Makes sense, I guess. It did feel more like a Side-B than Rock Smash.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Does anyone know if were getting the free pokemon to play in Ultimate, or do we just get pokemon trainer controlled?
Only Pokemon Trainer, but there's no longer a penalty for focusing on one Pokemon. However it still auto-rotates when you die, so you won't always be able to swap back without taking damage.
With Echo Fighters being a thing and there not being that many true newcomers, how many Echo Fighters do you think we may get to expand the roster with characters whom otherwise wouldn't make it? What are some possibilities?
Dark Samus is the most obvious possibility, especially with them showing Metroid some love with Ridley being added and Metroid Prime 4 being in development. What other possibilities could be likely? Mr Sandman (Little Mac), Black Shadow (Captain Falcon), Funky Kong (Donkey Kong), Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong), Ken (Ryu), Someone else from Animal Crossing (Villager).
I've always thought Zelgius/The Black Knight from Fire Emblem Path of Radiance would make a good inclusion, he could easily be an echo of Ike.
If there's a model of Bass in the game, he could be an echo of Mega Man (and have Mega Man replace him in the Final Smash animation).
And as a completely unlikely option, Imajin from Doki Doki Panic as an echo of Mario. He could be the token 'utterly obscure character' for the new game.
I'd love another Punch Out fighter in the game, like Bald Bull. Though I doubt they would be an echo fighter. They'd probably be more like Ganondorf and Falco, having a different moveset and properties, and similar, but different special moves.
I imagine we'll see one new fighter from Three Houses getting added if we're getting another Fire Emblem character.
Robin and Corrin are at least something fresh from that direction.
Most of the various Nintendo franchises that could justify a character have been included now, there is only really a handful I could see it happening.
Advance Wars: Andy or Sami would make the most sense here probably just because they have a weapon of sorts. Already has an assist trophy, but it's just vehicles, not a character.
Golden Sun: Isaac (With Matthew as an alternate skin maybe) offers multiple elements of magic as well as a weapon. Sadly already an assist trophy.
Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents: Cheer team would be fun, but this probably better suited to an assist trophy.
Custom Robo: Ray was already in previously as an assist trophy and it's rare those get upgraded to full character status so he'll probably just return as that.
The only other one that leaps to mind potentially is Sora from Kingdom Hearts. That would mostly make sense if they were doing a batch rerelease of all the previous games in the lead up to KH3, but that got ruled out until it's out for other consoles.
IIRC the leaked list that included Snake, Ridley also had a Belmont on it, which is possible.
I feel like Marth won’t have two echoes, and Lucina’s Thing is she fights just like Chrom
Chrom could be an Ike echo. Aether is both Ike and Chrom's signature skill, and Chrom is bigger than Lucina physically. Maybe he could be adjusted to be a bit faster than Ike, but hit less hard.
(Actually, I had been hoping that they'd move Lucina further away from Marth by changing her Dolphin Slash to Aether, but that's not happening...)
I imagine we'll see one new fighter from Three Houses getting added if we're getting another Fire Emblem character.
Robin and Corrin are at least something fresh from that direction.
I think that Three Houses would have been too late in Smash's development to have someone like Edelgard added to the base roster, but I could see her coming as a DLC character. Shadows of Valentia is more in line time wise, so... maybe Celica as a Robin echo? Though she'd be best if they switched out Robin's item-breaking for Pichu's self-hurting to be like FE: Echoes' magic system. But that might make her different enough to no longer be an echo...
I'd be pretty happy if they went a little nuts with echo fighters, especially since they've already done a crapton of work to get every other fighter in history in the game.
Though I'm curious what about Young Link makes him not an echo fighter of Toon Link.
It'd make no sense for Chrom to be an echo of Ike. In Awakening, Chrom partially figures out who Lucina is because she fights exactly like him. Sakurai wouldn't gloss over something like that.
