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Ants! Ants! Ant-Man! (and the Wasp) July 6th...mostly.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    rhylith wrote: »
    Stinger
    Y’all should stop watching the stingers if you don’t want to see a tease of the next marvel film. It’ll either be a mostly forgettable one-off gag or a tie-in. I honestly don’t know what you were expecting.

    Besides this leaves room for Laurence Fishburne and Cassie to save Scott at the start of Avengers 4
    That scene is more than a tie-in.

    They literally just screwed every main character because they could. Whatever writer wrote that should be canned, it's a narrative disgrace.

    You can get a tie-in by having Scott return from a job and the guy driving gets dusted. This is just ridiculous.

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    rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    Also this movie is very funny. Not quite Ragnarok funny, but funny.

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    rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    Stinger
    Y’all should stop watching the stingers if you don’t want to see a tease of the next marvel film. It’ll either be a mostly forgettable one-off gag or a tie-in. I honestly don’t know what you were expecting.

    Besides this leaves room for Laurence Fishburne and Cassie to save Scott at the start of Avengers 4
    That scene is more than a tie-in.

    They literally just screwed every main character because they could. Whatever writer wrote that should be canned, it's a narrative disgrace.

    You can get a tie-in by having Scott return from a job and the guy driving gets dusted. This is just ridiculous.
    Yeah because they're totally not going to un-screw it in avengers 4. Come on.

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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    I really liked the Ghost design here. I'm not hugely familiar with the character outside of this movie, but that was a really cool looking design.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    rhylith wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    rhylith wrote: »
    Stinger
    Y’all should stop watching the stingers if you don’t want to see a tease of the next marvel film. It’ll either be a mostly forgettable one-off gag or a tie-in. I honestly don’t know what you were expecting.

    Besides this leaves room for Laurence Fishburne and Cassie to save Scott at the start of Avengers 4
    That scene is more than a tie-in.

    They literally just screwed every main character because they could. Whatever writer wrote that should be canned, it's a narrative disgrace.

    You can get a tie-in by having Scott return from a job and the guy driving gets dusted. This is just ridiculous.
    Yeah because they're totally not going to un-screw it in avengers 4. Come on.
    You can't excuse this by saying "well the next movie will deus ex machina it away". That's bullshit.

    "Nobody ever stays dead" is one of the main problems with narratives in comics. And you're arguing that that somehow justifies this scene. That it's okay to wave a hand and kill everyone because the next chapter you'll wave your other hand and bring them all back to life. It's terrible writing.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Everyone in my theater liked the stinger it I go by reactions.

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    LegacyLegacy Stuck Somewhere In Cyberspace The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Expanded reaction on ending scenes now that I'm home, because apparently I hit quote and not edit and didn't notice.
    First off, congrats, you just decided the correct ending was to trap dad in the quantum realm and kill everyone who could rescue him. For what? What fucking narrative purpose did that diablos ex machina serve?
    Second, you completely ignored the rules you set for that. Because it clearly takes 5-10 seconds to happen. Fury was able to get around the car, rummage in it, and hit a panic button before it ran out. You telling me none of those three could throw the switch in time?

    I really liked the movie, but that ending scene was bullshit and ruins the experience for no reason.

    The entire fucking conflict of the movie is dad staying out of trouble so he can reunite with his family, and to reunite the Pym family. And they even manage to save Ghost. Except then some idiot decides the ending scene should take the last two hours, undo it, and then make everyone worse off than before, just because they have to have a Thanos tie in. No, fuck that. There are a million ways to do that without fucking ruining the entire conclusion you spent two hours reaching.
    It doesn't undo the whole movie. You're being a bit dramatic about everything.

    For one, Fury was able to do something about it because he dusted a few seconds after someone else around him did. The team on the roof had no idea what was about to happen and obviously dusted at the same time.

    Two, there's still Ghost and Morpheus around (probably) waiting for healing particles, so someone could be able to save Scott.

    Third, did you not hear Janet telling Scott to watch out for the time vortexes? He can easily get himself out through those and maybe fix everything himself that way.

    It doesn't ruin the ending. It gives you a linking continuation of a shared story that will be concluding in a few months, thankfully.

    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Infinity wars is less a “in comics nobody ever stays dead scenerio” and more a “star trek episode where its clear halfway through that the ending will be a reset because they started killing people left and right”.

    Im mostly staying out of this debate because it is the least fun but comparing IW to a comics cliche has been driving the pedant in me crazy.

