Oh, don't get me wrong. That definitely sounds better than what we got. My issues with the Christmas Truce and its mawkish place in culture and in discourses about WW1 are exactly that: my issues.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
The Ares fight was the only thing I disliked about WW (well, other than leaving a few of the obvious thread setups with the secondary characters unfulfilled). No-man's Land was...yeah. That was an origin! I can't imagine what kind of idiot would think that needs to be pulled and we need to insert some stupid over-the-top Green-Lantern-esque CGI-fest like what we got with the Ares fight.
Ugh.
And I'll be honest. At this point, WW is the only good thing in the entire DC movie universe. Superman ruins everything he's in, and the current Batman iteration just ain't working for me. And enough said about Suicide Squad, that movie wasn't even so bad it was good, it was so bad it was terrible.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
It's a neat idea, but I have to say that I'm at a point where I don't even want to hear about the Christmas Truce again, because so often it's used in a sappy way. As if people didn't go back to slaughtering each other the next day, and the day after that, and so on for the next four years. (But then I have problems with the way WW1 is often sentimentalised anyway.)
Well, yeah, if they didn't go back to fighting, they'd have been shot for treason. The whole thing caught the officer corps offguard to begin with.
It's the only thing I could think of that would make sense to how the movie was building, though....and then we got the ending we got instead which hurt the overall movie a lot. I still think it's as good as First Avenger, don't get me wrong. I like it. It just should've been better.
Hard disagree. Captain America 1 had a solid sense of what it was, beginning to end, and was mining from a genre of cinema that I'm incredibly fond of. Wonder Woman felt derivative, like it was their attempt at the same thing, but then they felt the need to tack on that ridiculous ending. Captain America makes me smile, Wonder Woman just left me confused and hollow.
Oh god, WB/DC is going to make Gunn shoehorn in the Leto Joker, aren't they?
Both Leto's and Gyllenhaal's Joker.
Honestly, there's a goddamn Joker war going on behind the scenes at WB/DC right now. I don't think it's a coincidence we keep hearing a LOT about the Gyllenhaal Joker, even though the movie literally just started filming. Meanwhile another faction wants to put Leto every goddamn where.
Wait, what, there's a third Joker? I thought it was just Leto and Phoenix? When, and in what form, is there a Gyllenhaal Joker?
I meant Phoenix. Doy. Too many Jokers to keep up with.
Oh god, WB/DC is going to make Gunn shoehorn in the Leto Joker, aren't they?
Both Leto's and Gyllenhaal's Joker.
Honestly, there's a goddamn Joker war going on behind the scenes at WB/DC right now. I don't think it's a coincidence we keep hearing a LOT about the Gyllenhaal Joker, even though the movie literally just started filming. Meanwhile another faction wants to put Leto every goddamn where.
Wait, what, there's a third Joker? I thought it was just Leto and Phoenix? When, and in what form, is there a Gyllenhaal Joker?
I meant Phoenix. Doy. Too many Jokers to keep up with.
Spider-man has been facing the Joker the whole time in his sequel, huh.
We really are in this weird position when it comes to superhero movies. Marvel's been doing it for so long they're two movies away from basically retiring their first generation of heroes. Fox went up and down with Xmen before striking gold with Deadpool and Logan, and are now set to let Disney have their IPs back. Sony's biggest mistake was letting Marvel show how well Spiderman could be, putting anything they make on a level they can't possibly reach currently, Venom kinda proving that.
DC could be in a much better position with their movies, but they need someone to be their Kevin Feige, and Snyder is NOT that guy. Snyder is good at directing movies, what DC needs much like Marvel is an Executive Producer of the entire DCEU with a good track record, someone who's thinking a handful of steps ahead to make things work, and is really good at finding the right people to produce the right movies in their series. Snyder saying the DC movie universe shouldn't be like the MCU and be linked together just shows his ignorance, stemming from the fact that well... he really sucks at making it work. Snyder should probably stay with DC, but he should be one of the guys that is directed to put the vision on the screen... not to make the vision.
I'm also in this odd position where I'm excited about both DC and Marvel films, which I don't think I've had the pleasure of feeling until just recently. Shazam, Aquaman and Wonder Woman have me interested in DC, while I'm very interested in seeing how Marvel ends their first generation of heroes, and how they continue after. I like how we might actually get some good stiff competition for the two comics juggernauts, because competition only means more good things for us, the consumer.
The biggest issue with Snyder is that he enacted a policy for the DCEU that simply can't be repealed at this point; the time to do that was DoJ and instead snyder did what he always does when challenged on his artistic vision and that's double down on his decisions. Further, since we've had like 5 films shot in this style and tone you can't pivot anymore on the inherent issues with the setting to achieve a broader appeal without creating serious cognitive dissonance for the audience.
