An [Elon Musk] thread.

milski

Elon Musk is showing up everywhere. In space, in Chat, in the Freedom of the Press threads, in Twitter fights with the guy who makes Existential Comics. So I figured he deserved a separate thread.

This thread is to discuss the (in)famous billiomaire, cofounder of Paypal, maker of Tesla electric cars, promiser of hyperloops and mass increases in factory efficiency, and any other Musk related news stories. Keep the space stuff in the space thread, though.

I pledge to write 300 words on Musk in this OP by the end of work today.

Updating this OP has met unexpected delays but I expect exponential growth is just around the corner

Update: This OP has been nationalized by the Existential State. See below for an official update:

cloudeagle

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time my opinion of a person went from "this guy is awesome!" to "this guy is horrible!" to Musk's extent.

Styrofoam Sammich

Sample no. 6389601 in "Push a libertarian even slightly and there's a reactionary under the surface"

durandal4532

Great now the forums are going to be rated half a star on pravda

milski

cloudeagle wrote: »

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time my opinion of a person went from "this guy is awesome!" to "this guy is horrible!" to Musk's extent.

I actually was always uneasy with him. I didn't hang with the skeptic/SCIENCE! crowd online so I didn't get pulled into the first wave, and while space is cool I heard of SpaceX's low pay and a few critical articles of Musk before the worship ball really hit me. So I was kinda primed to expect this sort of fall from grace

jothki

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Sample no. 6389601 in "Push a libertarian even slightly and there's a reactionary under the surface"

There isn't that much of a mental gap between "I should be able to do whatever I want" and "everyone else should do what I want".

Polaritie

My opinion of Musk keeps getting more complicated.

I think maybe... "wealthy, prideful, dreamer, dumb, hires good engineers"

Enc

Elon Musk is like the poster child of why giving someone unlimited power will eventually corrupt absolutely. The anecdote about his loyal personal assistant getting let go for daring to ask for a raise after 12 years (and the company exploding in size and success) seems salient.

Sadgasm

jothki wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Sample no. 6389601 in "Push a libertarian even slightly and there's a reactionary under the surface"

There isn't that much of a mental gap between "I should be able to do whatever I want" and "everyone else should do what I want".

It's the true nature of the philosophies that obsess over individualism, like Objectivists. It's not really a matter of embracing the idea that people should be able to succeed or fail by their own merits alone, it's appeal lies in the idea that we're super special and it's all societies fault for holding us back with their "rules" and "morals", and if we could just all do whatever we wanted, the market would justify it because clearly I'm destined for greatness. Like they said in Bioshock, someone still has to clean the bathrooms.

AngelHedgie

durandal4532 wrote: »

Great now the forums are going to be rated half a star on pravda

We'll wear that half star with pride.

override367

Musk gets compared to supervillain hank scorpio but that really isn't fair, Scorpio pays well and treats his employees like humans

jothki

Sadgasm wrote: »

jothki wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Sample no. 6389601 in "Push a libertarian even slightly and there's a reactionary under the surface"

There isn't that much of a mental gap between "I should be able to do whatever I want" and "everyone else should do what I want".

It's the true nature of the philosophies that obsess over individualism, like Objectivists. It's not really a matter of embracing the idea that people should be able to succeed or fail by their own merits alone, it's appeal lies in the idea that we're super special and it's all societies fault for holding us back with their "rules" and "morals", and if we could just all do whatever we wanted, the market would justify it because clearly I'm destined for greatness. Like they said in Bioshock, someone still has to clean the bathrooms.

Except that they feel that society should go out of its way to protect and enable them, since they're obviously better than everyone else and thus anyone else harming them or even being more successful is thus somehow immoral, even though they claim in every other instance that morality shouldn't exist.

Evil Multifarious

Responsible futurists should be pushing for legislation to equitably distribute the benefits of technology as hard as they push for the development of that technology.

I don't see Musk as one of those people.

Great name, though.

Honk

It's a bit complicated I guess. He seems like a fairly bad person, kind of like any random billionaire. But the hype was there that he was different. I can't recall if I ever believed it though. At least with Space X they're doing some really awesome things, and I say they because for a while I haven't been sure what Musk actually does except be a boss.

I feel like everything has to be caveated with the fact that Space X is doing really really good actual work.

But I've been thinking for a long time that Musk just doesn't have any clue what is realistic and not, and has a poorly aligned filter of what is a good or bad idea. Seems like he had drive and a bit of luck a few times and now enough smart people are dependent on him that manage turning some part of his promises into reality.

If he unveiled tomorrow that a shaft through the earth's core is the transportation mode of the future I feel that would be 100% expected.

Styrofoam Sammich

I have significant respect for Space X's engineers and the people there doing the day in and day out hard work of making the technology work. I hope Musk catches the first rocket to the sun his employees come up with.

