I'm not a big RTS fan, but I liked Red Alert 3 and the expansion on PC. Interesting that the expansion got renamed when it got ported to 360, wonder if there's a story there.
I actually forgot both C&C3 and RA3 were on 360. That's actually pretty interesting.
EDIT - ooo! I wonder if they'll implement m/kb controls for those. Probably not as that would definitely create a weird skill stratification as the m/kb users would be able to navigate and issue orders quicker than their controller-jockey brethren.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
One of my favorite things about the ongoing BC on X1 is that the Twitter replies listing off games that aren’t BC yet get increasingly obscure or impossible.
And thus the great Tim Curry's amazing scenery-chewing performance in RA3 is preserved for posterity. Maybe there actually is some justice in the world.
One of my favorite things about the ongoing BC on X1 is that the Twitter replies listing off games that aren’t BC yet get increasingly obscure or impossible.
This is awesome- I wonder if anyone has set up a bot for backwards compatible games like @PutGameOnSwitch does.
I wonder if we'll ever get any more original Xbox BC games. Guessing not at this point. But I would have liked to see things like DOA3 and Deathrow on there.
I wonder if we'll ever get any more original Xbox BC games. Guessing not at this point. But I would have liked to see things like DOA3 and Deathrow on there.
I mean, I think we will--it's slow, but admittedly, they're juggling that and also Xbox 360 BC, which people are more interested in.
I wonder if we'll ever get any more original Xbox BC games. Guessing not at this point. But I would have liked to see things like DOA3 and Deathrow on there.
I mean, I think we will--it's slow, but admittedly, they're juggling that and also Xbox 360 BC, which people are more interested in.
Slow is one way of putting it... they haven't added any since April last year, not counting the GTA San Andreas 360 port you get with an old Xbox disc.
Yeah, I get why 360 games are more of a focus. Just wishing for unicorns and rainbows
Since we got Ninja Gaiden, I'd love to see Dead or Alive 3 and Dead or Alive 2: Ultimate make it over....they were hugely high-profile on the original Xbox (since Tekken was still a sony exclusive, and only SoulCalibur II was multiplatform), not to mention graphical powerhouses.
But we haven't even gotten Dead or Alive 4 from Xbox 360 (again, another big, high profile release)....older titles seem even less likely.
I guess I should just be grateful that Koei-Tecmo didn't somehow screw Microsoft out of Ninja Gaiden Black. Though it's not a little thing, granting publishing rights to Microsoft for an existing game, possibly in perpetuity.
Since we got Ninja Gaiden, I'd love to see Dead or Alive 3 and Dead or Alive 2: Ultimate make it over....they were hugely high-profile on the original Xbox (since Tekken was still a sony exclusive, and only SoulCalibur II was multiplatform), not to mention graphical powerhouses.
But we haven't even gotten Dead or Alive 4 from Xbox 360 (again, another big, high profile release)....older titles seem even less likely.
I guess I should just be grateful that Koei-Tecmo didn't somehow screw Microsoft out of Ninja Gaiden Black. Though it's not a little thing, granting publishing rights to Microsoft for an existing game, possibly in perpetuity.
DoA2 Ultimate would be so good. I still need to do the 100-fights-in-a-row challenge. I think I hit the high 60s at my best.
The thing sinking all of them is probably the dang Aerosmith songs.
Edit: Apparently the survival mode is only 50 fights in a row, not 100, so I have no idea what I was thinking about.
I own Deathsmiles and Deathsmiles IIX so I am right there with the obsessed Cave fan. Add Mushihimesama and Muchi Muchi Pork and I would be even happier. I want to shout a happy "PORK UP!" once again.
Didn't DoA 2 use the analog buttons from the original xbox? I know DoAX used them.
The DoA ultimate games were 360BC so I don’t think they relied on the analog buttons. That’s not a 100% guarantee, of course, they ported the Baldur’s Gate games and those were rough with digital buttons.
Didn't DoA 2 use the analog buttons from the original xbox? I know DoAX used them.
The DoA ultimate games were 360BC so I don’t think they relied on the analog buttons. That’s not a 100% guarantee, of course, they ported the Baldur’s Gate games and those were rough with digital buttons.