It's why I argue that the smartest move is to pull the plug on basically everything that they've done so far and create a new DCEU centered around characters that people have very few preconceptions of but could still credibly fill the archetypes left open by the JLU; Shazam is basically superman, Blue beetle can be your cyborg, Booster gold can be your batman as utility belt, Question could be your batman as detective, black canary can be your wonder woman, and why not have fire and ice fill out your aquaman elemental schtick?
And that's just off the top of my head for what you could do.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
They don't have the balls to not rely on Barman or Superman. And frankly, they don't have the track record to justify that kind of decision. Marvel were forced into it by financial and contractual necessity - they basically had nothing to lose and all of their good IP were sold off. The DCCU is not in that kind of position, so they'll keep flailing around instead.
They don't have the balls to not rely on Barman or Superman. And frankly, they don't have the track record to justify that kind of decision. Marvel were forced into it by financial and contractual necessity - they basically had nothing to lose and all of their good IP were sold off. The DCCU is not in that kind of position, so they'll keep flailing around instead.
Except their ineptitude has placed them in that position; even if batman wasn't a completely worn out property Affleck and Cavil have clearly shown that they're done with this shit show and while wonder woman was good, it seems that it was such in spite of the studio's vision rather then because of it's inherent quality with litterally every other property they've pushed going under 60% on the tomato meter.
They really don't have anything to lose at this point.
The biggest issue with Snyder is that he enacted a policy for the DCEU that simply can't be repealed at this point; the time to do that was DoJ and instead snyder did what he always does when challenged on his artistic vision and that's double down on his decisions. Further, since we've had like 5 films shot in this style and tone you can't pivot anymore on the inherent issues with the setting to achieve a broader appeal without creating serious cognitive dissonance for the audience.
It's why I argue that the smartest move is to pull the plug on basically everything that they've done so far and create a new DCEU centered around characters that people have very few preconceptions of but could still credibly fill the archetypes left open by the JLU; Shazam is basically superman, Blue beetle can be your cyborg, Booster gold can be your batman as utility belt, Question could be your batman as detective, black canary can be your wonder woman, and why not have fire and ice fill out your aquaman elemental schtick?
And that's just off the top of my head for what you could do.
If only there was some ridiculously comic book ass way to handwave whatever changes they wanna make
The biggest issue with Snyder is that he enacted a policy for the DCEU that simply can't be repealed at this point; the time to do that was DoJ and instead snyder did what he always does when challenged on his artistic vision and that's double down on his decisions. Further, since we've had like 5 films shot in this style and tone you can't pivot anymore on the inherent issues with the setting to achieve a broader appeal without creating serious cognitive dissonance for the audience.
It's why I argue that the smartest move is to pull the plug on basically everything that they've done so far and create a new DCEU centered around characters that people have very few preconceptions of but could still credibly fill the archetypes left open by the JLU; Shazam is basically superman, Blue beetle can be your cyborg, Booster gold can be your batman as utility belt, Question could be your batman as detective, black canary can be your wonder woman, and why not have fire and ice fill out your aquaman elemental schtick?
And that's just off the top of my head for what you could do.
If only there was some ridiculously comic book ass way to handwave whatever changes they wanna make
speedforce
Alternately:
anti life equation
Cosmic tread mill
myxlplyx
This is actually earth #984yt9384hrqieurwnfoevn0
Don’t underestimate how much motherfuckers love Batman; it’s one of the most evergreen properties there is.
A mediocre-to-decent Batman flick could come out tomorrow and people would eat it up; hell probably an openly bad one would do just fine
Listen I'm well and truly familiar with how appealing the character is to the masses, but a large part of his appeal over say... Etrigan is that one has been over exposed to an absurd degree while the other is the sort you have to do some digging to find out about.
Point is, DC needs to desperately start turning to new properties if it's going to pull itself out the sucking morass of mediocrity it's currently mired in.
Don’t underestimate how much motherfuckers love Batman; it’s one of the most evergreen properties there is.
A mediocre-to-decent Batman flick could come out tomorrow and people would eat it up; hell probably an openly bad one would do just fine
Listen I'm well and truly familiar with how appealing the character is to the masses, but a large part of his appeal over say... Etrigan is that one has been over exposed to an absurd degree while the other is the sort you have to do some digging to find out about.
Point is, DC needs to desperately start turning to new properties if it's going to pull itself out the sucking morass of mediocrity it's currently mired in.