    Also I realize that comic books do pull te second thing sometimes too.

    nightmarenny on
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Actually sorry I gotta do one more thing just to make sure both sides absolutely hate me.

    It really sucks that the side who liked IW keeps describing the the side that didnt as over-reacting or over-emotional. Cant we all agree that whether we share those emotions or not what we felt in response to that film was valid?

    Quire.jpg
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    LegacyLegacy Stuck Somewhere In Cyberspace The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2018
    It really sucks that the side who liked IW keeps describing the the side that didnt as over-reacting or over-emotional. Cant we all agree that whether we share those emotions or not what we felt in response to that film was valid?

    I'm not saying the whole side of people who didn't like IW are overreaching or overemotional. Just his post, littered with fbombs and calling things bullshit, is a bit overdramatic.

    Legacy on
    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Legacy wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Expanded reaction on ending scenes now that I'm home, because apparently I hit quote and not edit and didn't notice.
    First off, congrats, you just decided the correct ending was to trap dad in the quantum realm and kill everyone who could rescue him. For what? What fucking narrative purpose did that diablos ex machina serve?
    Second, you completely ignored the rules you set for that. Because it clearly takes 5-10 seconds to happen. Fury was able to get around the car, rummage in it, and hit a panic button before it ran out. You telling me none of those three could throw the switch in time?

    I really liked the movie, but that ending scene was bullshit and ruins the experience for no reason.

    The entire fucking conflict of the movie is dad staying out of trouble so he can reunite with his family, and to reunite the Pym family. And they even manage to save Ghost. Except then some idiot decides the ending scene should take the last two hours, undo it, and then make everyone worse off than before, just because they have to have a Thanos tie in. No, fuck that. There are a million ways to do that without fucking ruining the entire conclusion you spent two hours reaching.
    It doesn't undo the whole movie. You're being a bit dramatic about everything.

    For one, Fury was able to do something about it because he dusted a few seconds after someone else around him did. The team on the roof had no idea what was about to happen and obviously dusted at the same time.

    Two, there's still Ghost and Morpheus around (probably) waiting for healing particles, so someone could be able to save Scott.

    Third, did you not hear Janet telling Scott to watch out for the time vortexes? He can easily get himself out through those and maybe fix everything himself that way.

    It doesn't ruin the ending. It gives you a linking continuation of a shared story that will be concluding in a few months, thankfully.
    One, pretty much everyone who got dusted had time to react. It wasn't exactly a fast process. Hank was counting down to throwing the switch when it happened. By IW's depictions he had plenty of time to throw it. Hell, he could have finished the countdown, said "By the way, something odd's going on", thrown the switch, and still had time to look at Janet before vanishing.

    Two, that would require them to know where the meeting was happening.

    Three, she pretty much said "touch that and you're gone, poof, forever". Not an out, just a one-off "this is the end for you".

    The movie is incapable of standing on its own because of that ending scene. Yes, it completely wrecks the narrative of the movie. Please stop acting like this is remotely similar to basically any other credits scene they've done. It's not. The vast majority of them are either "Meanwhile..." things or comic bits (Captian America on patience remains excellent). The scene takes resolved conflicts that were a major plot point in the movie and then unresolves those exact conflicts. That's terrible writing.

    Polaritie on
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Legacy wrote: »
    It really sucks that the side who liked IW keeps describing the the side that didnt as over-reacting or over-emotional. Cant we all agree that whether we share those emotions or not what we felt in response to that film was valid?

    I'm not saying the whole side of people who didn't like IW are overreaching or overemotional. Just his post, littered with fbombs and calling things bullshit, is a bit overdramatic.

    It has however been a pattern that everytime someone who didnt like it expresses how they feel someone pops up to tell them there feelings arnt valid. The movie made them really angry.

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Stinger
    I'd heard enough from people being bad at talking around spoilers that I knew it would be the snap, but I thought they managed to do it without bringing the rest of the movie down too much - I was afraid it would be scott seeing Hope or Janet watching hank dust as opposed to "whoops smash cut to bad stuff happened"

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Stinger
    I'd heard enough from people being bad at talking around spoilers that I knew it would be the snap, but I thought they managed to do it without bringing the rest of the movie down too much - I was afraid it would be scott seeing Hope or Janet watching hank dust as opposed to "whoops smash cut to bad stuff happened"
    I don't think you could have shown the snap affecting any of the main characters and had it work. It's antithetical to the narrative arc of the rest of the movie.

    The needs of the plot outweigh the needs of the metaplot, basically.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Saw this!