Yeah, Ultimate ran through BC, so something was figured out.
I hadn't thought about the Aerosmith songs. I mean, it wouldn't be impossible just to mute or replace the audio, but that is something DOA2U, DOA3, and DOA4 have in common. Backwards compatibility has made bigger changes in titles.
Didn't DoA 2 use the analog buttons from the original xbox? I know DoAX used them.
The DoA ultimate games were 360BC so I don’t think they relied on the analog buttons. That’s not a 100% guarantee, of course, they ported the Baldur’s Gate games and those were rough with digital buttons.
Yeah, Ultimate ran through BC, so something was figured out.
I hadn't thought about the Aerosmith songs. I mean, it wouldn't be impossible just to mute or replace the audio, but that is something DOA2U, DOA3, and DOA4 have in common. Backwards compatibility has made bigger changes in titles.
Especially since all of the licensed songs are just menu music or opening movie sorts of things. I don't think any of them play during actual gameplay? I could be wrong there.
On a completely unrelated topic, I've had "If it don't fit, don't wear it" stuck in my head for the last two hours since someone mentioned DOAXBV. Kinda want to find an ice pick and see if I can stab the pain away.
I mean, I only think about Death By Degrees 33% of the time anyone (myself included) mentions Tekken, and I've barely stabbed myself in eyeballs in response.
Didn't DoA 2 use the analog buttons from the original xbox? I know DoAX used them.
The DoA ultimate games were 360BC so I don’t think they relied on the analog buttons. That’s not a 100% guarantee, of course, they ported the Baldur’s Gate games and those were rough with digital buttons.
Yeah, Ultimate ran through BC, so something was figured out.
I hadn't thought about the Aerosmith songs. I mean, it wouldn't be impossible just to mute or replace the audio, but that is something DOA2U, DOA3, and DOA4 have in common. Backwards compatibility has made bigger changes in titles.
Especially since all of the licensed songs are just menu music or opening movie sorts of things. I don't think any of them play during actual gameplay? I could be wrong there.
The Aerosmith songs--all of which I like, actually--are only present for the openings of 3 games, and the ending theme ("Amazing") for Dead or Alive 4. There might be one or two other licensed sons in DOA4 though.
I mean, I only think about Death By Degrees 33% of the time anyone (myself included) mentions Tekken, and I've barely stabbed myself in eyeballs in response.
Didn't DoA 2 use the analog buttons from the original xbox? I know DoAX used them.
The DoA ultimate games were 360BC so I don’t think they relied on the analog buttons. That’s not a 100% guarantee, of course, they ported the Baldur’s Gate games and those were rough with digital buttons.
Yeah, Ultimate ran through BC, so something was figured out.
I hadn't thought about the Aerosmith songs. I mean, it wouldn't be impossible just to mute or replace the audio, but that is something DOA2U, DOA3, and DOA4 have in common. Backwards compatibility has made bigger changes in titles.
Especially since all of the licensed songs are just menu music or opening movie sorts of things. I don't think any of them play during actual gameplay? I could be wrong there.
The Aerosmith songs--all of which I like, actually--are only present for the openings of 3 games, and the ending theme ("Amazing") for Dead or Alive 4. There might be one or two other licensed sons in DOA4 though.
Why did they bother having an ending theme for DOA4? Presumably it doesn't play until after you beat the goddamn invincible transparent green Kasumi clone, and nobody has ever done that.
OK that's a slight exaggeration.
Also I rocked a FINE mullet during the 80s and am contractually obligated to enjoy Aerosmith.
DBD is legendarily bad, but I only know it by reputation. I've only played the recent Tekken that had the hot pink-haired robot chick, and only because it had a hot pink-haired robot chick. I am fairly shallow.
I mean, I only think about Death By Degrees 33% of the time anyone (myself included) mentions Tekken, and I've barely stabbed myself in eyeballs in response.
Didn't DoA 2 use the analog buttons from the original xbox? I know DoAX used them.
