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[NBA] Thread: Zion Already Injured, Because We Don't Deserve Nice Things

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Posts

  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    the warriors would be fun in a league that wasn't so deterministic.

    in the nba, the better teams usually win. need some hearthstone up in this.

    Or at least a blue turtle shell.

  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I'm just going to turn into the spin at this point.

    HEY SATAN! HERE'S MY WISHLIST! GO NUTS YOU DEVIL!

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/1JI9WWSRW1YJI
  • NiryaNirya Registered User regular
    Spurs have apparently asked the Lakers for Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, 2 first round picks, and 2 pick swaps in exchange for Leonard.

    I’m sure that ask is going to work out well for them.

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    3DS: 2981-5304-3227
  • XehalusXehalus lofi Registered User regular
    if they drop Kuzma and 1 of each type of pick then I'd do it

    MarathonTrajan45
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    i mean, if you don't ask you certainly won't get it

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    I mean I don’t think any of those except Ingram are particularly good so why not ask

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
    Maximum
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I mean, it’s a big ask but it’s also just where negotiations will start. Spurs either get some of that this year for Kuaui or they get nothing for him after next season and he leaves anyway.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    I mean I don’t think any of those except Ingram are particularly good so why not ask

    I don't even think Ingram is that good.

    He'll be a good player in the league, but if he was going to be a superstar we'd have seen it by now. Every current superstar in the league showed their future potential by their second season.

    Trajan45
  • XehalusXehalus lofi Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    Xehalus wrote: »

    I guess he wasn’t THAT good friends with Tyler ulis

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • XehalusXehalus lofi Registered User regular
    Trae Young is taking a lot of bad shots but then he does something amazing a few plays later so I should have some patience perhaps

  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Thanks for the explanation on cap smoothing, guys. On one hand, I can't fault the players for getting money when its available, on the other hand looking a bit into the future and have more players get money would have been good as well.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Xehalus wrote: »

    Jesus that’s so much money for a dude who probably is bad and people think is good because they get to compare him to the rest of that roster.

  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    Xehalus wrote: »

    Jesus that’s so much money for a dude who probably is bad and people think is good because they get to compare him to the rest of that roster.

    "Look, see? We HAVE money! We can give it to someone, ANYone! It could be you! Just come here!"

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  • Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
  • Randy ButternubbsRandy Butternubbs Registered User regular
    I love the absolute chaos of the Lakers deals. Lance, JaVale, and Rondo is peak crazy and it's great.

    Also the Lakers need to learn the lesson of NY and not give up assets this year for Leonard, or at least nothing they're not trying to move out of the way for him to fit better. Unloading resources to get a guy who has told the entire world he's signing with you next year is absolute insanity to me.

    KelorMarathonjkylefulton
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I love the absolute chaos of the Lakers deals. Lance, JaVale, and Rondo is peak crazy and it's great.

    Also the Lakers need to learn the lesson of NY and not give up assets this year for Leonard, or at least nothing they're not trying to move out of the way for him to fit better. Unloading resources to get a guy who has told the entire world he's signing with you next year is absolute insanity to me.

    They might as well try and do the best they can this season with their eye towards next year. Give their young guys one more year to develop, either into good teammates or trade assets.

    Wait a year and then hope that the salary situation in Golden State becomes impossible and they have to start shedding key players.

  • Karrde1842Karrde1842 Registered User regular
    I love the absolute chaos of the Lakers deals. Lance, JaVale, and Rondo is peak crazy and it's great.

    Also the Lakers need to learn the lesson of NY and not give up assets this year for Leonard, or at least nothing they're not trying to move out of the way for him to fit better. Unloading resources to get a guy who has told the entire world he's signing with you next year is absolute insanity to me.

    Didn't Paul George say the same thing last year though? And he is not a Laker next season. So it might make sense to try and get the guy they want.

    IlpalaButtersKnight_Dhalphir
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Karrde1842 wrote: »
    I love the absolute chaos of the Lakers deals. Lance, JaVale, and Rondo is peak crazy and it's great.

    Also the Lakers need to learn the lesson of NY and not give up assets this year for Leonard, or at least nothing they're not trying to move out of the way for him to fit better. Unloading resources to get a guy who has told the entire world he's signing with you next year is absolute insanity to me.

    Didn't Paul George say the same thing last year though? And he is not a Laker next season. So it might make sense to try and get the guy they want.

    Yeah if there's a reasonable deal between the moon SA is asking for now and a sandwich they should make the move. It takes a while tweak a system for new players even ultra talented ones like Kawhi and a lot could happen in a year.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters
  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Goose! wrote: »
    Two very funny things came out from today:

    1. Lakers believe Lonzo's camp leaked knee injury to deter trade

    That’s what i said!!

    Lonzo stinks anyway though

    y2jake215 on
    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    I am still not entirely clear what happened in SA, that Kawhi wants out of there so badly. SA is usually THE model franchise in the league, everyone wants to emulate that. So having a San Antonio star player this disgruntled is weird.