    Liked it a lot! It was very low stakes compared to the MCU at large, even compared to the first film and that worked well. Every piece of the main cast was great, with Rudd and Lilly working very well as proper co-leads.

    The comedy pretty much all landed for me, and the size changing action sequences were AMAZING.

    BlankZoe on
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    It also really solidified how much I love Scott Lang

    He is tied with Cap for my favorite MCU hero. He's not a chosen one or a super soldier or a genius billionaire. He's a single dad who got thrown into a crazy world and tries his best to help people while also supporting his family and it is so goddamn compelling.

    CYpGAPn.png
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    Sir PlatypusSir Platypus Registered User regular
    I know so many people are going to go in depth about the stinger, but I'd just like to state my very simple thoughts on it.
    I felt like this movie was too happy and fun to have that as the midpoint stinger. I was fine leaving Infinity War feeling the loss, but for some reason it just feels too tonally off for what is essentially the films ending. The movie is wacky and fun and then we cut back into how dark the world is. Had there been a fun little thing there, and then the dust scene after credits, I think I'd feel a bit better.

    And for the record I am still annoyed that The First Avenger ended in present day, rather than with the kid with the trash can lid. I'm picky about placements of the stinger scenes.

    Definitely enjoyed the film more than expected though. I will probably see it again soon, so I can watch it without the worst most horrible laughing person in the world sitting a few seats down. Good lord, a bad laugh in a theater kills humor for me.

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    I just got back from this! I really really liked it!

    I really love what they do with scale in their action scenes, and there are some very good jokes that are only really possible in this movie. I also appreciated their restraint as far as not just repeating jokes from the first Ant-Man over and over. The cast is really good, and Cassie is excellent. They've done great work in making her feel like a real kid.

    Regarding the credits scene:
    I thought that escalated so far that it came around to being kind of darkly comedic? Like, that's a comically absurd cliffhanger.

    Also probably helps that I'm under no illusion that they're killing those three off for good.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I'm a little bummed that Ghost was
    In it to just save herself, given Ghost is one of the most working stiff criminals in the MCU and I liked that about him. LOVE the movie ends with the good guys saving the "villain" and getting the other bad guys arrested. That's the kind of superhero shit I like.

    I can't get angry about the post-credits scene because we've known since T'Challa got dusted (Followed by the Guardians and Spider-Man, who has a new movie out next year, that it's being undone.) So I know that Hope, Janet and Hank aren't permanently dead. That's even ignoring how familiar I am with the original Infinity Gauntlet storyline. 1/2 of everyone dying wasn't the end; it was very nearly the precipitating moment that lead to the event as a whole. I'm super glad we didn't have to watch Scott see everyone dust in front of him though. That would have been hard to watch.

    I am annoyed that Hope got dusted, as I wanted to see her kick ass in A4 but now she's tied up in the snap so that'll have to get undone before she can show up. That's a fucking bummer.

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    Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Re: the post-credits scene
    I'm wondering if the Quantum Realm is going to be where ashed populace wound up.

    Which has to be a bummer for Janet, going back so soon, but hey time for Van Dyne to shine if that's the case.

    Johnny Chopsocky on
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Oh yeah, almost forgot
    Egghead cameo!

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I'm a little bummed that Ghost was
    In it to just save herself, given Ghost is one of the most working stiff criminals in the MCU and I liked that about him. LOVE the movie ends with the good guys saving the "villain" and getting the other bad guys arrested. That's the kind of superhero shit I like.

    I can't get angry about the post-credits scene because we've known since T'Challa got dusted (Followed by the Guardians and Spider-Man, who has a new movie out next year, that it's being undone.) So I know that Hope, Janet and Hank aren't permanently dead. That's even ignoring how familiar I am with the original Infinity Gauntlet storyline. 1/2 of everyone dying wasn't the end; it was very nearly the precipitating moment that lead to the event as a whole. I'm super glad we didn't have to watch Scott see everyone dust in front of him though. That would have been hard to watch.

    I am annoyed that Hope got dusted, as I wanted to see her kick ass in A4 but now she's tied up in the snap so that'll have to get undone before she can show up. That's a fucking bummer.
    Potential A4 spoilers
    Sebastian Stan confirmed he filmed scenes with a bunch of actors and all of the ones he mentioned, including Douglas and Pfieffer, were folks who got dusted so I wouldn't be surprised if the folks what got dusted have something to do in the movie other than just sit around and be dead.