The DoA ultimate games were 360BC so I don’t think they relied on the analog buttons. That’s not a 100% guarantee, of course, they ported the Baldur’s Gate games and those were rough with digital buttons.
Yeah, Ultimate ran through BC, so something was figured out.
I hadn't thought about the Aerosmith songs. I mean, it wouldn't be impossible just to mute or replace the audio, but that is something DOA2U, DOA3, and DOA4 have in common. Backwards compatibility has made bigger changes in titles.
Especially since all of the licensed songs are just menu music or opening movie sorts of things. I don't think any of them play during actual gameplay? I could be wrong there.
The Aerosmith songs--all of which I like, actually--are only present for the openings of 3 games, and the ending theme ("Amazing") for Dead or Alive 4. There might be one or two other licensed sons in DOA4 though.
Why did they bother having an ending theme for DOA4? Presumably it doesn't play until after you beat the goddamn invincible transparent green Kasumi clone, and nobody has ever done that.
OK that's a slight exaggeration.
Also I rocked a FINE mullet during the 80s and am contractually obligated to enjoy Aerosmith.
DBD is legendarily bad, but I only know it by reputation. I've only played the recent Tekken that had the hot pink-haired robot chick, and only because it had a hot pink-haired robot chick. I am fairly shallow.
It's a very bad game. It was Namco's attempt to respond to the reinterpretation of 2D Ninja Gaiden as a 3D Dead or Alive spin-off, coming out less than a year later (and pretty obviously inspired by it), exclusive to Playstation 2. Excluding seeing an extra-shiny Nina Williams in a bikini for the first few hours of the game, or possibly including that, it's 100% (or in the game's terminology, 360 degrees) terrible, especially compared to what was unquestionably one of the best action games of that generation (so much so that the Sigma re-release was one of the best Playstation 3 action games).
Alpha-152 (yes, it's sad that I remember that, but that's in no small part because she's playable as "the Jello/Toothpaste lady" in DOA5) is mildly challenging by the franchise's standards, or maybe for a SoulCalibur end boss (in part because of how fast DOA4 plays), but she's basically a chump next to your run-of-the-mill King of Fighters end bosses (well, that's why we have the trope of "SNK final boss hard"). But the real big deal behind the song, I'd say, aside from being getting to hear beloved Worldwide-Treasure-Steven-Tyler(tm) screech, is that DOA4's cinematics were basically Final Fantasy quality when the game came out (and possibly handled by some of the same contractors), and a notable step up its predecessors.
I mean, they look dated now, sure, though Brad Wong's hilarious Genra-induced drug trip is never not entertaining.
This conversation is actually a compelling argument to see how good I can make my Xbox 360 look on my new Samsung QLED, and DOA2U/DOA3 in turn. In light of returning my Hori HOTAS, this will be a fun adventure for the weekend.
I feel like Genra from DoA3 was a way harder dude to fight. Alpha-152 just had a lot of dirty moves and throws that did ridiculous amounts of damage, but the Genra fight outright altered the fabric of reality and made the camera go third-person, under the elbow of Genra.
I lost interest in DOA when they released the oXbox remasters. Basically because they changed the the mid counters. Both high and low were back on the directional pad plus whatever button. But mid split it where kick or punch counter was back and the other was forward. It got very confusing quickly. DOA3 had it by default and it just stopped being any fun.
It didn't help that I'm terrible at fighting games. I even tried to get into DOA4, but it was just to much noise. (DOA3 also didn't help with the final fight switching from a side-on camera to a near 3/4 view.)
The shift was controversial at the time. Personally I didn't mind, but I also played several times the amount of DOA3 compared to the original DOA2 on Dreamcast (also, the DC had a weird controller, so relearning everything was basically a requirement.) DOA4 feels closer to DOA3, I was say, but admittedly it's been a long time.
The Genra ("Omega") fight definitely had a weird angle that didn't help--it was an unexpected leap in difficulty from the original Tengu fight in DOA2. But DOA3 was also "Holy shit eyeball-melting visuals" so all was forgiven.
Oh, yeah. They always looked great. Most levels having multiple tiers or some sort of interactive environment.