You just got me thinking about a serious movie version of The Demon, Etrigan. It would fill that Doctor Strange niche, but with more of a grim medieval feel to it.
Don’t underestimate how much motherfuckers love Batman; it’s one of the most evergreen properties there is.
A mediocre-to-decent Batman flick could come out tomorrow and people would eat it up; hell probably an openly bad one would do just fine
Listen I'm well and truly familiar with how appealing the character is to the masses, but a large part of his appeal over say... Etrigan is that one has been over exposed to an absurd degree while the other is the sort you have to do some digging to find out about.
Point is, DC needs to desperately start turning to new properties if it's going to pull itself out the sucking morass of mediocrity it's currently mired in.
You just got me thinking about a serious movie version of The Demon, Etrigan. It would fill that Doctor Strange niche, but with more of a grim medieval feel to it.
I'm almost imagining something akin to a competently done spawn/doc strange/hulk mashup.
They really could course correct by just doing it.
If they did a new Superman who smiled (moustache or no moustache, doesn't matter so long as you pick one and stick to it), people would accept it.
Sure you'd get some complaints about continuity, but it'd mostly be on the fringes (which is where we are). Viewers are used to these things happening. Actors get replaced, characters change, and after a short period people just shrug and accept it as the new normal.
Sometimes they try to be clever about it and say that they changed because of some reason (plastic surgery, a glitch in the Matrix), other times it's just not mentioned, and so long as the content is good people are happy to ignore the elephant in the room.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
They really could course correct by just doing it.
If they did a new Superman who smiled (moustache or no moustache, doesn't matter so long as you pick one and stick to it), people would accept it.
Sure you'd get some complaints about continuity, but it'd mostly be on the fringes (which is where we are). Viewers are used to these things happening. Actors get replaced, characters change, and after a short period people just shrug and accept it as the new normal.
Sometimes they try to be clever about it and say that they changed because of some reason (plastic surgery, a glitch in the Matrix), other times it's just not mentioned, and so long as the content is good people are happy to ignore the elephant in the room.
I think you're probably right, but the DCEU does have a whole lot of grimdark baked into the setting at this point. I think the idea of using B-team characters to spin up a non-grimdark version of the DCEU and then use those guys to reintroduce the big names might be the better play. Someone here threw out Booster Gold as a suggested movie and I think that has some serious possibilities. He's got a pretty easy hero origin story to tell, future gadgets can make for fun scenes, and the fact that he's not a genius who built the tech has a lot of opportunities for humor. Plus the tech and the future knowledge would make it easy to introduce additional heroes (he just looked up their future Wiki entries, has a superhero detector-o-matic, or something).
Switch him up a bit if you want. Instead of a glory hound they could have him be a random dude who grabbed a sports almanac and just wants to live large off of the winnings. Whatever. The key things are that he's got an easy story to tell, an entertaining powerset, and a personality that lends itself to humor.
daveNYC on
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Huh, I read some of the start of the Smith script and it's not as madness inducing as I thought. It starts off introducing Brainiac and setting up his motivation and powers, then it goes to Lex and exposition dumping his dislike of Superman, though it uses an interview format for that so it's not horribly derpy. There's bits I'd change or tone down (the aliens explode into goo, some of the Brainiac dialogue is a bit too awkward), but it was definitely reading better than BvS.
The cyberspider scene is a bit much though. Never go full matryoshka.
Things like a Kevin Smith Superman or a Tarantino Star Trek intrigue me because worst case they'd at least be interesting train wrecks. Abrams stuff just isn't that interesting to me. It wouldn't have the garbage fire potential, but it'd likely be less compelling (for good or ill).
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Sometimes when I see horrible movies that get made or read terrible scripts I feel disappointed in myself for not being a wealthy and successful film writer and/or director.
Because apparently it requires no talent or effort.
I think an interesting angle would be a big budget Batman, Superman etc. animated movie (I’m aware of Mask of the Phantasm and the rest). People could instantly remove themselves from the last few films and you wouldn’t even have to try to explain why it’s a different series of events.
It’d be scary for them I’m sure, but The Incredibles, Megamind and that one with the yellow things have done well.
They should make a Flash movie, then have the plot be able how every movie since Man of Steel has actually been a timeline resulting from the Flashpoint, and he has to fix it and put everything back to normal.
Keep the same characters and have them find a dimension where they don't kill people, and Batman doesn't even brand criminals!
Naturally they have to invade and take over.
Don’t even reboot, just have Clark turn off the branding scene on the huge bat-monitor and turn to Bruce.
“These are terrible! Who funds these things?”
“It’s no coincidence Lex Corps. snapped up that film company. Let’s go have a chat with Luther.”