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    JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I'm a little bummed that Ghost was
    In it to just save herself, given Ghost is one of the most working stiff criminals in the MCU and I liked that about him. LOVE the movie ends with the good guys saving the "villain" and getting the other bad guys arrested. That's the kind of superhero shit I like.

    I can't get angry about the post-credits scene because we've known since T'Challa got dusted (Followed by the Guardians and Spider-Man, who has a new movie out next year, that it's being undone.) So I know that Hope, Janet and Hank aren't permanently dead. That's even ignoring how familiar I am with the original Infinity Gauntlet storyline. 1/2 of everyone dying wasn't the end; it was very nearly the precipitating moment that lead to the event as a whole. I'm super glad we didn't have to watch Scott see everyone dust in front of him though. That would have been hard to watch.

    I am annoyed that Hope got dusted, as I wanted to see her kick ass in A4 but now she's tied up in the snap so that'll have to get undone before she can show up. That's a fucking bummer.
    Potential A4 spoilers
    Sebastian Stan confirmed he filmed scenes with a bunch of actors and all of the ones he mentioned, including Douglas and Pfieffer, were folks who got dusted so I wouldn't be surprised if the folks what got dusted have something to do in the movie other than just sit around and be dead.
    I imagine they come back after when teh dusting is undone, and then there will be one big final battle with Thanos vs every hero. My annoyance is that means she likely won't show up until at least 1/2-way through the movie, if not later.

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    ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I'm a little bummed that Ghost was
    In it to just save herself, given Ghost is one of the most working stiff criminals in the MCU and I liked that about him. LOVE the movie ends with the good guys saving the "villain" and getting the other bad guys arrested. That's the kind of superhero shit I like.

    I can't get angry about the post-credits scene because we've known since T'Challa got dusted (Followed by the Guardians and Spider-Man, who has a new movie out next year, that it's being undone.) So I know that Hope, Janet and Hank aren't permanently dead. That's even ignoring how familiar I am with the original Infinity Gauntlet storyline. 1/2 of everyone dying wasn't the end; it was very nearly the precipitating moment that lead to the event as a whole. I'm super glad we didn't have to watch Scott see everyone dust in front of him though. That would have been hard to watch.

    I am annoyed that Hope got dusted, as I wanted to see her kick ass in A4 but now she's tied up in the snap so that'll have to get undone before she can show up. That's a fucking bummer.
    Potential A4 spoilers
    Sebastian Stan confirmed he filmed scenes with a bunch of actors and all of the ones he mentioned, including Douglas and Pfieffer, were folks who got dusted so I wouldn't be surprised if the folks what got dusted have something to do in the movie other than just sit around and be dead.
    I imagine they come back after when teh dusting is undone, and then there will be one big final battle with Thanos vs every hero. My annoyance is that means she likely won't show up until at least 1/2-way through the movie, if not later.

    If it makes you feel better she'll probably get a half second of screen time? I mean as crowded as IW was A4 is going to be nuuuuuts.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I dunno it’s way less crowded if you think about it

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    ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I dunno it’s way less crowded if you think about it

    Well in the first part sure.
    I was really referring to any parts the Wasp would be in.

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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    Really liked it. The end credits:
    when the movie ended I looked at my wife and she rolled her eyes HARD. I asked what was wrong.

    "You CANT not talk about everyone being dead!! I couldn't stop thinking about it! I need to know what happened to everyone when Thanos snapped!" I laughed and said that A4 is next year and she kinda laughed too.

    Then the post credits happened.

    A guy on the other side of her said "that was your fault" and we laughed.

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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Regarding the stinger and A4
    The mention of "time vortex" seems really overt, so I'm guessing that plays a role in A4.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Regarding the stinger and A4
    The mention of "time vortex" seems really overt, so I'm guessing that plays a role in A4.
    Stinger for Captain Marvel has Ant-Man appearing in the 90's and just being like, "Look guys, you probably aren't going to believe this but..."

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    If any man shows up in captain marvel I’m going to shit

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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    If any man shows up in captain marvel I’m going to shit

    I mean, one probably will. Just statistically speaking.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    If any man shows up in captain marvel I’m going to shit

    Nobody tell tube about fury or coulson

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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    If any man shows up in captain marvel I’m going to shit

    Nobody tell tube about fury or coulson

    Somebody might want to get him some spare pants though.
    Just trying to think ahead here.

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    Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Regarding the stinger and A4
    The mention of "time vortex" seems really overt, so I'm guessing that plays a role in A4.
    Stinger for Captain Marvel has Ant-Man appearing in the 90's and just being like, "Look guys, you probably aren't going to believe this but..."