My problem with the shift was, due to my general poor ability, I could never fully determine the type of strike. So one of the counters being completely opposite that the others means I have to start guessing what to do next. It basically meant I resorted to button mashing instead of any real strategy.
I lament not playing it anymore, but I made my peace with setting aside a genre I simply wasn't good at and only served to aggravate me. Soul Calibur was another. I liked them, but thems the breaks.
That's a good reason. I think the primary "obstacles" to DOA in general...are pretty forgiving compared to "other" 3D fighters (and by "other" I mean "Synthesis never got good at Virtua Fighter despite trying for years")...but they are:
1) Generally a much faster game than Tekken or SoulCalibur, which DOA3 and DOA4 being faster than DOA3.
2) Reversals/counters being much more dangerous than actual attacks, possibly to the point of imbalance, though that might be offset by the tiny windows presented in reason 1.
3) A much wider variety of grabs/throws than other 3D fighters being much more direction-dependent.
4) Lack of "super moves" until DOA5.
Granted, these things could make that game potentially easier...and I think that was a common complaint about DOA at the time...but those were the differences. You might also add "possibility for rampant abuse of stage geometry/layout in 1 vs 1," though that is avoidable by picking the boring Namco-style stages that are included in the list.
Also, the DOA games still have the most polished 2 vs 2 tag team mode of any 3D fighter. It's kind of surprising, but perhaps just a reflection of the direction taken in DOA2 when it came to a 4-person console like the DC first, when many other fighters were characterized by being designed for PS2, and basically no-one owned a PS2 multitap because basically no games supported it (except, haha, Dead or Alive: Hardcore).
With those things in mind, in my late teens/early twenties, DOA2/3/4 seemed approachable and forgiving enough that anyone could pick it up and engage in 2 vs 2 very easily. They were some of the last games we were still playing on the originalX Xbox.
On the other hand, I still struggle with Smash Brothers, so what do I know.
Just had to factory reset my xbox as.anthem was stuck downloading and apps weren't wanting to run. Hard resetting did nothing. Hadn't onto the delete games and apps route too, ouch
Just had to factory reset my xbox as.anthem was stuck downloading and apps weren't wanting to run. Hard resetting did nothing. Hadn't onto the delete games and apps route too, ouch
Ouch...didn't you recently have to do this before? Or was that someone else?
So here's a question: Which DOA aesthetic do you prefer? 4 and before, or 5 and on?
I'm not even sure how else to describe them -- "cartoony" and "realistic" feels like a bit of an overstatement, the latter less so, perhaps.
And I'm torn. I do like the new style, but at the same time, kinda miss the old.
That said, maybe it doesn't matter -- I'm garbo at them, anyway. XP
Hmm, well, I'm grateful that they moved away from high-sheen skin (which was a technological limitation common to a lot of games), but I kind of feel like particularly realistic character designs are a dead in a 3D fighter. I would rather than put their time and effort into the actual character costumes and stages (which...was generally what they did before DOA5), but that's just me.
Just had to factory reset my xbox as.anthem was stuck downloading and apps weren't wanting to run. Hard resetting did nothing. Hadn't onto the delete games and apps route too, ouch
Ouch...didn't you recently have to do this before? Or was that someone else?
So here's a question: Which DOA aesthetic do you prefer? 4 and before, or 5 and on?
I'm not even sure how else to describe them -- "cartoony" and "realistic" feels like a bit of an overstatement, the latter less so, perhaps.
And I'm torn. I do like the new style, but at the same time, kinda miss the old.
That said, maybe it doesn't matter -- I'm garbo at them, anyway. XP
Hmm, well, I'm grateful that they moved away from high-sheen skin (which was a technological limitation common to a lot of games), but I kind of feel like particularly realistic character designs are a dead in a 3D fighter. I would rather than put their time and effort into the actual character costumes and stages (which...was generally what they did before DOA5), but that's just me.
Ya had to do it not too long ago for a similar reason I believe. It's a titan fall xbox, so 3 months after release I got it. (Normal edition. Xbox just came with titanfall)
Just had to factory reset my xbox as.anthem was stuck downloading and apps weren't wanting to run. Hard resetting did nothing. Hadn't onto the delete games and apps route too, ouch
Ouch...didn't you recently have to do this before? Or was that someone else?
