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Help me resolve a potentially heated problem with my Landlord - Calmly (UK Tenant)
The Brayster
UKRegistered User regular
UKRegistered User regular
Hello guys, I need a voice that isn't coming from inside my own head to help me make sense of the route I need to take over the coming weeks.
I have been renting a flat for just over two years now from a private landlord. For the most part, everything has been fine. Some small issues here or there, but nothing that couldn't eventually be sorted out. My landlord has mostly been hands off, just arranging to come round every few months for barely 5 minutes to have a quick peak to make sure we haven't trashed the place.
We even reached an agreement whereby I could keep Cats. The Tenancy Agreement I signed states that pets are not typically allowed but consideration will be made fairly upon a tenants request. As such, I invited the landlord around for a chat, she seemed agreeable on the matter as she said that I have always kept the place in impeccable condition and therefore could be trusted to continue to maintain the place with Cats in the mix. I have a letter, signed by the landlord, confirming this, which I needed to provide to the local shelter before we could adopt any of them, which I have kept among their veterinary records.
This is all well and good, but problems have arisen in the last couple of months. The landlord turned up a couple of months ago and informed us that she was selling the flat, and so we would need to be looking to move out in roughly July, which basically acted as a 'soft' notice. Which, fair enough, this happens, we have money put aside for a deposit and moving costs so we can deal with it, plus this was a lot more notice than we are entitled to, so we can be grateful for that at least. I also call it a 'soft' notice as we have not yet been issued a formal written notice, the reasoning being that this type of flat may quite likely be sold to an Investor rather than someone looking for a place to live, and if this is the case they will likely want to keep tenants in place, meaning we wouldn't have to move. The compromise for this was that my partner and I would strip down the flat to a more bare-bones level so the estate agent could bring a photographer in to take pictures, and, given notice, they could bring in potential buyers for viewings. Living in a bare-bones flat for the same (fairly high for the area) rent and giving up days off to cleaning and showing people around the one private place I have in the world isn't what I'd call convenient BUT given that the landlord and estate agent could potentially be throwing me a bone here, I have simply resigned myself to it, as people find themselves in much shittier positions every day, I need to be grateful.
This is where the trouble has really started. I feel like my landlord has gotten more and more bold with their 'requests'. I say 'requests' as they have stopped asking me things and more just telling me that THIS IS HOW THIS WILL GO. When the estate agent needed to take pictures, naturally I had to de-clutter the place and very importantly, keep the cats out of the picture, which I achieved on the day by putting them in their carriers. The whole process only took like 10 minutes, so this wasn't an issue for them, and I understand that 'evidence' of residing pets may devalue a property in buyers eyes. My landlord occasionally states that the cats need 'removed' when photos/viewings take place, but I'm not sure what she expects here. I don't drive, and don't have immediate family nearby, and I can't really afford or arrange for them to be put in a cattery every time someone wants to come take a look. I'm certainly not just getting rid of them. I expect this will come up later.
Everything went quiet for a while until a couple of days ago, when I started getting texts from the estate agent asking if certain times/days would be suitable for viewings. I work for a 24-hour business, so my working hours can be any time of the day. This can make things awkward, so I try my best to offer any reasonable alternatives I can. They did at one point suggest that I gave them a spare key and bring in viewers when I'm not around, which I turned down immediately because:
1) The Tenancy Agreement forbids me from producing any additional keys beyond the two my partner and I were provided and
2) ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT! We have animals! We have (semi) valuable possessions! We have private and/or sensitive items/data! Why on earth would I agree to let strangers have access to these things without my direct oversight? Would anyone?
Anyway, they backed down from this pretty quickly and returned to negotiating times. Then, I receive this text today:
This is the latest in a build up of texts like it. My landlord started out by asking 'is this okay?' and 'can we arrange?' but has recently escalated to 'This is happening, be there'. I'm also really annoyed that they arranged a viewing without even asking. How do they know that date/time is okay? It's not, because I'm working and my partner is currently out of the country. What am I supposed to do with the cats? If I'm not there, are you just going to let yourself in?