Also, in new frontiers of self-owning:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-union/uaw-accuses-musk-of-threatening-tesla-workers-over-unionization-idUSKCN1IP2XS

The United Auto Workers union (UAW) has filed a complaint accusing Tesla Inc Chief Executive Elon Musk of illegally threatening to take away benefits from workers who join the union.

Musk in a tweet on Monday said there was nothing stopping Tesla workers from joining a union, but “why pay union dues & give up stock options for nothing?”

AngelHedgie

Evil Multifarious wrote: »

Responsible futurists should be pushing for legislation to equitably distribute the benefits of technology as hard as they push for the development of that technology.

I don't see Musk as one of those people.

Great name, though.

The problem is that Silicon Valley rejects the idea of regulation.

Sadgasm

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

I have significant respect for Space X's engineers and the people there doing the day in and day out hard work of making the technology work. I hope Musk catches the first rocket to the sun his employees come up with.

Also, in new frontiers of self-owning:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-union/uaw-accuses-musk-of-threatening-tesla-workers-over-unionization-idUSKCN1IP2XS

The United Auto Workers union (UAW) has filed a complaint accusing Tesla Inc Chief Executive Elon Musk of illegally threatening to take away benefits from workers who join the union.

Musk in a tweet on Monday said there was nothing stopping Tesla workers from joining a union, but “why pay union dues & give up stock options for nothing?”

Jeez, another asshole robber baron threatening Tesla, history really does repeat itself

Buttcleft

AngelHedgie wrote: »

Evil Multifarious wrote: »

Responsible futurists should be pushing for legislation to equitably distribute the benefits of technology as hard as they push for the development of that technology.

I don't see Musk as one of those people.

Great name, though.

The problem is that Silicon Valley rejects the idea of regulation.

All big businesses reject the idea of regulation, because regulations force them to behave and risks the unspeakable evil of *gasp* having to pay taxes!.

Elon doesnt strike me as a responsible futurist, though. He strikes me as a 2 year old playing with the worlds biggest most expensive toy box, and chafes and has tantrums when he has to do things he doesnt like.. Like listen to Reporters who point out valid concerns and criticisms, or..you know..basic workplace safety.

I really wish our society would stop idolizing these manchildren.

Doodmann

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Musk in a tweet on Monday said there was nothing stopping Tesla workers from joining a union, but “why pay union dues & give up stock options for nothing?”

*fryeye*

I feel like the group with stock options and the group trying to unionize can't possibly be the same people.

Styrofoam Sammich

Doodmann wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Musk in a tweet on Monday said there was nothing stopping Tesla workers from joining a union, but “why pay union dues & give up stock options for nothing?”

*fryeye*

I feel like the group with stock options and the group trying to unionize can't possibly be the same people.

Stock options are apparently an outsized portion of their compensation because it's not legal yet to pay in optimism or Rick and Morty paraphernalia and it's not like they have cash to give them instead.

Couscous

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-23/musk-filed-for-pravda-business-months-before-scorning-the-media

If state filings are any guide, Tesla Inc.’s Elon Musk wasn’t joking about setting up a site that would enable news consumers to evaluate the veracity of media reports.

Pravda means “truth” in Russian and was the name of the official newspaper of the former Soviet Union. The California Secretary of State’s website shows a Pravda Corp. was registered in October in Delaware. The filing agent and the address listed -- 216 Park Road, Burlingame, California -- are identical to the name and location used for at least two other Musk entities: brain-computer interface startup Neuralink Corp. and tunnel-digging company Boring Co.

This is going to be hilarious.

AngelHedgie

Buttcleft wrote: »

All big businesses reject the idea of regulation, because regulations force them to behave and risks the unspeakable evil of *gasp* having to pay taxes!

This is one of those bits of "common sense" that actually isn't. Many big businesses do, in fact, want regulation, because regulation removes uncertainty and makes for a more level playing field.

Jephery

AngelHedgie wrote: »

Buttcleft wrote: »

All big businesses reject the idea of regulation, because regulations force them to behave and risks the unspeakable evil of *gasp* having to pay taxes!

This is one of those bits of "common sense" that actually isn't. Many big businesses do, in fact, want regulation, because regulation removes uncertainty and makes for a more level playing field.

And if you want to get really, really cynical, capturing regulatory agencies gives you another club to wield against your competitors.

Though that happening is more a reflection of the general corruption of the political system (getting rid of regulatory agencies won't fix corrupt government no matter what libertarians think), not a mark against regulation itself.

Sadgasm

Buttcleft wrote: »

AngelHedgie wrote: »

Evil Multifarious wrote: »

Responsible futurists should be pushing for legislation to equitably distribute the benefits of technology as hard as they push for the development of that technology.

I don't see Musk as one of those people.

Great name, though.