So here's a question: Which DOA aesthetic do you prefer? 4 and before, or 5 and on?
I'm not even sure how else to describe them -- "cartoony" and "realistic" feels like a bit of an overstatement, the latter less so, perhaps.
And I'm torn. I do like the new style, but at the same time, kinda miss the old.
That said, maybe it doesn't matter -- I'm garbo at them, anyway. XP
Hmm, well, I'm grateful that they moved away from high-sheen skin (which was a technological limitation common to a lot of games), but I kind of feel like particularly realistic character designs are a dead in a 3D fighter. I would rather than put their time and effort into the actual character costumes and stages (which...was generally what they did before DOA5), but that's just me.
Clipping hair is a tradition of the DoA series and I won’t hear a word against it.
But yes it’s kinda silly to see a ponytail just slide through someone’s arm.
I like the DoA5 look and was 100% a whale for costumes, but I can easily go back to the older look. I put a ton of hours into the 3DS game, even, and that’s something like 400x240 resolution.
I am absolute garbage at the games but I am absolute garbage at all fighting games. I just fight the CPU and am occasionally amazed when one of my random sequences of pushing buttons makes my character do something cool.
DOA3 was my jam in the early Xbox days. It became one of those incredibly rare games where I could almost "see the Matrix"; to the point where one game store I worked at actually followed up a tournament for another game - probably Soul Calibur 2 - with a quick DOA3 one and put up a used Xbox console as a prize if anyone, any comers, could beat me. It did not get given away, and that's one of my proudest gaming moments. However, I did have a couple of friends who were also very good at the game, enough to keep me honest. (I'm nowhere near that level now, and doubtless if it had had online multiplayer I'd have been humbled. But I still enjoy it a lot. It was without doubt the best looking game of its era by a country mile. And it remains my favourite ever fighting game.)
The changes to the mid counters in DOA2:U and subsequently DOA4 both sort of broke the game a bit for me, effectively nerfing one of the three pillars of the "rock, paper, scissors" concept the game was built on (strikes, counters, throws). I can see why they did it, and I still had a lot of fun with DOA4 but I never found my mojo with it to anything like the same degree - I just sort of landed on being "decent-ish" like I was with most fighting games. Also it was in Itagaki's "everything harder than everything else" phase and against the AI it could just get punishing. In time, DOA5, with Itagaki now gone, allowed itself to be slightly more mellow and I appreciated that. Might have to dust that off after all this conversation.
I never played the 3DS game but I've had a quick read up about it; it sounds great, and just bought a cheap copy off eBay. I blame @baudattitude entirely!
DOA:XBV also has a special place in my heart, as it came out around the time my grandma died. It was a pretty awful time. Alongside the game's famous great lashings of amazing cheesecake, the laid back, paradise island, beach vacation, friendly vibe of XBV was absolutely the perfect bit of escapism that helped me through a very difficult time. It's a shame it never became BC, and that its 360 sequel was an unholy mess. But I'll always remember XBV very fondly.
Edit: Oh yeah, and the DOA movie is one of my favourite bad movies ever. It knows exactly what it is, and it's just hilarious fun if you like that sort of thing.
Just had to factory reset my xbox as.anthem was stuck downloading and apps weren't wanting to run. Hard resetting did nothing. Hadn't onto the delete games and apps route too, ouch
Ouch...didn't you recently have to do this before? Or was that someone else?
So here's a question: Which DOA aesthetic do you prefer? 4 and before, or 5 and on?
I'm not even sure how else to describe them -- "cartoony" and "realistic" feels like a bit of an overstatement, the latter less so, perhaps.
And I'm torn. I do like the new style, but at the same time, kinda miss the old.
That said, maybe it doesn't matter -- I'm garbo at them, anyway. XP
Hmm, well, I'm grateful that they moved away from high-sheen skin (which was a technological limitation common to a lot of games), but I kind of feel like particularly realistic character designs are a dead in a 3D fighter. I would rather than put their time and effort into the actual character costumes and stages (which...was generally what they did before DOA5), but that's just me.