Then that's a problem for Chrom's inclusion as a playable fighter; that'd mean two Echos of Marth, basically. That's a bit much, especially with Roy also here.
I imagine we'll see one new fighter from Three Houses getting added if we're getting another Fire Emblem character.
Robin and Corrin are at least something fresh from that direction.
Most of the various Nintendo franchises that could justify a character have been included now, there is only really a handful I could see it happening.
Advance Wars: Andy or Sami would make the most sense here probably just because they have a weapon of sorts. Already has an assist trophy, but it's just vehicles, not a character.
Golden Sun: Isaac (With Matthew as an alternate skin maybe) offers multiple elements of magic as well as a weapon. Sadly already an assist trophy.
Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents: Cheer team would be fun, but this probably better suited to an assist trophy.
Custom Robo: Ray was already in previously as an assist trophy and it's rare those get upgraded to full character status so he'll probably just return as that.
The only other one that leaps to mind potentially is Sora from Kingdom Hearts. That would mostly make sense if they were doing a batch rerelease of all the previous games in the lead up to KH3, but that got ruled out until it's out for other consoles.
IIRC the leaked list that included Snake, Ridley also had a Belmont on it, which is possible.
Have we seen the Isaac assist trophy in SSBU gameplay already? I haven't watched everything so I wasn't sure what assist trophies have been confirmed. There is precedent of former assist trophies becoming playable characters later in Little Mac at least, so there could still be a chance.
I imagine we'll see one new fighter from Three Houses getting added if we're getting another Fire Emblem character.
Robin and Corrin are at least something fresh from that direction.
Most of the various Nintendo franchises that could justify a character have been included now, there is only really a handful I could see it happening.
Advance Wars: Andy or Sami would make the most sense here probably just because they have a weapon of sorts. Already has an assist trophy, but it's just vehicles, not a character.
Golden Sun: Isaac (With Matthew as an alternate skin maybe) offers multiple elements of magic as well as a weapon. Sadly already an assist trophy.
Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents: Cheer team would be fun, but this probably better suited to an assist trophy.
Custom Robo: Ray was already in previously as an assist trophy and it's rare those get upgraded to full character status so he'll probably just return as that.
The only other one that leaps to mind potentially is Sora from Kingdom Hearts. That would mostly make sense if they were doing a batch rerelease of all the previous games in the lead up to KH3, but that got ruled out until it's out for other consoles.
IIRC the leaked list that included Snake, Ridley also had a Belmont on it, which is possible.
Have we seen the Isaac assist trophy in SSBU gameplay already? I haven't watched everything so I wasn't sure what assist trophies have been confirmed. There is precedent of former assist trophies becoming playable characters later in Little Mac at least, so there could still be a chance.
I've watched a lot of footage, not everything from e3 though, and didn't see Isaac. I don't expect him to be playable (no matter how much I want him to be) but I didn't see him as an assist trophy.
I'd be pretty happy if they went a little nuts with echo fighters, especially since they've already done a crapton of work to get every other fighter in history in the game.
Though I'm curious what about Young Link makes him not an echo fighter of Toon Link.
Their back air, down air, and neutral air (and now maybe their f-smash) are different
It'd make no sense for Chrom to be an echo of Ike. In Awakening, Chrom partially figures out who Lucina is because she fights exactly like him. Sakurai wouldn't gloss over something like that.
A part of that is them both using Aether (the silly-looking spinny jump attack). There's also the fact that echo fighters share a skeleton, and Marth/Lucina are noticeably shorter than Chrom. I don't think it's too far-fetched.
If they don't bring back custom move sets, I still hope they reuse the move data from custom moves to implement new variations on existing fighters. Have they said how different Daisy is from Peach as she is the first new Echo Fighter? All the reveal said 'They look similar, but their moves behave differently', I am not that familiar with Peach in SSB4(or her custom moves) so I wonder if they went that route for the Echo Fighters and if we could actually get a bunch of them from reusing custom move data for new fighters.