As far as I'm aware, as long as I am paying my full rent and otherwise keeping up my end of the Tenancy Agreement, I have a right to complete privacy. The only people I HAVE to let in to my home are Police Officers (with a warrant) and the landlord themselves (after 24 hours notice). Anything else without my express consent would be illegal entry?
I need to have a conversation about the line in the sand that I need to draw with the landlord. I just don't trust myself to make my argument well or jeopardise the position I am in by appearing hostile. I'm going to go to my local Citizens Advice office tomorrow to see what they have to say, but does anyone have any advice/opinions on this matter?
I know I need to talk to the landlord. I know I need to somehow make it clear that I need a seat at the negotiating table if things are gonna work out for this arrangement, and what my rights in all this are. I am well aware that doing so could lead to them just issuing an eviction notice for me being too troublesome. I just need to figure out how best to approach it all.
I have been renting a flat for just over two years now from a private landlord. For the most part, everything has been fine. Some small issues here or there, but nothing that couldn't eventually be sorted out. My landlord has mostly been hands off, just arranging to come round every few months for barely 5 minutes to have a quick peak to make sure we haven't trashed the place.
We even reached an agreement whereby I could keep Cats. The Tenancy Agreement I signed states that pets are not typically allowed but consideration will be made fairly upon a tenants request. As such, I invited the landlord around for a chat, she seemed agreeable on the matter as she said that I have always kept the place in impeccable condition and therefore could be trusted to continue to maintain the place with Cats in the mix. I have a letter, signed by the landlord, confirming this, which I needed to provide to the local shelter before we could adopt any of them, which I have kept among their veterinary records.
This is all well and good, but problems have arisen in the last couple of months. The landlord turned up a couple of months ago and informed us that she was selling the flat, and so we would need to be looking to move out in roughly July, which basically acted as a 'soft' notice. Which, fair enough, this happens, we have money put aside for a deposit and moving costs so we can deal with it, plus this was a lot more notice than we are entitled to, so we can be grateful for that at least. I also call it a 'soft' notice as we have not yet been issued a formal written notice, the reasoning being that this type of flat may quite likely be sold to an Investor rather than someone looking for a place to live, and if this is the case they will likely want to keep tenants in place, meaning we wouldn't have to move. The compromise for this was that my partner and I would strip down the flat to a more bare-bones level so the estate agent could bring a photographer in to take pictures, and, given notice, they could bring in potential buyers for viewings. Living in a bare-bones flat for the same (fairly high for the area) rent and giving up days off to cleaning and showing people around the one private place I have in the world isn't what I'd call convenient BUT given that the landlord and estate agent could potentially be throwing me a bone here, I have simply resigned myself to it, as people find themselves in much shittier positions every day, I need to be grateful.
This is where the trouble has really started. I feel like my landlord has gotten more and more bold with their 'requests'. I say 'requests' as they have stopped asking me things and more just telling me that THIS IS HOW THIS WILL GO. When the estate agent needed to take pictures, naturally I had to de-clutter the place and very importantly, keep the cats out of the picture, which I achieved on the day by putting them in their carriers. The whole process only took like 10 minutes, so this wasn't an issue for them, and I understand that 'evidence' of residing pets may devalue a property in buyers eyes. My landlord occasionally states that the cats need 'removed' when photos/viewings take place, but I'm not sure what she expects here. I don't drive, and don't have immediate family nearby, and I can't really afford or arrange for them to be put in a cattery every time someone wants to come take a look. I'm certainly not just getting rid of them. I expect this will come up later.
Everything went quiet for a while until a couple of days ago, when I started getting texts from the estate agent asking if certain times/days would be suitable for viewings. I work for a 24-hour business, so my working hours can be any time of the day. This can make things awkward, so I try my best to offer any reasonable alternatives I can. They did at one point suggest that I gave them a spare key and bring in viewers when I'm not around, which I turned down immediately because:
1) The Tenancy Agreement forbids me from producing any additional keys beyond the two my partner and I were provided and
2) ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT! We have animals! We have (semi) valuable possessions! We have private and/or sensitive items/data! Why on earth would I agree to let strangers have access to these things without my direct oversight? Would anyone?