I just want them to fix the hair.
I know they won’t, but good god it’s still awful.
Yeah, that would be nice.
The hair physics used to kick the ass of every single other 3D fighter. Including the ones that didn't have hair physics. There's something like 3 distinct female hairstyles in SoulCalibur II, meanwhile Kasumi, by herself, has 4 hair styles in DOA3, an older game.
Come to think of it, maybe 3D fighters in general just have shit hair physics compared to Nvidia-sponsored third person action games.
I don't know. SoulCalibur VI has one costume per character, and you're responsible for the rest of them with a bunch of garbage items that almost uniformly look terrible. That might be the future of 3D fighters in general, along with Unreal Engine 4.
EDIT: Kind of how Dead or Alive 4 introduced this massive fucking stages that are still mind-blowing, and DOA5 hasn't really expanded on them (but instead made them look...cooler? I guess, though that's relative?). DOA4's showpiece stages are objectively massive, but they're also ridiculously easy to abuse so they get disabled in any sort of tournament setting.
After DOA3, I was convinced stages that weren't just glorified, pretty squares and circles floating over a bottomless pit, or walled off, were the future. Stages where you could actually exploit the environment and potentially take multiple paths. Clearly not, so boring ass Namco stages are the norm, except now they're surrounded by non-interactive fire, or a river, or angels, or Greek ruins or something.
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EDIT - ooo! I wonder if they'll implement m/kb controls for those. Probably not as that would definitely create a weird skill stratification as the m/kb users would be able to navigate and issue orders quicker than their controller-jockey brethren.
Red Alert 3 in particular was "novel" for implementing a strong co-op mechanic into the campaigns.
On PC, I got up to the Japanese campaign with my bro. Somewhere along the line, though, we kinda stopped playing it.
One of my favorite things about the ongoing BC on X1 is that the Twitter replies listing off games that aren’t BC yet get increasingly obscure or impossible.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Steam | XBL
DS Friend code: 3840-6605-3406
Steam | XBL
KING OF FIGHTERS XIII!!!
GARBARGABLBEST2DFIGHTEROFTHEGENERATIONGARBAGB
I mean, I think we will--it's slow, but admittedly, they're juggling that and also Xbox 360 BC, which people are more interested in.
Someday.
YES DO THIS IMMEDIATELY PLEASE AND THANK YOU
Slow is one way of putting it... they haven't added any since April last year, not counting the GTA San Andreas 360 port you get with an old Xbox disc.
Yeah, I get why 360 games are more of a focus. Just wishing for unicorns and rainbows
Steam | XBL
But we haven't even gotten Dead or Alive 4 from Xbox 360 (again, another big, high profile release)....older titles seem even less likely.
I guess I should just be grateful that Koei-Tecmo didn't somehow screw Microsoft out of Ninja Gaiden Black. Though it's not a little thing, granting publishing rights to Microsoft for an existing game, possibly in perpetuity.
DoA2 Ultimate would be so good. I still need to do the 100-fights-in-a-row challenge. I think I hit the high 60s at my best.
The thing sinking all of them is probably the dang Aerosmith songs.
Edit: Apparently the survival mode is only 50 fights in a row, not 100, so I have no idea what I was thinking about.
The DoA ultimate games were 360BC so I don’t think they relied on the analog buttons. That’s not a 100% guarantee, of course, they ported the Baldur’s Gate games and those were rough with digital buttons.
Yeah, Ultimate ran through BC, so something was figured out.
I hadn't thought about the Aerosmith songs. I mean, it wouldn't be impossible just to mute or replace the audio, but that is something DOA2U, DOA3, and DOA4 have in common. Backwards compatibility has made bigger changes in titles.
Especially since all of the licensed songs are just menu music or opening movie sorts of things. I don't think any of them play during actual gameplay? I could be wrong there.
On a completely unrelated topic, I've had "If it don't fit, don't wear it" stuck in my head for the last two hours since someone mentioned DOAXBV. Kinda want to find an ice pick and see if I can stab the pain away.
