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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    There is basically no good way this could have gone

    Either Gunn gets by with no consequences for some truly heinous shit he said and Disney is okay with that, or we get the mess we are in now

    It sucks and is a clusterfuck

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    At some point we are going to have to figure out, as a society, how we are going to deal with people making online statements years ago which they may entirely regret, disagree with vehemently and consider the height of stupidity but are still there, inescapable and unerasable.

    I've said things as reprehensible as what Gunn did in those tweets myself when I was younger and more loathsome, I imagine a lot of us have, in person or maybe online somewhere. Does that mean that if you once said that, you are due to be castigated for it forever? If he says "I'm sorry, I should never have said those things, they were stupid things, I hate that I said them," does that mean he can continue doing what he does, or is that not enough?

    Solar on
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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Yeah I don't really think he should have been fired

    Edit based only on the headlines, I need to go see what he actually said I guess

    Kwoaru on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited July 2018
    I would say that the most piercing statement here is "but Johnny Depp hit his wife and you still work with him"

    Tube on
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    There are no real analogues to the Roseanne situation. I don't think Disney's decision was wrong, and I don't think Gunn does either. This is a sad situation, and I'm sure he's trying to be better, but sometimes decisions have consequences. Gunn will do just fine outside of the confines of the GOTG franchise.

    I mean, he probably has enough money to never need to work again, if that's what it comes down to, but I'm not sure about this statement. Do the people who think that his firing was deserved, think he should be able to find filmmaking work elsewhere? Because I'm kind of having trouble squaring 'yes, his known statements made back then are valid grounds for firing' and 'he can just go find work elsewhere, even though the statements continue to exist in the same form as they did when he was rightly fired from Disney?'

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Oh I didn't realize the campaign to get Gunn fired was run by Mike Cernovich.

    Yeah, no, he should not have been fired. You can't give into people like that.

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
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    GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    christ almighty the current media/political landscape is hell

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Mike Cernovich believes date rape doesn't exist. Do not embolden this man.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    Yes

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    Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Cats is just... so bad.

    how did it run for so long??

    It has had way more legs than a musical by Andrew Lloyd Webber, based on a poem by T. S. Elliot, had any right to.

    I mean, cats have lots of legs, and there's probably a lot of cats in something called Cats

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    XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    For the record

    Here are some of the tweets:
    “I like when little boys touch me in my silly place.”


    “The best thing about being raped is when you’re done being raped and it’s like ‘whew this feels great, not being raped!' "

    Feeding the Gamergate mob is horrific and terrible but those are fucking horrid and he said them as a 45+ year old man and I don't think not having any consequences for them is a good thing either

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    Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    "Broken clock" is a generous, almost disturbingly accepting way to refer to Mike Cernovich.

    A man who is a currently practicing monster rather than a past shitlord.

    Johnny Chopsocky on
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    Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I think people need to be allowed to grow and improve themselves as people

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    Yes

    That makes me very uncomfortable to be honest. It makes me feel like we are moving towards a world in which cultural forgiveness in impossible.

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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I don't think Gunn's career is over by a long shot.

    I also aren't too surprised that Disney, of all companies, would not want to be associate with someone that's made pedophilia jokes and now the entire world knows about them.

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    The impression I'm seeing on twitter is that these tweets/offensive comments had their hubbub six years ago, around when gunn was announced for GotG (and apologized for them). and Disney (effectively) said they were cool with it.

    Now the alt-right brings them forward and he's fired. Whether the tweets are worth being fired over or not, this isn't a good look for Disney.

    Psykoma on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Isn't circa 2008 right around when a ton of shock garbage humor like Tosh.O was popular?

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I think people need to be allowed to grow and improve themselves as people
    They do, and I do believe Gunn has, but should that be a free pass? Its impossibly murky to decide when someone had grown "enough" to warrant no consequences or whether or not they are putting on a front

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Couscous wrote: »
    Isn't circa 2008 right around when a ton of shock garbage humor like Tosh.O was popular?

    Yep. I'm as guilty of it as anyone.

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    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    Yes

    Never? That's a bit hardline. Someone should never work again because they made awful jokes a decade ago that they have apologized for and realized were bad?

    Are we a one strike society on (yes, very) bad taste?

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    The wealthy white man who used to make rape jokes has been mildly inconvenienced. He will have a 90-day rest period out of the limelight and then will sell a show to HBO or something

    The situation is messy and sucks in a lot of other ways, but what is happening to Gunn himself is the absolute mildest form of censure possible. He will be totally fine. Giving him a hall pass because he doesn't like 45 isn't a solution to any problem.

    Poorochondriac on
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    Yes

    That makes me very uncomfortable to be honest. It makes me feel like we are moving towards a world in which cultural forgiveness in impossible.