I'm not sure that the general audience would buy it, but I think it's an awesome take that the terrible movies are mostly propoganda by LutherCorp. Though it would be hard to justify them making Lex look like a raging dickhead in BvS.
But it'd easily explain why the new Batman and Superman don't look like the previous ones. Cause the previous ones were just 'actors'.
Posts
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Ugh.
And I'll be honest. At this point, WW is the only good thing in the entire DC movie universe. Superman ruins everything he's in, and the current Batman iteration just ain't working for me. And enough said about Suicide Squad, that movie wasn't even so bad it was good, it was so bad it was terrible.
Hard disagree. Captain America 1 had a solid sense of what it was, beginning to end, and was mining from a genre of cinema that I'm incredibly fond of. Wonder Woman felt derivative, like it was their attempt at the same thing, but then they felt the need to tack on that ridiculous ending. Captain America makes me smile, Wonder Woman just left me confused and hollow.
I meant Phoenix. Doy. Too many Jokers to keep up with.
Spider-man has been facing the Joker the whole time in his sequel, huh.
Not bad so far, reminds me of the CW 'verse, except maybe a bit darker in tone.
If I watch this show I'd like to be able to actually see it.
Do they ever stand in normally lit rooms?
DC could be in a much better position with their movies, but they need someone to be their Kevin Feige, and Snyder is NOT that guy. Snyder is good at directing movies, what DC needs much like Marvel is an Executive Producer of the entire DCEU with a good track record, someone who's thinking a handful of steps ahead to make things work, and is really good at finding the right people to produce the right movies in their series. Snyder saying the DC movie universe shouldn't be like the MCU and be linked together just shows his ignorance, stemming from the fact that well... he really sucks at making it work. Snyder should probably stay with DC, but he should be one of the guys that is directed to put the vision on the screen... not to make the vision.
I'm also in this odd position where I'm excited about both DC and Marvel films, which I don't think I've had the pleasure of feeling until just recently. Shazam, Aquaman and Wonder Woman have me interested in DC, while I'm very interested in seeing how Marvel ends their first generation of heroes, and how they continue after. I like how we might actually get some good stiff competition for the two comics juggernauts, because competition only means more good things for us, the consumer.
Yeah, he's 100% out.
Though it's looking like instead of solving the problem, it's creating entirely new problems.
It's why I argue that the smartest move is to pull the plug on basically everything that they've done so far and create a new DCEU centered around characters that people have very few preconceptions of but could still credibly fill the archetypes left open by the JLU; Shazam is basically superman, Blue beetle can be your cyborg, Booster gold can be your batman as utility belt, Question could be your batman as detective, black canary can be your wonder woman, and why not have fire and ice fill out your aquaman elemental schtick?
And that's just off the top of my head for what you could do.
Except their ineptitude has placed them in that position; even if batman wasn't a completely worn out property Affleck and Cavil have clearly shown that they're done with this shit show and while wonder woman was good, it seems that it was such in spite of the studio's vision rather then because of it's inherent quality with litterally every other property they've pushed going under 60% on the tomato meter.
They really don't have anything to lose at this point.
Of course they probably figured they did poorly not because they were terrible, but because they weren't SuperBat.
If only there was some ridiculously comic book ass way to handwave whatever changes they wanna make
Alternately:
Cosmic tread mill
myxlplyx
This is actually earth #984yt9384hrqieurwnfoevn0
But no seriously the solution to this is:
A mediocre-to-decent Batman flick could come out tomorrow and people would eat it up; hell probably an openly bad one would do just fine
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Listen I'm well and truly familiar with how appealing the character is to the masses, but a large part of his appeal over say... Etrigan is that one has been over exposed to an absurd degree while the other is the sort you have to do some digging to find out about.
Point is, DC needs to desperately start turning to new properties if it's going to pull itself out the sucking morass of mediocrity it's currently mired in.
Travel Back in time and get 1990s Paul Dini to reboot your movie shared universe franchise
Angie Harmon as Zatanna uWu :heartbeat:
(edit: my bad I thought you were saying have it start in the 90's with Dini, not just bring him to the present, but the casting still stands!)
Also invest in any company that sells fishnets. There's about to be a run on them.
You just got me thinking about a serious movie version of The Demon, Etrigan. It would fill that Doctor Strange niche, but with more of a grim medieval feel to it.
I'm almost imagining something akin to a competently done spawn/doc strange/hulk mashup.
If they did a new Superman who smiled (moustache or no moustache, doesn't matter so long as you pick one and stick to it), people would accept it.