The Aerosmith songs--all of which I like, actually--are only present for the openings of 3 games, and the ending theme ("Amazing") for Dead or Alive 4. There might be one or two other licensed sons in DOA4 though.
Why did they bother having an ending theme for DOA4? Presumably it doesn't play until after you beat the goddamn invincible transparent green Kasumi clone, and nobody has ever done that.
Also I rocked a FINE mullet during the 80s and am contractually obligated to enjoy Aerosmith.
DBD is legendarily bad, but I only know it by reputation. I've only played the recent Tekken that had the hot pink-haired robot chick, and only because it had a hot pink-haired robot chick. I am fairly shallow.
It's a very bad game. It was Namco's attempt to respond to the reinterpretation of 2D Ninja Gaiden as a 3D Dead or Alive spin-off, coming out less than a year later (and pretty obviously inspired by it), exclusive to Playstation 2. Excluding seeing an extra-shiny Nina Williams in a bikini for the first few hours of the game, or possibly including that, it's 100% (or in the game's terminology, 360 degrees) terrible, especially compared to what was unquestionably one of the best action games of that generation (so much so that the Sigma re-release was one of the best Playstation 3 action games).
Alpha-152 (yes, it's sad that I remember that, but that's in no small part because she's playable as "the Jello/Toothpaste lady" in DOA5) is mildly challenging by the franchise's standards, or maybe for a SoulCalibur end boss (in part because of how fast DOA4 plays), but she's basically a chump next to your run-of-the-mill King of Fighters end bosses (well, that's why we have the trope of "SNK final boss hard"). But the real big deal behind the song, I'd say, aside from being getting to hear beloved Worldwide-Treasure-Steven-Tyler(tm) screech, is that DOA4's cinematics were basically Final Fantasy quality when the game came out (and possibly handled by some of the same contractors), and a notable step up its predecessors.
I mean, they look dated now, sure, though Brad Wong's hilarious Genra-induced drug trip is never not entertaining.
This conversation is actually a compelling argument to see how good I can make my Xbox 360 look on my new Samsung QLED, and DOA2U/DOA3 in turn. In light of returning my Hori HOTAS, this will be a fun adventure for the weekend.
It didn't help that I'm terrible at fighting games. I even tried to get into DOA4, but it was just to much noise. (DOA3 also didn't help with the final fight switching from a side-on camera to a near 3/4 view.)
The Genra ("Omega") fight definitely had a weird angle that didn't help--it was an unexpected leap in difficulty from the original Tengu fight in DOA2. But DOA3 was also "Holy shit eyeball-melting visuals" so all was forgiven.
My problem with the shift was, due to my general poor ability, I could never fully determine the type of strike. So one of the counters being completely opposite that the others means I have to start guessing what to do next. It basically meant I resorted to button mashing instead of any real strategy.
I lament not playing it anymore, but I made my peace with setting aside a genre I simply wasn't good at and only served to aggravate me. Soul Calibur was another. I liked them, but thems the breaks.
1) Generally a much faster game than Tekken or SoulCalibur, which DOA3 and DOA4 being faster than DOA3.
2) Reversals/counters being much more dangerous than actual attacks, possibly to the point of imbalance, though that might be offset by the tiny windows presented in reason 1.
3) A much wider variety of grabs/throws than other 3D fighters being much more direction-dependent.
4) Lack of "super moves" until DOA5.
Granted, these things could make that game potentially easier...and I think that was a common complaint about DOA at the time...but those were the differences. You might also add "possibility for rampant abuse of stage geometry/layout in 1 vs 1," though that is avoidable by picking the boring Namco-style stages that are included in the list.
Also, the DOA games still have the most polished 2 vs 2 tag team mode of any 3D fighter. It's kind of surprising, but perhaps just a reflection of the direction taken in DOA2 when it came to a 4-person console like the DC first, when many other fighters were characterized by being designed for PS2, and basically no-one owned a PS2 multitap because basically no games supported it (except, haha, Dead or Alive: Hardcore).