    Why does anybody need to be forgiven by "the culture"

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    I was a transphobic shitbag in 2008 tbh.

    People can improve, and the impression is that Gunn has.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I think his age has less to do with it than social climate, honestly

    It was a very different place ten years ago and that isn't to say those jokes were cool and good, but ten years ago maybe I wouldn't have looked at those jokes the way I do today

    Like if Gunn is a garbage person who should be shunned forever because of those jokes, then honestly so am I

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    BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I think people need to be allowed to grow and improve themselves as people

    And this is a big thing. We have built a pretty strong cultural expectation around punishment and retribution in the US and a lot less around rehabilitation and growth. It's not about "how do we fix what caused the problem," it's "How do we punish those that did wrong." And if I continue typing it's gonna be a big, long, off-topic journey into the US penal system and Michael Vick and yada yada, but this is seriously a thing.

    Maybe there were consequences. Maybe Gunn missed out on a bunch of directing jobs for five years after making those tweets. We don't know, but he got some consequences today.

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    I care less about gunn being fired and more that, hey doing this works, let's keep doing it.

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    Yes

    Never? That's a bit hardline. Someone should never work again because they made awful jokes a decade ago that they have apologized for and realized were bad?

    Are we a one strike society on (yes, very) bad taste?

    The way I've always felt it was framed best any time a white dude in Hollywood gets fired from something is "I'm all for rehabilitating dudes in Hollywood as soon as all the women, queer folks, and people of color (especially intersections of the above) who have been passed over in favor of a mediocre or problematic white dude" get their next shot."

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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    I think the lesson here is @Tube needs to destroy these forums in about 5 years when most of us are running things.

    Like really wipe it from the face of the earth forever.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    The wealthy white man who used to make rape jokes has been mildly inconvenienced. He will have a 90-day rest period out of the limelight and then will sell a show to HBO or something

    The situation is messy and sucks in a lot of other ways, but what is happening to Gunn himself is the absolute mildest form of censure possible. He will be totally fine. Giving him a hall pass because he doesn't like 45 isn't a solution to any problem.

    i don't really care about gunn either way because he's a millionaire but he apologized for this 6 years ago and disney knew about it then.

    and then they gave in to an extreme right wing hate mob run by some of the worst people on this earth. i don't think it can be had both ways.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    Yes

    Never? That's a bit hardline. Someone should never work again because they made awful jokes a decade ago that they have apologized for and realized were bad?

    Are we a one strike society on (yes, very) bad taste?

    There are plenty of talented people to take his spot, he will retire after decades in the business a millionare

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Yeah, the potential splash damage here is quite frightening.

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    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    Yes

    Never? That's a bit hardline. Someone should never work again because they made awful jokes a decade ago that they have apologized for and realized were bad?

    Are we a one strike society on (yes, very) bad taste?

    The way I've always felt it was framed best any time a white dude in Hollywood gets fired from something is "I'm all for rehabilitating dudes in Hollywood as soon as all the women, queer folks, and people of color (especially intersections of the above) who have been passed over in favor of a mediocre or problematic white dude" get their next shot."

    I totally agree, actually. I don't like the situation because I certainly don't want to come out and champion Gunn, because hey, his awful jokes are his mess, but I also think there are degrees of this stuff.

    And at the end of the day, it's not about what he wrote. It's about the attention. If Disney cared about the severity of the action, they wouldn't continue working with a wife beater, but that didn't get much attention. So...

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    AtomicTofu wrote: »
    According to Fox News, they were posted because Gunn is an outspoken critic of President Donald Trump and the effort was to knock him down a few pegs.

    Just lovely.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a broken clock being right twice a day

    Do you feel he should never get work again Tal?

    The wealthy white man who used to make rape jokes has been mildly inconvenienced. He will have a 90-day rest period out of the limelight and then will sell a show to HBO or something

    The situation is messy and sucks in a lot of other ways, but what is happening to Gunn himself is the absolute mildest form of censure possible. He will be totally fine. Giving him a hall pass because he doesn't like 45 isn't a solution to any problem.

    Im not concerned about Gunn. Im concerned about a culture that it feels to me is growing to reject growth and rehabilitation*. Im less concerned with Gunn then I am with the people getting their start or on shakier ground who can't bounce back.

    *Although I guess the argument could be made that we've always felt this way about rehabilitation and its just now spreading to the famous.

    nightmarenny on
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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    I can already tell that the dialogue around this will be especially exhausting, because it's a case where it's very easy to hold different opinions about it simultaneously, and The Discourse isn't big on liminal positions

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I believe in growth amd rehabilitation, and gunn can go do that privately with people he knows

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This discussion has been closed.