    Thinking about this some more, what can he actually say?
    say Ant Man goes back in time. Which he will, clearly. You don't mention time vortex like that for no reason. What does he actually know? He probably knows about the donut in NY, even if not discussed in this post credits scene. And he knows that the three people he was with vanished. Like, that's it. And anything could have happened to them. He can't deliver any specific warnings other than "on this date, aliens come back and then suddenly something happens later that day"

    Oh brilliant
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Regarding the stinger and A4
    The mention of "time vortex" seems really overt, so I'm guessing that plays a role in A4.
    Stinger for Captain Marvel has Ant-Man appearing in the 90's and just being like, "Look guys, you probably aren't going to believe this but..."

    Thinking about this some more, what can he actually say?
    say Ant Man goes back in time. Which he will, clearly. You don't mention time vortex like that for no reason. What does he actually know? He probably knows about the donut in NY, even if not discussed in this post credits scene. And he knows that the three people he was with vanished. Like, that's it. And anything could have happened to them. He can't deliver any specific warnings other than "on this date, aliens come back and then suddenly something happens later that day"
    Unless the sub-quantum time vortex takes him into the future where he learns what happened and then uses the quantum tunnel tech to go back in time and do some stuff with Marvel.

    Maybe he finds Dr Strange (or some kind of time ghost of his) hanging out in the sub quantum realm having manipulated the time vortex to bring Ant Man to the right place at the right time? Dr. Strange passes along the "Here's how to save everything" information and shows him how to manipulate the time vortex to get back to the correct time. Ant Man overshoots and winds up with Marvel and Fury (Just like Strange knew he would all along).

    I don't think either of those would make it to the top ten of "Most Comic Book Moments" for the MCU.

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    Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
    Just got back from this, it was... fine? I guess? I didn't hate it, but I feel like it could have been a much better movie than what we got.
    The whole thing just felt rushed, and a lot of the tension in it felt needlessly manufactured.

    Scott having to do Ant-Man stuff without being spotted by the FBI's the biggest one for me; it's a good hook, but the execution was just... I mean, they find the suit without Scott in it, but they know that Scott's the last guy who used the Ant-Man suit, and that's not enough for them to take Scott in or extend his house arrest? It's weird. That's weird.

    That, plus the super arbitrary timer they were on to find Janet in the quantum realm, Scott giving Luis perfect directions to the Pym building (the iOffice?) just in time for Birch to show up, and Eva's/Foster's willingness to risk killing Janet just didn't work for me.

    As far as Ghost goes, she could've used a lot more time to breathe in this; hopefully we'll get more of her and Foster down the line.

    Birch was... bad. Walton Goggins is good, and he did the best he could, but Birch is basically a cardboard cutout of a secondary antagonist.

    And regarding the mid-credit stinger...
    Double tagged for safety, don't click if you're planning on seeing the movie.
    Scott getting trapped in the Quantum Realm is a really good cliffhanger, even if they're going to un-fuck it up at the very start of Infinity War. Sorry, Scott.

    Also; if you didn't think they would reference Infinity War at the end of the movie immediately following Infinity War, there is nothing I can do to help you. Though the entire Pym/Van Dyne clan getting Dusted was pretty vicious, not gonna lie.

    [IMG][/img]
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    Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    y'know a weird detail I had trouble keeping track of was
    how many Ant Man suits are there? There has been 3 different designs for the movies, but the dialogue sorta suggested only two suits - the one Scott used in Germany, and the one Hank gives him in this movie. They needed the older one for it's unique regulator or whatever, but in the context of the dialogue the older one is the one shown in Civil War.

    so was that Civil War suit the original one, upgraded? I had always assumed it was some new thing they'd built for Scott, incorporating more modern stuff like the touchscreen and all that.

    Oh brilliant
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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    y'know a weird detail I had trouble keeping track of was
    how many Ant Man suits are there? There has been 3 different designs for the movies, but the dialogue sorta suggested only two suits - the one Scott used in Germany, and the one Hank gives him in this movie. They needed the older one for it's unique regulator or whatever, but in the context of the dialogue the older one is the one shown in Civil War.

    so was that Civil War suit the original one, upgraded? I had always assumed it was some new thing they'd built for Scott, incorporating more modern stuff like the touchscreen and all that.

    I'm assuming
    The first suit was gutted when ever Pym upgraded it for Scott in Civil War.

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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    This movie was a ton of fun

    And then the
    stinger takes nearly all the fun out of it

    UnbreakableVow on
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