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[Sysadmin] Improper Wireshark use has restarted the editor wars.

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Posts

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Yeah I'm mostly doing a throwback to the time that dude told me mysql is less secure than mssql because it's open source and clearly I don't care about security.

    I mean he's kinda right but for all the wrong reasons and I don't think he realized it.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    FeralThawmus
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    The chauvinism some people have against open-source is puzzling.

    I get it if you're worried about the legal ramifications of incorporating GPL/copyleft code into production.

    But that has nothing to do with its technical merits

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    bowenDrovekThawmusSeidkonaa5ehren
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    His defense was "anyone can look at the source code and hack it"

    yeah well imagine microsoft doing what they did in the late 90s pretending a major hack wasn't a thing and leaving systems unprotected, at least with open source it'll be patched within the week, if not day.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    His defense was "anyone can look at the source code and hack it"

    yeah well imagine microsoft doing what they did in the late 90s pretending a major hack wasn't a thing and leaving systems unprotected, at least with open source it'll be patched within the week, if not day.

    he's a moron and a scoundrel

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    bowenThawmusEchoSeidkonaDonovan Puppyfucker
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    I wish I could post the picture here but in our office we got 2 55" TV's on mobile stands in for meeting rooms in that we set up today. so naturally we grabbed pictures of two IT staffers who are not here today, put their pictures on the TV's and put the TV's at their desks in place of their chairs. And have left them there most of the day.

    It's been quite entertaining.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    ShadowfireMugsleyFeralThawmusSeidkona
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    bowen wrote: »
    His defense was "anyone can look at the source code and hack it"

    Because hacking without access to the source code never happens.

    bowenFeralSeidkonathatassemblyguyLD50Naphtali
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    The chauvinism some people have against open-source is puzzling.

    I get it if you're worried about the legal ramifications of incorporating GPL/copyleft code into production.

    But that has nothing to do with its technical merits

    When I was interviewing a few months back for that sweet gig I turned down, this was the attitude they had during my interview when I talked about experimenting with open source solutions, and was a small contributing factor to my decision.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
    FeralSeidkona
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Straw poll:

    Those of you who use Windows print servers, how do you name your printer queues?

    I like to do XXX - Department - Model where XXX is a location code, like

    NYC - Sales - Xerox 6655
    SEA - HR - Canon C3525

    I have a senior IT person who is agitating that these are too long and wants to do something like

    NYCSLS
    SEAHR

    I think he's nuts and we should summarily ignore his request, but I wouldn't mind a sanity check

    BRANCH-###

    Any extra details go into location/comments

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    The chauvinism some people have against open-source is puzzling.

    I get it if you're worried about the legal ramifications of incorporating GPL/copyleft code into production.

    But that has nothing to do with its technical merits

    When I was interviewing a few months back for that sweet gig I turned down, this was the attitude they had during my interview when I talked about experimenting with open source solutions, and was a small contributing factor to my decision.

    Now that our CIO is back from medical leave I'll talk to him about open-sourcing a couple of our non-business-related Go packages we've developed internally. Since we use so much open source from all over the place I'd like to contribute back.

    ThawmusFeralTL DR
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    The chauvinism some people have against open-source is puzzling.

    I get it if you're worried about the legal ramifications of incorporating GPL/copyleft code into production.

    But that has nothing to do with its technical merits

    When I was interviewing a few months back for that sweet gig I turned down, this was the attitude they had during my interview when I talked about experimenting with open source solutions, and was a small contributing factor to my decision.

    Now that our CIO is back from medical leave I'll talk to him about open-sourcing a couple of our non-business-related Go packages we've developed internally. Since we use so much open source from all over the place I'd like to contribute back.

    But then you'll get hacked.

    ThawmusFeralCogEchoMvrck
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    wunderbar wrote: »
    I wish I could post the picture here but in our office we got 2 55" TV's on mobile stands in for meeting rooms in that we set up today. so naturally we grabbed pictures of two IT staffers who are not here today, put their pictures on the TV's and put the TV's at their desks in place of their chairs. And have left them there most of the day.

    It's been quite entertaining.

    When the Christmas decorations got taken down, they left the tree for some reason, so someone took an extra work-branded jacket and put it on the tree, and printed out a guest name badge for 'Spruce Willis'. We set it up at an unused desk, and it's still there currently. Someone recently added a pair of googly eyes.

    I keep pushing for a service account to be set up for Spruce so we can assign tickets to him.

    TamerBillwunderbarAiouathatassemblyguyLaOsDonovan PuppyfuckerMugsleyEchoTL DRShadowfireInfidelAustinP0027MvrckAntoshka
  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    I kinda want to buy a big pack of various sized googly eyes and surreptitiously start sticking them on random things all over the office.

    thatassemblyguyThawmus
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Whew I had an interview yesterday for a job, my first real job in tech thats not sales and it did not go well at all. Like man, I'm in grad school and worked with networks and computers my whole life but the questions they asked made me feel hella dumb

    Thawmus
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Cog wrote: »
    I kinda want to buy a big pack of various sized googly eyes and surreptitiously start sticking them on random things all over the office.

