's hard to fit them into class lore. Just off the top of my head....
Caster DK (could retool Unholy)
Caster dps Paladin
Healer Warrior with bandages and shouts of encouragement, bow warrior
Sniper rogue. Or alchemical healer rogue
Glaive throwing DH
time healer mage
throwing weapon or caster dps monk
I want Nathanos' mount. Speaking of him and the scenario...
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
It was a bit poorly conveyed but I think:
There was a lot packed into that. Sylvanas covering our escape and remaining behind as bait was cool too.
But still Sylvanas is the WORST
Yeah uh
WoW
Dear Satan.....
Anduin: Thank the Light!
Also, Sylvanas blasting off again! While twirling her moustache
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Well think about it.
How many people are around that have that sort of Kirin Tor seniority.
Although I wouldn't say she's the most powerful; Khadgar probably has that title.
I think she's supposed to canonically be the most powerful mortal sorceress. Whether or not that means most powerful magic using mortal period is up in the air. Khadgar has Atiesh, but Jaina has a staff imbued with Lei Shen's power, which should be pretty good too.
I liked seeing Mekkatorque charging into battle in his awesome mech suit. I'm going to point out that Gallywix was not there with us because he sucks.
And now I know what happened to Saurfang. Captured by the alliance.
What would he do if he were there, corner the markets them to death?
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I've never understood the Jaina hate.
She was the Horde's staunchest supporter. She sacrificed friendships and the life of her father in an attempt to preserve the peace.
Then Garrosh nukes Theramore. And then Aethas abuses his position within the Kirin Tor and her trust to portal around another nuke.
And then she snaps.
Blizzard is horrific at storytelling, but I think they did a good job with Jaina. Unless she turns out to be a dreadlord.
I think part of the hate comes from what happens in Dalaran at the start of Legion where because of the crisis the mage council there agrees to let the Horde back in and Jaina gives everyone the finger and quits both the council and the city. A comic later showed that she did fight demons alone but game-wise she was just gone. Genn gets a lot of crap for prioritizing revenge on Sylvanas instead of the demons but at least we actually saw him at the Broken Isles doing something. Jaina instead just left with no sign she was doing anything other then pouting somewhere alone.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
She's a stand-in for the Blizzard writers because they don't have in game characters, basically.
She had kind of calmed down, but this warranted the impisoment and murder of all blood elves in Dalaran.
WoW
Dear Satan.....