For that matter, notice any changes at all for Lucina and Dark Pit?
edit: What if.... What if every character has an Echo Fighter? They specifically refer to Daisy as Peach's Echo Fighter, and not an Echo Fighter of Peach. The character select screen could have a toggle button for each fighter between the original character and the Echo fighter instead of having 130+ boxes on the screen. Some of the characters might be a stretch for finding an Echo Fighter for but I am sure Sakurai could do it if he wanted to.
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edit: What if.... What if every character has an Echo Fighter? They specifically refer to Daisy as Peach's Echo Fighter, and not an Echo Fighter of Peach. The character select screen could have a toggle button for each fighter between the original character and the Echo fighter instead of having 130+ boxes on the screen. Some of the characters might be a stretch for finding an Echo Fighter for but I am sure Sakurai could do it if he wanted to.
It's a nice idea in theory, but in practice I'm not sure every character is amenable to having their moves mapped onto someone else. I tried to come up with one for every character, and a few of them, like Duck Hunt, have me stymied. Here's the list, for reference:
Bayonetta - Jeanne
Bowser - Dry Bowser
Bowser Jr - Fawful
Captain Falcon - Blood Falcon / Black Shadow / Covered by Ganondorf
Cloud - ?
Corrin - ?
Duck Hunt - ?
Fox - Slippy
Diddy Kong - Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong - Funky Kong
Falco - Peppy
Ganondorf - Demise
Greninja - ?
Ice Climbers - Paper Mario? (could be a very rough analogue, akin to always being a solo Climber. Neutral B shoots a paper troopa shell instead; down-B sprays flames from a paper Fire Flower)
Ike - Hector
Jigglypuff - Clefairy
King DeDeDe - ?
Kirby - Gooey
Link - Toon Link
Little Mac - Spring Man
Lucario - ?
Lucas - Claus
Luigi - Waluigi?
Mario - Dr. Mario
Marth - Lucina
Mega Man - Proto Man / Bass
Mewtwo - ?
Mr. Game and Watch - Paper Mario? (another very rough analogue; he mostly has the rapid-transition animations thing going for him; the paint bucket from Color Splash for down-B, a Fire Flower spraying flames in place of Cook, a card that adds various element selections for Judge, and so on)
Ness - Mike (Startropics)
Olimar - Alph
Pac-Man - Mrs. Pac-Man
Palutena - Medusa
Peach - Daisy
Pikachu - Pichu
Pit - Dark Pit
Pokemon Trainer - ?
R.O.B. - ROB 64
Ridley - ?
Robin - Isaac (using Djinn summons in place of Tomes)
Rosalina - Lip?
Roy - Eliwood
Ryu - Ken
Samus - Dark Samus / SAX
Sheik - Impa
Shulk - Rex?
Snake - Sami
Sonic - Tails / Dillon
Toon Link - Tetra
Villager - Isabelle
Wario - Booster
Wii Fit Trainer - ?
Wolf - Lycanroc (Dusk Forme)
Yoshi - Birdo
Young Link - Skull Kid
Zelda - Celica
Zero Suit Samus - ?
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
I think they're close enough to occupy the same headspace-- at the very least, I could foresee eyes rolling at the idea of rolling out six different Links-- like, at some point you start getting to the Pink Gold Peach level with mining for someone to take their spot.
...
okay, how about this:
Link - Dark Link
Young Link - Skull Kid
Toon Link - Tetra
...
All right, I take your point.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
For the Star Fox characters you could include Krystal, Slippy, and Panther. It would get a little excessive with Echoes of 'Clones' but I think the idea of a toggle to switch between regular fighters and echo fighters on the character menu might have some merit at making the character select screen look less crowded. Even if they don't include Echo Fighters for everyone, there is certainly possibility for lots of them if they don't take much development time.