    You should. Googly eyes are an essential part of all office supplies collections.

    LD50 on
    ThawmusEchoDrovekMvrck
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Whew I had an interview yesterday for a job, my first real job in tech thats not sales and it did not go well at all. Like man, I'm in grad school and worked with networks and computers my whole life but the questions they asked made me feel hella dumb

    That's sometimes the point, is to see how you react when you're out of your depth.

    Everyone in this industry is floundering at some point or another. For me it's often every fucking second of every fucking day.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
    BucketmanFeralschuss
  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    yea man, IT is half about googling error codes and putting random shit into powershell/bash/whatever until it works.

    there are systems I manage every single day that I have no idea at all how they actually work.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    BucketmanFeralRandomHajileDrovek
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    IT is knowing exactly what to google and how to apply the knowledge.

    This is a skill very few people have, and would make them much better at their jobs regardless. Don't undersell how important being able to research and apply knowledge is. Just because we use google today instead of encyclopedias, research documents, and reference manuals doesn't make it any less important to be able to do.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    BigityBucketmanSeidkonaCogDrovekMvrck
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Had to explain to someone today, in 2019, a grown man with a college degree from what I assume was a college for folks with a normal range of vision, that no - he cannot open PDF files from the Excel application.

    Bigity on
    BucketmanThawmusbowen
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    I wish I had thought of that. I tried to think of a right answer but ultimately I went with "I know I've worked with this before but I can't think of that off the top of my head"

    Hindsight being 20/20 I should have said "I would need to Google that or look it up"

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    Had to explain to someone today, in 2019, a grown man with a college degree from what I assume was a college for folks with a normal range of vision, that no - he cannot open PDF files from the Excel application.

    I'm not convinced that some of my users have enough brain activity to breathe unassisted.

    ThawmusBigitywunderbar
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    Had to explain to someone today, in 2019, a grown man with a college degree from what I assume was a college for folks with a normal range of vision, that no - he cannot open PDF files from the Excel application.

    Given all the other ridiculous crap they've crammed into excel I'm almost surprised it doesn't do that.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    ThawmusInquisitor77wunderbarMvrckAntoshka
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    When I interviewed for my MSP job they gave me a basic troubleshooting test. Basically he broke a server VM and told me to fix it. I asked if I could look something up on Google and they were fine with it. Evidently a lot of people who interview with the company don't think to even try Google.

    steam_sig.png
    BucketmanThawmuswunderbar
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Yeah I felt a little suckerpucnhed by it. It was for a security job and I got all the stuff about my home lab and what sort of security experience I have and network work and set up, then they asked me some really basic IT stuff that I haven't thought about since I had a class on it like years ago. Questions like "What port does Ping use" and "Whats the difference between TCP and UDP". All I could do was stall and stare like a deer in headlights.

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Yeah I felt a little suckerpucnhed by it. It was for a security job and I got all the stuff about my home lab and what sort of security experience I have and network work and set up, then they asked me some really basic IT stuff that I haven't thought about since I had a class on it like years ago. Questions like "What port does Ping use" and "Whats the difference between TCP and UDP". All I could do was stall and stare like a deer in headlights.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that even an interview that you know you blew 100% may not have actually been blown at all.

    I've had amazing offers over the years after completely blowing interviews.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
    LaOsBucketmanbowenschussMvrck
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Yeah I felt a little suckerpucnhed by it. It was for a security job and I got all the stuff about my home lab and what sort of security experience I have and network work and set up, then they asked me some really basic IT stuff that I haven't thought about since I had a class on it like years ago. Questions like "What port does Ping use" and "Whats the difference between TCP and UDP". All I could do was stall and stare like a deer in headlights.

    What port ICMP uses is one of my favorite gotchas. It doesn't use ports. I like to make a UDP joke for the next question but you might not get it.

    steam_sig.png
    Thawmus
  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Questions like "What port does Ping use"

    I consider this a useless fucking question, because it doesn't matter just about ever if you know this off the top of your head or not. Also it's a trick question because ICMP traffic doesn't have ports, so fuck those guys for asking that anyway. But if you really need to know a port number for any given kind of traffic, that information is a 5 second google search away.
    Bucketman wrote: »
    and "Whats the difference between TCP and UDP". All I could do was stall and stare like a deer in headlights.

    I consider this a useful question because it's more about concept and theory than route memorization of numbers or which check box to click when you see <error message>. I'd rather someone not need to stop and learn networking concepts like TCP and UDP traffic on the job, but it's not a dealbreaker by any means.

    I'm on the fence on if I think these sort of quizzes are really any use in interviews, overall. I mean.. we once had a guy answer the question "What's a PST?" with "Pacific Standard Time." Did he freeze up and shit himself, or was he a functional idiot? Don't know!

    Cog on
    a5ehrenFeralThawmusbowenRandomHajileDrovek
  • BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    Seriously, who doesn't know "Please Send Tell"?