  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I am still not entirely clear what happened in SA, that Kawhi wants out of there so badly. SA is usually THE model franchise in the league, everyone wants to emulate that. So having a San Antonio star player this disgruntled is weird.



    ...obviously

    Raijin QuickfootDhalphir
  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    I mean I don’t think any of those except Ingram are particularly good so why not ask

    I don't even think Ingram is that good.

    He'll be a good player in the league, but if he was going to be a superstar we'd have seen it by now. Every current superstar in the league showed their future potential by their second season.

    Oladipo? Lowry?

  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Maximum wrote: »
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I am still not entirely clear what happened in SA, that Kawhi wants out of there so badly. SA is usually THE model franchise in the league, everyone wants to emulate that. So having a San Antonio star player this disgruntled is weird.



    ...obviously

    Oh my God. Could that possibly be true?

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Maximum wrote: »
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I am still not entirely clear what happened in SA, that Kawhi wants out of there so badly. SA is usually THE model franchise in the league, everyone wants to emulate that. So having a San Antonio star player this disgruntled is weird.



    ...obviously

    Man if he hates Gregg he'll really hate Lebron who also thinks Trump sucks dick.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell CharlottesvilleRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Maximum wrote: »
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I am still not entirely clear what happened in SA, that Kawhi wants out of there so badly. SA is usually THE model franchise in the league, everyone wants to emulate that. So having a San Antonio star player this disgruntled is weird.



    ...obviously

    Man if he hates Gregg he'll really hate Lebron who also thinks Trump sucks dick.

    that Twitter account is a really bad troll.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
    MidniteTheBlackWindXehalusNiryaMagellCaptain InertiaButters
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Maximum wrote: »
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    I am still not entirely clear what happened in SA, that Kawhi wants out of there so badly. SA is usually THE model franchise in the league, everyone wants to emulate that. So having a San Antonio star player this disgruntled is weird.



    ...obviously

    Man if he hates Gregg he'll really hate Lebron who also thinks Trump sucks dick.

    that Twitter account is a really bad troll.

    I swear I've heard Kawaii has an uncle that is a trump supporter that was poisoning him to the spurs.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Kawhi

    Teach your phones, people

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Kawaii Leonard-chan

    BahamutZERO.gif
    RingoThe Cow King
  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    Just when I thought Stephen A. couldn't possibly be any worse.

  • Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    That's as much Stephen A. as I could bare to listen to

    davidsdurions
  • XehalusXehalus lofi Registered User regular
    I love that none of his younger coworkers or anyone in general has corrected him

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Xehalus wrote: »
    I love that none of his younger coworkers or anyone in general has corrected him

    would you talk to stephen a smith about anything if you could avoid it?

    aeNqQM9.jpg
    MarathonPreacherSweeney TomMagellCaptain InertiaDouglasDanger
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    burbo wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    I mean I don’t think any of those except Ingram are particularly good so why not ask

    I don't even think Ingram is that good.

    He'll be a good player in the league, but if he was going to be a superstar we'd have seen it by now. Every current superstar in the league showed their future potential by their second season.

    Oladipo? Lowry?

    Oladipo had a better rookie and sophomore season than Ingram, by quite a bit. Lowry is a bit hard to judge since minutes were so low in the rookie year, but his sophomore was better than either of Ingram's seasons.

    Also, would not really call either of those two a superstar.

    Dhalphir on
  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    Kawaii Leonard-chan

    No. No he doesn't get that name anymore.

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  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    I mean I don’t think any of those except Ingram are particularly good so why not ask

    I don't even think Ingram is that good.

    He'll be a good player in the league, but if he was going to be a superstar we'd have seen it by now. Every current superstar in the league showed their future potential by their second season.

    Oladipo? Lowry?

    Oladipo had a better rookie and sophomore season than Ingram, by quite a bit. Lowry is a bit hard to judge since minutes were so low in the rookie year, but his sophomore was better than either of Ingram's seasons.

    Also, would not really call either of those two a superstar.

    I wasn't really watching those guys then, but statistically, Ingram is clearly better than year 2 Lowry, and Lowry was playing 25 MPG, so i'ts not like 12th man duty. He's also better than Oladipo in year 2, statistically.

    Sure, maybe not "Superstars" but the're players you'd like to have. I'm not saying Ingram will be great, just quibbling with your level of certainty about how good he can be.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    burbo wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    I mean I don’t think any of those except Ingram are particularly good so why not ask

    I don't even think Ingram is that good.

    He'll be a good player in the league, but if he was going to be a superstar we'd have seen it by now. Every current superstar in the league showed their future potential by their second season.

    Oladipo? Lowry?

    Oladipo had a better rookie and sophomore season than Ingram, by quite a bit. Lowry is a bit hard to judge since minutes were so low in the rookie year, but his sophomore was better than either of Ingram's seasons.