Sure you'd get some complaints about continuity, but it'd mostly be on the fringes (which is where we are). Viewers are used to these things happening. Actors get replaced, characters change, and after a short period people just shrug and accept it as the new normal.
Sometimes they try to be clever about it and say that they changed because of some reason (plastic surgery, a glitch in the Matrix), other times it's just not mentioned, and so long as the content is good people are happy to ignore the elephant in the room.
I think you're probably right, but the DCEU does have a whole lot of grimdark baked into the setting at this point. I think the idea of using B-team characters to spin up a non-grimdark version of the DCEU and then use those guys to reintroduce the big names might be the better play. Someone here threw out Booster Gold as a suggested movie and I think that has some serious possibilities. He's got a pretty easy hero origin story to tell, future gadgets can make for fun scenes, and the fact that he's not a genius who built the tech has a lot of opportunities for humor. Plus the tech and the future knowledge would make it easy to introduce additional heroes (he just looked up their future Wiki entries, has a superhero detector-o-matic, or something).
Switch him up a bit if you want. Instead of a glory hound they could have him be a random dude who grabbed a sports almanac and just wants to live large off of the winnings. Whatever. The key things are that he's got an easy story to tell, an entertaining powerset, and a personality that lends itself to humor.
of sunlight, striking Superman.
The THANAGARIAN SNARE BEAST has grown. It resembles something of a
cross between a squid and a spider, but very bio-mechanical and
sleek. And now -- inhabited by Brainiac's consciousness -- it's
extra lethal as well. Brainiac's voice is heard, hissing from
somewhere within the creature.
BRAINIAC
SSSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUPERRRRRMAAAAAANNN!
It batters the Man of Steel, then moves quickly back into the
darkness. Superman's a bit dazed.
LOIS
Are you alright?!
SUPERMAN
I'm... I'm okay...
(squints up)
I just wish I could see what I'm fighting.
Then, the beast drops on Superman anew, its massive legs tearing
at him. Superman struggles free, bolting toward the shaft of light
to strengthen his powers, but the creature grabs hold of him,
pulling the Man of Steel back into the darkness.
Suddenly, the creature's underbelly opens, setting loose six
smaller, metallic versions of itself. Superman breaks free of the
beast and begins fighting the creatures off, smashing them
together, crushing them in his grip. We hear LOIS'S SHRIEK.
Superman reacts.
The micro-beasts crawl all over Lois. Superman uses his heat
vision to blast the CREATURES, which EXPLODE, hissing. Using his
powers leaves Superman a little dazed.
But the TSB is on him again -- its mid-section spreading to reveal
a primeval head. The BEAST brings Superman to its jaws while
letting loose an ungodly SCREECH. The pair violently tussle, the
beast's head and legs rising and striking, Superman blocking and
attacking. A leg shoots from the darkness and catches Superman by
the throat, pinning him against the web. The beast's jaws come in
close to Superman's face, preparing to gorge.
We see the strain on Superman's face, the veins in his neck and
head throbbing.
Then we see why -- Superman uses all of his strength to stretch
his fist into the just-out-of-reach shaft of light. He makes it,
charging himself.
The jaws of the creature almost on his head, Superman comes across
with a right hook that knocks the creature into the air.
Superman crawls into the sunlight, takes in as much as he can, and
leaps up at the beast, grabbing hold of the wildly flailing
creature. He flies it up and...
Skimming through the script, haven't found the polar bear scene yet.
Reading that script sounds more damaging to your mind than the Necronomicon.
JJ Abrams, IIRC where Luther is a CIA agent?
https://www.supermanhomepage.com/movies/Superman-JJAbrams2.pdf
Kevin Smith's infamous script:
http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/superman-lives-script.html
The cyberspider scene is a bit much though. Never go full matryoshka.
Things like a Kevin Smith Superman or a Tarantino Star Trek intrigue me because worst case they'd at least be interesting train wrecks. Abrams stuff just isn't that interesting to me. It wouldn't have the garbage fire potential, but it'd likely be less compelling (for good or ill).
Because apparently it requires no talent or effort.
It’d be scary for them I’m sure, but The Incredibles, Megamind and that one with the yellow things have done well.
Naturally they have to invade and take over.
“These are terrible! Who funds these things?”
“It’s no coincidence Lex Corps. snapped up that film company. Let’s go have a chat with Luther.”
I'm not sure that the general audience would buy it, but I think it's an awesome take that the terrible movies are mostly propoganda by LutherCorp. Though it would be hard to justify them making Lex look like a raging dickhead in BvS.
But it'd easily explain why the new Batman and Superman don't look like the previous ones. Cause the previous ones were just 'actors'.