Cloud's echo character is easy, though it'd be a stretch - Zack has the same weapon, similar outfit, and similar techniques, though some of his limit breaks from CC involved other characters so I'm not sure if that'd translate easily.
Pokemon Trainer's echo is similarly easy - Team Rocket!
If it weren't for her lack of guns, Twintelle from ARMS could be a neat Echo fighter for Bayonetta. She also has a dodge-to-slow trick that could be implemented for a Down B, and her extending arms and giant hair fists could be used in place of WIcked Weave Smash attacks.
If it weren't for her lack of guns, Twintelle from ARMS could be a neat Echo fighter for Bayonetta. She also has a dodge-to-slow trick that could be implemented for a Down B, and her extending arms and giant hair fists could be used in place of WIcked Weave Smash attacks.
Well all know Jeanne would be Bayonetta's Echo fighter.
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It was never public
Really it just means they thought that would make it unlisted also
So, A Video to be Coming to Nintendo’s YouTube Related to Smash
Aka Geno confirmed
Makes sense, I guess. It did feel more like a Side-B than Rock Smash.
That was a fucking 10-0 matchup in Melee.
Only Pokemon Trainer, but there's no longer a penalty for focusing on one Pokemon. However it still auto-rotates when you die, so you won't always be able to swap back without taking damage.
The point, then. I missed the point.
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
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PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
I've always thought Zelgius/The Black Knight from Fire Emblem Path of Radiance would make a good inclusion, he could easily be an echo of Ike.
If there's a model of Bass in the game, he could be an echo of Mega Man (and have Mega Man replace him in the Final Smash animation).
And as a completely unlikely option, Imajin from Doki Doki Panic as an echo of Mario. He could be the token 'utterly obscure character' for the new game.
I'd love another Punch Out fighter in the game, like Bald Bull. Though I doubt they would be an echo fighter. They'd probably be more like Ganondorf and Falco, having a different moveset and properties, and similar, but different special moves.
Robin and Corrin are at least something fresh from that direction.
Most of the various Nintendo franchises that could justify a character have been included now, there is only really a handful I could see it happening.
Advance Wars: Andy or Sami would make the most sense here probably just because they have a weapon of sorts. Already has an assist trophy, but it's just vehicles, not a character.
Golden Sun: Isaac (With Matthew as an alternate skin maybe) offers multiple elements of magic as well as a weapon. Sadly already an assist trophy.
Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents: Cheer team would be fun, but this probably better suited to an assist trophy.
Custom Robo: Ray was already in previously as an assist trophy and it's rare those get upgraded to full character status so he'll probably just return as that.
The only other one that leaps to mind potentially is Sora from Kingdom Hearts. That would mostly make sense if they were doing a batch rerelease of all the previous games in the lead up to KH3, but that got ruled out until it's out for other consoles.
IIRC the leaked list that included Snake, Ridley also had a Belmont on it, which is possible.
Chrom could be an Ike echo. Aether is both Ike and Chrom's signature skill, and Chrom is bigger than Lucina physically. Maybe he could be adjusted to be a bit faster than Ike, but hit less hard.
(Actually, I had been hoping that they'd move Lucina further away from Marth by changing her Dolphin Slash to Aether, but that's not happening...)
Edit:
I think that Three Houses would have been too late in Smash's development to have someone like Edelgard added to the base roster, but I could see her coming as a DLC character. Shadows of Valentia is more in line time wise, so... maybe Celica as a Robin echo? Though she'd be best if they switched out Robin's item-breaking for Pichu's self-hurting to be like FE: Echoes' magic system. But that might make her different enough to no longer be an echo...
I'm hoping for Sami as an echo fighter for snake. I want to see that game series revived.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Though I'm curious what about Young Link makes him not an echo fighter of Toon Link.
Have we seen the Isaac assist trophy in SSBU gameplay already? I haven't watched everything so I wasn't sure what assist trophies have been confirmed. There is precedent of former assist trophies becoming playable characters later in Little Mac at least, so there could still be a chance.