With those things in mind, in my late teens/early twenties, DOA2/3/4 seemed approachable and forgiving enough that anyone could pick it up and engage in 2 vs 2 very easily. They were some of the last games we were still playing on the originalX Xbox.
On the other hand, I still struggle with Smash Brothers, so what do I know.
I'm not even sure how else to describe them -- "cartoony" and "realistic" feels like a bit of an overstatement, the latter less so, perhaps.
And I'm torn. I do like the new style, but at the same time, kinda miss the old.
That said, maybe it doesn't matter -- I'm garbo at them, anyway. XP
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Ouch...didn't you recently have to do this before? Or was that someone else?
Hmm, well, I'm grateful that they moved away from high-sheen skin (which was a technological limitation common to a lot of games), but I kind of feel like particularly realistic character designs are a dead in a 3D fighter. I would rather than put their time and effort into the actual character costumes and stages (which...was generally what they did before DOA5), but that's just me.
Ya had to do it not too long ago for a similar reason I believe. It's a titan fall xbox, so 3 months after release I got it. (Normal edition. Xbox just came with titanfall)
I just want them to fix the hair.
I know they won’t, but good god it’s still awful.
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But yes it’s kinda silly to see a ponytail just slide through someone’s arm.
I like the DoA5 look and was 100% a whale for costumes, but I can easily go back to the older look. I put a ton of hours into the 3DS game, even, and that’s something like 400x240 resolution.
I am absolute garbage at the games but I am absolute garbage at all fighting games. I just fight the CPU and am occasionally amazed when one of my random sequences of pushing buttons makes my character do something cool.
The changes to the mid counters in DOA2:U and subsequently DOA4 both sort of broke the game a bit for me, effectively nerfing one of the three pillars of the "rock, paper, scissors" concept the game was built on (strikes, counters, throws). I can see why they did it, and I still had a lot of fun with DOA4 but I never found my mojo with it to anything like the same degree - I just sort of landed on being "decent-ish" like I was with most fighting games. Also it was in Itagaki's "everything harder than everything else" phase and against the AI it could just get punishing. In time, DOA5, with Itagaki now gone, allowed itself to be slightly more mellow and I appreciated that. Might have to dust that off after all this conversation.
I never played the 3DS game but I've had a quick read up about it; it sounds great, and just bought a cheap copy off eBay. I blame @baudattitude entirely!
DOA:XBV also has a special place in my heart, as it came out around the time my grandma died. It was a pretty awful time. Alongside the game's famous great lashings of amazing cheesecake, the laid back, paradise island, beach vacation, friendly vibe of XBV was absolutely the perfect bit of escapism that helped me through a very difficult time. It's a shame it never became BC, and that its 360 sequel was an unholy mess. But I'll always remember XBV very fondly.
Edit: Oh yeah, and the DOA movie is one of my favourite bad movies ever. It knows exactly what it is, and it's just hilarious fun if you like that sort of thing.
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Yeah, that would be nice.
The hair physics used to kick the ass of every single other 3D fighter. Including the ones that didn't have hair physics. There's something like 3 distinct female hairstyles in SoulCalibur II, meanwhile Kasumi, by herself, has 4 hair styles in DOA3, an older game.
Come to think of it, maybe 3D fighters in general just have shit hair physics compared to Nvidia-sponsored third person action games.
I don't know. SoulCalibur VI has one costume per character, and you're responsible for the rest of them with a bunch of garbage items that almost uniformly look terrible. That might be the future of 3D fighters in general, along with Unreal Engine 4.
EDIT: Kind of how Dead or Alive 4 introduced this massive fucking stages that are still mind-blowing, and DOA5 hasn't really expanded on them (but instead made them look...cooler? I guess, though that's relative?). DOA4's showpiece stages are objectively massive, but they're also ridiculously easy to abuse so they get disabled in any sort of tournament setting.
After DOA3, I was convinced stages that weren't just glorified, pretty squares and circles floating over a bottomless pit, or walled off, were the future. Stages where you could actually exploit the environment and potentially take multiple paths. Clearly not, so boring ass Namco stages are the norm, except now they're surrounded by non-interactive fire, or a river, or angels, or Greek ruins or something.