    EchoFeldorn
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    I kinda want to buy a big pack of various sized googly eyes and surreptitiously start sticking them on random things all over the office.

    I actually do this

    No really

    I especially like putting googly eyes on our corporate art

    I'd show you but then you'd know where I work

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    ThawmusTL DRBucketmanwunderbar
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    When I'm interviewing somebody, I deliberately ask increasingly difficult technical questions until I get to something they don't know, specifically because I want to see how they handle it.

    I try to be nice about it. I want people to be comfortable. I'm not going to ask stupid trick questions like "what port is ICMP?"

    But yeah I want somebody to say "oh, I don't know, I've never needed that. Hmm. I guess I'd figure it out by looking in firewall logs or I'd just ask Google." If they can tell me that with a straight face, without bullshitting me, without contrition, that's a huge plus.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    Thawmuswunderbar
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    BSoB wrote: »
    Seriously, who doesn't know "Please Send Tell"?

    I don't?

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    BSoB wrote: »
    Seriously, who doesn't know "Please Send Tell"?

    I don't?

    It's an EverQuest/WoW thing

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    ThawmusBucketmanBSoBCogMvrck
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    An example of a good 'trick' interview question I encountered recently was "A domain controller died a couple months ago - how would you go about restoring it?"

    The answer of course is to not restore it and instead to spin up a new DC.

    BucketmanFeral
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Bucketman wrote: »
    Yeah I felt a little suckerpucnhed by it. It was for a security job and I got all the stuff about my home lab and what sort of security experience I have and network work and set up, then they asked me some really basic IT stuff that I haven't thought about since I had a class on it like years ago. Questions like "What port does Ping use" and "Whats the difference between TCP and UDP". All I could do was stall and stare like a deer in headlights.

    What port ICMP uses is one of my favorite gotchas. It doesn't use ports. I like to make a UDP joke for the next question but you might not get it.

    Oh yeah, I know that now. And now I'll never forget that about ICMP or that TCP numbers packets and can recall them to avoid packet loss where as UDP is faster and has more throughput but it uses datagrams and data loss is more probable.

    I will remember these things to my grave

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Fuck trick questions in interviews. Your interviewee is all tee'd up to try and answer your questions clearly and honestly, and you should be, too.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
    SeidkonaBucketmanCogShadowfireschuss
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    When I'm interviewing somebody, I deliberately ask increasingly difficult technical questions until I get to something they don't know, specifically because I want to see how they handle it.

    I try to be nice about it. I want people to be comfortable. I'm not going to ask stupid trick questions like "what port is ICMP?"

    But yeah I want somebody to say "oh, I don't know, I've never needed that. Hmm. I guess I'd figure it out by looking in firewall logs or I'd just ask Google." If they can tell me that with a straight face, without bullshitting me, without contrition, that's a huge plus.

    Yeah thinking back on it I think this is where I messed up. At once point my interviewer said "Its nothing to get worked up over" and I didn't think I was getting worked up, but I just said "No I know, its just frustrating because I know I know this, I've worked with this before, but I can't think of it off the top of my head right now"

    It would have been better if I just said "Ya know, I'm not sure, I'd have to look that up"

    Well live and learn, this is my first interview for a position like this where I was asked questions like that. Up till now its been the usual "tell me about a time you did the thing?"

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    See that's why the trick questions are dumb. Even when you fail it, it didn't tell them anything meaningful, and they were prompted to try and let you off the hook. I'm willing to bet real money your response to those questions doesn't have any actual impact on whether they call you again or what they say.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
    Bucketman
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    BSoB wrote: »
    Seriously, who doesn't know "Please Send Tell"?

    Pure Shit Time


    That is what pst files are.

    LD50
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    TL DR wrote: »
    An example of a good 'trick' interview question I encountered recently was "A domain controller died a couple months ago - how would you go about restoring it?"

    The answer of course is to not restore it and instead to spin up a new DC.

    *nods*

    Seems legit

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    bowen
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    See that's why the trick questions are dumb. Even when you fail it, it didn't tell them anything meaningful, and they were prompted to try and let you off the hook. I'm willing to bet real money your response to those questions doesn't have any actual impact on whether they call you again or what they say.

    Trick questions are worse than dumb. Even people who know the answers are affected negatively by them: They don't know if this person actually knows that this is a trick question. If they spout off the correct answer, they might make themselves look like a know-it-all asshole "well acktshually..."

    ThawmusBucketmanbowen
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    If you prime your question with a particular solution you are setting the interviewee up to fail. They might triage to or consider a better solution in the wild but because you are specifically asking them to solve the problem a particular way and the purpose of the interview is for them to make you happy, they will likely bend over backwards to do things your way. For all they know you are intentionally giving them an impossible task to "see how they think". And nobody wants to be "that guy", per above.

    Some trick questions are fine but a lot of them are designed to make the interviewer feel superior rather than to determine the skillset or fit of the applicant.

    ThawmusbowenCog
This discussion has been closed.