Anyway, they backed down from this pretty quickly and returned to negotiating times. Then, I receive this text today:
There are people who want to view the apartment this Thursday at 7pm. We* will be there to show them around. Make sure the cats are removed.
This is the latest in a build up of texts like it. My landlord started out by asking 'is this okay?' and 'can we arrange?' but has recently escalated to 'This is happening, be there'. I'm also really annoyed that they arranged a viewing without even asking. How do they know that date/time is okay? It's not, because I'm working and my partner is currently out of the country. What am I supposed to do with the cats? If I'm not there, are you just going to let yourself in?
As far as I'm aware, as long as I am paying my full rent and otherwise keeping up my end of the Tenancy Agreement, I have a right to complete privacy. The only people I HAVE to let in to my home are Police Officers (with a warrant) and the landlord themselves (after 24 hours notice). Anything else without my express consent would be illegal entry?
I need to have a conversation about the line in the sand that I need to draw with the landlord. I just don't trust myself to make my argument well or jeopardise the position I am in by appearing hostile. I'm going to go to my local Citizens Advice office tomorrow to see what they have to say, but does anyone have any advice/opinions on this matter?
I know I need to talk to the landlord. I know I need to somehow make it clear that I need a seat at the negotiating table if things are gonna work out for this arrangement, and what my rights in all this are. I am well aware that doing so could lead to them just issuing an eviction notice for me being too troublesome. I just need to figure out how best to approach it all.
Steam: TheBrayster
PSN: TheBrayster_92
PSN: TheBrayster_92
0
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Might be time to reach out to whatever tenant resources you have to see what your rights are for not having your day to day disrupted so much.
As for the pets, I'd just put my foot down and say I'm not crating them up constantly for showings.
This is where you're really going to have to talk to people in your area; in California, there's specific exceptions for the situation you describe (a rented unit being sold), and I don't think they're all that different than what you describe. I had a fight with a landlord once about this, but that was more that they were calling me at 5pm to say someone wanted to visit at 9am the next morning; a few days advance knowledge is usually considered reasonable. Obviously you should lock up anything private, but the realtor is going to have liability if anything gets stolen / etc.
The pets obviously make it much more difficult, but unless your local has unique restrictions there, you might be out of luck; honestly, I wound up just moving (I basically negotiated being accommodating for a couple weeks in exchange for terminating the lease early), because there wasn't any way it wasn't going to be a giant pain.
Buyers will want to come when it's convenient for them. The seller - your landlord - wants to sell so will be accommodating to them.
When a place is for sale, It's not uncommon for keys to be just chained to a tree or on a lockbox on the door. Agent should work with landlord though, not you.
So yeah, you'll need to check your local laws.
"Hey, sorry, I'm working at that time and can't get out of it. You caught me at a real bad time with my partner on travel. You're of course welcome to show the place and I can have the cats in the carriers for the duration, or I can support Thursday at 430pm or Friday at 7 as you requested. "
Depending on your financial situation it may indeed be worth using a cattery a few times. Just depends how much you're willing to spend to avoid big time stress
in most U.S. states landlords may show a rented apartment without consent, but must give notice and must do so within regular business hours (i.e. not 7pm.) They also cannot force tenants to do things like clean or reorganize the unit (beyond usual standards of habitability) or secure pets, unless those things are specified in the rental agreement.
Now in practice, a lot of the time you might make minor concessions to your landlord in such situations in the interest of maintaining a favorable relationship (i.e. crating your cats for 10 minutes, showing after 5pm, etc.) But find out now whether you're within your rights to refuse such things. Without knowing anything about UK regulations, your landlord probably is not empowered to enter the unit after business hours without consent. There are probably free local resources (google around) about the relevant regs in your area.