    Also, would not really call either of those two a superstar.

    I wasn't really watching those guys then, but statistically, Ingram is clearly better than year 2 Lowry, and Lowry was playing 25 MPG, so i'ts not like 12th man duty. He's also better than Oladipo in year 2, statistically.

    Sure, maybe not "Superstars" but the're players you'd like to have. I'm not saying Ingram will be great, just quibbling with your level of certainty about how good he can be.

    How are you measuring that? Because box score is not useful for that purpose. They are different players in different situations so comparing their REB/AST/PTS numbers is pretty pointless.

    Across the board, Ingram has worse stats than year 1/2 of Oladipo and year 2 of Lowry in defensive win shares, offensive win shares, overall WS, PER, VORP, +/-, TS%. Lots of those stats are flawed by themselves but when you look at everything together they are perfectly useful.

    Dhalphir on
  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    I mean I don’t think any of those except Ingram are particularly good so why not ask

    I don't even think Ingram is that good.

    He'll be a good player in the league, but if he was going to be a superstar we'd have seen it by now. Every current superstar in the league showed their future potential by their second season.

    Oladipo? Lowry?

    Oladipo had a better rookie and sophomore season than Ingram, by quite a bit. Lowry is a bit hard to judge since minutes were so low in the rookie year, but his sophomore was better than either of Ingram's seasons.

    Also, would not really call either of those two a superstar.

    I wasn't really watching those guys then, but statistically, Ingram is clearly better than year 2 Lowry, and Lowry was playing 25 MPG, so i'ts not like 12th man duty. He's also better than Oladipo in year 2, statistically.

    Sure, maybe not "Superstars" but the're players you'd like to have. I'm not saying Ingram will be great, just quibbling with your level of certainty about how good he can be.

    How are you measuring that? Because box score is not useful for that purpose. They are different players in different situations so comparing their REB/AST/PTS numbers is pretty pointless.

    Across the board, Ingram has worse stats than year 1/2 of Oladipo and year 2 of Lowry in defensive win shares, offensive win shares, overall WS, PER, VORP, +/-, TS%. Lots of those stats are flawed by themselves but when you look at everything together they are perfectly useful.

    Sure, box scores are misleading, of course. I'm not really trying to devolve this into a debate about who is better based on stats. I don't know man, and I reall don't care. My only point is that no one was considering that Oladipo and Lowry would be All-NBA players, in year 2, and they both became that, over time.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    burbo wrote: »
    Sure, box scores are misleading, of course. I'm not really trying to devolve this into a debate about who is better based on stats. I don't know man, and I reall don't care. My only point is that no one was considering that Oladipo and Lowry would be All-NBA players, in year 2, and they both became that, over time.

    Right, and they both started much stronger than Ingram, which is exactly my point.

    When someone has potential, you can usually see it in their early seasons even if they then fail to live up to it. I've looked at quite a lot of our current superstars, and none of them started their careers with PERs of 8.5 and 13.8 (league average is 15). None of them started their careers with two straight years of negative +/-. They all contributed at league average or better, immediately, while Ingram has not even hit average yet.

    Take a look at someone like Kemba, who is the definition of "very good player who is not a superstar", and even he came into the league with league average PER in his first season, a positive +/- by year 2, double the winshares in Year 2 as Ingram's Year 2, and a higher TS% despite higher volume. While playing on a much worse team, to boot.

    D'Angelo Russell had two better years than Ingram and yet everyone seems to have collectively written him off as a non-starter while remaining high on Ingram.

    Dhalphir on
  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    Sure, box scores are misleading, of course. I'm not really trying to devolve this into a debate about who is better based on stats. I don't know man, and I reall don't care. My only point is that no one was considering that Oladipo and Lowry would be All-NBA players, in year 2, and they both became that, over time.

    Right, and they both started much stronger than Ingram, which is exactly my point.

    When someone has potential, you can usually see it in their early seasons even if they then fail to live up to it. I've looked at quite a lot of our current superstars, and none of them started their careers with PERs of 8.5 and 13.8 (league average is 15). None of them started their careers with two straight years of negative +/-. They all contributed at league average or better, immediately, while Ingram has not even hit average yet.

    Take a look at someone like Kemba, who is the definition of "very good player who is not a superstar", and even he came into the league with league average PER in his first season, a positive +/- by year 2, double the winshares in Year 2 as Ingram's Year 2, and a higher TS% despite higher volume. While playing on a much worse team, to boot.

    D'Angelo Russell had two better years than Ingram and yet everyone seems to have collectively written him off as a non-starter while remaining high on Ingram.

    I don't know how to look up historic advanced stats, so I'll take your word on it. I agree that Ingram is unlikely to be a "superstar", probably even unlikely to be all-NBA. Based on your arguments, I feel he like he is more unlikely to become that then when this discussion started. My only quibble is your level of uncertainty, but clearly you have and are willing to do more research on the subject, so I will defer.

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