The problem is that Silicon Valley rejects the idea of regulation.

All big businesses reject the idea of regulation, because regulations force them to behave and risks the unspeakable evil of *gasp* having to pay taxes!.

Elon doesnt strike me as a responsible futurist, though. He strikes me as a 2 year old playing with the worlds biggest most expensive toy box, and chafes and has tantrums when he has to do things he doesnt like.. Like listen to Reporters who point out valid concerns and criticisms, or..you know..basic workplace safety.

I really wish our society would stop idolizing these manchildren.

Forget it, he's a tech god and a "self made" billionaire, thats like serving cocaine sprinkled donuts. Remember how people deified Steve Jobs even though his entire fortune was based on stealing from his partners and driving sweat shop workers to suicide?

tinwhiskers

The Tesla stuff has always struck me as a bit of a laugh. Like all his other stupid side projects are basically bespoke little moonshot projects. Which hey, if some rich twit wants to spend a bunch of his money on a bunch of random R&D projects all cool. But Tesla, that is what happens when someone whose only experience in scaling is flipping on more servers tries to exist in the analog world.

Ford sells an F150 every 30 seconds . Telsa allegedly builds 500 Model 3s a day. And by most reports, they are not good. You can see it with all the "And we're going to fix this" posts, that the idea of having to ship a hands off finished product just hasn't sunken in yet.

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/

And this one is just insane:
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-tesla-model-3-monthly-update-for-april-2018.html

Maintenance and Upkeep

Based on many issues we had early in the month, we took the Model 3 in for service. The most annoying of those issues was a repeated, uncontrollable increase in stereo volume, sometimes when we weren't even in the car. Basically, the stereo would suddenly go to full volume without explanation. This and other issues are cataloged from our notes below:

• Would not recognize keycard in or on the console and hence would not go into gear. It did, however, unlock the car. Workaround was to force quit the app and restart the app. Then it would allow the choice of Drive or Reverse.

• The backup camera screen did not appear when reversing.

• Nav screen going haywire: zooming, scrolling, pinching, pixelating all at once.

• Audio system turning on by itself at full volume.

• Audio display randomly moving up and down the screen without any command from a human.

• Audio system came on and went to full volume all by itself while the car was off, locked and unoccupied. I heard it from 100 yards away. "Who is that joker playing his stereo so loud I can hear it from here?" Oh, it's Elon. I turned it down, but it kept wavering up and down as I started driving, working against my repeated attempts to dial it down. Then it blasted all the way to maximum. My ears are still ringing two hours later. Fixed after reboot. Not sure about hearing damage.

• Audio page leaping up and down rapidly like the up-caret button to expand the source menu was being played with by a kid who ate too much candy. Concurrent with the volume problem above. Same reboot.

• Icons on the map screen flickering.

• The passenger vanity mirror fell off completely. Installed and held on only by double-sided tape. Reinstalled by pressing really hard on the mirror.

• The screen went completely dark on startup, no music or operation. Restarted the car. The screen worked; the backup camera did not.

After diagnosing the car's problems, we took the Model 3 to the service center mid-April. The service center replaced our center screen, updated our firmware, and sent us on our way. That trip to the service center also included a software update, which was meant to address some very specific problems we were having with the Autopilot system. For more on that update, check out this video. The entire process at the service center only took about three hours, so we waited and drove the car home the same day. The service was free and we haven't had the volume issue again, but there were several warnings in the following two weeks:

• The car will not shift into Drive or Reverse upon startup. "Vehicle Systems Are Powering Up. Shift Into D or R After Message Clears." Have to wait for it to power up. A loud click comes from the rear of the car as if a drive shaft is engaging and the message on the screen goes away.

• The car displays a new message: "Cannot Maintain Vehicle Power. Car May Stop Driving or Shut Down." No shutdowns yet, but keeping an eye out.

• With 170 miles of range, the car displays a "Regenerative Braking Limited" message. Plenty of available space to store regen power. Logged the issue, then reset the screen with a reboot. The message has not displayed since.

• While the car was parked, the passenger sun visor was left down and the mirror fell out. Pressed back into place. Hoping it won't fall out again.

Just to recap, this has all happened in the past four weeks, less than four full months into our yearlong test. We've already scheduled a third service visit for next month, and our collective patience with this car is wearing thin.

Zxerol

"Have you tried turning your car off and then on again?"

Muzzmuzz

I have always been leery of Musk especially because he has a quasi cult dedicated to him on the internet. No one, aside Mr. Rogers should get that much adoration.

Buttcleft

.

Muzzmuzz wrote: »

I have always been leery of Musk especially because he has a quasi cult dedicated to him on the internet. No one, aside Mr. Rogers should get that much adoration.

I have been leery of musk because he made his fortune with paypal, which was a rancid fecal taco.. and hi current business enterprises dont seem far removed from those kinds of practices, especially Tesla.