Also you're probably best off looking for another place to live; your situation will be up in the air for who knows how long pending this sale, which isn't a great situation to be in.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The cats aren't really the problem anyway in my opinion.
Your landlord is exploiting your desire to stay to keep the revenue coming in so they can take their time in putting the place on the market. So while you live in a spartan apartment that you pay full price for, they get to keep collecting rent and making demands of you until that perfect offer comes along.
Move out.
Edited: Politeness.
Following the text I received from my landlord, I texted her back stating that that date/time combination would simply not be possible as neither of us could be there. The response was 'We have the right to give you 24 hours notice to see round the apartment which we will do on THURSDAY AT 7PM the cats must be removed and you can have a representative if you wish'.
I'm due to visit my local Citizens Advice Bureau soon to confirm in either case, but from my own reading I'm pretty sure she is wrong.
In the UK, every Tenancy carries with it the 'Covenant of Quiet Enjoyment'. The basic gist of this is, the tenant has the right to enjoy the privacy of their home and any form of intrusion on that requires the express permission of the residing tenant. Based on this, as far as I can tell, the landlord is only allowed entry either in an emergency or after 24 hours WRITTEN notice to inspect for damage and repairs. This situation is neither of those things.
I will seek further advice before stomping my foot down and yelling 'No, YOU move!' but as far as I can tell I have every right to refuse them on this regardless of how persistent they are. But again, I may need a reference for my next residence so it's going to be quite a fine balancing act to assert my rights while at the same time not causing an ugly fight here.
I'll post again once I've had some more official advice.
PSN: TheBrayster_92
This isn't a family member getting pushy, it's his landlord. Unless he has legal backing with whatever the ordinances are in his hometown this conversation is going to essentially stop with the landlord saying "It's my place, check your lease." and case closed. In trying to move the property, she has no reason to be courteous and every reason to push him into moving as quickly as possible.
My steps would be to:
- Confirm with the Bureau what my rights were in this situation
- Once I know, Make a concrete plan for moving out, and a back up plan if things break bad (can you afford storage and a cheap airbnb? can you afford storage and the kindness of a friend with a couch and internet? How long can work deal with you being a hobo?)
- Appeal to the landlord when I have a plan to get out, and say that hey, it would be more appealing to show this spot with me not around, but the current showing schedule is making it harder for me to find a place. Can we lock down this schedule with the interest of me getting out by X date?
- Be a whole bitch if they dont agree to the above BUT I know they are out of step with my rights.
Everyone gets shitty when you try to throw the book at them, so I would know your rights, try to make it seem like you are trying to help her out, and get out of dodge with a good recommendation. Friendliness locks down when you go nuclear, so I only go down that path when I've exhausted amicable terms.
Not long before I went to my appointment with Citizens Advice, I received a text from my landlord stating that this (the text) was a notice for me to have left the property in one months time (23/06/18). More on this later.
I spent about an hour and a half talking to the guy at Citizens Advice who pretty much confirmed to me what I had found out through my own earlier research. To be doubly sure, he even pointed me in the direction of Housing Rights NI, who would be the more specialised local people for issues as specific as mine. I spent an hour on the phone with these guys, and they essentially said the same thing, but in more detail.
The bottom line is that a landlord has two options when it comes to access to a property, Unannounced and scheduled.
- An unannounced entry is STRICTLY for emergencies only. This is a situation where the landlord has been made aware that something serious occurring in the flat that the tenant is in no position to resolve themselves, often due to absence (gas/oil leaks, flooding etc). This is the only time a landlord is to ever enter an occupied property without the express consent of the residing tenant, short of a Court Order being issued.