I've watched a lot of footage, not everything from e3 though, and didn't see Isaac. I don't expect him to be playable (no matter how much I want him to be) but I didn't see him as an assist trophy.
Their back air, down air, and neutral air (and now maybe their f-smash) are different
A part of that is them both using Aether (the silly-looking spinny jump attack). There's also the fact that echo fighters share a skeleton, and Marth/Lucina are noticeably shorter than Chrom. I don't think it's too far-fetched.
For that matter, notice any changes at all for Lucina and Dark Pit?
edit: What if.... What if every character has an Echo Fighter? They specifically refer to Daisy as Peach's Echo Fighter, and not an Echo Fighter of Peach. The character select screen could have a toggle button for each fighter between the original character and the Echo fighter instead of having 130+ boxes on the screen. Some of the characters might be a stretch for finding an Echo Fighter for but I am sure Sakurai could do it if he wanted to.
It also means we get a Hilda skin
six mario brothers, six links, six star foxes, four captain falcons, four pikachus
Well how else are we going to get Shadow Mario, Mr. L, and Dr. Luigi?
It's a nice idea in theory, but in practice I'm not sure every character is amenable to having their moves mapped onto someone else. I tried to come up with one for every character, and a few of them, like Duck Hunt, have me stymied. Here's the list, for reference:
Bowser - Dry Bowser
Bowser Jr - Fawful
Captain Falcon - Blood Falcon / Black Shadow / Covered by Ganondorf
Cloud - ?
Corrin - ?
Duck Hunt - ?
Fox - Slippy
Diddy Kong - Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong - Funky Kong
Falco - Peppy
Ganondorf - Demise
Greninja - ?
Ice Climbers - Paper Mario? (could be a very rough analogue, akin to always being a solo Climber. Neutral B shoots a paper troopa shell instead; down-B sprays flames from a paper Fire Flower)
Ike - Hector
Jigglypuff - Clefairy
King DeDeDe - ?
Kirby - Gooey
Link - Toon Link
Little Mac - Spring Man
Lucario - ?
Lucas - Claus
Luigi - Waluigi?
Mario - Dr. Mario
Marth - Lucina
Mega Man - Proto Man / Bass
Mewtwo - ?
Mr. Game and Watch - Paper Mario? (another very rough analogue; he mostly has the rapid-transition animations thing going for him; the paint bucket from Color Splash for down-B, a Fire Flower spraying flames in place of Cook, a card that adds various element selections for Judge, and so on)
Ness - Mike (Startropics)
Olimar - Alph
Pac-Man - Mrs. Pac-Man
Palutena - Medusa
Peach - Daisy
Pikachu - Pichu
Pit - Dark Pit
Pokemon Trainer - ?
R.O.B. - ROB 64
Ridley - ?
Robin - Isaac (using Djinn summons in place of Tomes)
Rosalina - Lip?
Roy - Eliwood
Ryu - Ken
Samus - Dark Samus / SAX
Sheik - Impa
Shulk - Rex?
Snake - Sami
Sonic - Tails / Dillon
Toon Link - Tetra
Villager - Isabelle
Wario - Booster
Wii Fit Trainer - ?
Wolf - Lycanroc (Dusk Forme)
Yoshi - Birdo
Young Link - Skull Kid
Zelda - Celica
Zero Suit Samus - ?
...
okay, how about this:
Link - Dark Link
Young Link - Skull Kid
Toon Link - Tetra
...
All right, I take your point.
(Mother 3 Spoilers)
It remains to be seen if they're willing to pull echo characters from other franchises anyway.
Pokemon Trainer's echo is similarly easy - Team Rocket!
the most direct echo would be ninten
Well all know Jeanne would be Bayonetta's Echo fighter.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
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Was Bayo in the E3 demo? If so, does she still have her Jeanne colors?
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