I would say more about his bullshit godly status in the eyes of his cult, but comparing him to another undeservingly popular manchild in America will probably be beyond the scope of this thread.

y2jake215

Corrupting Grimes was the last straw

Madican

Enc wrote: »

Elon Musk is like the poster child of why giving someone unlimited power will eventually corrupt absolutely. The anecdote about his loyal personal assistant getting let go for daring to ask for a raise after 12 years (and the company exploding in size and success) seems salient.

I need a link to this story. I believe it, but confirmation.

Vic_Hazard

His companies are publicly funded? I had no idea and this really changes how I see the whole thing. I thought the whole schtick was that Tesla and SpaceX were totally private.

Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud

Elon is currently bashing an incredibly respected science communication individual on twitter. He refers to any type of nano-bioscience research as completely fake. I can't stress how much of an ignorant tool Elon Musk has become over the past year.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

spool32

OP is

5/7 excellent @milski

dispatch.o

Musk is the example of what the difference between intelligence and wisdom is. He's charismatic and very intelligent, but totally deficient in his connection to the reality the rest of us live in.

It's a little strange he has a cult of personality building itself around him. Unlike Jobs, I haven't seen him really cultivate one. It says more about the number of people who worship wealth and excentricity than Musk as an icon.

Knight_

Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud wrote: »

Elon is currently bashing an incredibly respected science communication individual on twitter. He refers to any type of nano-bioscience research as completely fake. I can't stress how much of an ignorant tool Elon Musk has become over the past year.

if i, a man who is wealthy because i cofounded a really shitty internet money sending service, do not believe it, it must be fake. clearly.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Styrofoam Sammich

electricitylikesme wrote: »

dispatch.o wrote: »

Musk is the example of what the difference between intelligence and wisdom is. He's charismatic and very intelligent, but totally deficient in his connection to the reality the rest of us live in.

It's a little strange he has a cult of personality building itself around him. Unlike Jobs, I haven't seen him really cultivate one. It says more about the number of people who worship wealth and excentricity than Musk as an icon.

Wealth worship seems like entirely the wrong conclusion to draw here? Like if there's anything which defines Musk's cult of personality it's not really a worship of him being wealthy?

You can't separate the "omg so random such an out there genius" from the wealth that enables it.

He's another shitty business guy but he's managed the fairly unique for his class personal branding that appeals to the "I fucking love science" types.

KetBra

Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud wrote: »

Elon is currently bashing an incredibly respected science communication individual on twitter. He refers to any type of nano-bioscience research as completely fake. I can't stress how much of an ignorant tool Elon Musk has become over the past year.

I feel this must be a result of overuse of nano as a marketing term.

And also Musk being an egotistical idiot but like a combination of the two

Julius

electricitylikesme wrote: »

dispatch.o wrote: »

Musk is the example of what the difference between intelligence and wisdom is. He's charismatic and very intelligent, but totally deficient in his connection to the reality the rest of us live in.

It's a little strange he has a cult of personality building itself around him. Unlike Jobs, I haven't seen him really cultivate one. It says more about the number of people who worship wealth and excentricity than Musk as an icon.

Wealth worship seems like entirely the wrong conclusion to draw here? Like if there's anything which defines Musk's cult of personality it's not really a worship of him being wealthy?

I don't think anyone actually worships wealth as such, just those doing "cool" things with their wealth. Rich and Famous lifestyle mags don't dryly recite numbers, they show actions.

Vacations in Cannes and flying private jets isn't different from building flamethrowers or cool rockets, it just reflects what different fans find cool.

Zek

dispatch.o wrote: »

Musk is the example of what the difference between intelligence and wisdom is. He's charismatic and very intelligent, but totally deficient in his connection to the reality the rest of us live in.

It's a little strange he has a cult of personality building itself around him. Unlike Jobs, I haven't seen him really cultivate one. It says more about the number of people who worship wealth and excentricity than Musk as an icon.

Musk isn't known for his wealth and eccentricity, he's known for being a wildly optimistic futurist who (mostly) delivers results, which is a rare combination. Maybe this is a stretch, but I'm thinking the rise of Musk-worship is in part connected to the political situation in the US since 2016. Liberal-minded people are feeling increasingly pessimistic about the state of the world, and Musk is a guy who promises huge revolutionary changes driven by cutting edge technology. That's a very appealing idea for tech-minded individuals who are looking for some source of hope.

I'm sure Musk has always been kind of a jerk but I think he's doing a hard heel turn lately as he starts to buy into his own hype. It's the unique combination of fuck-you money plus a bunch of people telling you that you're literally the savior of the human race. He's alienating people pretty rapidly and if his businesses continue to dip in performance (see the Model 3 response) I think it's only a matter of time until his investors turn on him.