- A scheduled entry is a situation whereby the Landlord has contacted the tenant and expressed a desire to enter the property. This, primarily, is for the purpose of inspection, to ensure that the property is being well kept and to ensure that everything that should be working, is working. This right extends to the Landlord ONLY, they are not entitled to bring anyone with them, nor is this right to be extended to any other purpose. No matter how much the Landlord would like to bring in an estate agent or workmen, the tenant has every right to refuse*. These visits must be arranged, IN WRITING, at least 24 hours in advance, and require the tenants consent. The tenant has the right to refuse even this, though they are expected to be reasonable about it. Even if a tenant is repeatedly unreasonable in their refusal, this still does not provide grounds for entry, but simply provides reason to provide a Notice to Quit mid-fixed term tenancy rather than waiting until the lease runs out.
- A Landlord allowing themselves entry without consent for any non-emergency is guilty of trespassing, plain and simple. A landlord repeatedly pressing for entry in spite of refusal can also be found guilty of harassment.
*
So, at no point am I ever obligated to allow the Landlord entry for anything other than the above reasons, including house viewings to prospective buyers. As such, I can freely wave away any demands she makes on this front.
While I was speaking to Citizens Advice, I advised them of the text I received from the landlord prior to my arrival, to which the guy I was talking to laughed. He said my landlord appears to be of the belief that simply informing me of events occurring means that such things are set in stone. They are wrong, however, as such matters need to be issued in writing - signed and dated by them. He advised me that, if I so wished, I could simply ignore this message. When the time came for the landlord to collect the keys, I could simply inform them that as I did not receive the notice in writing and in the proper format, my months notice had not yet started**.
**
When I got home I spent a good while putting together all my notes before sending an email to my landlord regarding all this. It was quite long, so I'm just going to snip each paragraph down to a basic paraphrase so you can get the message:
2) In regards to the viewing - No, this cannot happen. As per my previous messages, my partner and I are physically unable to be present on the date/time that you have stated. If you truly wish to enter the premises at this point the only option you have would be to allow yourself in, though I would advise against this as such an action would leave you foul of the law in the form of both trespassing and harassment from a landlord.
3) Re-iterated the rights of entry of a landlord as stated above.
4) This information I have laid out to you is sourced from the Citizens Advice Bureau and Housing Rights NI, and I have provided their contact details and web addresses should you require them.
5) As we have had had a friendly relationship up to this point, I'd prefer it if we didn't sour things between us for the last month. I am still 100% happy to liaise with X at [Estate Agents] to arrange for viewings during this time, and am open to requests should you guys require my assistance with anything, but in return for this I also need due consideration for my own schedule and 'Right to Quiet Residence' as protected by Law.
6) I have advised X at [Estate Agents] of this conversation, as he is a big part of assisting you in this process I felt I should keep him in the loop. I have informed him that any viewers that have not been able to get in for a viewing have the option of an appointment next Friday, and once my partner is back in country I will keep him posted of her availability too. Over the coming weeks we would like to aim to have at least one day a week between the two of us where we can accommodate viewings over the course of a few hours in the afternoon, keeping the morning free to clean up and de-clutter to ensure the apartment is at its most presentable. I feel that this is the most reasonable I can be with the schedule restraints that I have.
I feel like I am being as reasonable as I can possibly be, given the circumstances. Hopefully she takes it well. I've never known her to take longer than an hour to reply to anything I send her, and I sent this message 9 hours ago.
PSN: TheBrayster_92
They're likely to take offense, if they're like most landlords I've had the pleasure of dealing with. Though now that they know you know the law they're just going to push you out so they can get a buyer quicker.
I didn't really think to say, to be honest.
I mean, what is she gonna do, kick me out?* Oh wait a minute...
*
PSN: TheBrayster_92
I expect this will cause some amount of friction.
Did you happen to ask if there are rules about what they can say about you as a rental referral to a property owner who calls to ask? I would hope they can just say, "yes The Brayster rented, yes The Brayster paid on time, yes The Brayster moved out and left the rental unit in good condition."
You should verify this with the same Citizens Advice and Housing Rights people just to be sure. At best, it's ten or fifteen minutes on the phone to confirm that everything's still on the up and up. At worst you'll need to find a place to put your cats up for the duration of your lease.